Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

The hella rad Life Is Strange thread

12345679»

Posts

  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    The lesson comes across as "If you have the means to help others, don't do it. If you have power of some sort, it's wrong to use it for any reason. Just be a passive observer in all things and let bad things happen to people." And that's fucked.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
    ArteenChincymcchillaShadowhopeMsAnthropyGrey GhostmasterofmetroidKana
  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Of course the rewind powers don't come about by any personal growth. That's not the point of the rewind powers. They are what help enable her personal growth. Her regret over Chloe dying is what triggers the very first rewind, and from that moment on Max opens up to other people, makes an effort to connect to her old friend, empathizes with others and searches for ways to help them. The rewind powers help her do that, yes, but they aren't what motivate her to do the things she does in the game. The desire to be a better person--and a better friend--is what propels her. As we see when she talks down Kate Marsh, she doesn't simply give up after losing her powers. She still does her very best to be a hero, because she wants to. The powers simply let her fix mistakes and obtain a "perfect" outcome for her and the people she cares about. You're acting like her rewind powers somehow act as a replacement for her character growth, but in every single episode she goes through a whole shitload of pain and hardship just to do what she feels is the right thing. Max's actions sure as hell aren't free of consequences, as episode 4 makes abundantly clear.
    I didn't mean to imply that Max doesn't have any personal growth- I think her growth is central to the story. I was trying to explain why I don't think her powers are a metaphor for the type of agency that comes with age. That said, I think you're oversimplifying the role of her powers. She's not just using them to explore different outcomes, she's using them to gain information and give people the impression that she cares about them more than she does. As a result of her powers, she appears to care enough about Juliet to learn her full name, to care enough about Taylor that she heard about her mom and came to comfort her, and to care enough about Courtney that she noticed her interest in fashion. Max's motivations may be good, but the fact remains that she uses her powers as a shortcut. As long as she can rewind time, she doesn't need to build personal relationships with anyone, because she is very adept at extracting information and making an intimate personal connection with people the moment she needs something from them. In a different way, they allowed her to completely repair her relationship with Chloe in only a few days. The time they spent together was very important to rebuilding their relationship, but it was able to happen so quickly because Max saved Chloe's life twice, and because Chloe was infatuated with Max's new power.

    Consider what would happen if Max's powers never failed on the roof- she would either keep testing out different answers until she hit the right ones, or simply teleport over to Kate and drag her to safety. She wouldn't need to stand up to David, take Kate's phone call, pay any attention to her family relationships, or support her in going to the police. That's what I mean when I say her actions are free of consequences- yes, of course, there are always consequences to every action, and even Max can't foresee all the long-term consequences of every decision she makes. But with the combination of short-term rewinds, long-term rewinds, and brute-forcing conversations to give people exactly what they want to hear, Max can rewrite or at least smooth over nearly all of these consequences, no matter how shittily she's behaved.

    The powers do enable a lot of personal growth, by placing Max in very serious situations that she never would have been in otherwise. But the real growth is triggered by the limitations of those powers, and the fear of what will happen if she's placed in a serious situation and the powers fail. She talks about this a lot with Chloe- it's what drives her to be a better person and consider the consequences of her actions more thoughtfully. Chloe sees the powers as license to be an asshole, but Max realizes they're a crutch that could snap at the worst possible moment.

    And the problem with comparing it to a Faustian bargain is that there was no bargain. There was nothing around at the beginning to offer her a way to fix things at a price. She just randomly gets the powers and is never told what their scope is, where they came from, and what the consequences of using them are (beyond the typical stuff a genre-savvy teen would know about time travel). She has to figure out absolutely everything on her own. Chloe's death prompts her to be a better person, she becomes a better person, and then the arbitrary consequences of time travel that were never explained come back to punish her for that.
    The bargain is offered at the end of the story, not the beginning. That's the "twist"- Max gets to try out the powers, free of charge, before she even knows there's an offer on the table. If she refuses the offer, time is rewound, and Max loses nothing- she's reset back to the starting point. In fact, she comes out ahead, because she shared an incredible experience with Chloe and grew into a better person. Yes, it's crushingly sad that she has to say goodbye to Chloe after reconnecting and falling in love with her- but without that free week, she wouldn't even have had the chance to say goodbye.
    Like, what in the world is supposed to be the message of the Sacrifice Chloe ending? "Fuck you for doing exactly what any decent human being would do in that scenario?"
    It's a positive message. Bittersweet, but positive. Sadness for the loss of her friend, but appreciation for the time they spent and memories they made together. Determination to learn from her mistakes and be a better person in the future.

