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[Formula One & motorsport] Virtual Spa 24h: Lando and Max in "I don't even"

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Posts

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It's not just about Verstappen I think, the introduction of the minimum age or the 2 years experience in junior formulae requirement alone would have addressed that case. In theory, the performance requirements should help keep out the worst of the pay drivers. It's a shame that the FIA has been absolutely horrible at coming up with a reasonable points allocation for the various series.

    Also, regarding your comments on the 'new' Hockenheim: What happened with the old forest section wasn't really Tilke's decision. In general, I think the guy gets a lot of hate for decisions that were, in many cases, probably forced on him by safety requirements, costs or demands by the track owners. I wouldn't be surprised if the situation is similar with Mexico.

    I mean, the guy also designed Istanbul Park and that is amazing.

    EDIT: Also, DTM is racing at Zandvoort in 2:30h. There is an official stream on the DTM YouTube channel, but I have no idea in which countries it is available.

    Xrdd on
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I think I phrased it badly. I'll blame Tilke for the relative blandness of new Hockenheim; but it's just a shame the old track is completely gone.

    Istanbul Park is one of his best, up there with COTA. He can mastermind great tracks, definitely, but his ratio of misses to hits isn't great.

    And the pay driver situation is already a ton better than it used to be. We haven't seen a Deletraz (to pick one random example) for a while. Maldonado is probably the closest to a real pay driver now and for all his many, many flaws, and his resultant position as a bit of a punchline, he still has genuine merit and on occasion can take it to the best of them.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Jules Bianchi has passed away

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/33578770

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    RIP Jules :(

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    :cry:

    Goddammit. RIP Jules.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It's been a long time since I've seen the racing fraternity, to a man, looking as utterly haunted as they did at Jules' funeral. Especially the shot of Vettel and Grosjean being pallbearers. That was very literally a "not seen anything like this since Senna" moment. Massa and Maldonado looked like they were barely holding it together at all. Can't say I blame them. My heart went out to them all, and of course Jules' friends and family.

    Luca di Montezemolo confirmed that Jules had been very much a shoe-in for a Ferrari seat. As early as next season, if Raikkonen leaves (or is pushed), possibly after a 2015 at Ferrari-powered Sauber. No doubt at all that he would have gone on to great things in the scarlet car.

    For me, it brings to mind Roger Williamson, mainly because he was another driver who came into F1 with an excellent "future world champion"-level reputation, in his case in 1973. He died in only his second Grand Prix in horrific circumstances, spoilered here for seriously, this might give you nightmares if you're not familiar with it:
    From Wikipedia:

    After his Formula One debut at the 1973 British Grand Prix, Williamson's second Formula One appearance was at the 1973 Dutch Grand Prix at Zandvoort Circuit. On his eighth lap, a suspected tyre failure caused his car to flip upside down and catch fire. Williamson had not been seriously injured by the impact, but was trapped under the car which was quickly engulfed in flame. The track marshals were both poorly trained and badly equipped, and did not assist him. Another driver, David Purley, upon witnessing the crash of his personal friend, abandoned his own race and pulled over in a desperate and valiant attempt to rescue Williamson. He ran across the track to Williamson's car and tried to turn it upright. When no-one came to help, he crossed the track and returned with a fire extinguisher. He emptied it on the car and signalled for others to help. Purley's efforts to turn the car upright and extinguish the flames were in vain as he received no help from nearby track marshals or emergency workers who merely stood by and looked on, in spite of attempts to encourage them, and other passing drivers, to come to his aid. Purley later stated he could hear Williamson's screams from underneath the car, but by the time the first fire engine arrived and the fire was extinguished, Williamson had died of asphyxiation. As most racers mistakenly identified Purley as the driver of the crashed car, and therefore thought the burning car to be empty, none of them stopped to help and the race continued, even as Purley stood on the circuit and gestured with his hands for them to stop.[1] Furthermore, the track marshals were wearing normal blazers and not the fire-resistant overalls which the drivers wore, and thus were not willing to go near the large flames. Purley was later awarded the George Medal for the bravery he displayed in attempting to rescue Williamson. A series of photos of the incident, showing a clearly desperate and ultimately dejected Purley, won that year's World Press Photo award for Photo Sequences. Williamson's incinerated remains would later be cremated with his ashes being sent to an undisclosed area. In the years following the accident, fire-resistant clothing would become mandatory for all trackside marshals so that they would be able to assist in the event of a fire. The next few years also saw a noticeable increase in drivers stopping at accident sites to assist in rescue efforts, notably at the 1976 German Grand Prix.

