Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
That protocol droid looks a bit like a Quarren to me (the head at least, it has the shape)
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I find it a little . . . weird? . . . that there are so many new alien races in this film, judging by some of the print media. I see so many brand-new species, but little representation of our old favorites like Rodians and Sullustians and whatnot.
I think the guy on the far left is an Ithorian (though his mouth is in the wrong place)? But other than that, 100% new aliens. Kinda weird, and still kinda cool.
Is that a female C3PO with a mask?
Looks kind of like scorpio from TOR.
It looks like the feminine robot from Space Balls.
I am sure there is something interesting to be said or done with the idea of gender in a sexless construct, but this description gives me little hope that that will be the case here. Ah well.
Well, it's...been a while since I watched Space Balls.
Oh I just meant that despite taking place in space and having robots, which provide interesting possibilities in terms of ideas of gender in things that are sexless, or having a completely genderless set of "creatures" that is everywhere, it's kind of boring to go "OH HEY THEY ARE DUDES UNLESS THEY HAVE BOOBS," even if it is easy (and arguable, makes sense, since people might want servant droids to be more relatable).
I just find it kind of a boring reduction in storytelling possibilities, I guess.
maybe its a person, in a droid suit. With Boobs! or maybe not!
I find it a little . . . weird? . . . that there are so many new alien races in this film, judging by some of the print media. I see so many brand-new species, but little representation of our old favorites like Rodians and Sullustians and whatnot.
I think the guy on the far left is an Ithorian (though his mouth is in the wrong place)? But other than that, 100% new aliens. Kinda weird, and still kinda cool.
Is that a female C3PO with a mask?
Looks kind of like scorpio from TOR.
It looks like the feminine robot from Space Balls.
I am sure there is something interesting to be said or done with the idea of gender in a sexless construct, but this description gives me little hope that that will be the case here. Ah well.
Well, it's...been a while since I watched Space Balls.
Oh I just meant that despite taking place in space and having robots, which provide interesting possibilities in terms of ideas of gender in things that are sexless, or having a completely genderless set of "creatures" that is everywhere, it's kind of boring to go "OH HEY THEY ARE DUDES UNLESS THEY HAVE BOOBS," even if it is easy (and arguable, makes sense, since people might want servant droids to be more relatable).
I just find it kind of a boring reduction in storytelling possibilities, I guess.
maybe its a person, in a droid suit. With Boobs! or maybe not!
Maybe it doesn't matter because it has no bearing on the story they are trying to tell whether or not there's a ding-dong rattling around inside the alien/robot/whatever's cod piece. Kindof like how it doesn't matter that Captain Phasma doesn't have titty armor.
Debates are going back and forth over how true this one still holds, what with "Supreme Leader Snoke" and the Inquisitor in Rebels.
Though they would still have to explain the lack of Empire-aliens in the OT.
My hope is they drop the whole speciesist thing. Yeah we get it, the Empire is the bad guy. I kind of figured that out when they blew up a planet. There's no need to pour it on. And as a practical matter it doesn't make any sense. There apparently are an enormous number of non-human and non-human worlds as evidenced by the Senate in the PT. There is no way they would let one species just move in and take over, Deathstar or not.
As for the lack of Imperial aliens let's look at the Rebels in the OT as well. How many aliens did they have? Up until ROTJ apparently just Chewbacca (sorry tauntauns don't count). Even then only the Calamar were in any significant numbers or positions. So if you wanted to retcon something maybe most of the action in the OT just happened to take place in mostly human occupied space and more races just showed up when they felt it was threatening their areas of space.
The real reason of course for the lack of other races in the OT is that they were there mainly for window dressing. Technology and attitudes were not to the point where you could realistically have a speaking character in full on alien prosthetics and make it believable on film for the audience. Chewbacca was basically a big dog with only very basic forms of expressions. They had to use a puppet for Yoda because that was the only way you could make an alien have relatable facial expressions (that wasn't just a human with some latex on their face) and on top of that they still had to put it an environment that helped hide its limitations. Without those limitations anymore it will be easier to have aliens on either side of the conflict which I would welcome.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited October 2015
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire, because they're an asshole totalitarian government; their motto is "a boot for every neck or neck-like appendage", not "opportunity for every being". The other races didn't "let" the humans move in and take over, the Emperor figuratively said "eat my shorts" and forced everybody out of his way. After all, except for the Clone Wars (during which the totalitarian folks were placed everywhere in the government and military), the Republic had actually been at general peace for a zillion years, so nobody was really set to push back against a Republic military under Palpatine's control. The Emperor controlled the armada of basically all Republic space, because nobody really had their own armadas.
Heck, you can't even get very far into ANH before they talk about the Senate simply being dissolved and local control being handed over to local Empire officials. Sure, the Empire might struggle to hold a planet full of Wookies in a ground war, but the Empire doesn't really bother with that because they have thousands of Star Destroyers for orbital bombardment of anyone who doesn't cooperate. Politicans might be dicks, but even they would hesitate to put up a fuss against the Emperor when he might obliterate their entire constituency if they open their mouths.
I tend to be pro-speciesist, it gives the Empire more of an identity: humans are shown as the only agnostic species in the galaxy, omnipresent and without a known homeworld, but originating from the core. It would be easy to portray humans as the bedrock of galactic civilization, better-suited to rule by virtue of being there from the beginning and being the most numerous. Non-canon now, i know, but KOTOR showed that the Old Republic military was also human-dominated. They weren't fanatically anti-alien and would work with those who were useful to them, but they tended to prefer humans.
The First Order could be composed of pro-Imperial zealots, and so would have a natural human bias, but if Snoke is indeed an alien, he could just be a true believer in the cause, like the Georgian Stalin in the Russian-centric (though nominally not-bigoted) Soviet Union.
I tend to be pro-speciesist, it gives the Empire more of an identity: humans are shown as the only agnostic species in the galaxy, omnipresent and without a known homeworld, but originating from the core. It would be easy to portray humans as the bedrock of galactic civilization, better-suited to rule by virtue of being there from the beginning and being the most numerous. Non-canon now, i know, but KOTOR showed that the Old Republic military was also human-dominated. They weren't fanatically anti-alien and would work with those who were useful to them, but they tended to prefer humans.
The First Order could be composed of pro-Imperial zealots, and so would have a natural human bias, but if Snoke is indeed an alien, he could just be a true believer in the cause, like the Georgian Stalin in the Russian-centric (though nominally not-bigoted) Soviet Union.
