Here's the issue with the idea that Jay Garrick is actually Zoom, if I'm understanding the current theories correctly.
Barry closed every single portal between the universes besides the one under Star Labs, and that portal isn't working right now. So ever since they left Jay has been trapped on Earth 1. So how could he capture Barry on Earth 2 as Zoom?
Who told everyone that the Speed Cannon was unstable? Jay Garrick! Who built it? Jay Garrick! Who is the only one on Earth 1 with the knowledge to repair it? Jay Garrick!
Remember, Caitlin is a Bio-Engineer not a quantum physicist. She doesn't have the know-how to fix the Speed Cannon or determine if Jay is lying. Not to mention, he could have used Super Speed to sabotage the portal and Joe and Caitlin would have no idea he did it. With Caitlin giving him googly eyes, she isn't going to get suspicious. The Speed Cannon is not broken, that is a fiction he created to trap them. At this point, Jay Garrick has complete control over the Speed Cannon. That gives him a ridiculous amount of power.
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kaceypwe stayed bright as lightningwe sang loud as thunderRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
I suddenly had a completely random realization, once again having nothing to do with current events. You remember the speed mirage that Wells made to make it look like he was getting attacked by Reverse Flash?
So...in order to pull that off doesn't that mean that Wells, in superspeed, was constantly putting on and taking off his Reverse Flash outfit? Just like, god knows how many times. Over and over.
I suddenly had a completely random realization, once again having nothing to do with current events. You remember the speed mirage that Wells made to make it look like he was getting attacked by Reverse Flash?
So...in order to pull that off doesn't that mean that Wells, in superspeed, was constantly putting on and taking off his Reverse Flash outfit? Just like, god knows how many times. Over and over.
I suddenly had a completely random realization, once again having nothing to do with current events. You remember the speed mirage that Wells made to make it look like he was getting attacked by Reverse Flash?
So...in order to pull that off doesn't that mean that Wells, in superspeed, was constantly putting on and taking off his Reverse Flash outfit? Just like, god knows how many times. Over and over.
Even with the ring, that is dedication.
I don't think that was necessarily done with mirages. Wasn't it a video recording? Could be misrembering I guess.
There I was, 3DS: 2621-2671-9899 (Ekera), Wii U: LostCrescendo
I suddenly had a completely random realization, once again having nothing to do with current events. You remember the speed mirage that Wells made to make it look like he was getting attacked by Reverse Flash?
So...in order to pull that off doesn't that mean that Wells, in superspeed, was constantly putting on and taking off his Reverse Flash outfit? Just like, god knows how many times. Over and over.
Even with the ring, that is dedication.
I don't think that was necessarily done with mirages. Wasn't it a video recording? Could be misrembering I guess.
I'm actually curious because if the portals needed the speedforce to work then how did Jay or Wells get through it?
With Harry, that is a question that the characters probably should have asked, but as viewers we know that Wells was sent by Zoom to infiltrate the team, so I think it's a safe assumption that Zoom just carried him through. (This is also presumably how the other metahumans got through.)
With Jay, again, that's something that someone should be asking themselves at some point, but it definitely suggests there's more to Jay than he's letting on - of course, given what we recently learned, it could well be that he took a hit of Velocity to get through the portal to seek help.
I've been assuming that he fell through as he lost his powers to Zoom
I've also been assuming he mostly has been telling the truth. His final confrontation with Zoom was like "Fight. Lose. Get Speed Taken. Oh no, in different universe"
On the plus side, at least speedsters get the respect they deserve on Earth 2.
All the metas are happy talking about how great and godlike they are until Zoom shows up, then all that "We could be gods" bologna kind of goes up in smoke.
On the plus side, at least speedsters get the respect they deserve on Earth 2.
All the metas are happy talking about how great and godlike they are until Zoom shows up, then all that "We could be gods" bologna kind of goes up in smoke.
Killer Frost is basically a human freeze gun she is very capable of beating Zoom with the support she has. Reverb could probably plan a perfect attack using her and deathstorm
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NONE of them have a chance. None. Zoom could kill them all before they knew he moved. You'd need to be bullet proof just to start.
Though, giving the Speedsters usual lack of speeding they could at least TRY. They'd still fail, but.
This is not true. Killer Frost lays down a layer of ice over everything reducing friction to nil. Once he slips up, Deathstorm lays it on from the air. To avoid damage, he'll vibrate himself. Reverb matches his vibration and shatters his nervous system. He'll heal but not before Deathstorm has burned him to a crisp. Bulletproof wouldn't do crap to protect you from a vibration attack from Zoom.
We only know he's Jay because that is what he told everyone. On E2, Jay could be the made up name while Hunter is the name of the actual person.
I means sure, he would have had to come up with it before he went public with his powers, but that isn't too outside of the realm of possibility. Especially since he's not been shown to ever wear a mask.
We only know he's Jay because that is what he told everyone. On E2, Jay could be the made up name while Hunter is the name of the actual person.