    In 2003, on the thirtieth anniversary of his fatal crash, a bronze statue of Williamson was unveiled at the Donington Park circuit in his native Leicestershire. Then-owner Tom Wheatcroft had provided financial backing to Williamson, and described the day Williamson died as "the saddest day of my life".[2]

    The unbelievably harrowing footage is included in the documentary Grand Prix - The Killer Years. So many things could have potentially saved Williamson, and David Purley is rightly remembered and lauded for his heroic but ultimately futile actions that day.

    Back to the present, though... I think it was touching and appropriate that the FIA has now retired the number 17, Bianchi's chosen racing number, from use in F1. I wonder what tribute(s) will occur at the Hungarian Grand Prix this weekend. I remember at Monaco in 1994, when the front row of the grid was left empty on race day, with Brazilian and Austrian flags painted on the grid positions for Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger after their deaths at the preceding San Marino GP. I wonder if the pole spot in Hungary will be left for Jules. If not, I'm sure something else will happen.

    We shall see.

    Jazz on
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Maldonado and Massa didn't hold it together.
    2AB8CDA400000578-3169177-image-a-41_1437476675615.jpg
    Over on Reddit, Will Buxton said this was the photo that did him in.

    I'm really glad to see the virtual safety car to slow everyone down through dangerous sectors; I'm really sad that it takes a death of a promising young driver to make it happen.

    And holy crap is that Roger Williamson story terrifying!

    Jazz
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    jimb213 wrote: »
    Maldonado and Massa didn't hold it together.
    2AB8CDA400000578-3169177-image-a-41_1437476675615.jpg
    Over on Reddit, Will Buxton said this was the photo that did him in.

    I'm really glad to see the virtual safety car to slow everyone down through dangerous sectors; I'm really sad that it takes a death of a promising young driver to make it happen.

    Yes and yes. :cry:
    jimb213 wrote:
    And holy crap is that Roger Williamson story terrifying!

    The only tiny glimmer of mercy in it, really, is that (spoilered for horrifying, again)
    the poor guy (probably) asphyxiated before he burned to death.

    I guarantee to anyone that if you see the footage - and, strangely enough, I'm actually going to say you should, because The Killer Years is essential viewing to truly understand where the focus on safety has actually come from, given the utterly ludicrous mortality rate F1 used to have - that it will be seared into your memory for the rest of your days.

    Jazz on
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    i saw this story on Wikipedia and I still don't quite understand... does Forumla One not use safety cars? If they do, why wasn't a decision made to put one out while the tractor was on the track lifting the wreck?

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    The Ender wrote: »
    i saw this story on Wikipedia and I still don't quite understand... does Forumla One not use safety cars? If they do, why wasn't a decision made to put one out while the tractor was on the track lifting the wreck?

    Yes, F1 does use a safety car, and surprisingly often. In hindsight, the safety car should absolutely have been out at that point, but it was deemed that double waved yellow flags - the next step down from a full safety car at the time, and meaning drivers should slow down and be prepared to stop - was enough. And on any other day in history, more than likely it would have been enough.

    Frankly, IMO, and I sadly admit that again this is with hindsight, the race should never have gone ahead, purely for the weather being so atrocious that the medical helicopter was unable to be used. It wouldn't have saved Jules if it had (the difference in time using the ground ambulance versus the chopper was a scant seven minutes), but I think you can safely draw a red line there. I like to see F1 cars racing in the wet as much as anyone else, it creates incredible races more often than not, but - again, with the benefit of hindsight - it was just too bad that day.

