Roughly, the young, left-wing, highly-educated and upper-to-middle class want to stay in the EU. The elderly, right-wing, working class and those with low levels of education are more likely to want to leave.
Roughly, the young, left-wing, highly-educated and upper-to-middle class want to stay in the EU. The elderly, right-wing, working class and those with low levels of education are more likely to want to leave.
No real surprises in this.
You know, the sad thing about this is that there are legitimate problems with the EU that someone who officially wants to stay in the EU could have tried to steer reform on, but it feels like Cameron's deal bypasses them entirely in favour of pandering.
Overall we want to stay, but there are huge cultural differences, based on who you voted for: For Unionist voters just over half want to leave, and there's a huge undecided gap so that could easily grow. Meanwhile the Nationalist and Other voters have a minimum 80% lock on stay.
I think it's blatant bribery of MPs threatening to revolt and shoring up their seats rather than an attempt to punish non-Tory voters. It's still appalling.
Stuff like the soft money change and the unions bill are definite measures to deliberately harm other parties, though.
No surprises on the NI unionists wanting to leave the EU really. They definitely fall under the "right wing" category at least. I'd love to know where farmers/rural communities stand on it though, considering they're among the biggest beneficiaries.
In other NI politics related news, we have the attorney general apparently not understanding the "fatal" part in "fatal foetal abnormality" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35541426
For a bit of background, the abortion law over here is horribly out of date and with the evangelicals in power any attempt to actually bring it up to date has been stalled or outright killed. Despite this, it's very hard even for them to publicly argue against abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormality. To give an idea of how fatal we're talking about, it includes stuff like not developing a brain at all. The attorney general, John Larkin, is arguing that it's merely a disability. This isn't the first time he's intervened on "religious" issues either.
So basically just another "help I'm trapped in a theocracy" post today then.
I want to say that I have a hard time imagining a positive end-game for the Tories with this Junior Doctor debacle, but I'm depressingly aware that the voting public is probably going to have forgotten about it completely by the time of the next election.
Just a heads up, Hunt is on Newsnight tonight. Unfortunately not being interviewed by James O'Brien, but hopefully he gets challenged slightly. Not that he'll change his standard line of bullshit.
Can we just have a batch of Paxman clones or something?
+1
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
Andrew Neil to present all BBC political shows . That man won't take bullshit for an answer , to the extent that no senior party official of any stripe bar ukip will go near him, and that's because they dont have any juniors to send out as sacrificial goats.
I thought the official line was stay if Dave could get... something to do with immigrants out of Europe?
It's fun to joke about, but somewhat depressing when you see that the UK has practically no influence in Europe due to Cameron's inability as a statesman.
No the depressing thing is that Cameron is probably the best statesman in Westminster.
Well, of the options for Prime Minister anyway. As much as it pains me to say it Sturgeon is far less incompetent but since the SNP don't run outside of Scotland she will never be Prime Minister of the UK.
The thought of Corbyn representing the UK on the international stage brings me out in a cold sweat.
0
Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
So, it's apparently not enough to destroy your enemies. For Jeremy, you must bathe in their tears/lunch money, whilst furiously masturbating to visions of how great and well-respected you surely are. /s
So let's play a game. "Is this headline misleading or not?" Because I'm not sure
I was just in the shop, and the Sun's headline was ULSTER SAYS GO, with a sub-headline about Brexit
My immediate thought: "A poll suggests Northern Ireland wants to leave the EU?"
Reading the actual blurb, the poll in question shows that 60% of Unionists want to leave, with a follow up that Nationalists overwhelmingly want to stay.
So my follow up thought: "Oh, it's an obvious reference to Ian Paisley, who was decisively Unionist, so maybe I should have inferred it was a headline about one side over the other in the first place?"
My instincts still think it's bullshit, but as always I like to get external validation for this feeling.
RMS, I think it's just a weaselly way of claiming support for leaving the EU is higher than it actually is, like the Express "92%" headline from last week. They are careful not to say Northern Ireland and use Ulster instead so it can be claimed as technically true though also very misleading.
At least, that's how I'd read the headline in England. Ulster may be commonly used to mean just the Nationalist population in Norn Iron itself.
RMS, I think it's just a weaselly way of claiming support for leaving the EU is higher than it actually is, like the Express "92%" headline from last week. They are careful not to say Northern Ireland and use Ulster instead so it can be claimed as technically true though also very misleading.