I think its ok for the Empire to be slightly slanted towards Humans when it comes to positions of power, at its inception it was put together by an incredibly evil "Human". He is going to fill positions of high power with people he thinks he can trust and relate to (other "humans"). I hope we see more aliens in positions of power in the sequels coming up, it would make the Empire feel like it was actually more of a cohesive threat and that the rebels actually had to struggle to get support. That they weren't just an evil caricature.
Going full on racist though is just kind of dumb, there are far too many planets and civilizations for that to be a viable attitude. I mean, even Ackbar is shown to be heavily racist against Humans, and he still manages to work with them and treat them as equals (except when it comes to carrying or looking at things...).
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire...
How is it their defining thing? In what movie has that been in? In the PT aliens were the ones who designed the Deathstar and help launch the initial plot. Sidious had alien croney's at his side the whole time before and after. In fact it's a little weird that a bunch of human Imperial officers appear basically out of nowhere after order 66 as the Jedi had previously filled most of those roles. Did Palpatine ever even express dislike for other alien species? He had non-human Sith apprentices. It obviously didn't matter to him. Admittedly I am not all that up on the nefarious Sith activity outside the PT but they never seemed particularly humancentric. Why would that suddenly be a thing?
The whole speciesist thing came out of the EU and like most EU stuff they annoyingly take one data point and completely blow it out of proportion. Leia said Alderaan had no weapons that must mean they're pacifists. Didn't see aliens among the Imperials? They must all be human supremacists.
I mean I feel for the writers who had to try to pull a whole universe out of a few hours of footage, but that doesn't mean the result wasn't really silly from time to time.
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire...
How is it their defining thing? In what movie has that been in?
The good ones?
I mean, the only time we see a non-human in an Imperial craft / installation in the original trilogy, they're:
1) Attacking it
2) Infiltrating it
3) Part of Darth Vader's fringe hit squad who are clearly outside the normal chain of command
Everybody else is either explicitly human (all of the command staff and troopers with non-face-shielding helmets) or assumed to be (stormtroopers).
So, either the area in which the movies take place is the weird one-off part that human-only, or we're supposed to assume that the majority of power in the Empire is in human hands.
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire...
How is it their defining thing? In what movie has that been in?
The good ones?
I mean, the only time we see a non-human in an Imperial craft / installation in the original trilogy, they're:
1) Attacking it
2) Infiltrating it
3) Part of Darth Vader's fringe hit squad who are clearly outside the normal chain of command
Everybody else is either explicitly human (all of the command staff and troopers with non-face-shielding helmets) or assumed to be (stormtroopers).
So, either the area in which the movies take place is the weird one-off part that human-only, or we're supposed to assume that the majority of power in the Empire is in human hands.
Or they didn't have the budget to have aliens in roles that weren't required to be alien.
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire...
How is it their defining thing? In what movie has that been in?
The good ones?
I mean, the only time we see a non-human in an Imperial craft / installation in the original trilogy, they're:
1) Attacking it
2) Infiltrating it
3) Part of Darth Vader's fringe hit squad who are clearly outside the normal chain of command
Everybody else is either explicitly human (all of the command staff and troopers with non-face-shielding helmets) or assumed to be (stormtroopers).
So, either the area in which the movies take place is the weird one-off part that human-only, or we're supposed to assume that the majority of power in the Empire is in human hands.
Or they didn't have the budget to have aliens in roles that weren't required to be alien.
That may in fact be the real-world answer, but that doesn't help us interpret the films as presented. It would have been pretty trivial to repurpose some of, say, the cantina alien props to have one of the Death Star gunners be an alien. Instead, all human!
In that case, I go with option A. We only see the human element of the empire/navy. The non-human forces are off policing the non-human worlds and the Emperor is slightly racist just like Ackbar, so keeps his human troops for his most important projects. IE send the people who can only breathe methane to the methane planet rather than making custom equipment for your human troops.
The new movies will probably answer this right quick though, depending on who we see making up the remaining empire. If they are all human, sadly it is probably true.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire...
How is it their defining thing? In what movie has that been in? In the PT aliens were the ones who designed the Deathstar and help launch the initial plot. Sidious had alien croney's at his side the whole time before and after. In fact it's a little weird that a bunch of human Imperial officers appear basically out of nowhere after order 66 as the Jedi had previously filled most of those roles. Did Palpatine ever even express dislike for other alien species? He had non-human Sith apprentices. It obviously didn't matter to him. Admittedly I am not all that up on the nefarious Sith activity outside the PT but they never seemed particularly humancentric. Why would that suddenly be a thing?
The whole speciesist thing came out of the EU and like most EU stuff they annoyingly take one data point and completely blow it out of proportion. Leia said Alderaan had no weapons that must mean they're pacifists. Didn't see aliens among the Imperials? They must all be human supremacists.
I mean I feel for the writers who had to try to pull a whole universe out of a few hours of footage, but that doesn't mean the result wasn't really silly from time to time.
Actually, no.
Sidious wasn't known to even exist to the galaxy at large. Now of course Palpatine wouldn't just come out and say, "Oh, aliens are subhumans who need to be controlled." But he was human, and he had nonhumans serving him.
The leader of the Separatists was Dooku, who was known by all to be a gracious and principled gentleman (before his fall to the dark side was revealed to the Jedi, they even refused to believe the intended target of an assassination that the only person who would benefit from her death could be behind it), who was served by numerous greedy, grasping aliens, and one absolute monster. The Senate was a collection of mostly-nonhuman species who nonetheless elected and deferred and granted ever more power to a human ruler. The clones were, while clones and treated as disposable soldiers, human clones--the face of the Republic Army was human--and even the humanoid Separatist droids didn't really resemble humans,with their odd-shaded heads and torsos, and a lot of Separatist droids were very clearly nonhuman. And while the clones made good soldiers, there's nothing "sudden" about the ships revealed to be crewed by non-clone humans at the end of Revenge of the Sith--it's been five years since Attack.
Meanwhile, in the Republic, humans are most frequently shown in positions of authority, and aliens are shown in positions of servitude or subservience. There are basically two exceptions: criminals and the Jedi. A large proportion of Jedi weren't human. Look at what happens during Order 66--of all the Jedi shown killed during the big montage, not counting the kids, none are human. The only "loyal" Jedi was a human.
And in the OT, the entire Empire has no nonhumans within it (that we see; it's possible that some stormtroopers under their helmets were humanoid nonhumans). An Imperial officer refers to Chewie as a "thing". The only nonhumans working directly for the Empire are the bounty hunters, whom an officer refers to as "scum" (though in fairness not all of them were nonhuman). All of Palpatine's advisors in RotJ? Humans. The Alliance, meanwhile, though it doesn't have aliens in every position, has a sizable number of nonhuman officers, including the guy in charge of he whole shebang.