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I found it mostly bitter.
    I'm not saying the ending ruined it for me, but it made me appreciate the story less, at least

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    Shadowhope
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    And also
    the idea that she was abusing the power just isn't true. She at all times uses the power to help people. The idea of her doing it to make people like her is dubious at best. She saves friendships, lives... I dont know what more she could do to prove good intentions

    And in episode 3 when she changes too much she literally, out loud says "I shouldn't abuse my power". The lesson the spirits or whatever are trying to teach has already been learned and the bad motivation ascribed to max simply aren't accurate.
    Well, maybe you didn't abuse your power.

    My Max used them to watch the last flickering light in a person's eye go out on loop.

    ShadowhopeKana
  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    Whole game thoughts
    The poor endings definitely soured me on the game. Overall I enjoyed the experience, but as the story got progressively darker I got progressively less invested in it. I was hoping for something a bit more lighthearted based on the first episode, the whimsical title, the chill music, the silly premise, and dumb references to Spirits Within.

    The story they told was not the story I thought I was getting. I was hoping we'd fall into a time hole and find Rachel Amber, or something fun like that. I didn't want to play a dark, depressing murder mystery.

  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Of course the rewind powers don't come about by any personal growth. That's not the point of the rewind powers. They are what help enable her personal growth. Her regret over Chloe dying is what triggers the very first rewind, and from that moment on Max opens up to other people, makes an effort to connect to her old friend, empathizes with others and searches for ways to help them. The rewind powers help her do that, yes, but they aren't what motivate her to do the things she does in the game. The desire to be a better person--and a better friend--is what propels her. As we see when she talks down Kate Marsh, she doesn't simply give up after losing her powers. She still does her very best to be a hero, because she wants to. The powers simply let her fix mistakes and obtain a "perfect" outcome for her and the people she cares about. You're acting like her rewind powers somehow act as a replacement for her character growth, but in every single episode she goes through a whole shitload of pain and hardship just to do what she feels is the right thing. Max's actions sure as hell aren't free of consequences, as episode 4 makes abundantly clear.
    I didn't mean to imply that Max doesn't have any personal growth- I think her growth is central to the story. I was trying to explain why I don't think her powers are a metaphor for the type of agency that comes with age. That said, I think you're oversimplifying the role of her powers. She's not just using them to explore different outcomes, she's using them to gain information and give people the impression that she cares about them more than she does. As a result of her powers, she appears to care enough about Juliet to learn her full name, to care enough about Taylor that she heard about her mom and came to comfort her, and to care enough about Courtney that she noticed her interest in fashion. Max's motivations may be good, but the fact remains that she uses her powers as a shortcut. As long as she can rewind time, she doesn't need to build personal relationships with anyone, because she is very adept at extracting information and making an intimate personal connection with people the moment she needs something from them. In a different way, they allowed her to completely repair her relationship with Chloe in only a few days. The time they spent together was very important to rebuilding their relationship, but it was able to happen so quickly because Max saved Chloe's life twice, and because Chloe was infatuated with Max's new power.

