The Paragon choice was "this will fix them, Legion says that they'll be better off this way, we don't HAVE to kill all of them." The Renegade choice was like "better not to risk them going bad again, let's just kill them." The fan interpretation of brainwashing etc didn't factor into the decision, as stated. Not that that was an invalid way to make the choice mind you, just the way the game phrased it.
Uh, none of that is true?
Legion expressly states that the Heretics are following the Reapers of their own free will, and that by using their own mind control virus against them, he will be robbing them of that free will, at least in regard to that one particular decision. The whole reason he leaves the choice up to Shepard is because he can't decide for himself what the more ethical course of action is.
Mordin is the only one who advocates using the virus, comparing it to how he found a way to spare the Krogan from extinction by using the modified Genophage. Most other companions advise Shepard to kill them because they don't trust Legion's faction of Geth any more than they trust the Heretics. Only a few of them, like Grunt, tell Shepard that they believe killing the Heretics is more humane.
But it's absolutely a dilemma of unwilling rehabilitation versus execution. Trying to write off that understanding as some kind of wacko fanon theory is entirely disingenuous.
Legion makes it clear that you will be wiping their minds, yes. But he also says that since they're robots, this will DEFINITELY work and his faction would welcome them back. Not at all the same as some messy organic brainwashing in terms of feasibility, success rates, etc. If you consider the "variable" that changed to be "susceptible to evil robot mind control" or something... you could make the case for it to be Paragon.
Again, not looking to have the argument that wiping them isn't actually a moral choice, just putting down what I believe the game's reasoning is for it to be Paragon. Please don't attempt to have the former debate with me, I have heard and had it MANY times since the game came out.
My initial argument was just that, since the Reapers are also robots, what's paragon for the one should be paragon for the other.
Again, the "variable" wasn't "susceptible to evil robot mind control" because the game makes it explicit that the Heretics weren't being mind controlled. They were serving the Reapers willingly, at least at the time that mission takes place.
There was never a "good" faction of Reapers. Legion's Geth came to the conclusion they didn't want to hurt organics on their own. Inventing a new perspective for the Reapers is different, imo.
The Paragon choice was "this will fix them, Legion says that they'll be better off this way, we don't HAVE to kill all of them." The Renegade choice was like "better not to risk them going bad again, let's just kill them." The fan interpretation of brainwashing etc didn't factor into the decision, as stated. Not that that was an invalid way to make the choice mind you, just the way the game phrased it.
Uh, none of that is true?
Legion expressly states that the Heretics are following the Reapers of their own free will, and that by using their own mind control virus against them, he will be robbing them of that free will, at least in regard to that one particular decision. The whole reason he leaves the choice up to Shepard is because he can't decide for himself what the more ethical course of action is.
Mordin is the only one who advocates using the virus, comparing it to how he found a way to spare the Krogan from extinction by using the modified Genophage. Most other companions advise Shepard to kill them because they don't trust Legion's faction of Geth any more than they trust the Heretics. Only a few of them, like Grunt, tell Shepard that they believe killing the Heretics is more humane.
But it's absolutely a dilemma of unwilling rehabilitation versus execution. Trying to write off that understanding as some kind of wacko fanon theory is entirely disingenuous.
Legion makes it clear that you will be wiping their minds, yes. But he also says that since they're robots, this will DEFINITELY work and his faction would welcome them back. Not at all the same as some messy organic brainwashing in terms of feasibility, success rates, etc. If you consider the "variable" that changed to be "susceptible to evil robot mind control" or something... you could make the case for it to be Paragon.
Again, not looking to have the argument that wiping them isn't actually a moral choice, just putting down what I believe the game's reasoning is for it to be Paragon. Please don't attempt to have the former debate with me, I have heard and had it MANY times since the game came out.
My initial argument was just that, since the Reapers are also robots, what's paragon for the one should be paragon for the other.
Again, the "variable" wasn't "susceptible to evil robot mind control" because the game makes it explicit that the Heretics weren't being mind controlled. They were serving the Reapers willingly, at least at the time that mission takes place.
There was never a "good" faction of Reapers. Legion's Geth came to the conclusion they didn't want to hurt organics on their own. Inventing a new perspective for the Reapers is different, imo.
