Oh god I'm in trouble now. I'm about to hit year 200 and have some serious manpower issues. Also Corruption is about to eat one of my keeps, although it's the one I've been having trouble staffing (Caberjacks)
Ugh.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Oh god I'm in trouble now. I'm about to hit year 200 and have some serious manpower issues. Also Corruption is about to eat one of my keeps, although it's the one I've been having trouble staffing (Caberjacks)
Ugh.
I just had my first teamwipe around ~170
advanced bulwarks
just had their way with me. it was rough. not sure my run can recover and I'm on Iron Mode.
I had initial trouble with advanced seeds and then advanced cradles just showed up. I'm going to lose my caberjack keep in favor of saving my hunters.
Also in iron mode, but I don't know if I want to restart yet I've had a lot of luck getting Patriotic trait onto all my heroes and I want that advantage in the end game. If I live that long.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Massive Chalice is really great. I'm ~10 hours in and having an amazing time. This is more fast-paced than X-Com (personally, I don't find comparing these two games that helpful*): less planning, just 'jacking in' and letting the years slip by. The second night I played it what I thought was a two hour session ended up being a five hour marathon. When I thought it was 9 PM, I looked at the clock and it was midnight: I lost three whole hours due to immersion.
It has created a lot of meta thought experiments for me, such as what happens when a hero gets hit by a Wrinkler; does he/she simply age 5 years in an instant ala "The Last Crusade", or is it something more psychologically-trippy like getting sent to an alternate, branching dimension where s/he really does experience five years of time passing before getting 'yanked' back into the battlefield? What would the qualia of that entail? It sounds like a Stephen King short story, to me.
At any rate, really great job on this one, Double Fine. I love the aesthetic of this game. It has made me think a lot about death and descendency. In my humble opinion, this is your best since Psychonauts.
*if you go in expecting X-Com, you will be disappointed: the gameplay hooks in Chalice are different than in X-Com, and that's a good thing.
Massive Chalice is really great. I'm ~10 hours in and having an amazing time. This is more fast-paced than X-Com (personally, I don't find comparing these two games that helpful*): less planning, just 'jacking in' and letting the years slip by. The second night I played it what I thought was a two hour session ended up being a five hour marathon. When I thought it was 9 PM, I looked at the clock and it was midnight: I lost three whole hours due to immersion.
It has created a lot of meta thought experiments for me, such as what happens when a hero gets hit by a Wrinkler; does he/she simply age 5 years in an instant ala "The Last Crusade", or is it something more psychologically-trippy like getting sent to an alternate, branching dimension where s/he really does experience five years of time passing before getting 'yanked' back into the battlefield? What would the qualia of that entail? It sounds like a Stephen King short story, to me.
At any rate, really great job on this one, Double Fine. I love the aesthetic of this game. It has made me think a lot about death and descendency. In my humble opinion, this is your best since Psychonauts.
*if you go in expecting X-Com, you will be disappointed: the gameplay hooks in Chalice are different than in X-Com, and that's a good thing.
glad someone else is enjoying it! I think XCOM is a natural comparison which does MC no favors on the tactical side, but benefits it greatly on the strategic side.
I'm surprised how few of the reviews comment on how deep the strategic side is. I guess I'm more inclined to fiddle with details than some, but I find it way deeper and more satisfying than XCOM's strategic layer and a wholly unique type of gameplay I haven't seen elsewhere.
Reviewers have commented on the game feeling cold, and lacking attachment to their characters and I guess as a $100 backer I do have my own house--which engenders a certain amount of natural attachment to the game and the proceedings BUT I was never attached to my XCOM characters and I love that game, so that entire angle of criticism is pretty meaningless to me.
Also, when they changed it so Seeds couldn't merge into Cradles, I never thought I would want that back. This whole thing where Cradles split into Seeds when they die is just MEAN.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Chalice is a great game. The difficulty ramps up in expected places, pushing your tactics and strategy further; the long view is at times awe-inspiring in its ability to generate thoughts about mortality, descendency, and rulership. The aesthetic of this game is wonderful; just what you would expect from a Double Fine game. This is their best work since Psychonauts.
