By all means give people an easier path to obtain the peak that I have achieved. Then we'll go forth from that peak together, me with the gear I obtained through sweat and grind, you with your shiny new vendor gear.
Don't give them an easy path to eclipse me though. Otherwise what was the point of me grinding through disappointing week after disappointing week of just getting ascendant materials from the entire raid.
I don't understand how that's a foreign concept. That seems pretty fundamentally obvious to me.
PSN: Holy-Promethium
+2
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
When I started doesn't really matter, because this system is more or less identical to an mmo I played for years and years. Months and months of hard work raiding invalidated overnight. One time, it was a full year. My opinion now is a result of all that. If you want to suggest I don't have the experience to weigh in on the matter (which I apologize ahead of time if this is not what you're suggesting), then you're incorrect.
I largely thought then as I think now, that I don't understand why people feel slighted when new content completely replaces old. It isn't invalidating all the hard work and satisfaction you got from hitting the peak in previous months. It's just giving you a new peak to strive forward to, and allowing others the opportunity to join you. It's, to me, looking and dwelling on the past, rather than the future.
While I agree that the current system of HoW is a good medium ground to take between the parties, I don't think they should have done it. Leave the past in the past, let everyone else move on.
The only thing I'll give on for the TDB issue is that it would've sucked having to give up heavy weapon ammo on boots to be able to run the new content, just as it would have to give it up if they'd dropped light level 39 content on vendors in HoW.
Destiny isn't an MMO. BUT if we want to compare it to an MMO, Destiny gear != typical mmo gear. Destiny gear is much much more integrated into the player experience that it is more akin to abilities in a typical mmo. It isn't just some visual representation of a stat upgrade. Its literally the thing we use to interact effectively in encounters. We've worked hard to level up numerous guns and have them almost literally BE our character.
Invalidating our weapons every expansion in Destiny would be like WoW resetting everyone's skill trees and replacing them with slightly different skill trees every expansion. Oh, and they have to re-earn the experience for each skill tree. I can imagine how well that would go...
Bungie gave you your proper dues when they gave you the game you are playing right now in exchange for currency. Then on top of that they're giving you some emblems and shaders for being dedicated players.
I think they should offer a Taken King + Season Pass bundle with the extras, but if they don't it is not a grevious personal insult to veteran players who like collectibles, it's just a lame business decision.
Calling Luke Smith a shitwizard on reddit for poorly answering a loaded question doesn't add anything to the already well voiced discussion but obnoxious background noise.
It actually IS a personal insult because they clearly think that Veteran players are fucking stupid and are willing to pay $80 for duplicate content, some shitty physical items (let's face it: the quality WILL be poor/disappointing) and the ACTUAL content they want: the expansion and replacements for the same emotes they've had since Day 1. A lot of people want those. They are deliberately gating them behind a ludicrous price point. So it's both a stupid business decision AND insulting. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Actually, it's worse than that. I think they expect us to do it. If they didn't, they wouldn't gate them behind that price point. Brand new players aren't going to see new emotes and think "thank GOD, I didn't want those stale original ones." Veteran players, however, would place a much higher value on those things. Right or wrong, silly or not, that's how people will perceive their value. And Bungie is actively taking advantage of that.
Fawst on
0
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
I guess we just have different views about what it means to have played a game for three months.
To you (I don't mean to presume), it's hard work from which you've earned rewards.
To me, it's having played the game and achieved what I could in that time.
Like, expansions are discrete events to me, and while it's nice to have what came before, I'm not upset about having the opportunity to work toward new goals and leave the old ones behind.
Maybe you just see it differently.
Like, I obviously didn't have much of a chance to obtain VoG gear before TBD came out, but having obtained end-game rewards in other games, it was more like a trophy once that gear was no longer end-game. It didn't become worth less to me simply because the new content had better rewards. It didn't make all the time I spent obtaining it suddenly not valuable.
It's because I don't see it as an easy path to eclipse anyone, because the people who did wade through the shit are already that much more likely to be the first to reach the highest level of the game anyway. That they can eclipse you doesn't mean they're going to.
I do, however, strongly believe that (what I'd heard of it anyway) leveling to 30 in the vanilla game was way too hard, which definitely helped contribute to feeling like Bungie threw old players under the bus. Like, given how easy it was to hit 34, will anyone feel strongly that a new player in Taken King is potentially going to be hitting LL40 or whatever in a matter of hours? This isn't rhetorical, but a genuine question.
@Muffinatron - I get your point, but I don't think I agree with the "why does the next expansion's release make my gear obsolete and allow those who didn't put in the time to eclipse me" issue - still, that's your opinion, obviously, and I get both the "I put in the time, I should at least get some long-term benefit" angle and the "you were playing the game and the grind was part of the enjoyment, so you aren't entitled to any long-term benefit when the new xpac drops" argument. I feel like, having played a lot of MMOs, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that expansions render old gear obsolete. It's somewhat frustrating or depressing, and it was always that way with WoW - oh, the green and blue drops in the new zone are better than my top-tier endgame stuff - but I don't have that much of a problem with it. I know that, come this fall, I'll be back on the treadmill, which is a lot of the fun for me.
It's moot anyway, because the Ascension system has made everything relevant and viable. Which is why it's a great system.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
i do prefer the HoW mechanic of making older gear still viable, i think that's a better system than simply making old gear obsolete
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
When I started doesn't really matter, because this system is more or less identical to an mmo I played for years and years. Months and months of hard work raiding invalidated overnight. One time, it was a full year. My opinion now is a result of all that. If you want to suggest I don't have the experience to weigh in on the matter (which I apologize ahead of time if this is not what you're suggesting), then you're incorrect.
