I saw this linked on the Heroes subreddit and I think it sums up my post-launch matchmaking experiences pretty succinctly: http://gfycat.com/SameWideAdouri
Because there's something very wrong when post-launch matchmaking looks like THIS (spoilered for semi-large):
Compared to these from pre-launch (also spoilered for semi-large):
This isn't just bad luck anymore. I'm consistently getting matched with bad teams. It's fucking awful and it's actively making me enjoy the game less because of it. I have over 500 games played, I should not be getting matched with new players. I just shouldn't.
I mean, yeah, that goes without saying, right? But is that any reason for the matchmaker to suddenly shit the bed and stop working at all? Is that any reason for the matchmaker to just smush together whoever the fuck it feels like instead of trying to find evenly skilled teams?
I know that there's a lot of new players, and I'm not angry at them. But it shouldn't match them with veteran players. It's not a fun experience for either side. New players need to get matched with new players and veterans with veterans.
But for whatever reason the matchmaker isn't doing that, so good luck trying to find good matches I GUESS.
Yeah matchmaking is fucked. Almost every random player you get is totally clueless- And that's just not fun for anyone. Not fun for them because they get bashed in the game and in the chat, and not fun for the rest of the team.
Yeah, matchmaking has felt busted since launch. Just about every game I've played has been a stomp in one direction or the other. It's frustrating as hell.
I mean, yeah, that goes without saying, right? But is that any reason for the matchmaker to suddenly shit the bed and stop working at all? Is that any reason for the matchmaker to just smush together whoever the fuck it feels like instead of trying to find evenly skilled teams?
I know that there's a lot of new players, and I'm not angry at them. But it shouldn't match them with veteran players. It's not a fun experience for either side. New players need to get matched with new players and veterans with veterans.
But for whatever reason the matchmaker isn't doing that, so good luck trying to find good matches I GUESS.
I think mmr is highly flexible at the start.. So the matchmaker has a whole bunch of new players where it basically knows fuck-all, who might all be between "wet paper" and "solid platinum". So they get a preliminary rating of "somewhat good", and then a few games to test that theory. If they lose them, they fall, if they win, they stay or even rise.
It's just immensly frustrating and I hope matchmaking takes number of games played into stronger consideration or new players are generally placed in a lower MMR bracket where they than can rise out of
Yeah, seems if you aren't placed high to begin with you basically get trapped. I guess it's the ELO hell that you run into in LoL or DOTA as well. Hard problem to solve.
Yeah, seems if you aren't placed high to begin with you basically get trapped. I guess it's the ELO hell that you run into in LoL or DOTA as well. Hard problem to solve.
Well for starters, not grouping people with 4 games played with people with 550 games played might help.
Yeah, Nova is kinda trash early game and doesn't contribute a lot. It isn't until really 16 that she can start picking off squishies.
Kills don't matter early game. You are doing far more damage to the enemy team by forcing a lane to empty out / them to use their wells at the wrong time.
Yeah, seems if you aren't placed high to begin with you basically get trapped. I guess it's the ELO hell that you run into in LoL or DOTA as well. Hard problem to solve.
Well for starters, not grouping people with 4 games played with people with 550 games played might help.
One problem is if there is a strong enough player base to do this.
If the numbers aren't there, then you can't do it right off the gate.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
+1
Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
i feel like i constantly get fucked on matchmaking and it gives me a team comp of like 4 assasins and a specialist vs 2 ass/2war/1support
you'd think that would be a pretty easy problem to solve for them..
I really expected Sylvanas to die there. Watching the Gazlowe botch both the opportunity to land a melee hit before dismounting and the laser shot added to the hilarity of Sylvanas's incompetence, though.
I saw this linked on the Heroes subreddit and I think it sums up my post-launch matchmaking experiences pretty succinctly: http://gfycat.com/SameWideAdouri
Because there's something very wrong when post-launch matchmaking looks like THIS (spoilered for semi-large):
Compared to these from pre-launch (also spoilered for semi-large):
This isn't just bad luck anymore. I'm consistently getting matched with bad teams. It's fucking awful and it's actively making me enjoy the game less because of it. I have over 500 games played, I should not be getting matched with new players. I just shouldn't.
My favorite thing about Tychus is when Novas try to pick me off. I hit Stoneskin and drop a Q in their face. Sometimes I have to E to get closer when they run away, realizing they can't hurt me. Usually checkmate them with a slam dunk baseball to the dome. King me.