I means sure, he would have had to come up with it before he went public with his powers, but that isn't too outside of the realm of possibility. Especially since he's not been shown to ever wear a mask.
The big thing that makes me think Jay is on the level, is that Reverse Flash was fucking terrified of the helmet when it came through. He may not have been honest about his powers, but I don't think he's Zoom.
And of course as I type that I realize it could be taken either way. Hmmm...
NONE of them have a chance. None. Zoom could kill them all before they knew he moved. You'd need to be bullet proof just to start.
Though, giving the Speedsters usual lack of speeding they could at least TRY. They'd still fail, but.
This is not true. Killer Frost lays down a layer of ice over everything reducing friction to nil. Once he slips up, Deathstorm lays it on from the air. To avoid damage, he'll vibrate himself. Reverb matches his vibration and shatters his nervous system. He'll heal but not before Deathstorm has burned him to a crisp. Bulletproof wouldn't do crap to protect you from a vibration attack from Zoom.
Well, this is the problem with fiction, I guess. As presented they are all scared of him. Why if they can take him out?
Also as presented Speedsters are just too fast. She doesn't have time to lay down any ice. No one has time to do jack. Unless they do, because plot lets them. Which it does, otherwise boring, but it works better for why they work for him and cringe and die instead of telling him to fuck off.
I'm actually curious because if the portals needed the speedforce to work then how did Jay or Wells get through it?
With Harry, that is a question that the characters probably should have asked, but as viewers we know that Wells was sent by Zoom to infiltrate the team, so I think it's a safe assumption that Zoom just carried him through. (This is also presumably how the other metahumans got through.)
With Jay, again, that's something that someone should be asking themselves at some point, but it definitely suggests there's more to Jay than he's letting on - of course, given what we recently learned, it could well be that he took a hit of Velocity to get through the portal to seek help.
We actually see Zoom bringing several metahumans into Earth-1 through the portals. But when we see Wells appear through the portal he isn't brought in by Zoom.
NONE of them have a chance. None. Zoom could kill them all before they knew he moved. You'd need to be bullet proof just to start.
Though, giving the Speedsters usual lack of speeding they could at least TRY. They'd still fail, but.
This is not true. Killer Frost lays down a layer of ice over everything reducing friction to nil. Once he slips up, Deathstorm lays it on from the air. To avoid damage, he'll vibrate himself. Reverb matches his vibration and shatters his nervous system. He'll heal but not before Deathstorm has burned him to a crisp. Bulletproof wouldn't do crap to protect you from a vibration attack from Zoom.
Well, this is the problem with fiction, I guess. As presented they are all scared of him. Why if they can take him out?
Also as presented Speedsters are just too fast. She doesn't have time to lay down any ice. No one has time to do jack. Unless they do, because plot lets them. Which it does, otherwise boring, but it works better for why they work for him and cringe and die instead of telling him to fuck off.
Reverb can see the future. Its pretty clear he felt with Cisco and his goons he'd be able to take down Zoom
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
NONE of them have a chance. None. Zoom could kill them all before they knew he moved. You'd need to be bullet proof just to start.
Though, giving the Speedsters usual lack of speeding they could at least TRY. They'd still fail, but.
This is not true. Killer Frost lays down a layer of ice over everything reducing friction to nil. Once he slips up, Deathstorm lays it on from the air. To avoid damage, he'll vibrate himself. Reverb matches his vibration and shatters his nervous system. He'll heal but not before Deathstorm has burned him to a crisp. Bulletproof wouldn't do crap to protect you from a vibration attack from Zoom.
Well, this is the problem with fiction, I guess. As presented they are all scared of him. Why if they can take him out?
Also as presented Speedsters are just too fast. She doesn't have time to lay down any ice. No one has time to do jack. Unless they do, because plot lets them. Which it does, otherwise boring, but it works better for why they work for him and cringe and die instead of telling him to fuck off.
Reverb can see the future. Its pretty clear he felt with Cisco and his goons he'd be able to take down Zoom
What if Reverb is Zoom? No one would see that coming.
NONE of them have a chance. None. Zoom could kill them all before they knew he moved. You'd need to be bullet proof just to start.
Though, giving the Speedsters usual lack of speeding they could at least TRY. They'd still fail, but.
This is not true. Killer Frost lays down a layer of ice over everything reducing friction to nil. Once he slips up, Deathstorm lays it on from the air. To avoid damage, he'll vibrate himself. Reverb matches his vibration and shatters his nervous system. He'll heal but not before Deathstorm has burned him to a crisp. Bulletproof wouldn't do crap to protect you from a vibration attack from Zoom.
Well, this is the problem with fiction, I guess. As presented they are all scared of him. Why if they can take him out?
Also as presented Speedsters are just too fast. She doesn't have time to lay down any ice. No one has time to do jack. Unless they do, because plot lets them. Which it does, otherwise boring, but it works better for why they work for him and cringe and die instead of telling him to fuck off.