This does not mean there were not sympathizers and collaborators working with the Empire, nor that the Alliance is necessarily a haven of egalitarianism. But the implications are clear.
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
The clear visual style of the army was meant to encourage uniformity, compared to the ragtag diversity of the alliance. It makes less sense to think that the Empire we aren't shown has a lot of visible variation when that would undermine how they were designed.
I agree in the Doylist case that if they had really intended the Empire to be diverse, they could have easily made a few roles, like Piett or Jerjerrod into an alien. Especially in the later movies when budget was less of an issue (think of Bossk in ESB, they built a Trandoshan puppet for one scene).
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I can't say I see any reason whatsoever for the Empire being to stop being speciest. It's one of the defining bits about the Empire...
How is it their defining thing? In what movie has that been in?
The good ones?
I mean, the only time we see a non-human in an Imperial craft / installation in the original trilogy, they're:
1) Attacking it
2) Infiltrating it
3) Part of Darth Vader's fringe hit squad who are clearly outside the normal chain of command
Everybody else is either explicitly human (all of the command staff and troopers with non-face-shielding helmets) or assumed to be (stormtroopers).
So, either the area in which the movies take place is the weird one-off part that human-only, or we're supposed to assume that the majority of power in the Empire is in human hands.
Or they didn't have the budget to have aliens in roles that weren't required to be alien.
That may in fact be the real-world answer, but that doesn't help us interpret the films as presented. It would have been pretty trivial to repurpose some of, say, the cantina alien props to have one of the Death Star gunners be an alien. Instead, all human!
To me it's more of a suspension of disbelief. I just consciously don't take the time to reconcile these things, and I'll readily accept whatever the next movie throws at me. It's pretty much the only way I can still enjoy the original trilogy; by willfully ignoring the incongruities added by the prequels.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Neat lil' inference from one of the Lego sets about Episode VII.
Captain Phasma's minifig doesn't have a head, just a plain black brick. Likewise, Kylo Ren has a helmet piece, and his 'head' is just another mask. Masks on masks.
So neither of them are likely removing their helmets throughout the movie. Kinda love that.
Neat lil' inference from one of the Lego sets about Episode VII.
Captain Phasma's minifig doesn't have a head, just a plain black brick. Likewise, Kylo Ren has a helmet piece, and his 'head' is just another mask. Masks on masks.
So neither of them are likely removing their helmets throughout the movie. Kinda love that.
Phasma is a Dark Trooper. Calling it now.
Alternatively they just didn't want to spoil some secret about their faces that is in the movie.
Neat lil' inference from one of the Lego sets about Episode VII.
Captain Phasma's minifig doesn't have a head, just a plain black brick. Likewise, Kylo Ren has a helmet piece, and his 'head' is just another mask. Masks on masks.
So neither of them are likely removing their helmets throughout the movie. Kinda love that.
Far off theory that is totally wrong, but just had a weird thought
Ok, they've been really tight lipped on spoilers in general for the new movie, We haven't seen Luke yet , we may have seen his hand, and now all promotional materials are hiding Phasma and Ren's faces, could one of them BE Luke?
Neat lil' inference from one of the Lego sets about Episode VII.
Captain Phasma's minifig doesn't have a head, just a plain black brick. Likewise, Kylo Ren has a helmet piece, and his 'head' is just another mask. Masks on masks.
So neither of them are likely removing their helmets throughout the movie. Kinda love that.
Far off theory that is totally wrong, but just had a weird thought
Ok, they've been really tight lipped on spoilers in general for the new movie, We haven't seen Luke yet , we may have seen his hand, and now all promotional materials are hiding Phasma and Ren's faces, could one of them BE Luke?
Luke is a little short for a Chrome Trooper.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Hehe, I didn't have a theory so much as thinking
it just means they're never unmasked in the movie. It wouldn't be so much a 'mystery' thing as making em more inhuman. There's probably a temptation to have the Stormtrooper leader be unmasked and make a big deal of their unique identity. If Phasma keeps the helmet on the whole time, she's very much Captain Stormtrooper, y'know?
Kylo Ren, I figure his face or lack thereof is more mystery related. I could see his identity being a plot point.
Neat lil' inference from one of the Lego sets about Episode VII.
Captain Phasma's minifig doesn't have a head, just a plain black brick. Likewise, Kylo Ren has a helmet piece, and his 'head' is just another mask. Masks on masks.
So neither of them are likely removing their helmets throughout the movie. Kinda love that.
Far off theory that is totally wrong, but just had a weird thought
Ok, they've been really tight lipped on spoilers in general for the new movie, We haven't seen Luke yet , we may have seen his hand, and now all promotional materials are hiding Phasma and Ren's faces, could one of them BE Luke?
Look, if we can go three movies with the main bad guy in a mask(on top of every mook in the entire empire), I think we can go one movie with two people in masks.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Kylo Ren's face was shown in a promotional shot for some magazine. Pretty sure they aren't making some mystery out of how he looks.
Kylo Ren's face was shown in a promotional shot for some magazine. Pretty sure they aren't making some mystery out of how he looks.
oh ya forgot that, and ya I knew I was far fetched.
But, while I don't think for any major crazy twist reasons , I do like how the Star Wars promotional stuff has been fairly minimal, that's been my one complaint with Marvel, by the time a Marvel movie is out, I've seen about 2/3rd's of it, because I have no resistance ( and it's in every single news feed)
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire. The lone exception, Princess Leia, is not only not a military leader but a civilian one, she seems to owe her position a great deal to the fact that the Empire--namely, the Imperial Senate--was willing to incorporate a woman to its own ranks over a very important planet. The fact that they chose an eighteen year old princess is full of all kinds of problems, but that aside, Leia is a Rebel leader because she was an Imperial leader.
And that makes sense: the Rebellion is made up of disaffected Imperial officials, officers and soldiers, no? If bigotry is cultural, it's going to be transferred over to the political culture of the Rebellion, at least initially (and probably in the long term in a varying manner). The war we see in these original films is not an alien rebellion against the human establishments, it's a clique of the political elite going against the dominant clique in power, practically all of them human. A very tall, furry but otherwise hired gun doesn't really change that any more than a lizard hired gun who doesn't wear shoes does.