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think a telling thing about matchmaking is it almost always finds a game in seconds.
Like, it shouldn't be that fast. If it is really trying to make a solid even game it should not be that fast.
I am willing to wait 1 or 2 minutes for a good matchup. But I do not get that.
I had been looking for a win on Nova and Uther for days. Bad games every time. Then the wtf pendulum swung my way and I got a win on each.... both sub 15 minute stomps.
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Azmodunk ( @Pantsb )
Sylvanas ( @Jake Kane ? I can't recall. I know him as the dude without vent)
Kick-assthur ( @Munkus Beaver )
Murky, God of War (myself)
Zagara (someone else I can't recall)
vs. Illidan, Jaina, Valla, Anubarak, and Abathur (who was doing the abathur bait trick (he took garden terror once)
It was so ridiculously one-sided.
We had a 4 lv lead at one point. 15 min game.
I mentally have about 4 timed areas with Nova where I have different goals.
1-6: Probably won't kill anyone but I can help push someone out of a lane and thus exp range. Great for harassing their solo lane. Helping a lane in trouble or just being the hero. Also sometimes killing Murky Eggs and aggressive Abathurs behind their walls. I am mostly a harassing hero with a lot of burst. Great verse teams with poor sustain in a lane.
7-9: First kills come here. Should have enough of a combo to pull out a kill solo now. Find someone hurt and get your gank on. Usually the second objective(temple/curse) is up and you can get into the back lines doing a lot of killing.
10-15: This is a killy time. Most folks don't have their abilities to full negate you but you have gained 25% damage from your decoy. Aggressive decoy play is the name of the game. Get someone to blow a stun or an ability on it then hit. Also scout for your team. Information and location can help you set up a winning team fight.
16+: I have become death to all that wander solo. Well most, not tanks or Tassadar. But he counters most things you can do. At this point you are popping out and taking a squishy from full to 0 with your abilities especially decoys. Check champs. Learn where to shoot over walls. You are death now. Once you get rewind very few squishy will survive a double combo. If you are good or if they are stupid you can keep the game 4v5 for a long time.
I don't think Nova has a poor time period but her goals go from annoying to killing. And I think a lot of Novas forget to join and scout out a team fight. Knowing the enemy position is half your job. This requires knowing maps, camp timings and generally how a team will move by comp. Some folks will solo even late like a Gazlowe or Sylvanas. Others will start moving as a deathball and never leave.
Also never forget to finish off a fort/keep with a snipe and the decoys to tank. This is something again I see many Novas don't do. You do about 1k damage late in the game with just your snipe. 1.2 to 1.5 with decoys. That is about 10% of a keeps health or more.
I just need to do Vs AI for my dailies. I have the win 3 matches daily and I lost 6 matches in a row because NO ONE WILL FUCKING LISTEN and just run around like chickens without heads doing stupid random shit all match.
Was in Blackhearts Bay with a Team Fight going on down by the coin turn in, and our Sylvanas is just up at the top killing minions. I say "Syl, come to the group." and the response I get is YOU WANT TEAM FIGHTS OR XP BRO, CANT HAVE BOTH.
Which is true, since we were behind them by 3 levels, AND the Sylvanas wouldn't contribute to collecting coins or defending the turn in point.
@Dibby You need to stick to Hero League for now. There are a few of us playing games together almost every night, and even our losses are usually enjoyable games. I can't say I've had a truly terrible game in a while. Sure, you still get bad players, but I feel like the bad players in Hero League are still miles ahead of the bad players in Quick Match.
@Dibby You need to stick to Hero League for now. There are a few of us playing games together almost every night, and even our losses are usually enjoyable games. I can't say I've had a truly terrible game in a while. Sure, you still get bad players, but I feel like the bad players in Hero League are still miles ahead of the bad players in Quick Match.
@Dibby You need to stick to Hero League for now. There are a few of us playing games together almost every night, and even our losses are usually enjoyable games. I can't say I've had a truly terrible game in a while. Sure, you still get bad players, but I feel like the bad players in Hero League are still miles ahead of the bad players in Quick Match.
This. SO much this.
You both may have a point...
Plus, yknow, kinda guarantees semi-balanced team comps, even if I have to fill in the role no one else wants. Which is fine since I'm pretty much a jack-of-all-trades anyway.
Sonya is such a monster.