    Consider what would happen if Max's powers never failed on the roof- she would either keep testing out different answers until she hit the right ones, or simply teleport over to Kate and drag her to safety. She wouldn't need to stand up to David, take Kate's phone call, pay any attention to her family relationships, or support her in going to the police. That's what I mean when I say her actions are free of consequences- yes, of course, there are always consequences to every action, and even Max can't foresee all the long-term consequences of every decision she makes. But with the combination of short-term rewinds, long-term rewinds, and brute-forcing conversations to give people exactly what they want to hear, Max can rewrite or at least smooth over nearly all of these consequences, no matter how shittily she's behaved.

    The powers do enable a lot of personal growth, by placing Max in very serious situations that she never would have been in otherwise. But the real growth is triggered by the limitations of those powers, and the fear of what will happen if she's placed in a serious situation and the powers fail. She talks about this a lot with Chloe- it's what drives her to be a better person and consider the consequences of her actions more thoughtfully. Chloe sees the powers as license to be an asshole, but Max realizes they're a crutch that could snap at the worst possible moment.

    And the problem with comparing it to a Faustian bargain is that there was no bargain. There was nothing around at the beginning to offer her a way to fix things at a price. She just randomly gets the powers and is never told what their scope is, where they came from, and what the consequences of using them are (beyond the typical stuff a genre-savvy teen would know about time travel). She has to figure out absolutely everything on her own. Chloe's death prompts her to be a better person, she becomes a better person, and then the arbitrary consequences of time travel that were never explained come back to punish her for that.
    The bargain is offered at the end of the story, not the beginning. That's the "twist"- Max gets to try out the powers, free of charge, before she even knows there's an offer on the table. If she refuses the offer, time is rewound, and Max loses nothing- she's reset back to the starting point. In fact, she comes out ahead, because she shared an incredible experience with Chloe and grew into a better person. Yes, it's crushingly sad that she has to say goodbye to Chloe after reconnecting and falling in love with her- but without that free week, she wouldn't even have had the chance to say goodbye.
    Like, what in the world is supposed to be the message of the Sacrifice Chloe ending? "Fuck you for doing exactly what any decent human being would do in that scenario?"
    It's a positive message. Bittersweet, but positive. Sadness for the loss of her friend, but appreciation for the time they spent and memories they made together. Determination to learn from her mistakes and be a better person in the future.

    I think your view and ours is just incompatible because the absolute last word id use to describe the message is positive

    I am glad you enjoyed it

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
    Grey GhostKetBra
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    The bargain is offered at the end of the story, not the beginning. That's the "twist"- Max gets to try out the powers, free of charge, before she even knows there's an offer on the table. If she refuses the offer, time is rewound, and Max loses nothing- she's reset back to the starting point. In fact, she comes out ahead, because she shared an incredible experience with Chloe and grew into a better person. Yes, it's crushingly sad that she has to say goodbye to Chloe after reconnecting and falling in love with her- but without that free week, she wouldn't even have had the chance to say goodbye.
    Giving somebody something, then turning around after they've used it and saying "now that you've used this gift I gave you, here are my demands" is pretty messed up, and, quite frankly, kind of evil. And if that's what they're going for, the whole "life is unfair, one cosmic cruel joke at your expense" thing, well, okay, but it's not what I'd call a satisfying ending. It's cool that you liked it, but it definitely felt like a big ol' "fuck you" to me.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    And also
    the idea that she was abusing the power just isn't true. She at all times uses the power to help people. The idea of her doing it to make people like her is dubious at best. She saves friendships, lives... I dont know what more she could do to prove good intentions

    And in episode 3 when she changes too much she literally, out loud says "I shouldn't abuse my power". The lesson the spirits or whatever are trying to teach has already been learned and the bad motivation ascribed to max simply aren't accurate.
    Max was pretty restrained with her power, but it wasn't all puppies and sunshine. She clearly did use it to make people like her, one blue-haired person in particular. And a lot of the stuff she does before Chloe recruits her for Team Amber isn't easily explained by a desire to help people.

    Anyway, good intentions can't excuse all of Max's actions. She breaks into David's files, Frank's home, Nathan's dorm, Wells' office and a bunch of other students' files. David was creepy, Frank had Rachel's bracelet, and Nathan was highly suspicious, but does that really justify all these gross violations of privacy? She also breaks into the pool and can peek in other people's lockers along the way, neither of which has much to do with investigating Nathan.

