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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] RIP Jo Cox

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Posts

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    There have been some good pieces on radio 4 about how the leave and stay camps divide up by social class, type of job and level of education

    Which is cool but also quite scary.

    What is the general layout?

    Breakdown's here.

    Roughly, the young, left-wing, highly-educated and upper-to-middle class want to stay in the EU. The elderly, right-wing, working class and those with low levels of education are more likely to want to leave.

    Burnage on
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    There have been some good pieces on radio 4 about how the leave and stay camps divide up by social class, type of job and level of education

    Which is cool but also quite scary.

    What is the general layout?

    Breakdown's here.

    Roughly, the young, left-wing, highly-educated and upper-to-middle class want to stay in the EU. The elderly, right-wing, working class and those with low levels of education are more likely to want to leave.

    No real surprises in this.

    You know, the sad thing about this is that there are legitimate problems with the EU that someone who officially wants to stay in the EU could have tried to steer reform on, but it feels like Cameron's deal bypasses them entirely in favour of pandering.

    I noticed that poll was mainland Great Britain, so I dug up a Northern Ireland specific one from November.

    Overall we want to stay, but there are huge cultural differences, based on who you voted for: For Unionist voters just over half want to leave, and there's a huge undecided gap so that could easily grow. Meanwhile the Nationalist and Other voters have a minimum 80% lock on stay.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2016
    I think it's blatant bribery of MPs threatening to revolt and shoring up their seats rather than an attempt to punish non-Tory voters. It's still appalling.

    Stuff like the soft money change and the unions bill are definite measures to deliberately harm other parties, though.

    EDIT: the stuff from last page.

    Bogart on
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    There have been some good pieces on radio 4 about how the leave and stay camps divide up by social class, type of job and level of education

    Which is cool but also quite scary.

    What is the general layout?

    The leave camp is made up of the elderly, those lacking much formal education and small business owners.

    Stay is made up of the more middle class guardian reader type

    Annoyingly I seemed to miss the one that talked about the flexible middle

    Edit: well done to Burnage for digging out a better answer and beating me to the punch

    Mojo_Jojo on
    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    No surprises on the NI unionists wanting to leave the EU really. They definitely fall under the "right wing" category at least. I'd love to know where farmers/rural communities stand on it though, considering they're among the biggest beneficiaries.

    In other NI politics related news, we have the attorney general apparently not understanding the "fatal" part in "fatal foetal abnormality"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35541426
    For a bit of background, the abortion law over here is horribly out of date and with the evangelicals in power any attempt to actually bring it up to date has been stalled or outright killed. Despite this, it's very hard even for them to publicly argue against abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormality. To give an idea of how fatal we're talking about, it includes stuff like not developing a brain at all. The attorney general, John Larkin, is arguing that it's merely a disability. This isn't the first time he's intervened on "religious" issues either.

    So basically just another "help I'm trapped in a theocracy" post today then.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    A Junior Doctor explains why they're striking.

    Utterly depressing. And jives with my own experience as a hospital patient.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Oh and Hunt is imposing a contract on them so weeeeeeeee

  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    I like how in the british politics thread reactions are being used in the sarcastic manner that god intended.

  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I want to say that I have a hard time imagining a positive end-game for the Tories with this Junior Doctor debacle, but I'm depressingly aware that the voting public is probably going to have forgotten about it completely by the time of the next election.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Weaponise the NHS, or nuke the NHS.

    Good job, electorate.

  • mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    Just a heads up, Hunt is on Newsnight tonight. Unfortunately not being interviewed by James O'Brien, but hopefully he gets challenged slightly. Not that he'll change his standard line of bullshit.

    Steam: mere_immortal - PSN: mere_immortal - XBL: lego pencil - Wii U: mimmortal - 3DS: 1521-7234-1642 - Bordgamegeek: mere_immortal
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Or lose his perpetual smug smirk.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Can we just have a batch of Paxman clones or something?

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Andrew Neil to present all BBC political shows . That man won't take bullshit for an answer , to the extent that no senior party official of any stripe bar ukip will go near him, and that's because they dont have any juniors to send out as sacrificial goats.

    Snicketysnick on
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    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    So out of curiosity how many of the 50 MP's we're about to lose come from the Conservative party? I'm guessing zero-ish.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Looks like the Independent is closing the print edition. It's been coming for a while, but still a sad day for a paper that once outsold The Times.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    When was the last non-News of the World time a paper closed down?

