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[Formula One & motorsport] W Series Round 5, Netherlands: Reverse grid trial

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Posts

  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    In Soviet Russia...

    (Quail results)
    Lotus out qualifies YOU
    oBbNwLn.jpg?1

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Seriously impressive pace from Mercedes, as usual. Likewise Hamilton nailed it on that lap.

    Impressive from Grosjean and Perez. Probably both glad they're ahead of Maldonado.

    Ferrari awol today, especially Kimi's engine (again). Very disappointing considering Spa is one of Kimi's best tracks.

    And finally, so much for Honda's engine upgrades. Talking about the same power as Ferrari, a cumulative penalty of about 50 places for all the changes and still only faster than the Manor cars.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Is there non-highlight video of the qualifying? 1pm BST is pretty freaking early here. :P

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    To correct myself, McLaren have actually been handed a 105 place grid penalty. I really would love to know where the 105th spot on the grid would even be. A rule change means they'll simply start at the back though.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34008319

  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    To correct myself, McLaren have actually been handed a 105 place grid penalty. I really would love to know where the 105th spot on the grid would even be. A rule change means they'll simply start at the back though.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34008319

    McClaren will actually be starting in Monaco.

    Jazz
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Well that was interesting.



    Some highlights:
    Williams accidentally puts one Prime tyre on with Bottas running Options:
    Big ol' GIF

    Vettel goes for a one-stop and instead of degrading and losing grip his fucking tyre explodes
    Big ol' video



    Goddamn Roman Grosjean came in 3rd! aka non-merc won!

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Lots of people talking about blaming
    Ferrari or Pirelli for Vettel's blowout. If it's true that Pirelli said to Vettel that the tyre should be good for 40 laps, 25 of them at competitive speed, then it shouldn't have gone bang. If not, perhaps it's fair to apportion more blame to Ferrari for pushing it too hard for the one-stop.

    But both Rosberg and Vettel were very, very lucky this weekend. Eau Rouge and Blanchimont are not places you want a tyre to explode with no warning and both could have suffered horrendous accidents.

    My gut feeling is Pirelli need to get their shit together.

    As, apparently, do Williams for different reasons. They seem bound and determined to sabotage themselves at the moment.


    On a much, much lighter note:
    Yay Grosjean! I'm an unashamed fan of the guy and it was awesome to see him on the podium again. Both Lotuses looked strong in qualifying so hopefully they can get some more good results. It wasn't so long ago that Grosjean was just about the only guy out there keeping the stampeding Vettel honest in the latter stages of the season; I hope he can do the same to the Mercs this season. And if they ever run into trouble, maybe pick up that first win? I can hope.

    Also, Kvyat continues to quietly be awesome and rack up good finishes. The BBC interview with him on Saturday was really good, he's an interesting and likeable chap as well as a fine driver.

    Actually the Beeb's Saturday pre-qualifying show was all great. Interviews with Kvyat and Raikkonen (he actually smiled!), Alonso's museum, and a great Verstappen piece with Jos and Max talking about Max's karting days, with a fascinating look inside their kart garage. Well worth a watch if you can access it on iPlayer or elsewhere.


    And at the start:
    I actually missed Perez's blinding getaway because I was too busy noticing the McLarens! Shame they couldn't make hay with it but both their starts were unbelievable! 19th and 20th to 12th and 14th in the blink of an eye! Everything else might've been a weekend to forget for them but that was cool.

  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    :(
    so sad about Ricciardo going out. pace was great and doing his last stint on softs he was easily a chance at the podium.

    DDLLLLDL - Bottom in November
    WWDWDWWWWDWWWWLDWWW - Premiers in April
    WW - Champions in May

    Jazz
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Vettel post race interview



    Foomy on
    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Yeah, he wasn't a happy bunny at all. Not surprising even discounting the effect on his finishing result.

    Still, Angry Seb is always entertaining!

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Lots of people talking about blaming
    Ferrari or Pirelli for Vettel's blowout. If it's true that Pirelli said to Vettel that the tyre should be good for 40 laps, 25 of them at competitive speed, then it shouldn't have gone bang. If not, perhaps it's fair to apportion more blame to Ferrari for pushing it too hard for the one-stop.

    But both Rosberg and Vettel were very, very lucky this weekend. Eau Rouge and Blanchimont are not places you want a tyre to explode with no warning and both could have suffered horrendous accidents.

