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[Formula One & motorsport] Round 8, France: Cry me a Riviera

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Posts

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    So what I managed to see of the race was interesting!

    Some brilliant racing and terrible driving from the backfield. Perez was all round awful - taking out his team mate and the 'looked like it was deliberate' collision with Sirotkin. I expect him to get points on his license for that. Sirotkin equally as bad from very blatant blocking moves. Magnussen didn't seem to know or care where track limits were. In fact that applied to half the backfield, just Magnussen stood out a bit more for it. The whole of the backfield were terrible at moving out of the way for the leaders - even when the track layout was accounted for they were pushing it beyond what's ok. Leclerc and Gasly both raced incredibly well and put the rest of their peers to shame. Sainz also had a good, if anonymous, race (second in the T2 competition!). Somehow Alonso came in a comfortable P7 and even put in a fastest lap at one point?!

    At the front, Hamilton seemed entirely in control. I rate this as one of his best tracks really. Back in his McLaren days he was really strong around Singapore. Still a massive result given how it was expected to be a Ferrari stranglehold. They weren't even close in the end. Hamilton had a pitstop, maybe two, in hand over Vettel at the end and looked like he could probably have gone quicker if he wanted. Any time Verstappen got close (e.g. due to traffic) he opened the gap out to 5 seconds or so within a handful of laps.

    Verstappen had a great race, and probably the best he could have got out of the car. Didn't really see much of the start so can't say more than that.

    Vettel continues to crack under pressure. Mentally he just didn't seem to recover from Qualifying. If he wants to beat Hamilton he has to pull something special out in the last few races because as it stands this season is going to read very much like he threw away a championship despite having the generally better car.

    As for the number two drivers, none of them really looked good today. Bottas ended 50 seconds behind Hamilton in the same car and couldn't put any pressure on Vettel. Despite his complaints about Hulkenberg, he clearly couldn't catch him. Hulkenberg was pulling ahead! Kimi was close but never really looked to threaten. Don't really know why Danny Ric was behind them, but Verstappen looked better today.

    Jazz
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Regarding backmarkers
    I think the backmarkers did the correct thing by ignoring the blue flags when in a heated battle. It makes races more entertaining and a lot more organic, and in the end they had zero impact on the race.

    Sirotkin probably should have moved over for Perez and everyone else because he was a lot slower, but I don't blame him for not doing so. Perez was being an idiot trying to get by Sirotkin, which was funny to watch right after Leclerc set up Gasly beautifully for a pass.

    As for Botas complaining about Hulkenberg, what the fuck was that about? He was sitting like 2 seconds back and never seemed to gain on Hulkenberg. You gotta look like you can actually go around the backmarker for them to make it easy. From my POV, it seemed like Hulkenberg was just held up by Sirotkin like everyone else, and then was able to match Botas' pace once he got by.

    Veevee on
    davidsdurions
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Dreadful race. Tire care on full display, which is a biproduct of the brutal aero. Ground effects when??

    At one point Kimi was .4 from bottas and washed out nearly a full second in two corners.

    That's what bottas was on about re: Hulk

    It's just not a good track for these cars

    The championship is pretty much over now barring mechanical

    All that's left to hope for is one last Kimi win

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  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Review of this race:
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Not looking good for Vettel. Championship is gone barring some sort of disaster for Hamilton.

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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    there is now murmuring about Alonso being blackballed out of Indy due to Honda's close relationship with IRL

    if that happens... lollllllllll

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  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    @Jazz is F2017 the good one? It's on a good sale atm on chrono.gg

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    TeeMan wrote: »
    Jazz is F2017 the good one? It's on a good sale atm on chrono.gg

    One of the good ones, yes. It's only beaten by 2018, but it's still pretty great.

    TeeManDrovek
  • CormacCormac Registered User regular
    Antonio Giovinazzi will be driving with Kimi at Sauber next year. Ericcson has been made the team's third driver. https://www.bbc.com/sport/motorsport/45642410

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  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Good as place as any to share this news. Dirt Rally 2.0 coming February 2019:

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
    Jazz
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    That looks hot.

  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Sounds like more environments/tracks in this one than the first Dirt Rally, saying 8. I believe the first one only had 4 or 5.

    I need to hook-up my PS4 again and go back and play some DR, and maybe pickup the new F1. I do wish Codemasters would come up with some plans for the Switch though.