At least, that's how I'd read the headline in England. Ulster may be commonly used to mean just the Nationalist population in Norn Iron itself.
Ulster and Norn Iron are not the same things technically, but in common parlance it's generally obvious enough that you're talking about the latter when you say the former. The deception here lies in co-opting the famous peace of rhetoric so you can use its reference as a defense
What Cameron wanted: A four-year freeze on in-work benefits for EU citizens working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, David Cameron made a crucial concession that the changes would not apply to EU workers already in Britain, only to new arrivals. This left one problem to solve at the summit: how long Britain could keep special rules in place. The British government wanted to keep the emergency brake in place for 13 years, but the Visegrád group of four central European countries (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic) arrived at the summit with a starting bid of five years.
What he’s got: The consensus settled on seven years, which matches the time period other western countries had to keep eastern Europeans out of their labour markets. Britain was one of a handful of countries that allowed eastern European workers into its labour market, after the EU enlargement of 2004. The seven-year emergency brake cannot be extended.
Child benefits
What Cameron wanted: Before the negotiations got serious, Cameron wanted to stop all payments of child benefit going to children living outside the UK, whose parents are working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, the UK relaxed this demand, so child benefit would merely be indexed to the standard of living in the country where the offspring are based. Despite this concession – and the relatively small sums at stake – child benefits caused one of the biggest rows at the summit, as the Visegrád countries opposed other countries taking advantage.
What he’s got: Child benefit payments will be indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK, under new EU legislation. This will apply to new arrivals to the UK, once legislation has been passed, and to all workers from 1 January 2020.
Stronger protection for non-euro v eurozone
What Cameron wanted: Safeguards to protect countries outside the eurozone against regulation made by those inside was at the top of prime minister’s wishlist in the Bloomberg speech. Specifically, he wanted any non-eurozone country to be able to stall new regulations for the currency union, by triggering further discussions among EU leaders of the proposals.
What he’s got: In a surprising win for Cameron, only one euro ‘out’ will be able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws. Other EU leaders agreed to this because neither the UK, nor any other country, would have a veto. The tactic can be used to delay, but not to stop eurozone laws.
Ever-closer union
What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.
What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.”
I'm already so sick of constantly being bombarded by this... another four months (at current estimates) of referendum talk and now the campaigns is going to suck, but better that than it dragging into next year. Although the divisions it will unearth still will.
At this point I'm just hoping all the Leave "figureheads" just fight amongst themselves enough to provide the rest of us some comedy. I'm sure Nigel's warming up his pint-quaffing hand as we speak.
What Cameron wanted: A four-year freeze on in-work benefits for EU citizens working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, David Cameron made a crucial concession that the changes would not apply to EU workers already in Britain, only to new arrivals. This left one problem to solve at the summit: how long Britain could keep special rules in place. The British government wanted to keep the emergency brake in place for 13 years, but the Visegrád group of four central European countries (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic) arrived at the summit with a starting bid of five years.
What he’s got: The consensus settled on seven years, which matches the time period other western countries had to keep eastern Europeans out of their labour markets. Britain was one of a handful of countries that allowed eastern European workers into its labour market, after the EU enlargement of 2004. The seven-year emergency brake cannot be extended.
Child benefits
What Cameron wanted: Before the negotiations got serious, Cameron wanted to stop all payments of child benefit going to children living outside the UK, whose parents are working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, the UK relaxed this demand, so child benefit would merely be indexed to the standard of living in the country where the offspring are based. Despite this concession – and the relatively small sums at stake – child benefits caused one of the biggest rows at the summit, as the Visegrád countries opposed other countries taking advantage.
What he’s got: Child benefit payments will be indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK, under new EU legislation. This will apply to new arrivals to the UK, once legislation has been passed, and to all workers from 1 January 2020.
Stronger protection for non-euro v eurozone
What Cameron wanted: Safeguards to protect countries outside the eurozone against regulation made by those inside was at the top of prime minister’s wishlist in the Bloomberg speech. Specifically, he wanted any non-eurozone country to be able to stall new regulations for the currency union, by triggering further discussions among EU leaders of the proposals.
What he’s got: In a surprising win for Cameron, only one euro ‘out’ will be able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws. Other EU leaders agreed to this because neither the UK, nor any other country, would have a veto. The tactic can be used to delay, but not to stop eurozone laws.
Ever-closer union
What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.
What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.”
I'm already so sick of constantly being bombarded by this... another four months (at current estimates) of referendum talk and now the campaigns is going to suck, but better that than it dragging into next year. Although the divisions it will unearth still will.