    My gut feeling is Pirelli need to get their shit together.

    As, apparently, do Williams for different reasons. They seem bound and determined to sabotage themselves at the moment.
    There's really no way to put the blame for this on Ferrari. The tyres didn't even suffer from any significant drop in performance before one of them suddenly exploded. That's not an acceptable way for such a critical component to fail.

    Besides, there was a Pirelli engineer in the Ferrari garage the whole race and if the team really had been pushing the tyres beyond the limits of what Pirelli consider safe, he presumably would have warned them.

    Jazz
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    It wasn't a blowout, the tire delaminated. Doesn't that mean they ran the tires too long?

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    Usually, the Pirellis lose grip to the point where they're basically unusable long before they actually fail. This didn't happen to Vettel, Ferrari didn't violate the parameters set by Pirelli and Pirelli apparently didn't see the failure coming.

    So I'd say this is a case of Pirelli making a shitty tyre that didn't last long enough, not of Ferrari running that set too long.

    Jazz
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    For the sake of convenience, is it possible to talk without spoilers a day after the race?
    Anyway..
    It is worth noting that Vettel was thrashing the tyres over the kerbs. He was outside the track several times with those tires which certainly can't have helped.

    Glad to see Grosjean on the podium, hope it gives him and the team a bit of a boost. They really need that Renault buyout fast - and if it happens I'm pretty sure Maldonado will be out (but perhaps not out of F1 - depends on the situation in Venezuela ).

    I was rather disappointed by Williams. Not just because of the screw up, but because they just weren't fast. I thought the low-ish downforce nature of Spa would have helped them.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I put the spoiler rule in place after an issue in the last thread. If there's no objections, we can absolutely change it; pare it back a day or even ditch it altogether and I'll just keep spoilers out of the thread title.

    Thoughts/opinions? After all, the thread's for all of us. :)

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Well, I'm brand new to this thread, so I'll defer. I'm actually new to racing. I never really sat down and watched a race even though I've always loved cars and motorsports, but I recently befriended an F1 fanatic so I'm getting into it now.

    I don't know the racers, so I have none in particular that I'm cheering for, but my first impulse was to cheer for McLaren and I'm running with that.

    Gonna have to wait to next year, it seems. :P

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    I'd be happier with 2 days myself as sometimes i can't watch the race until monday evening, but one day could work too.

    As long as spoilers aren't in the open day of race and never in the thread title.

    Foomy on
    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Well, I'm brand new to this thread, so I'll defer. I'm actually new to racing. I never really sat down and watched a race even though I've always loved cars and motorsports, but I recently befriended an F1 fanatic so I'm getting into it now.

    I don't know the racers, so I have none in particular that I'm cheering for, but my first impulse was to cheer for McLaren and I'm running with that.

    Gonna have to wait to next year, it seems. :P
    Well, welcome to F1! Always nice to have someone new getting into it. Of course, any questions you have, we'll be happy to answer them.

    McLaren have a long and storied history, been champs many times, and do have probably the best driver line-up this year... not that you'd know it from the results they've been getting. But they will be back at the front one day, I have no doubt of that :)

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Somebody needs to take Mercedes down a peg. :P

    Jazz
  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza RIP Iwata-san..... ...and thanks for the Switch, you magnificent bastard.Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    I know this is an F1 thread but what I have to say pertains to F1 cars as well. Pardon the length. I just had to get this off my chest, it was burning a hole straight through me:


    When I was a kid my parents took me to the Indy 500.. twice. The only race I remember clearly is when Buddy Lazier won with a broken back. It was the greatest fucking thing I’d ever seen in my life. He was so hurt that he couldn't even get out of his car to celebrate in winners circle. It was the type of stuff that creates legends, and solidifies a mans godlike status in an impressionable young boy's mind..It was immediately obvious to me that this wasn’t like other sports, when the cars went past you could really feel it in your gut, that kind of visceral feeling that forms the core of all great memories. It was as if you were participating in the race itself just by being there, connected by the vibrations of the engines as they passed through the rafters.. It was in that moment that I considered the IndyCar community to be like my family. They’d all experienced this awesome thing the same time I did, and that meant something to me. I wanted to be a Driver so bad it hurt. I got to drive on the track in a pace car, I got a peice of the brickyard when they tore it up, I even had an unfortunate moment in the Driver’s picture shop when I asked my dad out loud if they had any pictures of drivers dying in wrecks... while about 20 members of the drivers families stood around me. The kind of thing that you can only get away with when you’re 10, which I was. Now that I'm older I finally see why my dad looked at me the way he did when I said that. I don’t follow IndyCar as much any more, but I still consider the community family, and this hurts, bad.