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    When was the last non-News of the World time a paper closed down?
    Bogart wrote: »
    Maybe Today?

    Third base.

    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    What is the story behind that tweet?

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    The delicious imminent Tory civil over Brexit.

    Redwood sent an email informing every Tory MP why it was their duty to vote for exit no matter their personal beliefs.

    Jam Warrior on
    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    The delicious imminent Tory civil over Brexit.

    Redwood sent an email informing every Tory MP why it was their duty to vote for exit no matter their personal beliefs.

    Isn't the official party line "stay"?

  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    I honestly have no idea at this point. Davey can't make up his mind.

    I care very little what any Tory thinks about anything regarding europe.

    Zilla360 on
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Daves line is that the EU is terrible but we should stay in it because of immigrants. I don't know why you would find that less than clear.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    I thought the official line was stay if Dave could get... something to do with immigrants out of Europe?

    It's fun to joke about, but somewhat depressing when you see that the UK has practically no influence in Europe due to Cameron's inability as a statesman.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    No the depressing thing is that Cameron is probably the best statesman in Westminster.

    Well, of the options for Prime Minister anyway. As much as it pains me to say it Sturgeon is far less incompetent but since the SNP don't run outside of Scotland she will never be Prime Minister of the UK.

    The thought of Corbyn representing the UK on the international stage brings me out in a cold sweat.

  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    So, it's apparently not enough to destroy your enemies. For Jeremy, you must bathe in their tears/lunch money, whilst furiously masturbating to visions of how great and well-respected you surely are. /s

    Zilla360 on
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    So let's play a game. "Is this headline misleading or not?" Because I'm not sure

    I was just in the shop, and the Sun's headline was ULSTER SAYS GO, with a sub-headline about Brexit

    My immediate thought: "A poll suggests Northern Ireland wants to leave the EU?"

    Reading the actual blurb, the poll in question shows that 60% of Unionists want to leave, with a follow up that Nationalists overwhelmingly want to stay.

    So my follow up thought: "Oh, it's an obvious reference to Ian Paisley, who was decisively Unionist, so maybe I should have inferred it was a headline about one side over the other in the first place?"

    My instincts still think it's bullshit, but as always I like to get external validation for this feeling.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular

    I've been inspired to write a Haiku:

    Punch Jeremy Hunt
    In his stupid lying face
    Multiple times, please.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    RMS, I think it's just a weaselly way of claiming support for leaving the EU is higher than it actually is, like the Express "92%" headline from last week. They are careful not to say Northern Ireland and use Ulster instead so it can be claimed as technically true though also very misleading.

    At least, that's how I'd read the headline in England. Ulster may be commonly used to mean just the Nationalist population in Norn Iron itself.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    RMS, I think it's just a weaselly way of claiming support for leaving the EU is higher than it actually is, like the Express "92%" headline from last week. They are careful not to say Northern Ireland and use Ulster instead so it can be claimed as technically true though also very misleading.

    At least, that's how I'd read the headline in England. Ulster may be commonly used to mean just the Nationalist population in Norn Iron itself.

    Ulster and Norn Iron are not the same things technically, but in common parlance it's generally obvious enough that you're talking about the latter when you say the former. The deception here lies in co-opting the famous peace of rhetoric so you can use its reference as a defense

    But like I say, boolsheet

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    So it looks like Cameron got his deal. The Graun's breakdown:
    Emergency brake

    What Cameron wanted: A four-year freeze on in-work benefits for EU citizens working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, David Cameron made a crucial concession that the changes would not apply to EU workers already in Britain, only to new arrivals. This left one problem to solve at the summit: how long Britain could keep special rules in place. The British government wanted to keep the emergency brake in place for 13 years, but the Visegrád group of four central European countries (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic) arrived at the summit with a starting bid of five years.

    What he’s got: The consensus settled on seven years, which matches the time period other western countries had to keep eastern Europeans out of their labour markets. Britain was one of a handful of countries that allowed eastern European workers into its labour market, after the EU enlargement of 2004. The seven-year emergency brake cannot be extended.

    Child benefits

    What Cameron wanted: Before the negotiations got serious, Cameron wanted to stop all payments of child benefit going to children living outside the UK, whose parents are working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, the UK relaxed this demand, so child benefit would merely be indexed to the standard of living in the country where the offspring are based. Despite this concession – and the relatively small sums at stake – child benefits caused one of the biggest rows at the summit, as the Visegrád countries opposed other countries taking advantage.