ROTJ is clearly intended to fix this issue, and does so by...confining all the Rebel nonhuman officers to a class of ship (and Lando's co-pilot). But one is a flag officer, which is a high position in the navy, and the ship's themselves are very crucial to the war effort (and not, for example, cargo haulers). The highest civilian leader, in any case, is a woman as well (she is in one scene, but we're limited by the medium). So it's at least a little more adequate an explanation. But watching ANH for the first time, it's perfectly naturally to think, "Huh, what do you know, a racist-ass group of rebels fighting against a racist-ass Empire." Technically, it may be in the Empire's favor in this area, since after all, we can't ascertain for certain every single stormtrooper is human, or for that matter, light-skinned, but we certainly can for every single Rebel officer, soldier and sailor since we can see their faces.
Personally, the first time I saw Star Wars, without knowing anything about the films (and just a tiny amount from the game TIE Fighter), I thought Darth Vader was black because I knew his voice actor was black (and I hadn't seen The Empire Strikes Back yet). So I considered that the Empire's "top dragon" (or at least, unpleasant high-ranking magical jerk who threatens people with violence) was black, whereas the entire Rebellion, top to bottom, was white.
The EW makes this even more complicated. Without dwelling much, the Empire is supposed to be sexist, because...we're told so. The Rebels have Princess Leia, another woman who is their Chief Executive, and...that's it. Forever it seems. Eventually they get some female pilots, courtesy of X-Wing. Meanwhile, the Empire has, to count: a number of female pilots across multiple books/games, a number of female officers in numerous comics and books, at least one female flag officer (an admiral), the longstanding chief of the powerful intelligence branch who later becomes Emperor in her own right (Isard), multiple female dark Jedi. Does this mean the Empire isn't sexist? No, certainly not the Imperial military anyway--plenty of military forces have deep-ingrained sexism even while integrating women. Ours does today. It just means that the Rebel military is certainly sexist, and it's laughable to assume to the contrary.
All that's getting wiped away, in a sense, but we've got another weird example with the new books. The Empire is supposed to be homophobic. Okay, that makes plenty of sense--many authoritarian and militarized societies are (though as we know, homophobia isn't the exclusive domain of authoritarian states). So with the new "canon" books, the first openly gay character is....a high-ranking Imperial governor (Moff Mors), an open lesbian, whom the Emperor describes as "...lazy, hedonistic, nihilistic, but she is not and never will be a traitor to the Empire." In other words, her sexuality is openly common knowledge, at the very least to the supposed homophobe-in-chief, who thinks said governor is completely and utterly loyal nonetheless. The character, apparently, mostly just laments the death of her wife in the early days of the Empire in a transport accident, and likes to surround herself with your classic Star Wars alien babes as decor.
And on the other side, the Rebellion gets an openly homosexual character--via a defection from the Empire (a high-ranking Imperial officer who leaves...because of an attack of conscious, rather than any apparent persecution). So there, I guess.
In other words, even today, the moral positions and high-ground of Star Wars aren't terribly well thought-out at times. Of course, what do we expect? It's pulp science-fiction where space wizards face off against a cartoony personification of all evil in riding boots.
EDIT: Hahah, I get it now--Captain Purina Cat Chow. Yeah, those are funny looking rank badges.
Synthesis on
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire.
Admiral Ackbar and all the Mon Cal officers, the Dressellians, Lando Calrissian, Nien Nunb, a number of pilots at Endor (in order to be a pilot, you have to be an officer), Chewie (if Han is a general, Chewie's gotta at least be a 1st lieutenant or something), Leia (because non-military personnel go on commando strike missions all the time OH WAIT)...
Also, Mon Mothma, who while not a military commander is the head of the Alliance. Soooo, nope.
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire.
Admiral Ackbar and all the Mon Cal officers, the Dressellians, Lando Calrissian, Nien Nunb, a number of pilots at Endor (in order to be a pilot, you have to be an officer), Chewie (if Han is a general, Chewie's gotta at least be a 1st lieutenant or something), Leia (because non-military personnel go on commando strike missions all the time OH WAIT)...
Also, Mon Mothma, who while not a military commander is the head of the Alliance. Soooo, nope.
Did you...read that part? In case I'm not being clear, that means A New Hope and The Empire Strike Back (I guess that could be interpeted as the first two prequels).
Soooooooo, yup.
Like, seriously, I have a whole paragraph about ROTJ right below.
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire.
Admiral Ackbar and all the Mon Cal officers, the Dressellians, Lando Calrissian, Nien Nunb, a number of pilots at Endor (in order to be a pilot, you have to be an officer), Chewie (if Han is a general, Chewie's gotta at least be a 1st lieutenant or something), Leia (because non-military personnel go on commando strike missions all the time OH WAIT)...
Also, Mon Mothma, who while not a military commander is the head of the Alliance. Soooo, nope.
Chewie didn't even get a medal for helping to blow up the deathstar. I doubt he got any rank.
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire. The lone exception, Princess Leia, is not only not a military leader but a civilian one, she seems to owe her position a great deal to the fact that the Empire--namely, the Imperial Senate--was willing to incorporate a woman to its own ranks over a very important planet. The fact that they chose an eighteen year old princess is full of all kinds of problems, but that aside, Leia is a Rebel leader because she was an Imperial leader.
And that makes sense: the Rebellion is made up of disaffected Imperial officials, officers and soldiers, no? If bigotry is cultural, it's going to be transferred over to the political culture of the Rebellion, at least initially (and probably in the long term in a varying manner). The war we see in these original films is not an alien rebellion against the human establishments, it's a clique of the political elite going against the dominant clique in power, practically all of them human. A very tall, furry but otherwise hired gun doesn't really change that any more than a lizard hired gun who doesn't wear shoes does.
ROTJ is clearly intended to fix this issue, and does so by...confining all the Rebel nonhuman officers to a class of ship (and Lando's co-pilot). But one is a flag officer, which is a high position in the navy, and the ship's themselves are very crucial to the war effort (and not, for example, cargo haulers). The highest civilian leader, in any case, is a woman as well (she is in one scene, but we're limited by the medium). So it's at least a little more adequate an explanation. But watching ANH for the first time, it's perfectly naturally to think, "Huh, what do you know, a racist-ass group of rebels fighting against a racist-ass Empire." Technically, it may be in the Empire's favor in this area, since after all, we can't ascertain for certain every single stormtrooper is human, or for that matter, light-skinned, but we certainly can for every single Rebel officer, soldier and sailor since we can see their faces.
Personally, the first time I saw Star Wars, without knowing anything about the films (and just a tiny amount from the game TIE Fighter), I thought Darth Vader was black because I knew his voice actor was black (and I hadn't seen The Empire Strikes Back yet). So I considered that the Empire's "top dragon" (or at least, unpleasant high-ranking magical jerk who threatens people with violence) was black, whereas the entire Rebellion, top to bottom, was white.