I'm starting to think the cooldown on Berserk should be nerfed to 60 seconds. 45 is just... like... almost permanent.
She's a bit feast-or-famine, I guess. If you have even a tiny lead, you can basically 1v2 any pair of heroes that isn't Jaina & Muradin.
If you're behind, you are pretty screwed and have to go do camps until you're not behind anymore. Which only kinda-sorta works.
Oh yeah, I played Raynor today since he wasn't at level 5 yet and I wanted the free gold. Hadn't played him in a long time so I figured why not.
That was a mistake.
Boy is he average. Just. Whoof. Not even average in a good way either. He is averagely bad. Badly average. Whatever you wanna say about him, it's not good either way. The Q build seems okay, but you're pretty much useless til 16. I tried it once but it didn't really gel with me. Also the goddamn width on Q is SO tiny and I was missing a lot. So I was mostly sticking to the autoattack build, which feels terrible without Searing Attacks anymore. The buff to Focused Attack makes it a little more bearable but still not great.
He just doesn't do enough. He doesn't do anything. Left such a sour taste in my mouth. Got him to 5 and I'm never playing him again unless they give him a pretty major overhaul.
I mean, I agree that Raynor is super average. But I still manage to do pretty well with him. I build almost entirely for his Q. This is my typical Raynor build. Alterations as necessary.
Pretty standard stuff for both, though I'd forgo Seasoned Marksman for Give Me More if I needed to. I had more luck with the autoattack build, I think. Hard to gauge honestly. I was able to get some kills here and there but overall not much luck getting anything done.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I feel like Nova basically is godlike with a level lead and ass with a level deficit.
Like even just 1 level. But 2 or more and she can pretty much drop people willy nilly.
Though it is very obvious there are some people out there that see her stealth effects PERFECTLY and others (like me) not at all. Apparently some setting effects this? But you just start to notice they don't just have a good eye, they 100% pic you out like you aren't even invisible.
2 of my 3 QMs tonight were close games. The last one was ridiculous. Here was the final score:
Garden of Terror
43 kills (us) vs 18 kills
Level 25 (us) vs Level 23
At the end, our core was down to about 30% being beaten on by a Garden Terror when we won the race on their core. With a score like that, you would have expected a fairly clean win, but god damn was that a messy "domination."
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I am always up for hero league.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Azmodunk ( @Pantsb )
Sylvanas ( @Jake Kane ? I can't recall. I know him as the dude without vent)
Kick-assthur ( @Munkus Beaver )
Murky, God of War (myself)
Zagara (someone else I can't recall)
vs. Illidan, Jaina, Valla, Anubarak, and Abathur (who was doing the abathur bait trick (he took garden terror once)
It was so ridiculously one-sided.
We had a 4 lv lead at one point. 15 min game.
JackdawGin.
Was great playing with you guys, and teaching people the pain of specialists.
I've stopped thinking of Raynor as an assassin, honestly. I find that I have a lot more success with him when I consider him to be more of a ranged specialist. As someone who takes Bribe on almost every character that has access to it, I consider Raynor's Recruitment to be one of the best talents in the game.
I bought Abathur and I like him, but I've basically just been tinkering with him in a couple of Vs AI matches. How viable is he in a PvP quickmatch? I can't imagine very since maximizing him depends on team coordination and competent partners.
Like if I wanted to focus on a Locust/Siege build for Quick Match is that viable at all? I'd still pick the clone Ultimate to give my team another body on objective related team fights.
It's viable, though as you said depending on team composition you can do MORE than just siege if you have someone good to hat.
The Monstrosity ult is pretty damn amazing since people will ignore it until it's already done a tone of damage.
I generally take monstrosity. Evolution ult just doesn't seem to last long enough for a proper team fight.
In a pre-made team, Aba is amazing.
He and Illidan collect more tears than they ever intended.
A murky with a hat is a thing to be afraid of. Even with Octograb active on Murk the hat can DPS the hell out of the enemy.
I bought Abathur and I like him, but I've basically just been tinkering with him in a couple of Vs AI matches. How viable is he in a PvP quickmatch? I can't imagine very since maximizing him depends on team coordination and competent partners.
Like if I wanted to focus on a Locust/Siege build for Quick Match is that viable at all? I'd still pick the clone Ultimate to give my team another body on objective related team fights.
He's definitely better on premade teams. His hat build requires good melee partners. Ranged characters make poor hat targets since they tend to hover at max range, which means you won't hit very many spike bursts.