    Indycar ( and Formula 1) need canopies for all drivers. How many people are we going to have to lose before everyone get's on board with this? If anything it would make them look like a fighter jet, which is rad! Hey you could even put holographic hud stuff on the glass! Something needs to change. An entire generation of brilliant young drivers are being wiped out.

    RIP Justin Wilson

    Handsome Costanza on
    Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    I want to argue against that. I really, really like the open cockpits and think a canopy is just plain wrong and that Le Mans is cheapened by not having open cockpit LMP cars...

    ...but you're right. Fighting against the canopy at this point is like fighting against the HANS device after the 2001 Daytona 500.

    Handsome Costanza
  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza RIP Iwata-san..... ...and thanks for the Switch, you magnificent bastard.Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Veevee wrote: »
    I want to argue against that. I really, really like the open cockpits and think a canopy is just plain wrong and that Le Mans is cheapened by not having open cockpit LMP cars...

    ...but you're right. Fighting against the canopy at this point is like fighting against the HANS device after the 2001 Daytona 500.

    I love the open cockpit too. It's part of what makes open wheel racing special, but it's not worth the casualties. It's not worth one more guy getting beaned by debris thats impossible to dodge. It has to stop and it has to change right now, yesterday.

    Every single time that they race until canopies happen they will be putting the drivers in mortal danger, and far more of it than there needs to be. In a sport that is dangerous by it's very nature you want to minimize risk as much as possible, and they're just not getting that done until they introduce a canopy or something else that will protect the drivers head from metal parts that can be up to the size of a basketball or larger and are coming at them at 200+mph. I don't see any way to provide legit protection other than a canopy, unless they invent force fields.

    Handsome Costanza on
    Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza RIP Iwata-san..... ...and thanks for the Switch, you magnificent bastard.Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Now, would a canopy have saved Dan Wheldon? Probably not, but Senna would have lived. The driver who hit the marshall would have lived. Massa wouldn't have been clipped on the side of his head. Justin Wilson would have lived.... What happens if things continue without change? It will happen again. It's simply a matter of time and physics with a dash of human error. It's worth giving up a little bit of what makes racing special if it will save that future drivers life.

    Handsome Costanza on
    Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Make the canopy out of ALON (You know, transparent aluminum) and I wont even care. It'll be like it's an open cockpit without framing or anything else reducing visibility, and you'll be able to put a HUD on the glass for the driver?

    Sign me the fuck up to this Star Trek Racing Experience, please.

    Handsome Costanza
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
    Handsome Costanza
  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza RIP Iwata-san..... ...and thanks for the Switch, you magnificent bastard.Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Make the canopy out of ALON (You know, transparent aluminum) and I wont even care. It'll be like it's an open cockpit without framing or anything else reducing visibility, and you'll be able to put a HUD on the glass for the driver?

    Sign me the fuck up to this Star Trek Racing Experience, please.

    You know damn well if a holographic hud was involved it would be used entirely for advertising.

    Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza RIP Iwata-san..... ...and thanks for the Switch, you magnificent bastard.Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    dlinfiniti wrote: »

    Are you telling me that open wheel racing is about to be invaded by curling players?

    Edit: apparently going to war as a curling player means you use comically oversized curling equipment to fight with.

    Edit2: Is this some kind of optical illusion or is that canopy floating?

    Edit3: good call. That fighter canopy would be perfect for an indy car. It looks cool too!

    Handsome Costanza on
    Nintendo Switch friend code: 7305-5583-0420. Add me!
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    The word going around at the minute is that Renault are finalizing the deal to buy back Lotus and form a proper works team.
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120532

    Glad to see Renault going all in if that's the case.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    The word going around at the minute is that Renault are finalizing the deal to buy back Lotus and form a proper works team.
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120532

    Glad to see Renault going all in if that's the case.