The EW makes this even more complicated. Without dwelling much, the Empire is supposed to be sexist, because...we're told so. The Rebels have Princess Leia, another woman who is their Chief Executive, and...that's it. Forever it seems. Eventually they get some female pilots, courtesy of X-Wing. Meanwhile, the Empire has, to count: a number of female pilots across multiple books/games, a number of female officers in numerous comics and books, at least one female flag officer (an admiral), the longstanding chief of the powerful intelligence branch who later becomes Emperor in her own right (Isard), multiple female dark Jedi. Does this mean the Empire isn't sexist? No, certainly not the Imperial military anyway--plenty of military forces have deep-ingrained sexism even while integrating women. Ours does today. It just means that the Rebel military is certainly sexist, and it's laughable to assume to the contrary.
All that's getting wiped away, in a sense, but we've got another weird example with the new books. The Empire is supposed to be homophobic. Okay, that makes plenty of sense--many authoritarian and militarized societies are (though as we know, homophobia isn't the exclusive domain of authoritarian states). So with the new "canon" books, the first openly gay character is....a high-ranking Imperial governor (Moff Mors), an open lesbian, whom the Emperor describes as "...lazy, hedonistic, nihilistic, but she is not and never will be a traitor to the Empire." In other words, her sexuality is openly common knowledge, at the very least to the supposed homophobe-in-chief, who thinks said governor is completely and utterly loyal nonetheless. The character, apparently, mostly just laments the death of her wife in the early days of the Empire in a transport accident, and likes to surround herself with your classic Star Wars alien babes as decor.
And on the other side, the Rebellion gets an openly homosexual character--via a defection from the Empire (a high-ranking Imperial officer who leaves...because of an attack of conscious, rather than any apparent persecution). So there, I guess.
In other words, even today, the moral positions and high-ground of Star Wars aren't terribly well thought-out at times. Of course, what do we expect? It's pulp science-fiction where space wizards face off against a cartoony personification of all evil in riding boots.
EDIT: Hahah, I get it now--Captain Purina Cat Chow. Yeah, those are funny looking rank badges.
In the OT the Rebels aren't lead by Leia, she's a high ranking officer. They are lead by Mon Mothra, a woman. There are alien members in the Rebel Alliance, Luke sees them in A New Hope (he has a scene where he stumbles over one's foot before the meeting) they don't have major roles - aside from Ackbar. Who become an icon in Star Wars, and became one of the greatest generals ever in the Legends EU. That's a tremendous edge over the Empire in the OT, in recruiting aliens and women. Legends EU also made the Empire more open to aliens and women, though they did so reluctantly. 9 times out of 10 if an Imperial appeared they were going to white human males. There was the Chiss, who kept to themselves and of course Thrawn - who was the biggest exception in the Empire, during Palpatine's reign he was the only alien to become a Grand Admiral (and he was exiled to the Unknown Regions), and when the Imperials did appear in the EU they were mostly humans. They did, however, work with aliens occasionally - they weren't as open to aliens in their organization to any degree the Rebels were.
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire. The lone exception, Princess Leia, is not only not a military leader but a civilian one, she seems to owe her position a great deal to the fact that the Empire--namely, the Imperial Senate--was willing to incorporate a woman to its own ranks over a very important planet. The fact that they chose an eighteen year old princess is full of all kinds of problems, but that aside, Leia is a Rebel leader because she was an Imperial leader.
And that makes sense: the Rebellion is made up of disaffected Imperial officials, officers and soldiers, no? If bigotry is cultural, it's going to be transferred over to the political culture of the Rebellion, at least initially (and probably in the long term in a varying manner). The war we see in these original films is not an alien rebellion against the human establishments, it's a clique of the political elite going against the dominant clique in power, practically all of them human. A very tall, furry but otherwise hired gun doesn't really change that any more than a lizard hired gun who doesn't wear shoes does.
ROTJ is clearly intended to fix this issue, and does so by...confining all the Rebel nonhuman officers to a class of ship (and Lando's co-pilot). But one is a flag officer, which is a high position in the navy, and the ship's themselves are very crucial to the war effort (and not, for example, cargo haulers). The highest civilian leader, in any case, is a woman as well (she is in one scene, but we're limited by the medium). So it's at least a little more adequate an explanation. But watching ANH for the first time, it's perfectly naturally to think, "Huh, what do you know, a racist-ass group of rebels fighting against a racist-ass Empire." Technically, it may be in the Empire's favor in this area, since after all, we can't ascertain for certain every single stormtrooper is human, or for that matter, light-skinned, but we certainly can for every single Rebel officer, soldier and sailor since we can see their faces.
Personally, the first time I saw Star Wars, without knowing anything about the films (and just a tiny amount from the game TIE Fighter), I thought Darth Vader was black because I knew his voice actor was black (and I hadn't seen The Empire Strikes Back yet). So I considered that the Empire's "top dragon" (or at least, unpleasant high-ranking magical jerk who threatens people with violence) was black, whereas the entire Rebellion, top to bottom, was white.
The EW makes this even more complicated. Without dwelling much, the Empire is supposed to be sexist, because...we're told so. The Rebels have Princess Leia, another woman who is their Chief Executive, and...that's it. Forever it seems. Eventually they get some female pilots, courtesy of X-Wing. Meanwhile, the Empire has, to count: a number of female pilots across multiple books/games, a number of female officers in numerous comics and books, at least one female flag officer (an admiral), the longstanding chief of the powerful intelligence branch who later becomes Emperor in her own right (Isard), multiple female dark Jedi. Does this mean the Empire isn't sexist? No, certainly not the Imperial military anyway--plenty of military forces have deep-ingrained sexism even while integrating women. Ours does today. It just means that the Rebel military is certainly sexist, and it's laughable to assume to the contrary.
All that's getting wiped away, in a sense, but we've got another weird example with the new books. The Empire is supposed to be homophobic. Okay, that makes plenty of sense--many authoritarian and militarized societies are (though as we know, homophobia isn't the exclusive domain of authoritarian states). So with the new "canon" books, the first openly gay character is....a high-ranking Imperial governor (Moff Mors), an open lesbian, whom the Emperor describes as "...lazy, hedonistic, nihilistic, but she is not and never will be a traitor to the Empire." In other words, her sexuality is openly common knowledge, at the very least to the supposed homophobe-in-chief, who thinks said governor is completely and utterly loyal nonetheless. The character, apparently, mostly just laments the death of her wife in the early days of the Empire in a transport accident, and likes to surround herself with your classic Star Wars alien babes as decor.