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Haas sticking with Magnussen and Grosjean for 2019 apparently. Just Toro Rosso, Force India, and Williams left to figure out who their drivers are.

    tsmvengy on
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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    As a heads up, this race starts at an unusual time (12.10 BST). Check the F1 site for a local time.

    On driver moves - not entirely surprised to see the effective end of Ericcson. He's pretty much the definition of average journeyman pay driver. He's had long enough in F1, time to let fresh blood take the seat.

    Also Kyvat is back in Toro Rosso. Guess they're running short on available drivers again?

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Will be interesting to see how Mercedes play this one. They appear to have a massive advantage, so it’s between their drivers (barring the unexpected). It’s one of Bottas best tracks (which is unfortunate, as it’s a horribly boring track that shouldn’t be on the calendar). Avoid crashing at the start at all costs, but if Bottas is ahead do you move him out of the way for the championship?

    I don’t think Merc will switch them, but really hard choice either way.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Race
    Ffs Mercedes. Horrible and obvious mistake on strategy. Being blunt they should have thrown Bottas under the bus to protect Hamilton’s position.

    Glad that Lewis could rectify it pretty quickly.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Keeping up with the race on the BBC Sport liveblog.
    Max is having a good day for his 21st so far.

    I feel so old.

    altid
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    And merc pull the trigger and let Hamilton past Bottas. Vettel was too close and Bottas was holding him up, had to be done.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Crucial bit of race action/info missed because the director was too busy showin putin.

    Just another reason this race should be binned.

    altid on
    tsmvengy
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Crucial bit of race action/info missed because the director was too busy showin putin.

    Just another reason this race should be binned.

    Yeah, it has very few redeeming features.

    Turn 3 is one of them, though!

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Sort-of apologetic Toto on the radio with Valtteri (I was listening on Radio 5 via the BBC Sport app). Mercedes have some stuff to unpack after this race.

    Jazz on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Post race.
    Unpopular opinion time! Mercedes were right in their decision and playing up the "poor Bottas" line is a disservice. I'm saying this as an unashamed Hamilton fan of course, but really what Bottas needs told is that if he wants to avoid situations like this, then he has to actually be in the championship fight. Before this race he was fourth in the championship, behind Kimi. Feeling owed a victory isn't going to make him any faster.

    From the championship point of view, Hamilton is in a tight fight with Vettel. He has to be your top priority. There's no point risking it to avoid a bruised ego. Any other team would have done the exact same thing. If anything, Mercedes were too generous to Bottas in the first round of stops and it nearly cost Hamilton position to Vettel.

    Edit: "The just in case this is misread" edit. This is a general comment about how the media/internet are playing the "poor Bottas" line rather than anyone specific.

    altid on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Post race.
    Unpopular opinion time! Mercedes were right in their decision and playing up the "poor Bottas" line is a disservice. I'm saying this as an unashamed Hamilton fan of course, but really what Bottas needs told is that if he wants to avoid situations like this, then he has to actually be in the championship fight. Before this race he was fourth in the championship, behind Kimi. Feeling owed a victory isn't going to make him any faster.

    From the championship point of view, Hamilton is in a tight fight with Vettel. He has to be your top priority. There's no point risking it to avoid a bruised ego. Any other team would have done the exact same thing. If anything, Mercedes were too generous to Bottas in the first round of stops and it nearly cost Hamilton position to Vettel.

    Edit: "The just in case this is misread" edit. This is a general comment about how the media/internet are playing the "poor Bottas" line rather than anyone specific.
    Except that Bottas was in front. This same thing played out back when Rossberg was still racing, only it was Hamilton they asked to move back for Rossberg, and Hamilton straight up refused. It's exceptionally clear that it's team Hamilton, not team Mercedes, because Rossberg left the team, and Hamilton is still there being given preferential treatment. Hamilton may be one of the great all time racers, but Bottas was in front.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    Crucial bit of race action/info missed because the director was too busy showin putin.

    Just another reason this race should be binned.

    Yeah, it has very few redeeming features.

    Turn 3 is one of them, though!

    The wet farting noises from the curbs can be funny if you let them

    Also says a lot about the value of this race.

    Jazz
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Lewis speaks:
    Hamilton has been explicit in the past in his desire for the team not to employ orders and was uncomfortable with their use in Russia after he took the flag in front of Bottas.