If you do queue in random pickup matches, a locust build is typically a better option. The key is just map awareness. You will still be expected to hat during team fights over objectives even if you're going with a locust build. You need to be ready to help with objectives no matter what talents you take.
If you haven't joined the PA channel, type "/join heroes of the wang." There are plenty of folks playing that you can team up with.
Posts
When we asked him why he had less heal than tyrande, he said
"I am tank"
Which kinda explains why he always ran to the front to get killed...
Because there's something very wrong when post-launch matchmaking looks like THIS (spoilered for semi-large):
Compared to these from pre-launch (also spoilered for semi-large):
This isn't just bad luck anymore. I'm consistently getting matched with bad teams. It's fucking awful and it's actively making me enjoy the game less because of it. I have over 500 games played, I should not be getting matched with new players. I just shouldn't.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Also that video is amazing.
I mean, yeah, that goes without saying, right? But is that any reason for the matchmaker to suddenly shit the bed and stop working at all? Is that any reason for the matchmaker to just smush together whoever the fuck it feels like instead of trying to find evenly skilled teams?
I know that there's a lot of new players, and I'm not angry at them. But it shouldn't match them with veteran players. It's not a fun experience for either side. New players need to get matched with new players and veterans with veterans.
But for whatever reason the matchmaker isn't doing that, so good luck trying to find good matches I GUESS.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Anything other than complete premades suck atm
I think mmr is highly flexible at the start.. So the matchmaker has a whole bunch of new players where it basically knows fuck-all, who might all be between "wet paper" and "solid platinum". So they get a preliminary rating of "somewhat good", and then a few games to test that theory. If they lose them, they fall, if they win, they stay or even rise.
It's just immensly frustrating and I hope matchmaking takes number of games played into stronger consideration or new players are generally placed in a lower MMR bracket where they than can rise out of
Well for starters, not grouping people with 4 games played with people with 550 games played might help.
Kills don't matter early game. You are doing far more damage to the enemy team by forcing a lane to empty out / them to use their wells at the wrong time.
One problem is if there is a strong enough player base to do this.
If the numbers aren't there, then you can't do it right off the gate.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
you'd think that would be a pretty easy problem to solve for them..
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
That physically hurts to watch
Like, it shouldn't be that fast. If it is really trying to make a solid even game it should not be that fast.
I am willing to wait 1 or 2 minutes for a good matchup. But I do not get that.
I had been looking for a win on Nova and Uther for days. Bad games every time. Then the wtf pendulum swung my way and I got a win on each.... both sub 15 minute stomps.
God I missed you, guy.
we did a 5-man premade
Azmodunk ( @Pantsb )
Sylvanas ( @Jake Kane ? I can't recall. I know him as the dude without vent)
Kick-assthur ( @Munkus Beaver )
Murky, God of War (myself)
Zagara (someone else I can't recall)
vs. Illidan, Jaina, Valla, Anubarak, and Abathur (who was doing the abathur bait trick (he took garden terror once)
It was so ridiculously one-sided.
We had a 4 lv lead at one point. 15 min game.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I mentally have about 4 timed areas with Nova where I have different goals.
1-6: Probably won't kill anyone but I can help push someone out of a lane and thus exp range. Great for harassing their solo lane. Helping a lane in trouble or just being the hero. Also sometimes killing Murky Eggs and aggressive Abathurs behind their walls. I am mostly a harassing hero with a lot of burst. Great verse teams with poor sustain in a lane.
7-9: First kills come here. Should have enough of a combo to pull out a kill solo now. Find someone hurt and get your gank on. Usually the second objective(temple/curse) is up and you can get into the back lines doing a lot of killing.
10-15: This is a killy time. Most folks don't have their abilities to full negate you but you have gained 25% damage from your decoy. Aggressive decoy play is the name of the game. Get someone to blow a stun or an ability on it then hit. Also scout for your team. Information and location can help you set up a winning team fight.
16+: I have become death to all that wander solo. Well most, not tanks or Tassadar. But he counters most things you can do. At this point you are popping out and taking a squishy from full to 0 with your abilities especially decoys. Check champs. Learn where to shoot over walls. You are death now. Once you get rewind very few squishy will survive a double combo. If you are good or if they are stupid you can keep the game 4v5 for a long time.