    Jazz on
    jimb213
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It was a somewhat flukey thing, to skid off the track in the exact same spot, and then crash into the wrecker in just the right way where almost no part of the car hit it until his head does. Like 6" left he slams the nose into the tractors wheel, 6" right it misses him(but not the car), either way he probably walks away.

    e:

    The tractor wasn't on the track per se, It was well off the track lifting a car by on of the sidewalls to clear it(there is a lot more space around the course than in something like NASCAR). Not sure if that is what is causing confusion.

    tinwhiskers on
    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Yeah, the recovery vehicle was out from behind the barriers, but in a large gravel trap designed to provide the cars with a run-off before they get to the barrier. It wasn't on the circuit itself; actually it was some distance from it.

    And sadly, yes... six inches either way and he'd have most likely walked away. It was dreadful luck as much as any other single factor.

    Jazz on
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    jimb213 wrote:
    And holy crap is that Roger Williamson story terrifying!

    The only tiny glimmer of mercy in it, really, is that (spoilered for horrifying, again)
    the poor guy (probably) asphyxiated before he burned to death.

    I guarantee to anyone that if you see the footage - and, strangely enough, I'm actually going to say you should, because The Killer Years is essential viewing to truly understand where the focus on safety has actually come from, given the utterly ludicrous mortality rate F1 used to have - that it will be seared into your memory for the rest of your days.

    I've seen that footage, several times, and every time I watch Purley's desperate and futile attempt to save his friend it just brutally drives home that these drivers, then and now, really are some of the bravest and best people the human race can produce.

    Afterall, Purley got back in the car and fucking raced the very next weekend.

    Jazz
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Yeah, I finally saw the footage of the actual wreck (they didn't show it during the broadcast), and basically his head hit the back of the tractor/crane vehicle. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't killed instantly. Those are some insane helmets they have.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Imma follow this rabbit hole now, even though I'm not a motorsport enthusiast.


    firing-up The Killer Years as I type...


    EDIT: ...And, Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with people? The footage with Purley is unbelievable. Wow.

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Yeah, just finished The Killer Years. That was some messed up stuff! Black & White footage of (I'm assuming) a corpse being pulled from burned out wreckage, the wreck that literally looks like one car was an explosive bomb launched at the other, the Williams/Purley thing...

    I'm really glad on-track deaths are relatively rare now.

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    The Ender wrote: »
    Imma follow this rabbit hole now, even though I'm not a motorsport enthusiast.


    firing-up The Killer Years as I type...


    EDIT: ...And, Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with people? The footage with Purley is unbelievable. Wow.

    I am inherently biased against a lot of the rules that limit speeds in most motor sports. Part of me just really wants to see what my engineering brethren can make if they just took the restraints off. As many turbos as they can stage together on v12, fan produced downforce and ETC, rocket assisted starts etc. Part of me just wants something as close to the SR-71 as they can fit into the grid box. But then you watch that and see what the cost of wild west motor racing is and its like...nope.

    The BBC has another one Madness on Wheels: Rallying's Craziest Years about Rally Group B in the 80s ...imagine if the course is only 1.5-2 cars wide, and at the exact edge of that width is where spectators are allowed to stand with no barrier what so ever. On the straits, in corners, immediately after rises that get the cars airborne, ohh and the courses aren't just tarmac but also dirt and gravel and snow and go along ravines and valleys and cliffs.

    And if you're like, well that sounds like a reasonable thing to do, they all but chuck the rulebook on car designs out the window, to the point where HP doubles in the 5 years the group exists.


    tinwhiskers on
    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
    Jazz
  • AimAim Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Add to it that the spectators are idiots that will stand on the track just to run away when the cars come racing along like waters parting.

    Edit:
    Here's a video

    Aim on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    I wish there was money for basically unlimited computer/remote controlled racing with whatever powertrains and telemetry and aero they can imagine.

    Just enough limitations to keep the fans save and the cars from being a danger to each other. Then let tech giants get together and make really just stupidly fast AI cars.

    Grand Turing.

    This machine kills threads.
    GethJazzSeal
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Yeah, Madness on Wheels is also nuts. Thankfully fewer deaths than The Killer Years... although still not zero.