There is more sex in this game than the Witcher. 10/10
Moving right along: due to one poor decision, a couple of my heroes "gained" the disheartened personality trait. I actually felt some guilt over it. I figured 'no problem, I'll just keep one in my Vanguard until his time comes, and the other one I'll promote to the Sagewright's guild to make up for it'. Both of them passed, and I figured it was over; boy was I wrong. The disheartened personality trait has spread across one of my bloodlines like a disease. I'm not entirely sure how it happened; perhaps one of my Vanguard was Impressionable and picked it up, then I carelessly promoted him/her to Regent, not realizing s/he carried this new trait (unlikely, but possible). It could mean the end of that bloodline.
It's emergent realizations like these that make this game so worth it.
My new game I managed to get a decent selection of heroes off the bat. Or at least, enough of them. So I rushed a few keeps to get the bloodlines going, along with healing tonic.
Now I'm setting up my crucible.
-edit-
Ugh, and just every opportunity I get negative traits. I'm restarting this one.
Do we have a list anywhere of the houses thread members created? (if they backed that tier)?
-double edit-
Yeah these new heroes have way a way better set of traits to work with. I might actually be able to get the Hearty trait into my bloodlines early.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I finished my first game last night. I really enjoyed it, I love tactics game and this had the right mix of that, a great soundtrack, and a fantasy eugenics simulator I didn't know I needed in my life.
Later on down the road I might try for a harder game in iron mode (I basically played it like it was iron mode anyway). I didn't pay attention to traits or personalities early on, until like year 100, so it was fun trying to correct my bloodline with drunk, nearsighted archers...
My new game I managed to get a decent selection of heroes off the bat. Or at least, enough of them. So I rushed a few keeps to get the bloodlines going, along with healing tonic.
Now I'm setting up my crucible.
-edit-
Ugh, and just every opportunity I get negative traits. I'm restarting this one.
Do we have a list anywhere of the houses thread members created? (if they backed that tier)?
-double edit-
Yeah these new heroes have way a way better set of traits to work with. I might actually be able to get the Hearty trait into my bloodlines early.
I can do this but so far I think I'm the only one who has spoken up to say they backed on that tier. Conceited as I am, I can't see needing a whole list for just me :P
Some of these things will still be a liability for many players. Where I see a bold design, they’ll see annoying hero churn and an endgame sucker punch. These are the same people who reload XCOM when their high level characters die because they don’t want to play a game with painful deaths, because they’re focused on beating the game, because they need to jealously shepherd their most powerful characters through to the finale. Massive Chalice isn’t for them. Massive Chalice, a brilliant and subversive take on tactical RPGs, is for the rest of us. Bravo, Double Fine. It’s easy enough to make a good game a lot of people will like. It’s not so easy to make a great game only some people will love.
0
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
I like this part of the review especially.
Sure, losing a high level character sucks. But you’re going to lose her anyway. Whether she dies of old age or battle, her death will happen. In fact, at a certain point, you know it will probably happen before she gets into another battle. You’ll be keenly aware that some characters are on their last hurrah. Perhaps a noble sacrifice is in order to save someone from a younger generation? That’s not something that occurs to me in other games.
Sure, losing a high level character sucks. But you’re going to lose her anyway. Whether she dies of old age or battle, her death will happen. In fact, at a certain point, you know it will probably happen before she gets into another battle. You’ll be keenly aware that some characters are on their last hurrah. Perhaps a noble sacrifice is in order to save someone from a younger generation? That’s not something that occurs to me in other games.
That really is a cool thing.
I always have this weird balancing act with my Vanguard of... well.. they have really good traits... but if I don't make them a regent soon, they'll be too old to have a lot of kids.
And I never give my relics to anyone with only positive stats, because they are prime regent candidates.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I can do this but so far I think I'm the only one who has spoken up to say they backed on that tier. Conceited as I am, I can't see needing a whole list for just me :P
I did, too! I just can't find the screenshot I took of my House.
My game has had really lobsided childbirth and I'm reaching the point where I'm almost all hunter.
This is not a big problem because 2 crucibles and 4 hunter relic weapons are a bit much.
People come of age at level 7 ,get handed a relic weapon and start one shot ting advanced enemies.
I had a similar problem around year 150 of my current game. Had three keeps, but not quite enough people for Vanguard and partners. I ended up recruiting some fresh blood and using that to start a 4th keep. Given how my last game went I may aim for a 5th as well, just to have enough warm bodies. Seems to be a trend right about that point.