    It'd be a shame to lose the Lotus name, but at this point, ensuring the survival of the Enstone team needs to be the priority. And making sure Grosjean has a race seat is a damn close second, IMO.

    Drovek
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    To be fair, it wasn't really Lotus anyway. Enstone has much closer links with Renault than the ghost of Lotus. It will be fun in the engine stakes though, seeing as they'd only just got Merc engines.

    And it does bode very well for Grosjean.

    Jazz
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    True, true. When what was Caterham first joined in 2010 under the Lotus banner, they had more ties to the Chapman family/legacy than Enstone had. At least then. But then, alliances started shifting. 2011 infamously gave us two teams calling themselves Lotus as Enstone secured the current guise of the road car company as title sponsors. Tony Fernandes in the "green & yellow" garage seemed to do well at alienating people, moving the name further in the direction of the "black & gold" team, and on and on it went... what a damn saga that was.

    Renault need to get their shit together with the engines now. I remember too well Grosjean's agonised radio chatter last season. Maybe having a works team will help them. I can see Grosjean having mixed feelings but if the alternative is him losing a race seat, he's got no choice. Although if Ferrari retain their current level of interest in him, he might be a shoe-in there in 2017, which would be awesome given Ferrari's current trajectory.

    Of course, Red Bull have been Renault's works team - officially or not - for the last few years so that puts them in a bit of a spot. I can more likely see them remaining Renault customers, but if Lot... er, Enstone then lose the Merc engine, which they will with becoming a Renault works team, Red Bull might get to pounce on that as Merc might not want to be down one customer team.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Ahh, the 2 Lotus saga was fun times. What would F1 be without a hefty dose of politics?

    What I found interesting from that autosport article is that Red Bull have a "priority" clause for next year at least, so even if the deal goes through Renault would have to treat Red Bull as their works team on paper unless they can negotiate out of it. Could be quite tricky since Renault and Red Bull really don't get on that well - and can you blame Renault after taking crap from Red Bull even when they were winning? RB have backed themselves into a fairly tricky position with Renault looking to drop them and nobody else really that willing to pick them up, and definitely not as a works team.

    On the subject of Grosjean, how do people view the "upcoming world champions"? The likes of Grosjean, Bottas and (for a while) Hulkenberg have all been tipped as potential champions, but they all suffer the same problem - the big seats are all occupied by people I can't see retiring anytime soon. The three fastest drivers are generally considered to be Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso - and of those only Alonso is really close to retirement (not that McLaren is really that hot a seat right now anyway).

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited August 2015
    altid wrote: »
    Ahh, the 2 Lotus saga was fun times. What would F1 be without a hefty dose of politics?

    What I found interesting from that autosport article is that Red Bull have a "priority" clause for next year at least, so even if the deal goes through Renault would have to treat Red Bull as their works team on paper unless they can negotiate out of it. Could be quite tricky since Renault and Red Bull really don't get on that well - and can you blame Renault after taking crap from Red Bull even when they were winning? RB have backed themselves into a fairly tricky position with Renault looking to drop them and nobody else really that willing to pick them up, and definitely not as a works team.

    On the subject of Grosjean, how do people view the "upcoming world champions"? The likes of Grosjean, Bottas and (for a while) Hulkenberg have all been tipped as potential champions, but they all suffer the same problem - the big seats are all occupied by people I can't see retiring anytime soon. The three fastest drivers are generally considered to be Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso - and of those only Alonso is really close to retirement (not that McLaren is really that hot a seat right now anyway).

    All three that you name have been "linked to" - whether they will admit it or not - that second Ferrari seat when Kimi goes. Three into one won't go so two of them are going to be disappointed. Bottas may actually be the best off in that regard; Williams are in a good place at the moment and, barring any unforeseen crap cars, should either get stronger or at least no lower down the pecking order. If/when Lotus becomes Renault, a lot is going to come down to the engine, but that will get taken into account for Grosjean. Hulkenberg, I fear, has missed the boat, although his Le Mans win gave him a sorely-needed notability boost.

    Red Bull always promote from within, so they're unavailable. Mercedes seem to want to stick with Rosberg, although I'm starting to wonder if that will continue beyond next year as Hamilton just runs rings around him. McLaren aren't looking promising for a long time yet and, if they can continue to afford them and keep them motivated (which may be an issue), have no reason to drop Button or Alonso. They're not young but they can still bring it; they've both still got a few years left in them yet.