    Also, with rather insensitive timing, it has come out that the G-force readings for Bianchi's crash may have been inaccurate, and he may have suffered a 254g (not a typo) impact. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/13305244/jules-bianchi-suffered-254g-impact-suzuka-f1-crash

    Egads.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Two Hundred and Fifty Four?!

    Holy shit...

    jimb213Jazz
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Qualis:
    http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/2015/hungarian-grand-prix/results/qualifying

    1. Ham
    2. Ros
    3. Vet
    4. Ric
    5. Rai
    6. Bot
    7. Kvy
    8. Mas
    9. Ves
    10. Gro


    Also, when Alonso's car broke down near the pits, he pushed it back himself(WARNING: HUGE gif) The marshals did eventually help.


    It'll be interesting to see a RBR actually fighting(hopefully)

  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Hoping for a good race for Ricciardo. Only 4 hundredths off Vettel in qualifying and pretty much the fastest out there on race fuel loads in practice 2. Pretty sure he was the only one to get through Q1 without using a set of soft tyres too, so he might have an extra set of fresh ones (not entirely sure how his tyre use went in Q2 because of the red flag).

    DDLLLLDL - Bottom in November
    WWDWDWWWWDWWWWLDWWW - Premiers in April
    WW - Champions in May

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    That was a great race. Hülkenberg's accident was pretty scary, it seems like FI got their estimations of the stress they'd put on the various components on the car badly wrong this weekend. I'm a little annoyed with just how lucky Hamilton is - he screws up constantly and still ends up in front of Rosberg who made one single mistake in the entire race. Vettel's speech on the radio after the race was quite touching. Whoever decided to let Kai Ebel do the podium interviews, especially on a weekend like this, needs to be fired.

    Xrdd on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Race
    Well, that was more than a bit crazy. I'll say now that I'm basically a Hamilton fan so I'm a bit biased.

    First off Merc need to sort those starts out. The reg changes will make this particularly interesting next race. Blinding start by both Ferrari's though. Hamilton screwed up with the off which put him effectively out of contention, but drove a pretty impressive race to get back up to fourth and probably would have taken Rosberg eventually.

    The safety car should have given him a chance to win it. I thought the penatly for the incident was very harsh actually - he'd locked up slightly and had understeer, not surprising since he was on the hard tyres after a SC restart. I've heard commentators talk about how, if you're going around the outside of someone in that position you have to give them a bit more room to avoid exactly the type of incident seen here. Racing incident, Hamilton came off far worse than Ricciardo anyway. I'd say if anything the Rosberg/Ricciardo incident was much more avoidable.

    As for Rosberg, yes he was (potentially) a bit unlucky to pick up a puncture like that. I have to watch a replay again to see the specifics. But his main problem was just that he was too slow for most of the race. He also made a terrible tyre choice for the final stint. Why go on the harder tyre when the softer option is there and wear isn't an issue?

    Kimi may deserve the award for "most screwed over" today. Was really looking forward to seeing him on the podium.

    Also Alonso in 5th?! Both McLarens int he points?! What sort of madness is this?

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    altid wrote: »
    Race
    The safety car should have given him a chance to win it. I thought the penatly for the incident was very harsh actually - he'd locked up slightly and had understeer, not surprising since he was on the hard tyres after a SC restart. I've heard commentators talk about how, if you're going around the outside of someone in that position you have to give them a bit more room to avoid exactly the type of incident seen here. Racing incident, Hamilton came off far worse than Ricciardo anyway. I'd say if anything the Rosberg/Ricciardo incident was much more avoidable.
    I absolutely disagree. That was not a racing incident, it was a completely avoidable accident. Hamilton went for a move that was never going to happen and ran straight into Ricciardo. Hamilton is an experienced driver, expecting him to know that his car will behave differently on cold, hard tires after a safety car period isn't exactly a lot to ask.

    EDIT: Best moment of the race (no spoiler).