The reason they don't rise up is trust. Maybe Killer Frost and Firestorm trust each other but neither of them have a killshot against Zoom without Reverb. Basically, this is Batman's "Cowardly Lot" theory in practice.
The guy with vibration powers being killed by a vibration attack seems like it leaves some wiggle room for whether he could survive it or not.
It seems like a waste, even if Reverb's purpose turns out to just be a means of communicating to the audience, and Cisco, the potential for his powers.
It also really undercuts the whole "strong enough to run this city" thing having Zoom strike him down. If we were meant to think Cisco could become a powerhouse, ganking him with little visible effort ain't the way to do it.
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Remember, Caitlin is a Bio-Engineer not a quantum physicist. She doesn't have the know-how to fix the Speed Cannon or determine if Jay is lying. Not to mention, he could have used Super Speed to sabotage the portal and Joe and Caitlin would have no idea he did it. With Caitlin giving him googly eyes, she isn't going to get suspicious. The Speed Cannon is not broken, that is a fiction he created to trap them. At this point, Jay Garrick has complete control over the Speed Cannon. That gives him a ridiculous amount of power.
So...in order to pull that off doesn't that mean that Wells, in superspeed, was constantly putting on and taking off his Reverse Flash outfit? Just like, god knows how many times. Over and over.
Even with the ring, that is dedication.
Zoom is very determined.
I don't think that was necessarily done with mirages. Wasn't it a video recording? Could be misrembering I guess.
Hologram.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
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Eddie's kind of dead at the moment. Didn't Ronnie, Dr. Snow's fiancee, get sucked into a portal?
And yes he did.
With Harry, that is a question that the characters probably should have asked, but as viewers we know that Wells was sent by Zoom to infiltrate the team, so I think it's a safe assumption that Zoom just carried him through. (This is also presumably how the other metahumans got through.)
With Jay, again, that's something that someone should be asking themselves at some point, but it definitely suggests there's more to Jay than he's letting on - of course, given what we recently learned, it could well be that he took a hit of Velocity to get through the portal to seek help.
I've also been assuming he mostly has been telling the truth. His final confrontation with Zoom was like "Fight. Lose. Get Speed Taken. Oh no, in different universe"
And since Hunter is also Jay...
All that build up about being a god makes me think he needs Zoom to think he's dead so he can train Cisco
All the metas are happy talking about how great and godlike they are until Zoom shows up, then all that "We could be gods" bologna kind of goes up in smoke.
Killer Frost is basically a human freeze gun she is very capable of beating Zoom with the support she has. Reverb could probably plan a perfect attack using her and deathstorm
Though, giving the Speedsters usual lack of speeding they could at least TRY. They'd still fail, but.
This is not true. Killer Frost lays down a layer of ice over everything reducing friction to nil. Once he slips up, Deathstorm lays it on from the air. To avoid damage, he'll vibrate himself. Reverb matches his vibration and shatters his nervous system. He'll heal but not before Deathstorm has burned him to a crisp. Bulletproof wouldn't do crap to protect you from a vibration attack from Zoom.
I means sure, he would have had to come up with it before he went public with his powers, but that isn't too outside of the realm of possibility. Especially since he's not been shown to ever wear a mask.
The big thing that makes me think Jay is on the level, is that Reverse Flash was fucking terrified of the helmet when it came through. He may not have been honest about his powers, but I don't think he's Zoom.
And of course as I type that I realize it could be taken either way. Hmmm...
Well, this is the problem with fiction, I guess. As presented they are all scared of him. Why if they can take him out?
Also as presented Speedsters are just too fast. She doesn't have time to lay down any ice. No one has time to do jack. Unless they do, because plot lets them. Which it does, otherwise boring, but it works better for why they work for him and cringe and die instead of telling him to fuck off.
We actually see Zoom bringing several metahumans into Earth-1 through the portals. But when we see Wells appear through the portal he isn't brought in by Zoom.
This brings up something I wanted to point out.
I LOVE that Deathstorm and Killer Frost are the Earth-2 equivalent of Heat Wave and Captain Cold.
Reverb can see the future. Its pretty clear he felt with Cisco and his goons he'd be able to take down Zoom
What if Reverb is Zoom? No one would see that coming.
We never did learn his full capabilities.
The reason they don't rise up is trust. Maybe Killer Frost and Firestorm trust each other but neither of them have a killshot against Zoom without Reverb. Basically, this is Batman's "Cowardly Lot" theory in practice.
I heard this in the voice of spinner the boxer in Death To Smoochy I'm sorry pony.
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I think both Ciscos can probably vibe at the same frequency effectively doubling their powers
Double the powers, you say?!
You really think he could bounce back from that?
It seems like a waste, even if Reverb's purpose turns out to just be a means of communicating to the audience, and Cisco, the potential for his powers.
It also really undercuts the whole "strong enough to run this city" thing having Zoom strike him down. If we were meant to think Cisco could become a powerhouse, ganking him with little visible effort ain't the way to do it.