    The only other notable seat that may open up for 2017 is at Williams, as it's no secret that Massa is at the tail end of his career. Hulk has already been at Williams, though, and wasn't retained despite his brilliant pole in Brazil (remember he did two laps that were good enough; it was no fluke). But then, look at Maldonado at Williams... he got them an unlikely win, on merit, and has been regarded (slightly unfairly) as a joke ever since, albeit a joke that brings a lot of cash.

    I expect the drivers to remain mostly static for 2016, but 2017 could be a big shift around, and Raikkonen's and Massa's are, in that order, the seats to look at, with Rosberg's an outside shot if he continues to fade. I'd love to see Grosjean at Ferrari, Bottas stay at an even stronger Williams, and Hulk at Merc (his nationality might just help him out there). If Hamilton and Vettel stay in place, Red Bull keep Ricciardo and Kvyat (or replace one with Verstappen) and manage to either get a good engine or drag themselves up some other way, and the playing field car-wise levels out a bit between Merc, Ferrari, Williams and Red Bull, with McLaren improving enough to snap at their heels (possible by 2017), that could be absolutely titanic.

    -

    If I was playing Grand Prix Manager (I'd love another one of those!), and had those guys to choose between, I'd be a gibbering wreck trying to narrow it down to just two.

    Jazz on
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Is this going to be one of the last times we talk about another Italian Grand Prix at Monza?

    I hate Bernie so much for that even being a goddamn question.

    altid
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Massa and Bottas confirmed at Williams for next year. Expected, but still good.

    Hulk confirmed at Force India for next year. Same. Hopefully.

    But Hamilton continues to get the headlines...

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Qualifying:
    r7npw5iy8rab.jpg


    Go on, Kimi :)

    Jazz on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Need to catch up a bit on this thread, but immediate post race drama:
    Word has it that Merc are being investigated for being below minimum tyre pressure at the start of the race. It would explain why they pushed Lewis to go so fast at the end - to get a 25 sec gap to cover a potential penalty, although knowing the FIA they'd probably DSQ him to "keep the championship interesting"

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    If it's true they absolutely should disqualify him. That's usually been the penalty when someone showed up with an illegal wing or an underweight car. If anything, this is worse due to the safety concerns with the tyres.

    I think it's more likely that they came up with some way to have the tyres above the minimum when they are checked and below during the race. Workarounds like that usually just result in the FIA implementing more thorough checks (see: front wing deflection tests).

    Xrdd on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    The details I'm hearing is that only his left front was 0.3 PSI below threshold, and that the pirelli engineer signed off on it before the race. In that case I place the blame pretty squarely with Pirelli.

  • XrddXrdd Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Full technical delegate's report:
    On the grid and after the 5-Minutes signal the tyre starting pressure and tread surface temperature of the left hand side rear tyre were checked on car numbers 44, 06, 05 and 07 and were compared with the specifications of the official Formula One tyre supplier. The specification for the minimum starting pressure is 19.5 PSI for the dry weather rear tyres and the maximum tyre blanket temperature is 110 °C for all dry weather tyres.

    The tread surface temperature of the left hand side rear tyre of car numbers 44, 06, 05 and 07 was within the specification of the official Formula One tyre supplier.

    The measured minimum tyre starting pressure of the left hand side rear tyre of car numbers 05 and 07 was above the specified minimum tyre starting pressure.

    The measured minimum tyre starting pressure of the left hand side rear tyre of car number 44 was 0.3 PSI below the specified minimum tyre starting pressure and the measured minimum tyre starting pressure of car number 06 was 1.1 PSI below the specified minimum tyre starting pressure.

    The tyre pressures were checked with the calibrated tyre pressure gauge of the official Formula One tyre supplier on all four cars.

    I am referring this matter to the stewards for their consideration.

    So only the left rear was checked, the other tyres could have been below the minimum as well. Doesn't really matter what the Pirelli engineer said, if the pressure was outside the specifications it was outside the specifications and should result in a DSQ. Also, it doesn't make any sense for Pirelli to sign off on Merc running pressures below the minimum when they were the ones pushing for the introduction of the minimum in the first place.

    EDIT: Stewards have reached a decision:
    tHydzdQ.png

    Xrdd on
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