I don't think Nova has a poor time period but her goals go from annoying to killing. And I think a lot of Novas forget to join and scout out a team fight. Knowing the enemy position is half your job. This requires knowing maps, camp timings and generally how a team will move by comp. Some folks will solo even late like a Gazlowe or Sylvanas. Others will start moving as a deathball and never leave.
Also never forget to finish off a fort/keep with a snipe and the decoys to tank. This is something again I see many Novas don't do. You do about 1k damage late in the game with just your snipe. 1.2 to 1.5 with decoys. That is about 10% of a keeps health or more.
Was in Blackhearts Bay with a Team Fight going on down by the coin turn in, and our Sylvanas is just up at the top killing minions. I say "Syl, come to the group." and the response I get is YOU WANT TEAM FIGHTS OR XP BRO, CANT HAVE BOTH.
Which is true, since we were behind them by 3 levels, AND the Sylvanas wouldn't contribute to collecting coins or defending the turn in point.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Fantastic fucking draft guys. Top tier. Let me just be a tanky healing assassin and we're SET.
This. SO much this.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
You both may have a point...
Plus, yknow, kinda guarantees semi-balanced team comps, even if I have to fill in the role no one else wants. Which is fine since I'm pretty much a jack-of-all-trades anyway.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I'm starting to think the cooldown on Berserk should be nerfed to 60 seconds. 45 is just... like... almost permanent.
She's a bit feast-or-famine, I guess. If you have even a tiny lead, you can basically 1v2 any pair of heroes that isn't Jaina & Muradin.
If you're behind, you are pretty screwed and have to go do camps until you're not behind anymore. Which only kinda-sorta works.
That was a mistake.
Boy is he average. Just. Whoof. Not even average in a good way either. He is averagely bad. Badly average. Whatever you wanna say about him, it's not good either way. The Q build seems okay, but you're pretty much useless til 16. I tried it once but it didn't really gel with me. Also the goddamn width on Q is SO tiny and I was missing a lot. So I was mostly sticking to the autoattack build, which feels terrible without Searing Attacks anymore. The buff to Focused Attack makes it a little more bearable but still not great.
He just doesn't do enough. He doesn't do anything. Left such a sour taste in my mouth. Got him to 5 and I'm never playing him again unless they give him a pretty major overhaul.
His Ults are decent, at the very least.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I mean, I agree that Raynor is super average. But I still manage to do pretty well with him. I build almost entirely for his Q. This is my typical Raynor build. Alterations as necessary.
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/raynor#gnNA
Q build: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/raynor#h9nh
Pretty standard stuff for both, though I'd forgo Seasoned Marksman for Give Me More if I needed to. I had more luck with the autoattack build, I think. Hard to gauge honestly. I was able to get some kills here and there but overall not much luck getting anything done.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Like even just 1 level. But 2 or more and she can pretty much drop people willy nilly.
Though it is very obvious there are some people out there that see her stealth effects PERFECTLY and others (like me) not at all. Apparently some setting effects this? But you just start to notice they don't just have a good eye, they 100% pic you out like you aren't even invisible.
I'll admit that's the first time that's happened. Thankfully, he was a good player.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Garden of Terror
43 kills (us) vs 18 kills
Level 25 (us) vs Level 23
At the end, our core was down to about 30% being beaten on by a Garden Terror when we won the race on their core. With a score like that, you would have expected a fairly clean win, but god damn was that a messy "domination."
JackdawGin.
Was great playing with you guys, and teaching people the pain of specialists.
Like if I wanted to focus on a Locust/Siege build for Quick Match is that viable at all? I'd still pick the clone Ultimate to give my team another body on objective related team fights.
The Monstrosity ult is pretty damn amazing since people will ignore it until it's already done a tone of damage.
I generally take monstrosity. Evolution ult just doesn't seem to last long enough for a proper team fight.
In a pre-made team, Aba is amazing.
He and Illidan collect more tears than they ever intended.
A murky with a hat is a thing to be afraid of. Even with Octograb active on Murk the hat can DPS the hell out of the enemy.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
He's definitely better on premade teams. His hat build requires good melee partners. Ranged characters make poor hat targets since they tend to hover at max range, which means you won't hit very many spike bursts.
If you do queue in random pickup matches, a locust build is typically a better option. The key is just map awareness. You will still be expected to hat during team fights over objectives even if you're going with a locust build. You need to be ready to help with objectives no matter what talents you take.
If you haven't joined the PA channel, type "/join heroes of the wang." There are plenty of folks playing that you can team up with.