And on the other side, the Rebellion gets an openly homosexual character--via a defection from the Empire (a high-ranking Imperial officer who leaves...because of an attack of conscious, rather than any apparent persecution). So there, I guess.
In other words, even today, the moral positions and high-ground of Star Wars aren't terribly well thought-out at times. Of course, what do we expect? It's pulp science-fiction where space wizards face off against a cartoony personification of all evil in riding boots.
EDIT: Hahah, I get it now--Captain Purina Cat Chow. Yeah, those are funny looking rank badges.
In the OT the Rebels aren't lead by Leia, she's a high ranking officer. They are lead by Mon Mothra, a woman. There are alien members in the Rebel Alliance, Luke sees them in A New Hope (he has a scene where he stumbles over one's foot before the meeting) they don't have major roles - aside from Ackbar. Who become an icon in Star Wars, and became one of the greatest generals ever in the Legends EU. That's a tremendous edge over the Empire in the OT, in recruiting aliens and women. Legends EU also made the Empire more open to aliens and women, though they did so reluctantly. 9 times out of 10 if an Imperial appeared they were going to white human males. There was the Chiss, who kept to themselves and of course Thrawn - who was the biggest exception in the Empire, during Palpatine's reign he was the only alien to become a Grand Admiral (and he was exiled to the Unknown Regions), and when the Imperials did appear in the EU they were mostly humans. They did, however, work with aliens occasionally - they weren't as open to aliens in their organization to any degree the Rebels were.
I already accounted for Mon Mothma (she is the chief executive, isn't she?--not Princess Leia, I can see how my wording might be confusing). I wasn't aware of Princess Leia having a military rank, I thought she was a purely civilian leader (in any case, that's not a huge change--how long was it before we see a female admiral among the Rebels?). Even accounting for both, it's pretty clear that the Rebel military is sexist (and furthermore, that it's not considered particularly unusual either).
Of course, the whole point of above isn't that the Imperial military isn't sexist, it's that the notion that the Rebel military it spawned (inadvertently) is obviously a sexist institution too. The 'reset' might change that, but the old material doesn't.
EDIT: Also, I don't remember that scene in ANH either, so I'll take your word for it.
Jango was considered one of the best bounty hunters of his time, it makes sense that he was chosen to be the basis of the clones. Given that even a wookies tremendous strength doesn't protect you from a blaster, it makes sense to choose a base that is easy to technologically add to to do the tasks you need. The human form is the "average" in the galaxy, they don't have the strength of the stronger species or the senses of others, but they can live in almost any environment, communicate with most species, and are easy to equip.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire.
Admiral Ackbar and all the Mon Cal officers, the Dressellians, Lando Calrissian, Nien Nunb, a number of pilots at Endor (in order to be a pilot, you have to be an officer), Chewie (if Han is a general, Chewie's gotta at least be a 1st lieutenant or something), Leia (because non-military personnel go on commando strike missions all the time OH WAIT)...
Also, Mon Mothma, who while not a military commander is the head of the Alliance. Soooo, nope.
Chewie didn't even get a medal for helping to blow up the deathstar. I doubt he got any rank.
Yeah, I haven't seen anything to suggest Chewbacca got a military commission.
Which is perfectly reasonable. No matter how much the audience loves him, or how much he might believe in the Rebel cause, he's the first-mate of a former drug and gun runner, right? Even with ~4 years transpiring, it's not strange that Chewbacca never got an officer's commission. It's that they made the hired gun he's following, a general (if only to send down to go blow up a shield generator on a moon that orbits no planet). I think even the audience would understand there's at least one military rank between "(brigadier) general" and "captain (of a junky smuggling ship". The fact that both he and Lando got one kind of suggests they were basically just giving them to whoever asked.
Or it's bad writing. Whatever.
Synthesis on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Wait the foot stumble thing. Aren't you thinking of Alex in the Last Starfighter when he goes into the briefing? I do not remember that in A New Hope at all.
Wait the foot stumble thing. Aren't you thinking of Alex in the Last Starfighter when he goes into the briefing? I do not remember that in A New Hope at all.
Well, timspork officially wins the "perfect total recall" award.
Get your ass to Mars!
Sic transit gloria mundi.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
By today's standards, Star Wars ANH is, overall, pretty racist and sexist. But consider that the civil rights act has been signed into law barely 10 years before. When George was writing Star Wars it was considered completely socially acceptable to beat a woman who was taking out of line. Blacks were still referred to as Negroes in official government communications. By the standards of the 1970s, Star Wars was amazingly enlightened by casting a woman in a roll of agency and a black man voicing a main character.
Posts
maybe its a person, in a droid suit. With Boobs! or maybe not!
http://steamcommunity.com/id/BretonBrawler
Maybe it doesn't matter because it has no bearing on the story they are trying to tell whether or not there's a ding-dong rattling around inside the alien/robot/whatever's cod piece. Kindof like how it doesn't matter that Captain Phasma doesn't have titty armor.
As for the lack of Imperial aliens let's look at the Rebels in the OT as well. How many aliens did they have? Up until ROTJ apparently just Chewbacca (sorry tauntauns don't count). Even then only the Calamar were in any significant numbers or positions. So if you wanted to retcon something maybe most of the action in the OT just happened to take place in mostly human occupied space and more races just showed up when they felt it was threatening their areas of space.
The real reason of course for the lack of other races in the OT is that they were there mainly for window dressing. Technology and attitudes were not to the point where you could realistically have a speaking character in full on alien prosthetics and make it believable on film for the audience. Chewbacca was basically a big dog with only very basic forms of expressions. They had to use a puppet for Yoda because that was the only way you could make an alien have relatable facial expressions (that wasn't just a human with some latex on their face) and on top of that they still had to put it an environment that helped hide its limitations. Without those limitations anymore it will be easier to have aliens on either side of the conflict which I would welcome.
Heck, you can't even get very far into ANH before they talk about the Senate simply being dissolved and local control being handed over to local Empire officials. Sure, the Empire might struggle to hold a planet full of Wookies in a ground war, but the Empire doesn't really bother with that because they have thousands of Star Destroyers for orbital bombardment of anyone who doesn't cooperate. Politicans might be dicks, but even they would hesitate to put up a fuss against the Emperor when he might obliterate their entire constituency if they open their mouths.
The First Order could be composed of pro-Imperial zealots, and so would have a natural human bias, but if Snoke is indeed an alien, he could just be a true believer in the cause, like the Georgian Stalin in the Russian-centric (though nominally not-bigoted) Soviet Union.