I would argue that what you did in that mission was impose Legion's will onto the Heretics, which isn't really different in any meaningful way from imposing Shepard's will onto the Reapers.
The biggest difference is that with the Heretics you were only overwriting a single decision, whereas with the Reapers you're erasing their entire consciousness and replacing it with a new one. But I don't see that as significant. It's still mind wiping either way.
So does it make me a bad person if I'm using my magical blue Paragon powers to chisel extra credits out of people I helped, even though my credits are currently maxed out?
Before ME3 I figured the outcome would be based on humanities role in the galaxy, either working alongside the other species or at the head of a galactic empire.
Then in the end, after the reapers had been defeated, you would have come into contact with a new sentient species just as the humans were discovered by the Turians.
So does it make me a bad person if I'm using my magical blue Paragon powers to chisel extra credits out of people I helped, even though my credits are currently maxed out?
Buy more HMWSR weapons
Buy all the HMWSR weapons
+9
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
If you aren't knocking them through the floor, you aren't exploding high enough.
I once had 3 fully tricked-out sniper rifles (me, Garrus, Ashley) and we hit some random geth soldier from above a canyon about a hundred meters deep. That motherfucker basically disappeared from the sandbox and the game literally crashed before it could even come back for re-entry back to the planet
If you aren't knocking them through the floor, you aren't exploding high enough.
I once had 3 fully tricked-out sniper rifles (me, Garrus, Ashley) and we hit some random geth soldier from above a canyon about a hundred meters deep. That motherfucker basically disappeared from the sandbox and the game literally crashed before it could even come back for re-entry back to the planet
I really miss that about ME1. You could have some engagements at a distance, thanks to the explorable planets.
And ME1 NG+ runthrough finished. Didn't quite make it to 60 -- I think I had too much ground to make up from my original playthrough. Did pretty much everything except, well, most of Pinnacle Station which was a) mildly irritating and b) kind of shonky; I was encountering framerate issues that I didn't see anywhere else in the game (and which, given the system I'm using to play this game from 2008, I should never have seen in the first place). Ah, well. I suspect that if I went back & checked, I'd find that I made pretty much all the same decisions this time as I did on my original playthrough -- again, I finished with a totally maxed-out Paragon meter. I just can't remember if I
was able to talk Saren into shooting himself in the head
last time.
Will definitely be continuing on to ME2 & ME3, but I'll put a few other, shorter, things into the queue first.
After great consideration, we are closing down the BioWare forums, effective August 26, 2016. The Star Wars: The Old Republic forums will continue to operate; however, our public boards for Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and legacy BioWare titles will no longer be available.
This wasn’t an easy decision.
Our players are important to us. Your feedback, stories, and love for our games drive and inspire us.
In the past, our forums were the only way we could speak to you directly. They allowed our developers to talk with fans, and gave our players the opportunity to talk with each other about our games. But with the rise of social media and geek culture, there have never been more ways for us to connect.
Now we can travel around the world, meeting with you face-to-face at events like PAX, SDCC, and even shows in our own backyard. We can share stories with you on the go, giving you a look behind the scenes on sites like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Instagram.
In turn, you’ve built your own fantastic communities in places like Tumblr and Reddit. You’ve created comprehensive Wikis and countless pieces of fantastic art, fiction, and cosplay.
With so many great things so widely available, our developers today find themselves spending more time on other sites, and less time in our own forums. And to our fans and players who came to those boards looking to talk to us, it was a great disservice.
So it is with a heavy heart that we will close our public forums on August 26, 2016. We will maintain some private boards, and may use these in future for beta feedback or other special projects.
Because we know there is a lot of information on there you may want to keep, the public boards will remain in a read-only state until October 25, 2016. After that date, they will be taken down.
While we are saying goodbye to this venue, we remain committed to our community and will always be here to listen, share, and support you. Online and in person, we will continue to seek out opportunities to interact and share in our combined love of games.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
After playing through it again a moment ago the Kai Leng fight on Thessia remains the best example of "Shitty DM" I have ever experienced in a vidja game.
It's just such a perfect example of it.
