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Constitutional crisis at [EuroPAX]

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I wonder if the fact that we're seriously considering having the next EuroPAX on board of a cruise ship means that we're all getting old

    Amsterdam was p nice, I don't know if anyone here wondered about that, probably not, but Kochi was a great host

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Liiya, when ya gonna be in Amsterdam

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Next week but I think only for two days or so before we move on to the next places, and then back on the last night before I leave for a final party a week later!

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    Hello again EuroPAX thread

    How's Greece holding up, it's been out of the news the last couple of weeks

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Liiya wrote: »
    Next week but I think only for two days or so before we move on to the next places, and then back on the last night before I leave for a final party a week later!

    Oooh, I wanted to give some recommendations based on what we saw, but that's not a lot of time!

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Liiya wrote: »
    Next week but I think only for two days or so before we move on to the next places, and then back on the last night before I leave for a final party a week later!

    Oooh, I wanted to give some recommendations based on what we saw, but that's not a lot of time!

    It is! It's a jam packed schedule of workshops and meetings sadly.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Some of the attractions are unfortunately also really pricey

    The Rijksmuseum is great but it costs 17,50

    Croc explained some strange statues of female saints crushing dudes below their feet to us

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Sounds like my kind of statue!

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I thought so!

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    This is what she wrote about the statues
    The guy hovering between Mary and the predella was a prophet of the Old Testament (hence the scroll and the turban). The guy Saint Barbara was standing on was her father Dioscorus, who beheaded her. Actually this is a quite interesting example of how family quarrels escalate. He kept her locked up in a tower because she was so beautiful. She became a Christian and had a third window put in the wall of her bath-house, as a symbol of the Holy Trinity, and it all went downhill from there. Lesson: No interior design without asking Mum and Dad first. By the way she had a unicorn pendant around her neck which signifies her virtue, because only virgins can tame unicorns. I wish I had thought of that.
    Saint Catherine of Alexandria right next to her was also crushing a dude who was the pagan emperor Maxentius. Maxentius proposed to her, she refused (because she was already married to Jesus; Jesus is polyamorous and gives his heart away freely, quite literally sometimes), and he sentenced her to torture on a breaking wheel, then beheaded her. Together, Saints Barbara, Catherine and Margaret are what can be translated as the "three holy girls".

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    This is what she wrote about the statues
    The guy hovering between Mary and the predella was a prophet of the Old Testament (hence the scroll and the turban). The guy Saint Barbara was standing on was her father Dioscorus, who beheaded her. Actually this is a quite interesting example of how family quarrels escalate. He kept her locked up in a tower because she was so beautiful. She became a Christian and had a third window put in the wall of her bath-house, as a symbol of the Holy Trinity, and it all went downhill from there. Lesson: No interior design without asking Mum and Dad first. By the way she had a unicorn pendant around her neck which signifies her virtue, because only virgins can tame unicorns. I wish I had thought of that.
    Saint Catherine of Alexandria right next to her was also crushing a dude who was the pagan emperor Maxentius. Maxentius proposed to her, she refused (because she was already married to Jesus; Jesus is polyamorous and gives his heart away freely, quite literally sometimes), and he sentenced her to torture on a breaking wheel, then beheaded her. Together, Saints Barbara, Catherine and Margaret are what can be translated as the "three holy girls".

    I will certainly be keeping my eye out for this!

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Turns out the German State might actually come out of the financial crisis with a fiscal plus. According to
    some projections the increased investment in german state bonds save Germany about 100 billion € since 2015. Some other states like The US and the Netherlands for example also benefited but not nearly as much.

    Not directly comparable, but Germany so far has given 90 billion to Greece. Also while the state saved this money, private investors lost out on interest yield.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Gumpy wrote: »
    Hello again EuroPAX thread

    How's Greece holding up, it's been out of the news the last couple of weeks

    Not great! They're apparently close to a bailout deal, but they're going to have to implement a bunch more austerity measures. The IMF doesn't want to be involved because they say the Greek debt load is unsustainable, but EU countries don't really want to talk about debt relief.

    We're basically back to the status quo, and Greece will probably have new elections soon.

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    Holy moley British politics

    If a political party makes a big song and dance about opening up it's leadership contest to the (more or less) general public after losing a popular election it can't then turn around and complain about the results. The Corbyn saga has been a roller coaster ride to follow and I have no doubt that there are some spectacular explosions still to come.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I'm starting to feel like British media never got the memo that most of the people currently streaming into the EU are not economic migrants but refugees, mostly from Syria

    And it feels so fucked up that few countries inside the EU have to shoulder most of the load, there is no coordinated response and others go to such fucking lengths to avoid taking in any refugees

    I'm sad and appalled at how Austrian authorities are handling the current crisis but the statistics are laughable and it feels like a huge part of the continent is currently in denial of reality

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Current problems aside, I feel like Germany's willingness to resettle hundreds of thousands of Syrians within their borders is going to massively benefit them in the end

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    The British media is awful and cannot be trusted.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    A lot of British papers are absolute rags, for sure

    Not that the state of journalism elsewhere is often that much better, mind, but still

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    So British politics took a bit of a turn yesterday

    I personally think it's fantastic news - I have no love for new labour and the type of careerist it attracted, though the rise and fall of Syriza do give a cautionary tale about how to run an anti-austerity party. Will Corbyn walk into number 10? Probably not at this stage, though five years is a long time. The left of Labour is now at the forefront of their party and will have to take responsibility for any fuck ups in the next five years, which the Blarites have been happily doing up until now. I'd expect Corbyn to lose a bit of his sheen as he actually tries to govern the party.

    The Tories are currently ecstatic that Labour's moving itself far enough away from it's own policies that it can lay into them without hitting itself. It couldn't really tear into them when what they promised was "tory lite". The Corbynites are more then happy to return the favour.

    The Lib Dem's are happy to take any centralist labour supporters who find this move to be too radical for them, though Corbyn will easily bring in fresh blood to replace any losses.

    The Green's are starting to take pot shots at him, but I think that they'll come out far worse from that fight. Natalie Bennet does not have the ability to go toe to toe with other party leaders.

    The SNP on my news-feed are currently posting quotes from Enoch Powel and are savaging some Scottish labour lady for being a lady. I wish I had nice SNP people on my newsfeed.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    I'm amazed the Greens have kept Bennet. She's utterly useless.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I have never heard of Jeremy Corbyn before today. He sounds like... not a jerk. But I must be missing something because he's a politician so how can he be not a jerk?

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Corbyn has some domestic policies I am well up on. Nationalised public transport. Nationalised power. Spending money on public services, anti-austerity, big fan of the welfare state. Good lad, get in.

    However, given that it actually looked like he was going to win I did some research on more of his views and he's very limp-wristed when it comes to foreign policy in, as one commentator put it, "hard-bollocked reality"

    For a leftie I am pretty damn hawkish and I have to say that his defence, foreign and energy policies aren't ones I agree with. He'll scrap trident, he'll drop military spending like a lead balloon, and he's also gushed over some mates in the middle east who have said some pretty "charming" things about gay people, women's rights and such.

    I hope that the more hawkish streak of the labour party rises up to be a clear balancing influence on the new leadership. But hey, at least it means the Labour Party have droppe the Tory-lite brand, Ed Milliband was on the radio talking about it and I reckon that half of what Corbyn says is what he wanted to say but never thought it was feasible to do so, especially with the party leadership being what it was.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    I have never heard of Jeremy Corbyn before today. He sounds like... not a jerk. But I must be missing something because he's a politician so how can he be not a jerk?

    Corbyn personally seems like a pretty alright guy, though he did have a decent number of supporters on social media ready to tear into the opposition (RIP Liz Kendall) on his behalf. He's been in a secure Labour London since before the rise of Blair and thus avoided being tarnished with the new labour brush.
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    I'm amazed the Greens have kept Bennet. She's utterly useless.

    She stood unopposed for Green leadership - There just aren't many people in the party willing to do the job
    Solar wrote: »
    But hey, at least it means the Labour Party have droppe the Tory-lite brand, Ed Milliband was on the radio talking about it and I reckon that half of what Corbyn says is what he wanted to say but never thought it was feasible to do so, especially with the party leadership being what it was.

    I've seen quite a few people say that Ed Milliband swinging the party to the left a bit was a vital stepping stone to Corbyn. I think he's gotten some satisfaction out of this result.

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »

    That quote has been rolled out by three or four tory bigwigs this morning. They are going to corbyn hard over his foreign policy and quantitative easing plans over the next five years.

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    JunpeiJunpei Registered User regular
    Good to know that the Tories are really embracing the American vocabulary in our politics : b

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    8569-ta4nft.JPG

    (Taken from here)

    Look at how close Cooper and Burnham were - That's one of the reasons they were obliterated. It seems like the membership couldn't see a major difference between them as candidates.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »

    And you, David, are a threat to our souls.

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Dishface.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited September 2015
    I think that's far too hard a line to take. My reaction to it is "come on, really?"

    Also I think Corbyn should take it and run with it. "The only security I threaten is the security of the Tory hold on power" or something like that.

    RMS Oceanic on
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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
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    Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Corbyn looks like the guy who played Vincent Van Gogh in Doctor Who, back in his younger years.

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular

    I'd say these were extraordinary circumstances that the Schengen Agreement accommodates, so it's within the rules as long as it's temporary. Still, it's a bit of a quick U-Turn from Germany. They've been remarkably more welcoming to refugees then pretty much any other state before now.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Germany has been very welcoming to refugees but in the last weeks up to 100,000 have left Eastern Europe for Germany

    The German government has been pushing for EU-wide quotas and the current situation is the opposite of what they've been trying to achieve in this regard

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    There has also been much internal pressure on Merkel and this step might be a concession to those who are concerned about Germany's role in the crisis

    There has been a dichotomy between German plans to evenly distribute refugees across the EU and the Hungarian government bringing refugees to the Austrian border so they can travel to Germany, although the humanitarian need to help these people was very real, especially in the face of what has been happening in Hungary

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    GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    After the financial collapse and Greece, the refugee crisis is the third big balls up the EU has had trying to organise a coherent response to a major recent crisis. If this is not correctly worked through, the consequences could be considerable. I've seen reference to Germany preparing to support the UK's bid to renegotiate the relationship if the UK supports an expansion of federal power (specifically, the idea of an EU army), which is what Germany needs if it's going to strong arm other states into taking their share.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    At the moment there is also squarrel between the german states because right now almost all the refugees end up in Munich/Bavaria (12.000 this saturday alone) and except for North Rhine-Westphalia most other states have not been that forthcoming with help until today when 4 more states offered to take in refugees from Bavaria and only about 3000 in total.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    The numbers are a bit ridiculous if you look at them, there are massive differences in the distribution of refugees across Europe and even inside specific countries, yet everyone seems to feel equally beset

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