I think its ok for the Empire to be slightly slanted towards Humans when it comes to positions of power, at its inception it was put together by an incredibly evil "Human". He is going to fill positions of high power with people he thinks he can trust and relate to (other "humans"). I hope we see more aliens in positions of power in the sequels coming up, it would make the Empire feel like it was actually more of a cohesive threat and that the rebels actually had to struggle to get support. That they weren't just an evil caricature.
Going full on racist though is just kind of dumb, there are far too many planets and civilizations for that to be a viable attitude. I mean, even Ackbar is shown to be heavily racist against Humans, and he still manages to work with them and treat them as equals (except when it comes to carrying or looking at things...).
The whole speciesist thing came out of the EU and like most EU stuff they annoyingly take one data point and completely blow it out of proportion. Leia said Alderaan had no weapons that must mean they're pacifists. Didn't see aliens among the Imperials? They must all be human supremacists.
I mean I feel for the writers who had to try to pull a whole universe out of a few hours of footage, but that doesn't mean the result wasn't really silly from time to time.
The good ones?
I mean, the only time we see a non-human in an Imperial craft / installation in the original trilogy, they're:
1) Attacking it
2) Infiltrating it
3) Part of Darth Vader's fringe hit squad who are clearly outside the normal chain of command
Everybody else is either explicitly human (all of the command staff and troopers with non-face-shielding helmets) or assumed to be (stormtroopers).
So, either the area in which the movies take place is the weird one-off part that human-only, or we're supposed to assume that the majority of power in the Empire is in human hands.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Or they didn't have the budget to have aliens in roles that weren't required to be alien.
That may in fact be the real-world answer, but that doesn't help us interpret the films as presented. It would have been pretty trivial to repurpose some of, say, the cantina alien props to have one of the Death Star gunners be an alien. Instead, all human!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
The new movies will probably answer this right quick though, depending on who we see making up the remaining empire. If they are all human, sadly it is probably true.
Actually, no.
Sidious wasn't known to even exist to the galaxy at large. Now of course Palpatine wouldn't just come out and say, "Oh, aliens are subhumans who need to be controlled." But he was human, and he had nonhumans serving him.
The leader of the Separatists was Dooku, who was known by all to be a gracious and principled gentleman (before his fall to the dark side was revealed to the Jedi, they even refused to believe the intended target of an assassination that the only person who would benefit from her death could be behind it), who was served by numerous greedy, grasping aliens, and one absolute monster. The Senate was a collection of mostly-nonhuman species who nonetheless elected and deferred and granted ever more power to a human ruler. The clones were, while clones and treated as disposable soldiers, human clones--the face of the Republic Army was human--and even the humanoid Separatist droids didn't really resemble humans,with their odd-shaded heads and torsos, and a lot of Separatist droids were very clearly nonhuman. And while the clones made good soldiers, there's nothing "sudden" about the ships revealed to be crewed by non-clone humans at the end of Revenge of the Sith--it's been five years since Attack.
Meanwhile, in the Republic, humans are most frequently shown in positions of authority, and aliens are shown in positions of servitude or subservience. There are basically two exceptions: criminals and the Jedi. A large proportion of Jedi weren't human. Look at what happens during Order 66--of all the Jedi shown killed during the big montage, not counting the kids, none are human. The only "loyal" Jedi was a human.
And in the OT, the entire Empire has no nonhumans within it (that we see; it's possible that some stormtroopers under their helmets were humanoid nonhumans). An Imperial officer refers to Chewie as a "thing". The only nonhumans working directly for the Empire are the bounty hunters, whom an officer refers to as "scum" (though in fairness not all of them were nonhuman). All of Palpatine's advisors in RotJ? Humans. The Alliance, meanwhile, though it doesn't have aliens in every position, has a sizable number of nonhuman officers, including the guy in charge of he whole shebang.
This does not mean there were not sympathizers and collaborators working with the Empire, nor that the Alliance is necessarily a haven of egalitarianism. But the implications are clear.
The second most powerful man in republic throughout the entire prequel was an alien (the twiliek looking guy with spikes on the end of the tentacles). I forget if he was ever shown in the OT, I doubt it though.
The Wookies can easily be viewed as having been made an example of, they fought back against order66 to save Yoda and continued to rebel. They were punished for that, not because they were alien.
e:
Also the rebels were still actually led by humans. Mothma was technically in charge of the whole thing, and you had Captain PurinaChow on Hoth. Ackbar was their fleet admiral though.
I agree in the Doylist case that if they had really intended the Empire to be diverse, they could have easily made a few roles, like Piett or Jerjerrod into an alien. Especially in the later movies when budget was less of an issue (think of Bossk in ESB, they built a Trandoshan puppet for one scene).
That. Damned. Medal.
Every time I watch the movie. EVERY TIME.
To me it's more of a suspension of disbelief. I just consciously don't take the time to reconcile these things, and I'll readily accept whatever the next movie throws at me. It's pretty much the only way I can still enjoy the original trilogy; by willfully ignoring the incongruities added by the prequels.
So neither of them are likely removing their helmets throughout the movie. Kinda love that.
Alternatively they just didn't want to spoil some secret about their faces that is in the movie.
Far off theory that is totally wrong, but just had a weird thought
Kylo Ren, I figure his face or lack thereof is more mystery related. I could see his identity being a plot point.
oh ya forgot that, and ya I knew I was far fetched.
But, while I don't think for any major crazy twist reasons , I do like how the Star Wars promotional stuff has been fairly minimal, that's been my one complaint with Marvel, by the time a Marvel movie is out, I've seen about 2/3rd's of it, because I have no resistance ( and it's in every single news feed)
Sounds like a lead time issue then.
I have a theory that basing a major political position on a middling officer in charge of one of a few thousand detention blocks on a moon-size space station is generally pretty laughable, but that's neither here nor there.
The Empire--and in fact, the Rebel Alliance of the first two films--is by all appearances bigoted as all hell. Every single Rebel officer is a white male, just like that of the Empire. The lone exception, Princess Leia, is not only not a military leader but a civilian one, she seems to owe her position a great deal to the fact that the Empire--namely, the Imperial Senate--was willing to incorporate a woman to its own ranks over a very important planet. The fact that they chose an eighteen year old princess is full of all kinds of problems, but that aside, Leia is a Rebel leader because she was an Imperial leader.
And that makes sense: the Rebellion is made up of disaffected Imperial officials, officers and soldiers, no? If bigotry is cultural, it's going to be transferred over to the political culture of the Rebellion, at least initially (and probably in the long term in a varying manner). The war we see in these original films is not an alien rebellion against the human establishments, it's a clique of the political elite going against the dominant clique in power, practically all of them human. A very tall, furry but otherwise hired gun doesn't really change that any more than a lizard hired gun who doesn't wear shoes does.