+7
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
At least wiping him the second time around is super satisfying
Like, pow Black Widow right in the kisser your banter don't mean shit
After great consideration, we are closing down the BioWare forums, effective August 26, 2016. The Star Wars: The Old Republic forums will continue to operate; however, our public boards for Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and legacy BioWare titles will no longer be available.
This wasn’t an easy decision.
Our players are important to us. Your feedback, stories, and love for our games drive and inspire us.
In the past, our forums were the only way we could speak to you directly. They allowed our developers to talk with fans, and gave our players the opportunity to talk with each other about our games. But with the rise of social media and geek culture, there have never been more ways for us to connect.
Now we can travel around the world, meeting with you face-to-face at events like PAX, SDCC, and even shows in our own backyard. We can share stories with you on the go, giving you a look behind the scenes on sites like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Instagram.
In turn, you’ve built your own fantastic communities in places like Tumblr and Reddit. You’ve created comprehensive Wikis and countless pieces of fantastic art, fiction, and cosplay.
With so many great things so widely available, our developers today find themselves spending more time on other sites, and less time in our own forums. And to our fans and players who came to those boards looking to talk to us, it was a great disservice.
So it is with a heavy heart that we will close our public forums on August 26, 2016. We will maintain some private boards, and may use these in future for beta feedback or other special projects.
Because we know there is a lot of information on there you may want to keep, the public boards will remain in a read-only state until October 25, 2016. After that date, they will be taken down.
While we are saying goodbye to this venue, we remain committed to our community and will always be here to listen, share, and support you. Online and in person, we will continue to seek out opportunities to interact and share in our combined love of games.
Does this mean they'll actually let their people post on third party forums now?
After great consideration, we are closing down the BioWare forums, effective August 26, 2016. The Star Wars: The Old Republic forums will continue to operate; however, our public boards for Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and legacy BioWare titles will no longer be available.
This wasn’t an easy decision.
Our players are important to us. Your feedback, stories, and love for our games drive and inspire us.
In the past, our forums were the only way we could speak to you directly. They allowed our developers to talk with fans, and gave our players the opportunity to talk with each other about our games. But with the rise of social media and geek culture, there have never been more ways for us to connect.
Now we can travel around the world, meeting with you face-to-face at events like PAX, SDCC, and even shows in our own backyard. We can share stories with you on the go, giving you a look behind the scenes on sites like Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Instagram.
In turn, you’ve built your own fantastic communities in places like Tumblr and Reddit. You’ve created comprehensive Wikis and countless pieces of fantastic art, fiction, and cosplay.
With so many great things so widely available, our developers today find themselves spending more time on other sites, and less time in our own forums. And to our fans and players who came to those boards looking to talk to us, it was a great disservice.
So it is with a heavy heart that we will close our public forums on August 26, 2016. We will maintain some private boards, and may use these in future for beta feedback or other special projects.
Because we know there is a lot of information on there you may want to keep, the public boards will remain in a read-only state until October 25, 2016. After that date, they will be taken down.
While we are saying goodbye to this venue, we remain committed to our community and will always be here to listen, share, and support you. Online and in person, we will continue to seek out opportunities to interact and share in our combined love of games.
As checkpoint pointed out, this is like opening the Arc of the Covenant. Now those people will go elsewhere. *shudder*
Those people were already elsewhere. They had a place that worked as a feedback loop for shitty viewpoints and then went other places and lashed out at people who didn't share them. That's how the internet works now, segregating people off into their own communities doesn't work because they all have facebook and twitter and whatever else.
If their forums were so bad that it no longer made sense to keep them around/spend the money on moderation to make them not terrible, even for the whole community-sourced tech support thing, then i'm not surprised at all that they pulled the plug.
+7
GatorAn alligator in ScotlandRegistered Userregular
Oh for the halcyon days where Tali sweat was the worst thing on the internet
Can they re-release the trilogy to ps4 already and take all my money... I know i'm not alone on this.
As long as it gets released on PC
Oh and new ME3MP maps
It kind of kills me that people haven't figured out how to build 3rd party servers with custom maps yet. If Andromeda multiplayer doesn't deliver, it'll probably be time to start working on a ME3MP recreation in Source Engine or something before EA kills the servers.