At this point I'm just hoping all the Leave "figureheads" just fight amongst themselves enough to provide the rest of us some comedy. I'm sure Nigel's warming up his pint-quaffing hand as we speak.
Posts
Breakdown's here.
Roughly, the young, left-wing, highly-educated and upper-to-middle class want to stay in the EU. The elderly, right-wing, working class and those with low levels of education are more likely to want to leave.
No real surprises in this.
You know, the sad thing about this is that there are legitimate problems with the EU that someone who officially wants to stay in the EU could have tried to steer reform on, but it feels like Cameron's deal bypasses them entirely in favour of pandering.
I noticed that poll was mainland Great Britain, so I dug up a Northern Ireland specific one from November.
Overall we want to stay, but there are huge cultural differences, based on who you voted for: For Unionist voters just over half want to leave, and there's a huge undecided gap so that could easily grow. Meanwhile the Nationalist and Other voters have a minimum 80% lock on stay.
Stuff like the soft money change and the unions bill are definite measures to deliberately harm other parties, though.
EDIT: the stuff from last page.
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The leave camp is made up of the elderly, those lacking much formal education and small business owners.
Stay is made up of the more middle class guardian reader type
Annoyingly I seemed to miss the one that talked about the flexible middle
Edit: well done to Burnage for digging out a better answer and beating me to the punch
In other NI politics related news, we have the attorney general apparently not understanding the "fatal" part in "fatal foetal abnormality"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35541426
For a bit of background, the abortion law over here is horribly out of date and with the evangelicals in power any attempt to actually bring it up to date has been stalled or outright killed. Despite this, it's very hard even for them to publicly argue against abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormality. To give an idea of how fatal we're talking about, it includes stuff like not developing a brain at all. The attorney general, John Larkin, is arguing that it's merely a disability. This isn't the first time he's intervened on "religious" issues either.
So basically just another "help I'm trapped in a theocracy" post today then.
Utterly depressing. And jives with my own experience as a hospital patient.
Steam | XBL
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
Good job, electorate.
Steam | XBL
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D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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Third base.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
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Redwood sent an email informing every Tory MP why it was their duty to vote for exit no matter their personal beliefs.
Isn't the official party line "stay"?
I care very little what any Tory thinks about anything regarding europe.
It's fun to joke about, but somewhat depressing when you see that the UK has practically no influence in Europe due to Cameron's inability as a statesman.
Well, of the options for Prime Minister anyway. As much as it pains me to say it Sturgeon is far less incompetent but since the SNP don't run outside of Scotland she will never be Prime Minister of the UK.
The thought of Corbyn representing the UK on the international stage brings me out in a cold sweat.
Gotta earn that rhyming slang.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
I was just in the shop, and the Sun's headline was ULSTER SAYS GO, with a sub-headline about Brexit
My immediate thought: "A poll suggests Northern Ireland wants to leave the EU?"
Reading the actual blurb, the poll in question shows that 60% of Unionists want to leave, with a follow up that Nationalists overwhelmingly want to stay.
So my follow up thought: "Oh, it's an obvious reference to Ian Paisley, who was decisively Unionist, so maybe I should have inferred it was a headline about one side over the other in the first place?"
My instincts still think it's bullshit, but as always I like to get external validation for this feeling.
I've been inspired to write a Haiku:
Punch Jeremy Hunt
In his stupid lying face
Multiple times, please.
At least, that's how I'd read the headline in England. Ulster may be commonly used to mean just the Nationalist population in Norn Iron itself.
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Ulster and Norn Iron are not the same things technically, but in common parlance it's generally obvious enough that you're talking about the latter when you say the former. The deception here lies in co-opting the famous peace of rhetoric so you can use its reference as a defense
But like I say, boolsheet
I'm already so sick of constantly being bombarded by this... another four months (at current estimates) of referendum talk and now the campaigns is going to suck, but better that than it dragging into next year. Although the divisions it will unearth still will.
At this point I'm just hoping all the Leave "figureheads" just fight amongst themselves enough to provide the rest of us some comedy. I'm sure Nigel's warming up his pint-quaffing hand as we speak.
Steam | XBL
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/anti-eu-campaigners-secretly-hoping-britain-stays-in-so-they-can-keep-whining-20160219106386
Everyone, including the press there, assumed it was Boris Johnson
It was actually George Galloway
Cue hundreds heading for the exits.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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This scoodenfroody