ROTJ is clearly intended to fix this issue, and does so by...confining all the Rebel nonhuman officers to a class of ship (and Lando's co-pilot). But one is a flag officer, which is a high position in the navy, and the ship's themselves are very crucial to the war effort (and not, for example, cargo haulers). The highest civilian leader, in any case, is a woman as well (she is in one scene, but we're limited by the medium). So it's at least a little more adequate an explanation. But watching ANH for the first time, it's perfectly naturally to think, "Huh, what do you know, a racist-ass group of rebels fighting against a racist-ass Empire." Technically, it may be in the Empire's favor in this area, since after all, we can't ascertain for certain every single stormtrooper is human, or for that matter, light-skinned, but we certainly can for every single Rebel officer, soldier and sailor since we can see their faces.
Personally, the first time I saw Star Wars, without knowing anything about the films (and just a tiny amount from the game TIE Fighter), I thought Darth Vader was black because I knew his voice actor was black (and I hadn't seen The Empire Strikes Back yet). So I considered that the Empire's "top dragon" (or at least, unpleasant high-ranking magical jerk who threatens people with violence) was black, whereas the entire Rebellion, top to bottom, was white.
The EW makes this even more complicated. Without dwelling much, the Empire is supposed to be sexist, because...we're told so. The Rebels have Princess Leia, another woman who is their Chief Executive, and...that's it. Forever it seems. Eventually they get some female pilots, courtesy of X-Wing. Meanwhile, the Empire has, to count: a number of female pilots across multiple books/games, a number of female officers in numerous comics and books, at least one female flag officer (an admiral), the longstanding chief of the powerful intelligence branch who later becomes Emperor in her own right (Isard), multiple female dark Jedi. Does this mean the Empire isn't sexist? No, certainly not the Imperial military anyway--plenty of military forces have deep-ingrained sexism even while integrating women. Ours does today. It just means that the Rebel military is certainly sexist, and it's laughable to assume to the contrary.
All that's getting wiped away, in a sense, but we've got another weird example with the new books. The Empire is supposed to be homophobic. Okay, that makes plenty of sense--many authoritarian and militarized societies are (though as we know, homophobia isn't the exclusive domain of authoritarian states). So with the new "canon" books, the first openly gay character is....a high-ranking Imperial governor (Moff Mors), an open lesbian, whom the Emperor describes as "...lazy, hedonistic, nihilistic, but she is not and never will be a traitor to the Empire." In other words, her sexuality is openly common knowledge, at the very least to the supposed homophobe-in-chief, who thinks said governor is completely and utterly loyal nonetheless. The character, apparently, mostly just laments the death of her wife in the early days of the Empire in a transport accident, and likes to surround herself with your classic Star Wars alien babes as decor.
And on the other side, the Rebellion gets an openly homosexual character--via a defection from the Empire (a high-ranking Imperial officer who leaves...because of an attack of conscious, rather than any apparent persecution). So there, I guess.
In other words, even today, the moral positions and high-ground of Star Wars aren't terribly well thought-out at times. Of course, what do we expect? It's pulp science-fiction where space wizards face off against a cartoony personification of all evil in riding boots.
EDIT: Hahah, I get it now--Captain Purina Cat Chow. Yeah, those are funny looking rank badges.
Admiral Ackbar and all the Mon Cal officers, the Dressellians, Lando Calrissian, Nien Nunb, a number of pilots at Endor (in order to be a pilot, you have to be an officer), Chewie (if Han is a general, Chewie's gotta at least be a 1st lieutenant or something), Leia (because non-military personnel go on commando strike missions all the time OH WAIT)...
Also, Mon Mothma, who while not a military commander is the head of the Alliance. Soooo, nope.
Did you...read that part? In case I'm not being clear, that means A New Hope and The Empire Strike Back (I guess that could be interpeted as the first two prequels).
Soooooooo, yup.
Like, seriously, I have a whole paragraph about ROTJ right below.
Chewie didn't even get a medal for helping to blow up the deathstar. I doubt he got any rank.
In the OT the Rebels aren't lead by Leia, she's a high ranking officer. They are lead by Mon Mothra, a woman. There are alien members in the Rebel Alliance, Luke sees them in A New Hope (he has a scene where he stumbles over one's foot before the meeting) they don't have major roles - aside from Ackbar. Who become an icon in Star Wars, and became one of the greatest generals ever in the Legends EU. That's a tremendous edge over the Empire in the OT, in recruiting aliens and women. Legends EU also made the Empire more open to aliens and women, though they did so reluctantly. 9 times out of 10 if an Imperial appeared they were going to white human males. There was the Chiss, who kept to themselves and of course Thrawn - who was the biggest exception in the Empire, during Palpatine's reign he was the only alien to become a Grand Admiral (and he was exiled to the Unknown Regions), and when the Imperials did appear in the EU they were mostly humans. They did, however, work with aliens occasionally - they weren't as open to aliens in their organization to any degree the Rebels were.
I already accounted for Mon Mothma (she is the chief executive, isn't she?--not Princess Leia, I can see how my wording might be confusing). I wasn't aware of Princess Leia having a military rank, I thought she was a purely civilian leader (in any case, that's not a huge change--how long was it before we see a female admiral among the Rebels?). Even accounting for both, it's pretty clear that the Rebel military is sexist (and furthermore, that it's not considered particularly unusual either).
Of course, the whole point of above isn't that the Imperial military isn't sexist, it's that the notion that the Rebel military it spawned (inadvertently) is obviously a sexist institution too. The 'reset' might change that, but the old material doesn't.
EDIT: Also, I don't remember that scene in ANH either, so I'll take your word for it.
Yeah, I haven't seen anything to suggest Chewbacca got a military commission.
Which is perfectly reasonable. No matter how much the audience loves him, or how much he might believe in the Rebel cause, he's the first-mate of a former drug and gun runner, right? Even with ~4 years transpiring, it's not strange that Chewbacca never got an officer's commission. It's that they made the hired gun he's following, a general (if only to send down to go blow up a shield generator on a moon that orbits no planet). I think even the audience would understand there's at least one military rank between "(brigadier) general" and "captain (of a junky smuggling ship". The fact that both he and Lando got one kind of suggests they were basically just giving them to whoever asked.
Or it's bad writing. Whatever.
You were right!
Get your ass to Mars!
We've come a LONG way in the last ~40 years.
If there is one thing I know, it is 70's-80's movies with kids/teens having space/science hi-jinks.
Which is like 75% of all 70s-80's movies.