At least wiping him the second time around is super satisfying
Like, pow Black Widow right in the kisser your banter don't mean shit
The banter the second time around was mostly Shepard being very clear about how much Kai Leng sucked.
Seriously, it's like he had two writing teams. One tried to sell him as Captain Badass. The other made jerking off motions every time he was on screen and spent every second they could making him look even more like a joke.
At least wiping him the second time around is super satisfying
Like, pow Black Widow right in the kisser your banter don't mean shit
The banter the second time around was mostly Shepard being very clear about how much Kai Leng sucked.
Seriously, it's like he had two writing teams. One tried to sell him as Captain Badass. The other made jerking off motions every time he was on screen and spent every second they could making him look even more like a joke.
TIM didn't even take him seriously versus Shepard.
The only acceptable remaster would include all the DLC, which we all know will never happen.
Sorce on
+2
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
God I wish they would sell the dlc on PC for actual money rather than bioware bux. Mostly so it might actually go on sale but also, come on it's about the only thing left on the origin store that doesn't use actual money.
Posts
There was never a "good" faction of Reapers. Legion's Geth came to the conclusion they didn't want to hurt organics on their own. Inventing a new perspective for the Reapers is different, imo.
I would argue that what you did in that mission was impose Legion's will onto the Heretics, which isn't really different in any meaningful way from imposing Shepard's will onto the Reapers.
The biggest difference is that with the Heretics you were only overwriting a single decision, whereas with the Reapers you're erasing their entire consciousness and replacing it with a new one. But I don't see that as significant. It's still mind wiping either way.
Then in the end, after the reapers had been defeated, you would have come into contact with a new sentient species just as the humans were discovered by the Turians.
Buy more HMWSR weapons
Buy all the HMWSR weapons
ragdolls all day erry day
This is why we all know that Indoctrination Theory is bullshit, but Intoxication Theory is the real deal!
I once had 3 fully tricked-out sniper rifles (me, Garrus, Ashley) and we hit some random geth soldier from above a canyon about a hundred meters deep. That motherfucker basically disappeared from the sandbox and the game literally crashed before it could even come back for re-entry back to the planet
I really miss that about ME1. You could have some engagements at a distance, thanks to the explorable planets.
ME3 bugged out and never gave me the Kasumi mission and I'm well past the point of no return
Welp, too bad. Guess I just don't see Kasumi this playthrough.
...
Nope, not loading a save game from 8 hours ago.
...
*mouse cursor shakes over load button*
-Commander Shepard, 2186
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
"I should go."
-Commander Shepard
Will definitely be continuing on to ME2 & ME3, but I'll put a few other, shorter, things into the queue first.
Counterpoint:
http://blog.bioware.com/2016/07/29/concerning-our-forums/
Red Ending:
It's just such a perfect example of it.
Like, pow Black Widow right in the kisser your banter don't mean shit
Found this though, so I got that going for me.
Does this mean they'll actually let their people post on third party forums now?
Free Takyris! Never forget!
As checkpoint pointed out, this is like opening the Arc of the Covenant. Now those people will go elsewhere. *shudder*
If their forums were so bad that it no longer made sense to keep them around/spend the money on moderation to make them not terrible, even for the whole community-sourced tech support thing, then i'm not surprised at all that they pulled the plug.
Godspeed, Ironsides.
As long as it gets released on PC
Oh and new ME3MP maps
It kind of kills me that people haven't figured out how to build 3rd party servers with custom maps yet. If Andromeda multiplayer doesn't deliver, it'll probably be time to start working on a ME3MP recreation in Source Engine or something before EA kills the servers.
The banter the second time around was mostly Shepard being very clear about how much Kai Leng sucked.
Seriously, it's like he had two writing teams. One tried to sell him as Captain Badass. The other made jerking off motions every time he was on screen and spent every second they could making him look even more like a joke.
Why I fear the ocean.
It's still fucking clownshoes
But!
Now I get to play through the best part of ME3 again. Can't wait for the party.
I desperately want this, but EA seems to think they're taking some moral highground by not doing remasters.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO