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[Konami] I guess they remembered they're supposed to make games?

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  • heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    Plus, you gotta remember the state of things in japan right now. It's kinda likely they're going to legalize gambling. And when that happens, Konami is on the ground floor to explode. It's japan. They're not going to let a western company get a foothold and dominate ANYTHING, even just slot machines.

    I mean, yeah. It might not pass, but we're talking about hypotheticals anyway.

    M A G I K A Z A M
  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    ...Catering to different tastes to boost an industry that still sees some $185 billion wagered annually, machines in pachinko parlours now feature anime characters, games and idols, ranging from all-girl group AKB48 to Resident Evil, a video game blockbuster by Capcom Co that was made into a Hollywood film.

    "We're trying to change the image of pachinko as loud, smoke-ridden and male-dominated," said Tomoko Murouchi, a spokeswoman for one of the largest operators, Dynam Japan Holdings...

    It is WEIRD walking by a pachinko parlor and seeing the licenses that are slapped on the machines. Ten years ago it was a ton of 70s anime licenses, now there are all manner of moe characters plastered all over the machines. You have to think that the old guard is crying into their cheap vending-machine beers over the loss of the glory days.

    They are still loud and smoke-ridden, though.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Dude, there is no business riskier than trying to get in on the already totally saturated gambling market! Video games do not have the involved licensing & regulation overhead, do not have the overhead of manufacturing hardware and have at least one primary benefit to the manufacturer that gambling does not have - brand loyalty. How many people are going to buy Metal Gear: Phantom Pain because it has the pedigree of the Metal Gear franchise & Kojima's name behind it? Now, how many people are going to plunk tokens into a slot machine and pull the handle because it has some video game that they've never even heard of before as branding?

    Believe all you like that abandoning bid budget games in favor of gambling is a sure fire way to success. The numbers don't lie, and there is all kinds of precedent for disaster.

    What do you mean "trying to get in"? They've been in the market since 2006 according to Wikipedia. Or 1992 according to their own pachinko business site.

    You're almost acting like they just decided this year to burn their gaming business to the ground and decide to whip up a Silent Hill machine and make a go with that.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    Not to mention their repeated and 100% certified affirmations that they want to double down on the mobile market, which will (unfortunately) continue to do gangbusters in the Japanese market compared to home console development.

    I'll eat my hat when "disaster" strikes and Konami goes bankrupt and sells off all its IPs like you seem to think it will, but until then I won't be inclined to believe that this multidisciplinary (for lack of a better word, I'm not that literate :P) corporation is going to implode on itself by asserting its market share in a sector that it already has its foot in.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Not to mention their repeated and 100% certified affirmations that they want to double down on the mobile market, which will (unfortunately) continue to do gangbusters in the Japanese market compared to home console development.

    I'll eat my hat when "disaster" strikes and Konami goes bankrupt and sells off all its IPs like you seem to think it will, but until then I won't be inclined to believe that this multidisciplinary (for lack of a better word, I'm not that literate :P) corporation is going to implode on itself by asserting its market share in a sector that it already has its foot in.

    BUT PACHINKO!

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    My brief time in a Pachinko parlor saw it to be a sadder place even than a midwestern US casino. The silly thing is their loophole: you pay in cash and get rewarded in chips just like in many casinos, but then you have to take the chips across the street to this random window, and *that's* the business where you can exchange chips for money, with presumably the shell business making their money by re-selling very expensive bits of plastic back to the parlors.

    So it doesn't really need to be legalized.

    That said, it's a saturated market, but then again, so is AAA gaming.

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    I had to search for a video showing how Pachinko is played just to know what the heck it was.

    I was even more confused after seeing the video. o_O

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    I had to search for a video showing how Pachinko is played just to know what the heck it was.

    I was even more confused after seeing the video. o_O

    I'm a little cynical on the topic, but I think most regular players are middle-aged men looking for a way to escape the house and not think about work, because it is impossible to form a coherent thought when you are being buffeted by the godawful racket that is a pachinko parlor in full operation. Occasionally they might even get lucky and win some money, though that's pretty unlikely - the machines that are set to give regular payouts are the ones with the shills sitting in front of them from opening until close.

    Mostly they get to smoke and drink beer and not get the side-eye when they do it.

    It's not like it's a weird niche business to be in - there are parlors all over the place, huge multi-story affairs near every major train station, little ones near smaller stations. There's huge competition, and the big parlors will be covered in banners advertising the newest machines.

  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    Yeah, I was in Japan and they had buildings dedicated to them. I couldn't figure out how it was played, but the players were pretty mesmerized while playing them. It's pretty similar to how a casino is.

    Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    PTs level design was actually just Kojima's usual trek from his office to the car after work

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  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    PTs level design was actually just Kojima's usual trek from his office to the car after work

    so less survival horror, more a desperate cry for help?

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    They really nailed the character of pachinko

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    The thing Donuts is saying: the arguments presented in the Jim Sterling videos he's seen are kind of weak, and a person using his videos to support their opinion is using flaky material to do so to him. Going back to my first post:

    - Doing more than laughing and saying "Soltaire subscriptions" would have helped his credibility to me. (The failure here being his not evaluating why is this the case.)
    - Not pretending that licensing franchises to other products is horrible thing also would have helped. (The failure here being ignoring the context of how licenses work and their commonality).
    - Dismissing/refuting accounts from other "sources" while fluffing gossip from your "sources" as being something more than another flavor of the same? (The failure here being over valuation of what he had, as the rest of his insider stories weren't all that significant either.)

    That said, criticizing the components of an opinion isn't the same as saying someone shouldn't say something. I'm just saying why I don't think what's being said is meaningful to me. It absolutely works if "I'm annoyed at Konami and this thing that is in front of me supports why I should be annoyed" is the only thing you're looking for, but yeah. This is probably one of those things that we won't see eye to eye on.

    The points in your post where you say "...of a shitty pachislot machine..." / "...mindless Japanese and Western fan consumerism..." / "....e. the Japanese will eat this pachishit up...." are the precise points where I say you're being a dick about both the situation/thing you don't like. It's not out of the blue. I don't know what more to say there, sorry if I offended you but yeah.

    Even in decline, Pachinko is making lots of money. Mobile gaming, the primary place they're going and have said will be their primary focus going forward? Not in decline... particularly in the place that they've shifted their focus back toward: Japan. The great attempt to grab western audiences was a costly failure for many Japanese developers, and unlike Microsoft with the Xbox... they don't have the ability to play (and probably fail) the long game, It's that simple.

    edit: gaming while typing is hard. will fix other typos later.

    (Why third person? Is this a shtick?)

    He's laughing at the Solitaire thing because it's a joke. Trying to sell a never ending subscription price to something that has always been free. No, "expanded features" do not justify a subscription cost like it's fucking World of Warcraft. Actual fully featured games like The Old Republic can't maintain a subscriber base, and meanwhile here's Microsoft trying to charge for the quintessential example of a free title. It'd be like McDonald's suddenly charging $3 for each packet of Fancy Ketchup, it's just not done. Sorry the realities of the computer market since 1995 made this brief, unimportant statement at the start of the video confusing for you.

    Calling his sourced statements "not significant" doesn't actually make it so. Extremely siloed departments, mistrust and poor communication from the top execs, and alienation of top talent are all EXTREMELY bad things for any corporation, much less a creative company. Even if they fully successfully hit the targets of mobile and pachinko gaming (not especially likely, but sure why not), these issues of institutional rot will end up costing them down the line. Did you miss the part where they demoted Producers to Janitor roles? And no, naming another shitty business where they also do terrible, counterproductive things is not even worth saying. Because... uh yes, more than one company can be bad, what is your point?

    Regarding the dick thing, you're ignoring the glorious edict, so it doesn't really matter what you're trying to say by doing so.

    Unco-ordinatedchiasaur11Kevin CristLovelyStormwatcherCommander ZoomSweeney TomEncMegaMek
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    The thing Donuts is saying: the arguments presented in the Jim Sterling videos he's seen are kind of weak, and a person using his videos to support their opinion is using flaky material to do so to him. Going back to my first post:

    - Doing more than laughing and saying "Soltaire subscriptions" would have helped his credibility to me. (The failure here being his not evaluating why is this the case.)
    - Not pretending that licensing franchises to other products is horrible thing also would have helped. (The failure here being ignoring the context of how licenses work and their commonality).
    - Dismissing/refuting accounts from other "sources" while fluffing gossip from your "sources" as being something more than another flavor of the same? (The failure here being over valuation of what he had, as the rest of his insider stories weren't all that significant either.)

    That said, criticizing the components of an opinion isn't the same as saying someone shouldn't say something. I'm just saying why I don't think what's being said is meaningful to me. It absolutely works if "I'm annoyed at Konami and this thing that is in front of me supports why I should be annoyed" is the only thing you're looking for, but yeah. This is probably one of those things that we won't see eye to eye on.

    The points in your post where you say "...of a shitty pachislot machine..." / "...mindless Japanese and Western fan consumerism..." / "....e. the Japanese will eat this pachishit up...." are the precise points where I say you're being a dick about both the situation/thing you don't like. It's not out of the blue. I don't know what more to say there, sorry if I offended you but yeah.

    Even in decline, Pachinko is making lots of money. Mobile gaming, the primary place they're going and have said will be their primary focus going forward? Not in decline... particularly in the place that they've shifted their focus back toward: Japan. The great attempt to grab western audiences was a costly failure for many Japanese developers, and unlike Microsoft with the Xbox... they don't have the ability to play (and probably fail) the long game, It's that simple.

    edit: gaming while typing is hard. will fix other typos later.

    (Why third person? Is this a shtick?)

    He's laughing at the Solitaire thing because it's a joke. Trying to sell a never ending subscription price to something that has always been free. No, "expanded features" do not justify a subscription cost like it's fucking World of Warcraft. Actual fully featured games like The Old Republic can't maintain a subscriber base, and meanwhile here's Microsoft trying to charge for the quintessential example of a free title. It'd be like McDonald's suddenly charging $3 for each packet of Fancy Ketchup, it's just not done. Sorry the realities of the computer market since 1995 made this brief, unimportant statement at the start of the video confusing for you.

    Calling his sourced statements "not significant" doesn't actually make it so. Extremely siloed departments, mistrust and poor communication from the top execs, and alienation of top talent are all EXTREMELY bad things for any corporation, much less a creative company. Even if they fully successfully hit the targets of mobile and pachinko gaming (not especially likely, but sure why not), these issues of institutional rot will end up costing them down the line. Did you miss the part where they demoted Producers to Janitor roles? And no, naming another shitty business where they also do terrible, counterproductive things is not even worth saying. Because... uh yes, more than one company can be bad, what is your point?

    Regarding the dick thing, you're ignoring the glorious edict, so it doesn't really matter what you're trying to say by doing so.

    Don't feel like typing too many new words so, here's what I said earlier regarding the Solitaire issue and such:
    Eh, don't see the point of going back and forth on this yet again, but sans reductionist reasoning—as in, looking the actual thing being sold and not thinking that it's the same win32 solitaire/etc that's been prepacked with windows forever but instead features a few other gametypes, daily challenges, Xbox live achievements, etc—it's not blindly laughable. Are these things a person may not be interested in? Sure, absolutely! Wouldn't pay for it then (Win 8), won't pay for it now (Win 10). At its core though, you're simply paying to eliminate ads; not buy the thing. That said, it's been a dead horse debate to me long before Windows 10 made it relevant once more and the drive for manufactured outrage/clicks brought it to the fore again and it's OT... but yeah.

    You basically just regurgitated the reductionist reasoning that I mentioned before right down to the 1995 reference. Whereas his presentation of said joke immediately appealed to you and your perspective, it did not work for me at all. The product is still free. It has ads, and has had them since Windows 8.X. This is old news, and laughing and just saying the name in ignorance of that fact doesn't do it for me. Some of you guys like him and the presentation of his arguments may be appealing to you, but he's not all that entertaining to me and the arguments in the videos of his that I've seen are often flawed and weak as far as I'm concerned... neither Jim Sterling or myself are damaged in any way by this. There's not much else to say there, but your post doesn't sway my opinion in any way.

    Donniction and I dropped this several days ago—and just as with him we will not see eye to eye on this because I largely disagree with your perspectives—you should also drop it.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    Eh, don't see the point of going back and forth on this yet again

    doin' a good job at this, champ

    anyway it's pretty obvious why they're charging a monthly fee for solitaire--you have to pay for the server doing the physics sim on all the cards somehow

    giphy.gif

    l3icwZV.png
    agoajSaraLunaHounStormwatcherSweeney TomMegaMek
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Do you think it's trademarked?Registered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    Eh, don't see the point of going back and forth on this yet again

    doin' a good job at this, champ

    anyway it's pretty obvious why they're charging a monthly fee for solitaire--you have to pay for the server doing the physics sim on all the cards somehow

    giphy.gif

    Aww.

    It didn't quite fill the entire screen.

    I hate it when that happens.

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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    He apparently thinks he's cursed.

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    my takeaway is that kojima's gonna do a screenplay with him

    KoopahTroopah
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    What could possibly go wrong?

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • EmperorSethEmperorSeth Registered User regular
    What could possibly go wrong?

    ...wait, they're making a Bubsy movie?

    You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
    HounStormwatchercloudeagleBahamutZERO
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular

    Good job, Konami.

    We definitely needed yet more talent being driven out of the industry.


    Goddamn fucks.

    With Love and Courage
    Professor SnugglesworthSweeney TomArthil
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »

    Good job, Konami.

    We definitely needed yet more talent being driven out of the industry.


    Goddamn fucks.

    Have you noticed that all of the Konami news has actually gotten worse with each passing week?

    I suppose next week we'll get a news report about their human sacrifices or secret underground Cthulu worship cult.

    Sweeney Tom
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    Del Toro and Kojima could announce they're doing a Kickstarter for a horror game, and it would reach its goal in probably less than a day. We'll see some sweet Kojima/ Del Toro game collab some day.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Aren't Japanese companies supposed to be, like, really sensitive about their image & prestige?

    Or is that just Weeabo nonsense?

    With Love and Courage
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Aren't Japanese companies supposed to be, like, really sensitive about their image & prestige?

    Or is that just Weeabo nonsense?

    Little of both, really.


    That Bubsy movie needs to happen. A gritty reboot along the lines of Pan's Labyrinth. Norman Reedus can be the VA.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
    Houn
  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    Japanese companies are concerned about losing face, which is different. It might entail keeping the respect of your customers or it might entail keeping the respect of some other nebulous element which involves actively hurting your customers.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    The Ender wrote: »
    Aren't Japanese companies supposed to be, like, really sensitive about their image & prestige?

    Or is that just Weeabo nonsense?

    While I do think Konami's an example worth remembering in regards to the video game industry which--historically--is known to be quite horrible, even during the golden age when hookers and blow were being passed around in celebratory manners at companies like Atari, I'd be wary of using it as a standard across employments in a whole country. Which is not to say there aren't horrible Japanese employers, make no mistake. I wouldn't claim that at all.

    Part of it is, in the end, is circumstance. A lot of what we're thinking of is reinforced by anecdotal evidence, the same as happened when horror stories started coming out of EA or non-video game employers (or as is happening with Amazon right now), as well as non-hearsay. An interesting part, to me, of the whole Konami blow-out was the flood of American observers who said, in what should not have been surprising in retrospect, "Yeah, that really sucks--but that sounds like my job. Except I don't develop video games, I stock shelves at x and they will threaten me if I stop walking fast enough." This shouldn't be surprising, the third largest employer in the United States is McDonalds, and the first largest is Wal-Mart, the company that famously takes insurance policies out on its employees in case they happen to drop dead. They're not alone, of course, they're just...the largest employer in the United States and happen to do it (for more than a third of a million workers back in 2007).

    I'm in no way defending Konami--the last thing I really liked from them, in all honest, was probably the Parodius series of arcade games, and I made my peace with those coming to an end a while ago, but those particular complaints only hit home to me because the United States is the first place I've worked professional where my talking to my supervisor gave me severe anxiety attacks to the point of hyperventilating. More than once. Also, unsurprisingly, involved making very plain and direct threats to my employment.

    And my work experience includes, "Conscript soldier in an former right-wing military dictatorship." Emphasis on 'former' of course.

    Again--not trying to defend Konami, not claiming there aren't horrible Japanese employers, just offering some context. The fact that I'm still at that job, naturally, shades my attitudes on the subject. There were times where, if given opportunity, I absolutely would have gone back to doing amateur road construction and maintenance (with a minor in doing officer's laundry).

    'Course, this is the not the "My boss threatened me twice this week and I'm having a panic attack," thread, so I'll stop there. As people who love video games, it's natural for us to think that people who make them should be treated well--I bet we feel the same way about airline pilots on food stamps (let's say we love not dying in aircraft crashes). Ideally, labor in general would be treated well. But more specifically, I think that video game developers being treated poorly more often then well, in the face of so much evidence (even with the transformation towards small studios) is something we're going to need to stop being surprised about.

    Be mad as hell, of course, by all means.

    Synthesis on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    This probably doesn't mean Universal will order NBC Universal Geneon to make that Parodius OVA that I've wanted for years, will it?

    :(

    Synthesis on
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    It's not entirely about the fact that shitty working conditions happen, it's the fact that it can happen to such high profile developer groups such as KojiPro and such high profile names like Kojima, people who act as some of the main public faces of their company.

    If this is true, then it's probably going to be somewhere along the lines of "here, have this giant pile of money so you can make a subsidiary and leverage your ridiculous brand power to sell more shit for us".

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    tencent to force kojima to make league of legends skins within 5 years

  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    Or that.
    Please don't be that. :(

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    I can't imagine many companies would be cool with Kojima's 'it's done when it's done' style of development.

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  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    I can't imagine many companies would be cool with Kojima's 'it's done when it's done' style of development.

    Valve hires Kojima to work on Half Life 3.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    I can't imagine many companies would be cool with Kojima's 'it's done when it's done' style of development.

    Square-Enix (shouldn't have to elaborate)
    Nintendo (every Zelda)
    Sony (The Last Guardian)
    Valve (every game)
    Blizzard (pretty much the same)

    No I don't think Kojima is outrageous. He hasn't, say, missed a console generation or switched engines years into development. He even did spinoffs (Acid) and chased trends (online multiplayer) when he was asked (?) to.

    BRIAN BLESSEDCommodore75vagrant_windsUnco-ordinatedKoopahTroopahDrovekStranger DangerDusdaSweeney TomTurkey
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    I feel Kojima is one of the timeliest "it's done when it's done" developers.

    Dehumanizedvagrant_windsSynthesisBurnagePanda4YouBlackDragon480FawstFleur de AlysfrandelgearslipDusdaSweeney TomTurkey
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    Hey look, Konami is pretending your opinion is worth a damn!

    http://mobilesurvey.blicx.com/?

    BRIAN BLESSED
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