I've ended up with three Alchemist relics (including the backer relic), a caber that is unfortunately stuck on a regent atm, and a bows.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I'm not sure how I did it, but nearly all my Vanguard is drunk. There's even an achievement for fighting/killing enemies while drunk. The problem I have is that Cabers don't bring much to the table. Most enemies seem to designed to be killed from range. So, my group of drunken hunters and drunken Alchemist kill everything before my drunk caber can get over there.
Yeah, that's one thing I'm not a fan of. The monsters are very anti-melee oriented. Your Caber users get knockback skills that are nice, and the stun is incredible, but it seems to be much less valuable than raw high damage because you still have to deal with the melee disadvantage issue to bring those skills into play.
The problem is also that the enemies mill about until they have LoS, and then charge you. So you can't always use melee to close, for fear of uncovering more of the map and getting rushed. All huntery classes gets stealth and so just take enemies out at the edge of LoS.
Meanwhile on the strategic layer, my advice is:
Climb the experience chain first: Crucible and XP from parent feedback is important, and you can't control traits as well as you'd like anyway
Build buildings and research Armor, ignore weapons, be picky about items: Relic weapons are a ton better than anything that you can research, they start appearing when heroes that are level 6 die.
Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
+1
Mostlyjoe13Evil, Evil, Jump for joy!Registered Userregular
The endgame really rewards the level 10 ability where you get another attack if you make a kill..... though the hitchance gets lower on those each time you use it. Still hilarious to see. Only at the very end did my shadowjack feel really useful, but I'm glad I fed him.
My game was both in prime shape, amazing relics, amazing heroes, but threatening to fall apart. For some reason I kept getting more boys than girls, and at the end of the game I had only 2 women not as a regent or partner.
I feel like the randomness around births is a bit much. All the other things can be dealt with, or at least accepted as losses.
Also there is one event that turns someone immortal. I had one dude rule for 225 years before the game ended. He had "Our marriage is hard due to the age difference" twice :P
Ugh I lost my hunter keep, and then the bloodline... There goes two relics.
I am not sure if it's because I'm on hard mode but I am really having trouble keeping my bloodlines going. They just don't seem to be having enough kids.
-edit-
Yeah this is a restart. Most of my retinue now is random recruits. Ugh.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Ugh I lost my hunter keep, and then the bloodline... There goes two relics.
I am not sure if it's because I'm on hard mode but I am really having trouble keeping my bloodlines going. They just don't seem to be having enough kids.
-edit-
Yeah this is a restart. Most of my retinue now is random recruits. Ugh.
I think in general fertility is a hair too low. I'd have preferred slightly more kids. But I guess they wanted the threat of demographic crisis to be ever-present.
Ugh I lost my hunter keep, and then the bloodline... There goes two relics.
I am not sure if it's because I'm on hard mode but I am really having trouble keeping my bloodlines going. They just don't seem to be having enough kids.
-edit-
Yeah this is a restart. Most of my retinue now is random recruits. Ugh.
I think in general fertility is a hair too low. I'd have preferred slightly more kids. But I guess they wanted the threat of demographic crisis to be ever-present.
My current attempt to deal with this is to try to build six keeps, two per base class. Hopefully that will keep enough young heroes around that when a regent dies I have better choices available. This also means more recruiting. I may put off my Crucible until much later due to this.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Once again I have a manpower crisis around year 125 or so.
I had initially dismissed it, but I'm going to revisit my strategy of using the Discovery boost. I'll delay Sagewrights and even Crucible a bit, but right around the time heroes hit level 4 is when a bunch of new level 3-4 heroes will make a big difference in long term population.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Once again I have a manpower crisis around year 125 or so.
I had initially dismissed it, but I'm going to revisit my strategy of using the Discovery boost. I'll delay Sagewrights and even Crucible a bit, but right around the time heroes hit level 4 is when a bunch of new level 3-4 heroes will make a big difference in long term population.
might be the way to go. tough to say. I still havent figured out the solution to demographic problems. gotta experiment with build orders.
I think I'm going non-ironman for my next run. teamwipes are too brutal to recover from I'm tentative about playing again
I loved my first playthrough the entire time - even when I was losing horribly. I don't think I ever had enough people in my kingdom. My first full wipe (fuck you, advanced cradles!) meant that I met the next threat with a vanguard of 2. Those 2 were reduced to 1 in the second turn, and then my lone brewtalist cleaned house. Took out six or seven advanced bulwarks and three advanced lapses solo.