    What he’s got: Child benefit payments will be indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK, under new EU legislation. This will apply to new arrivals to the UK, once legislation has been passed, and to all workers from 1 January 2020.

    Stronger protection for non-euro v eurozone

    What Cameron wanted: Safeguards to protect countries outside the eurozone against regulation made by those inside was at the top of prime minister’s wishlist in the Bloomberg speech. Specifically, he wanted any non-eurozone country to be able to stall new regulations for the currency union, by triggering further discussions among EU leaders of the proposals.

    What he’s got: In a surprising win for Cameron, only one euro ‘out’ will be able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws. Other EU leaders agreed to this because neither the UK, nor any other country, would have a veto. The tactic can be used to delay, but not to stop eurozone laws.

    Ever-closer union

    What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.

    What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.”

    I'm already so sick of constantly being bombarded by this... another four months (at current estimates) of referendum talk and now the campaigns is going to suck, but better that than it dragging into next year. Although the divisions it will unearth still will.

    At this point I'm just hoping all the Leave "figureheads" just fight amongst themselves enough to provide the rest of us some comedy. I'm sure Nigel's warming up his pint-quaffing hand as we speak.

    Jazz on
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    So it looks like Cameron got his deal. The Graun's breakdown:
    Emergency brake

    What Cameron wanted: A four-year freeze on in-work benefits for EU citizens working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, David Cameron made a crucial concession that the changes would not apply to EU workers already in Britain, only to new arrivals. This left one problem to solve at the summit: how long Britain could keep special rules in place. The British government wanted to keep the emergency brake in place for 13 years, but the Visegrád group of four central European countries (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic) arrived at the summit with a starting bid of five years.

    What he’s got: The consensus settled on seven years, which matches the time period other western countries had to keep eastern Europeans out of their labour markets. Britain was one of a handful of countries that allowed eastern European workers into its labour market, after the EU enlargement of 2004. The seven-year emergency brake cannot be extended.

    Child benefits

    What Cameron wanted: Before the negotiations got serious, Cameron wanted to stop all payments of child benefit going to children living outside the UK, whose parents are working in the UK. Ahead of the summit, the UK relaxed this demand, so child benefit would merely be indexed to the standard of living in the country where the offspring are based. Despite this concession – and the relatively small sums at stake – child benefits caused one of the biggest rows at the summit, as the Visegrád countries opposed other countries taking advantage.

    What he’s got: Child benefit payments will be indexed to the cost of living for children living outside the UK, under new EU legislation. This will apply to new arrivals to the UK, once legislation has been passed, and to all workers from 1 January 2020.

    Stronger protection for non-euro v eurozone

    What Cameron wanted: Safeguards to protect countries outside the eurozone against regulation made by those inside was at the top of prime minister’s wishlist in the Bloomberg speech. Specifically, he wanted any non-eurozone country to be able to stall new regulations for the currency union, by triggering further discussions among EU leaders of the proposals.

    What he’s got: In a surprising win for Cameron, only one euro ‘out’ will be able to force a debate among EU leaders about ‘problem’ eurozone laws. Other EU leaders agreed to this because neither the UK, nor any other country, would have a veto. The tactic can be used to delay, but not to stop eurozone laws.

    Ever-closer union

    What Cameron wanted: a declaration that the treaty motto of “ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” did not apply to the UK. EU leaders had already agreed a special formula of wording in June 2014 that not all member states were on the road to integration, but Cameron wanted something stronger.

    What he’s got: Much more emphatic language, stressing that the UK is not on the road to deeper integration. “It is recognised that the United Kingdom ... is not committed to further political integration in the European Union ... References to ever-closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom.”

    I'm already so sick of constantly being bombarded by this... another four months (at current estimates) of referendum talk and now the campaigns is going to suck, but better that than it dragging into next year. Although the divisions it will unearth still will.

    At this point I'm just hoping all the Leave "figureheads" just fight amongst themselves enough to provide the rest of us some comedy. I'm sure Nigel's warming up his pint-quaffing hand as we speak.

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/anti-eu-campaigners-secretly-hoping-britain-stays-in-so-they-can-keep-whining-20160219106386

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Grassroots Out hosted an event yesterday with 1500 activists there and they hyped up a special mystery guest speaker.

    Everyone, including the press there, assumed it was Boris Johnson

    It was actually George Galloway

    Cue hundreds heading for the exits.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Oh my god I'm still laughing

    This scoodenfroody

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