    “It is definitely a win on my list of wins that I am least proud of,” he said. “The strangest day I can remember in my career. I want to win the right way. As racing drivers we exist to win; if you tell us we can’t, it is like you are taking our life away. I would never wish it on someone else and I would never ask for it ever. I made sure in a meeting that they knew this is not how I want to win.”

    ...

    The Mercedes team principal, Toto Wolff, charged with returning a drivers’ and constructors’ title, was as ruthless as his board members would have wanted. “It’s deflating for drivers and for a team but there is a harsh reality also,” he said. “On a day like this you can extend the lead by seven points more in a championship that has been very tough and difficult at times, so you have to take it.”

    Hamilton echoed his rationale given what might still happen in the five races that remain. “The team were considering the car breaking down or losing two more engines,” he said. “We could lose the championship and that was their reasoning, hard as it is to swallow.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/30/lewis-hamilton-wins-russian-grand-prix-mercedes-team-orders-sebastian-vettel

    Jazz on
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Post race.
    Unpopular opinion time! Mercedes were right in their decision and playing up the "poor Bottas" line is a disservice. I'm saying this as an unashamed Hamilton fan of course, but really what Bottas needs told is that if he wants to avoid situations like this, then he has to actually be in the championship fight. Before this race he was fourth in the championship, behind Kimi. Feeling owed a victory isn't going to make him any faster.

    From the championship point of view, Hamilton is in a tight fight with Vettel. He has to be your top priority. There's no point risking it to avoid a bruised ego. Any other team would have done the exact same thing. If anything, Mercedes were too generous to Bottas in the first round of stops and it nearly cost Hamilton position to Vettel.

    Edit: "The just in case this is misread" edit. This is a general comment about how the media/internet are playing the "poor Bottas" line rather than anyone specific.

    My favorite part, as they were getting out of their cars:
    sn9l89voisdq.png
    Bottas checking for blistering on Hamilton's tires!

    steam_sig.png
    Jazz
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    well, season over

    I actually like the Sochi track. It's not bad. Definitely not bottom 5


    If Bottas isn't given a win after the championship is on ice (probably next race) then he's officially a doormat

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    If Sochi isn't in your bottom 5 (and, you know, that's fine, opinions etc), I'm curious as to what is, at least on the current calendar.

    Jazz on
  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    F1 2017

    I defeated the white whale. 1st at Monano, AI at 50%, (reduced) damage on, on inters the whole time, driving for Toro Rosso. That was a white knuckle race, beat Vettelbot by a whole .5s at the end. Front wing was scrap due to a mistep (should have turned braking assist up past low) right before the tunnel on the second to last lap, I have no idea how I managed, I was convinced I was done.

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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Anyone here playing Assetto Corsa Competizione?

    I just started playing around with it and had my first race in the (light) rain.

    It was glorious!

    The Force Feedback is something that's just amazing, you can feel the grip slipping away from you in the rain and puddles. The AI is also quite competent, but you'll see them slipping here and there.

    Can't wait for Spa or Silverstone to be added, to be honest, but right now it's great on the 'ring.

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    davidsdurions
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Stream replay for Dirt Rally 2.0, starts about 4 minutes in here. Some good gameplay shown as well as good questions and answers from dev side.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    the purchase price for Force India has been revealed as roughly 110 million USD


    that is hilariously low

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  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    the purchase price for Force India has been revealed as roughly 110 million USD


    that is hilariously low

    Renault bought the Lotus team for like $2 right?

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    Post race.
    Unpopular opinion time! Mercedes were right in their decision and playing up the "poor Bottas" line is a disservice. I'm saying this as an unashamed Hamilton fan of course, but really what Bottas needs told is that if he wants to avoid situations like this, then he has to actually be in the championship fight. Before this race he was fourth in the championship, behind Kimi. Feeling owed a victory isn't going to make him any faster.

    From the championship point of view, Hamilton is in a tight fight with Vettel. He has to be your top priority. There's no point risking it to avoid a bruised ego. Any other team would have done the exact same thing. If anything, Mercedes were too generous to Bottas in the first round of stops and it nearly cost Hamilton position to Vettel.