I need to get better at marital planning and never give my alchemists pillar throwers again. They're interesting but too situational to be really useful. The standard thrower can hit 9 squares at a time while the pillar pitcher can hit 4 in a very specific pattern.
X X
O
X X
You throw at O and there can't be anything there because of the cadence junk that gets left behind.
Also, even if they are some of the easier enemies to fight, thematically lapses are terrifying. They're monsters that make you forget. It's like they're giving you Alzheimer's or dementia. How many hits can your caberjack take before he doesn't know who he is, why he's holding this log, and who that blue lady over there is?
Yeah, all of the Cadence enemies are based around aging. Lapses/Twitchers - memory loss, Cradles/Seeds - Mutation, Ruptures - Corrosion, Wrinklers/Bulwarks - Decay
Yeah, all of the Cadence enemies are based around aging. Lapses/Twitchers - memory loss, Cradles/Seeds - Mutation, Ruptures - Corrosion, Wrinklers/Bulwarks - Decay
Which makes sense once you've seen the different versions of a certain event and realize exactly what is going on in this kingdom.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Posts
Ugh.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I just had my first teamwipe around ~170
Also in iron mode, but I don't know if I want to restart yet I've had a lot of luck getting Patriotic trait onto all my heroes and I want that advantage in the end game. If I live that long.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Those reviewers have no idea what they are talking about then. Seems to match with what I expected.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
It has created a lot of meta thought experiments for me, such as what happens when a hero gets hit by a Wrinkler; does he/she simply age 5 years in an instant ala "The Last Crusade", or is it something more psychologically-trippy like getting sent to an alternate, branching dimension where s/he really does experience five years of time passing before getting 'yanked' back into the battlefield? What would the qualia of that entail? It sounds like a Stephen King short story, to me.
At any rate, really great job on this one, Double Fine. I love the aesthetic of this game. It has made me think a lot about death and descendency. In my humble opinion, this is your best since Psychonauts.
*if you go in expecting X-Com, you will be disappointed: the gameplay hooks in Chalice are different than in X-Com, and that's a good thing.
glad someone else is enjoying it! I think XCOM is a natural comparison which does MC no favors on the tactical side, but benefits it greatly on the strategic side.
I'm surprised how few of the reviews comment on how deep the strategic side is. I guess I'm more inclined to fiddle with details than some, but I find it way deeper and more satisfying than XCOM's strategic layer and a wholly unique type of gameplay I haven't seen elsewhere.
Reviewers have commented on the game feeling cold, and lacking attachment to their characters and I guess as a $100 backer I do have my own house--which engenders a certain amount of natural attachment to the game and the proceedings BUT I was never attached to my XCOM characters and I love that game, so that entire angle of criticism is pretty meaningless to me.
Also, when they changed it so Seeds couldn't merge into Cradles, I never thought I would want that back. This whole thing where Cradles split into Seeds when they die is just MEAN.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
My review on Steam (a partial repeat of what I wrote above):
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198083170238/recommended/246110/
There is more sex in this game than the Witcher. 10/10
Moving right along: due to one poor decision, a couple of my heroes "gained" the disheartened personality trait. I actually felt some guilt over it. I figured 'no problem, I'll just keep one in my Vanguard until his time comes, and the other one I'll promote to the Sagewright's guild to make up for it'. Both of them passed, and I figured it was over; boy was I wrong. The disheartened personality trait has spread across one of my bloodlines like a disease. I'm not entirely sure how it happened; perhaps one of my Vanguard was Impressionable and picked it up, then I carelessly promoted him/her to Regent, not realizing s/he carried this new trait (unlikely, but possible). It could mean the end of that bloodline.
It's emergent realizations like these that make this game so worth it.
Now I'm setting up my crucible.
-edit-
Ugh, and just every opportunity I get negative traits. I'm restarting this one.
Do we have a list anywhere of the houses thread members created? (if they backed that tier)?