    I don't think the story is meant to be a cautionary tale about the use of power to help other people. If it were, the message might as well be "go ahead and use your power, because you can always use that same power to undo everything if it doesn't turn out right".

    Giving somebody something, then turning around after they've used it and saying "now that you've used this gift I gave you, here are my demands" is pretty messed up, and, quite frankly, kind of evil. And if that's what they're going for, the whole "life is unfair, one cosmic cruel joke at your expense" thing, well, okay, but it's not what I'd call a satisfying ending. It's cool that you liked it, but it definitely felt like a big ol' "fuck you" to me.
    It would be way more evil if she didn't have the option to return the gift and refuse the demands. I know a lot of people despise the ending and think it undid all their work for no reward, but do you feel like Max would've been better off never gaining rewind powers? Was it all a waste of time if she can't keep Chloe in the end?

  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    saying she saved someones life so that person would like her is the most uncharitable reading of a thing I have ever, ever read

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
    StiltsmasterofmetroidMsAnthropyGrey GhostPwnanObrienKetBra
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    saying she saved someones life so that person would like her is the most uncharitable reading of a thing I have ever, ever read

    ...Why else would you save someone's life?

    Wait. Did you need more time to set up a scam insurance policy? Because that's a pretty good reason too.

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    The point is
    that max might have it even existed and still the "Chloe dies" ending would have happened pretty much exactly like that. If that doesn't scream "no agency", I don't know what does

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    saying she saved someones life so that person would like her is the most uncharitable reading of a thing I have ever, ever read

    Funny, because I think that's a pretty uncharitable reading of my post.
    The point is
    that max might have it even existed and still the "Chloe dies" ending would have happened pretty much exactly like that. If that doesn't scream "no agency", I don't know what does
    There is a spectrum of agency. On one end, you have nonexistent Max, who affects nothing and no one. On the other end, you have super Max, who can roll out of bed, stumble across an imminent disaster, and fix everything with only her wits and her trusty rewind power. Somewhere in the middle is ordinary Max, who is kind of shit in the superhero department, but turns out to be pretty good at caring for people and photographing things. Just because she can't leap out of the bathroom, undo a murder, and disrupt the entire chain of events that follow doesn't make her a nonentity. She can still have a successful career and stand up to bullies and comfort Chloe's family and do all the important things that ordinary people are capable of. She can even save people's lives, not by rewriting history after they're already gone, but by being a good friend and intervening before they reach a crisis point.

  • AshcroftAshcroft LOL The PayloadRegistered User regular
    Anyone else pick this up in the sale? I've been playing it and just got up to the end of episode 3.

    I accidentally drowned Lisa.

    foxs1.png
    scherbchenEmerlmaster999
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst They Said I Needed My Head Examined But I'd Rather Just Take YoursRegistered User regular
    This game hit me hard and is easily top 5 GOTY 2015

    man...

    twitch.tv/frawrst
    QT7XHss.jpg
    scherbchenVagabondPwnanObrien
  • PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    This game hit me hard and is easily top 5 GOTY 2015

    man...

    I finished watching Giant Bomb's playthrough two days ago and it's still sticking with me.
    I think the obvious canon ending actually ties in perfectly as a reinforcement of the series' themes surrounding relationships, death and having a proper goodbye with somebody, something that many of us never get. It's a heartrending tale of Max learning to grow as a person from her experience with an estranged friend who in her reality would have been killed over a minor money dispute in the bathroom of a highschool before they ever got the chance to reunite. By contrast Chloe's sacrifice isn't just death but a lonely death where she never finds out what happened to Rachel nor does she ever see Max again. Sure, you could cynically see the whole thing as negating many of your ultimately unimportant choices in the game but more importantly you the player, like Max, have the experience of having actually known Chloe better than any other person is literally capable of. Chloe herself lays out the game's thesis before the final choice is given.