    Xrdd on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Xrdd wrote: »
    altid wrote: »
    Race
    The safety car should have given him a chance to win it. I thought the penatly for the incident was very harsh actually - he'd locked up slightly and had understeer, not surprising since he was on the hard tyres after a SC restart. I've heard commentators talk about how, if you're going around the outside of someone in that position you have to give them a bit more room to avoid exactly the type of incident seen here. Racing incident, Hamilton came off far worse than Ricciardo anyway. I'd say if anything the Rosberg/Ricciardo incident was much more avoidable.
    I absolutely disagree. That was not a racing incident, it was a completely avoidable accident. Hamilton went for a move that was never going to happen and ran straight into Ricciardo. Hamilton is an experienced driver, expecting him to know that his car will behave differently on cold, hard tires after a safety car period isn't exactly a lot to ask.

    EDIT: Best moment of the race (no spoiler).
    Considering that the standard penalty for causing a collision seems to be 5 seconds (for reference, that's what Button got for taking Maldonado out of the race in China), and that he was on the inside defending his line, I maintain it was overly harsh. I'd also note that Ricciardo made a much worse move with his divebomb when attempting to pass Rosberg, the only difference being that Rosberg wasn't in the way until the collision on exit.

    Geth
  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    There is no standard penalty for causing a collision, it is decided on a case by case basis, depending on how badly the responsible driver screwed up (and by that metric, the Button - Maldonado crash simply wasn't as bad as what Hamilton did today). A lot of incidents fall short of warranting a drive through penalty, some don't, some even warrant a race ban. I'd say Hamilton's penalty was absolutely fair.

    Ricciardo's move was in no way worse than what Hamilton did. He locked up and ultimately didn't make that pass, obviously, but he didn't hit anyone or come particularly close to doing so. The contact with Rosberg was a racing incident, as much due to Rosberg coming across a tiny bit too quickly as anything else. Hamilton, OTOH, badly misjudged his braking, speared straight into another car and nearly took it out of the race.

    There's a reason Hamilton picked up a drive through and 2 penalty points and Ricciardo got nothing.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Boy the new bodywork on these Demolition derby cars is crazy


    Edit:
    I think it's pretty telling of where the drivers are right now that Hamilton is responding to everything with "Man, I'm really sorry to my team, I'm sorry for my fans. I didn't drive well and I'm sorry", and Rosberg is responding to everything with "RICCIARDO HIT ME AND IT WAS HIS FAULT AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME WINNING"

    Khavall on
    Jazz
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    DDLLLLDL - Bottom in November
    WWDWDWWWWDWWWWLDWWW - Premiers in April
    WW - Champions in May

    SparvyJazzDrovek
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    That's amazing.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Special mention to Maldonado for managing 3 penalties in one race.

    Not sure why Grosjean got penalty points for an unsafe release though. I thought it was generally considered to be the team's responsibility rather than the driver.

    Jazzevilbob
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Agreed, the driver has pretty much no responsibility for an unsafe release.

  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    Jensen Button and his wife were gassed and robbed!

    No one was hurt, but damn that has to be a messed up feeling to wake up to something like that.

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    They were robbed but the gas bit is unconfirmed:
    The group were unharmed but have been left “unsurprisingly shaken by the events”, a spokesman for Button said.

    He said: “Jenson, Jessica and friends were on holiday in a rented villa in St Tropez when on Monday evening two men broke into the property whilst they all slept and stole a number of items of jewellery including, most upsettingly, Jessica’s engagement ring.

    “The police have indicated that this has become a growing problem in the region with perpetrators going so far as to gas their proposed victims through the air conditioning units before breaking in.”

    (source)

    The claim that gas was used in this specific case comes from the Sun citing an unnamed source. I remain skeptical.

    jimb213
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    The BBC says gas "suspected"; "may have been used". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33814823

    Terrible either way, though. I'm not surprised they're shaken up. I'm just glad they're alright.

  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    We're BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
    FP1!
    ghB7fEE.jpg?1
    FP2!
    UtDWNeG.jpg?1

    Real wings have curves!
    eVAPmb1.jpg

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Scary
    blowout for Rosberg in FP2.

    That could've been really nasty, especially at goddamn Blanchimont. Egads.

    Also:

    hasmaldonadocrashedtoday.com

    Jazz on
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