-double edit-
Yeah these new heroes have way a way better set of traits to work with. I might actually be able to get the Hearty trait into my bloodlines early.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Later on down the road I might try for a harder game in iron mode (I basically played it like it was iron mode anyway). I didn't pay attention to traits or personalities early on, until like year 100, so it was fun trying to correct my bloodline with drunk, nearsighted archers...
I can do this but so far I think I'm the only one who has spoken up to say they backed on that tier. Conceited as I am, I can't see needing a whole list for just me :P
quarter to three gives MC a 5/5 and touches on what makes it unique and possibly divisive: "The best thing about Massive Chalice might be the thing you hate about Massive Chalice"
http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2015/06/11/the-best-thing-about-massive-chalice-might-be-the-thing-you-hate-about-massive-chalice/
That really is a cool thing.
I always have this weird balancing act with my Vanguard of... well.. they have really good traits... but if I don't make them a regent soon, they'll be too old to have a lot of kids.
And I never give my relics to anyone with only positive stats, because they are prime regent candidates.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I did, too! I just can't find the screenshot I took of my House.
Look for the tel'Barad'anur family line.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
This is not a big problem because 2 crucibles and 4 hunter relic weapons are a bit much.
People come of age at level 7 ,get handed a relic weapon and start one shot ting advanced enemies.
I had a similar problem around year 150 of my current game. Had three keeps, but not quite enough people for Vanguard and partners. I ended up recruiting some fresh blood and using that to start a 4th keep. Given how my last game went I may aim for a 5th as well, just to have enough warm bodies. Seems to be a trend right about that point.
I've ended up with three Alchemist relics (including the backer relic), a caber that is unfortunately stuck on a regent atm, and a bows.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Meanwhile on the strategic layer, my advice is:
Climb the experience chain first: Crucible and XP from parent feedback is important, and you can't control traits as well as you'd like anyway
Build buildings and research Armor, ignore weapons, be picky about items: Relic weapons are a ton better than anything that you can research, they start appearing when heroes that are level 6 die.
The Pillar Pitcher has interesting possibilities. I'd used it to good effect before. Not a fan of the barbed bow.
Haven't tried any of the others yet.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
My game was both in prime shape, amazing relics, amazing heroes, but threatening to fall apart. For some reason I kept getting more boys than girls, and at the end of the game I had only 2 women not as a regent or partner.
I feel like the randomness around births is a bit much. All the other things can be dealt with, or at least accepted as losses.
Also there is one event that turns someone immortal. I had one dude rule for 225 years before the game ended. He had "Our marriage is hard due to the age difference" twice :P
I am not sure if it's because I'm on hard mode but I am really having trouble keeping my bloodlines going. They just don't seem to be having enough kids.
-edit-
Yeah this is a restart. Most of my retinue now is random recruits. Ugh.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I think in general fertility is a hair too low. I'd have preferred slightly more kids. But I guess they wanted the threat of demographic crisis to be ever-present.
My current attempt to deal with this is to try to build six keeps, two per base class. Hopefully that will keep enough young heroes around that when a regent dies I have better choices available. This also means more recruiting. I may put off my Crucible until much later due to this.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I had initially dismissed it, but I'm going to revisit my strategy of using the Discovery boost. I'll delay Sagewrights and even Crucible a bit, but right around the time heroes hit level 4 is when a bunch of new level 3-4 heroes will make a big difference in long term population.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/246110/
might be the way to go. tough to say. I still havent figured out the solution to demographic problems. gotta experiment with build orders.
I think I'm going non-ironman for my next run. teamwipes are too brutal to recover from I'm tentative about playing again
this is a fantastic review; someone finally gets into the intricacies of the strategic layer and the emergent stories in MC: http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2015/06/17/massive-chalice-the-fabulous-gaffney-girls/#more-35804
I need to get better at marital planning and never give my alchemists pillar throwers again. They're interesting but too situational to be really useful. The standard thrower can hit 9 squares at a time while the pillar pitcher can hit 4 in a very specific pattern.
You throw at O and there can't be anything there because of the cadence junk that gets left behind.
Also, even if they are some of the easier enemies to fight, thematically lapses are terrifying. They're monsters that make you forget. It's like they're giving you Alzheimer's or dementia. How many hits can your caberjack take before he doesn't know who he is, why he's holding this log, and who that blue lady over there is?
Which makes sense once you've seen the different versions of a certain event and realize exactly what is going on in this kingdom.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.