    "Wherever I end up after this... in whatever reality... all those moments between us were real, and they'll always be ours."

    PwnanObrien on
    WrIiiPW.png
    Billy ChenowithNartwakfRAWRst
  • nicopernicusnicopernicus Registered User regular
    I just finished watching the Giant Bomb play-through of this...
    68% of people kissed Warren?? What the actual fuck?

    keep it wavy
    Ms DapperMoth 13ArteenVagabondSenorTacosKanaNartwak
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst They Said I Needed My Head Examined But I'd Rather Just Take YoursRegistered User regular
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    This game hit me hard and is easily top 5 GOTY 2015

    man...

    I finished watching Giant Bomb's playthrough two days ago and it's still sticking with me.
    I think the obvious canon ending actually ties in perfectly as a reinforcement of the series' themes surrounding relationships, death and having a proper goodbye with somebody, something that many of us never get. It's a heartrending tale of Max learning to grow as a person from her experience with an estranged friend who in her reality would have been killed over a minor money dispute in the bathroom of a highschool before they ever got the chance to reunite. By contrast Chloe's sacrifice isn't just death but a lonely death where she never finds out what happened to Rachel nor does she ever see Max again. Sure, you could cynically see the whole thing as negating many of your ultimately unimportant choices in the game but more importantly you the player, like Max, have the experience of having actually known Chloe better than any other person is literally capable of. Chloe herself lays out the game's thesis before the final choice is given.

    "Wherever I end up after this... in whatever reality... all those moments between us were real, and they'll always be ours."
    I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.

    twitch.tv/frawrst
    QT7XHss.jpg
  • VagabondVagabond Sans Gravitas Registered User regular
    I just finished watching the Giant Bomb play-through of this...
    68% of people kissed Warren?? What the actual fuck?
    I've thought about this because it seems just as odd to me as it does to you. For some people, yeah, they ship Max x Warren and then it's perfectly understandable. But I've watched people choose the Kiss option with Warren even when they don't ship them. This is what I've come up with:

    1. They see affection as a prize for good behavior. Do the right thing or be a good person and *boom* here's your gift kiss! This is typically seen in games in the opposite direction, but it has trained people to think like this.
    2. People seeing Max as a blank-slate avatar. In this mentality, the player's actions only have an effect on the characters they interact with, not the "player character." They expect to choose how their avatar feels at every juncture based on their own feelings, even if these are contrary to their previous actions. So they don't consider that choosing to kiss Warren informs Max's character even if "I'm going to end this timeline and no one will ever know." These people are surprised when kissing Warren makes it more difficult/impossible to kiss Chloe during the Sacrifice Bay ending.

    vq2TEKC.png
    XBL: Sans Gravitas, Steam, Destiny, Twitch
    Destiny Raid Groups: Team NATBurn, Team Fourth Meal (Disbanded)
  • PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
    I felt bad about watching GBEast play through this game and enjoying it and not monetarily supporting the game so I bought it on The Humble Bundle Store hoping to check out the commentary.

    It's a series of, admittedly well edited, videos.

    I was really hoping for some Stubbs the Zombie style in-game commentary.

    WrIiiPW.png
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    I just finished watching the Giant Bomb play-through of this...
    68% of people kissed Warren?? What the actual fuck?
    Yeah, that's really fucking weird.

    On my playthrough, it was listed as a distinct minority option. Which makes more sense.

    nicopernicus
  • nicopernicusnicopernicus Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    I just finished watching the Giant Bomb play-through of this...
    68% of people kissed Warren?? What the actual fuck?
    Yeah, that's really fucking weird.

    On my playthrough, it was listed as a distinct minority option. Which makes more sense.

    Hmm I could have read it wrong but I thought I double checked. I was super surprised.

    keep it wavy
  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    LiS is now available on Mac and Linux, and the first episode is free on all platforms.

Sign In or Register to comment.