    Edit: "The just in case this is misread" edit. This is a general comment about how the media/internet are playing the "poor Bottas" line rather than anyone specific.
    Except that Bottas was in front. This same thing played out back when Rossberg was still racing, only it was Hamilton they asked to move back for Rossberg, and Hamilton straight up refused. It's exceptionally clear that it's team Hamilton, not team Mercedes, because Rossberg left the team, and Hamilton is still there being given preferential treatment. Hamilton may be one of the great all time racers, but Bottas was in front.
    Of course it's Team Hamilton right now. We can gnash teeth about the team order all day, but the fact of the matter is that Bottas hasn't driven well enough this year to be preferred for anything. He was fourth in the championship before Russia. His chance to prove he deserved equal treatment this time of year was before the summer break. Instead he was hilariously off the pace of Hamilton at several races. He even self admits that in his press conference comments from earlier today at the Japanese GP. Want to not be Hamilton's wing man? Then you better win some races and be close in points much earlier in the season.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    Post race.
    Unpopular opinion time! Mercedes were right in their decision and playing up the "poor Bottas" line is a disservice. I'm saying this as an unashamed Hamilton fan of course, but really what Bottas needs told is that if he wants to avoid situations like this, then he has to actually be in the championship fight. Before this race he was fourth in the championship, behind Kimi. Feeling owed a victory isn't going to make him any faster.

    From the championship point of view, Hamilton is in a tight fight with Vettel. He has to be your top priority. There's no point risking it to avoid a bruised ego. Any other team would have done the exact same thing. If anything, Mercedes were too generous to Bottas in the first round of stops and it nearly cost Hamilton position to Vettel.

    Edit: "The just in case this is misread" edit. This is a general comment about how the media/internet are playing the "poor Bottas" line rather than anyone specific.
    Except that Bottas was in front. This same thing played out back when Rossberg was still racing, only it was Hamilton they asked to move back for Rossberg, and Hamilton straight up refused. It's exceptionally clear that it's team Hamilton, not team Mercedes, because Rossberg left the team, and Hamilton is still there being given preferential treatment. Hamilton may be one of the great all time racers, but Bottas was in front.
    Of course it's Team Hamilton right now. We can gnash teeth about the team order all day, but the fact of the matter is that Bottas hasn't driven well enough this year to be preferred for anything. He was fourth in the championship before Russia. His chance to prove he deserved equal treatment this time of year was before the summer break. Instead he was hilariously off the pace of Hamilton at several races. He even self admits that in his press conference comments from earlier today at the Japanese GP. Want to not be Hamilton's wing man? Then you better win some races and be close in points much earlier in the season.

    Sure. And if he had moved back when it was his turn to do so with Rossberg, I wouldn't have had a problem. But he wasn't. All he cares about is himself.

    Hell, the very first season I watched, Hamilton ran Rossberg off the road on a race that happened after Hamilton had clinched the Driver's Championship. His desire to be #1 is so great, that he nearly caused his teammate to have an accident when there was literally nothing on the line.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Last year he quickly gave Bottas the place back at Hungary when asked, after they had swapped so Hamilton could attack. Maybe he just didn't like Rosberg? And after Rosberg's bullshit at Monaco in 2015, I don't blame him (he caused a yellow flag on purpose to stop Hamilton's flyer lap during Q3). Rosberg through the "let's play dirty" gauntlet down and Hamilton obliged.

    And yes, he has a ruthless killer instinct. It's almost like he's about to be a five time WDC.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Maybe it was just Rossberg, then.

    I guess most notably, we'll see when he has a teammate who can again challenge for the title at Mercedes.

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Yeah I think he and Rosberg just hated each other - Rosberg probably because he was to be the Merc #1 (the German driver on the German team!) and then they pinched Hamilton from McLaren. There were also some rumors that Rosberg was very good at setup and Hamilton was using all that information, and that in 2016 they basically stopped communicating between the garages.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Qualifying
    come on Ferrari, what are you even doing.

    Jazz
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Qualifying
    come on Ferrari, what are you even doing.
    Yeah, what a bonehead error. Only reason to start on inters is if you think the rain is going to pound down enough to ruin things, when that clearly wasn't going to happen.

    Also Vettel's fault that he messed up the one lap he did get - he could have been 4th!

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  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    Ferrari went from certain victory with a faster car, better strategic decision making and a cuthroat team of drivers to an almost unsurmoumtable points deficit, falling for silly ploys (I watched quali and Toto Wolfe totally pulled the whole “pull out the wrong tires to fake out the competition into making the wrong move” and Ferrari bought it HARD, and it cost them. Which wouldn’t have mattered if Vettel made made the most of his one clear to run lap, but he didn’t multiple times. The whiplash between here and 5 races ago is staggering.

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    tsmvengy
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