I largely thought then as I think now, that I don't understand why people feel slighted when new content completely replaces old. It isn't invalidating all the hard work and satisfaction you got from hitting the peak in previous months. It's just giving you a new peak to strive forward to, and allowing others the opportunity to join you. It's, to me, looking and dwelling on the past, rather than the future.
While I agree that the current system of HoW is a good medium ground to take between the parties, I don't think they should have done it. Leave the past in the past, let everyone else move on.
The only thing I'll give on for the TDB issue is that it would've sucked having to give up heavy weapon ammo on boots to be able to run the new content, just as it would have to give it up if they'd dropped light level 39 content on vendors in HoW.
Destiny isn't an MMO. BUT if we want to compare it to an MMO, Destiny gear != typical mmo gear. Destiny gear is much much more integrated into the player experience that it is more akin to abilities in a typical mmo. It isn't just some visual representation of a stat upgrade. Its literally the thing we use to interact effectively in encounters. We've worked hard to level up numerous guns and have them almost literally BE our character.
Invalidating our weapons every expansion in Destiny would be like WoW resetting everyone's skill trees and replacing them with slightly different skill trees every expansion. Oh, and they have to re-earn the experience for each skill tree. I can imagine how well that would go...
Aside from the experience thing, which is something I already dislike anyway, then that is actually what happened. Skills trees very often do get completely changed every single wow expansion.
Also, Destiny is absolutely 100% an MMO, in its bones. There are design differences, and that it exists on a 3D plane rather than the 2D one most MMOs reside particularly changes how different the design is, but from a progression standpoint Destiny is so much an mmo it hurts.
@Muffinatron - I get your point, but I don't think I agree with the "why does the next expansion's release make my gear obsolete and allow those who didn't put in the time to eclipse me" issue - still, that's your opinion, obviously, and I get both the "I put in the time, I should at least get some long-term benefit" angle and the "you were playing the game and the grind was part of the enjoyment, so you aren't entitled to any long-term benefit when the new xpac drops" argument. I feel like, having played a lot of MMOs, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that expansions render old gear obsolete. It's somewhat frustrating or depressing, and it was always that way with WoW - oh, the green and blue drops in the new zone are better than my top-tier endgame stuff - but I just deal with it.
It's moot anyway, because the Ascension system has made everything relevant and viable. Which is why it's a great system.
Just because it was the way it was always done doesn't mean it's the right way.
I agree with you on the ascension system, I love it because it negates all of that frustration and depression.
I also agree with the point Cilla raised, I think how hard it was to obtain vault gear exacerbated those feelings to a near unbearable level for a lot of players.
I do wonder if the previous two expansions only increasing the light level by two each time didn't give them enough wiggle room. Hopefully with TTK giving a much higher level cap (assuming things hold over from the demos from E3) that will help.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
i do prefer the HoW mechanic of making older gear still viable, i think that's a better system than simply making old gear obsolete
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
What would be nice would be for some of the truly legendary weapons (Fatebringer) to become Year 2 / Year 3 exotics. Make them become truly exotic weapons. That would be a way to take out ascension the way it is now and simply make a few weapons become super unique and follow you through the ages of Destiny.
Edit: To expand... you would be able to turn your Fatebringer into an exotic Fatebringer with the new damage powers and such. Same perks, just exotic.
I'm excited at the potential of having another weapon to equip other than Fatebringer or Vision of Confluence in year 2, but would also be super down with it becoming an exotic. That seems like such an elegant solution.
I love ascension system that it keeps favorites valuable.
I hate that ascension means I primarily use raid gear, and will continue to do so.
Maybe that will change if I do a lighthouse trip, but I almost wish they had systems where ascending did different things like applying elemental damage to a non-elemental weapon, or changing potential perk sets.
I guess I'm just really excited about perk sets helping to flush out different specs, as opposed to really only rotating through Fatebringer/Vision of Confluence and Found Verdict/Swordbreaker.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
i do prefer the HoW mechanic of making older gear still viable, i think that's a better system than simply making old gear obsolete
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
What would be nice would be for some of the truly legendary weapons (Fatebringer) to become Year 2 / Year 3 exotics. Make them become truly exotic weapons. That would be a way to take out ascension the way it is now and simply make a few weapons become super unique and follow you through the ages of Destiny.
If they ever do make legendaries become an exotic (maybe similar to the way Eidolon Ally becomes Necrochasm), I feel like they would need to get a 'The' before.
So 'Fatebringer' legendary becomes -> 'The Fatebringer' exotic
'Vision of Confluence' -> 'The Vision of Confluence'
etc. etc.
PSN: Holy-Promethium
+4
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
When I started doesn't really matter, because this system is more or less identical to an mmo I played for years and years. Months and months of hard work raiding invalidated overnight. One time, it was a full year. My opinion now is a result of all that. If you want to suggest I don't have the experience to weigh in on the matter (which I apologize ahead of time if this is not what you're suggesting), then you're incorrect.
I largely thought then as I think now, that I don't understand why people feel slighted when new content completely replaces old. It isn't invalidating all the hard work and satisfaction you got from hitting the peak in previous months. It's just giving you a new peak to strive forward to, and allowing others the opportunity to join you. It's, to me, looking and dwelling on the past, rather than the future.
While I agree that the current system of HoW is a good medium ground to take between the parties, I don't think they should have done it. Leave the past in the past, let everyone else move on.
The only thing I'll give on for the TDB issue is that it would've sucked having to give up heavy weapon ammo on boots to be able to run the new content, just as it would have to give it up if they'd dropped light level 39 content on vendors in HoW.
Destiny isn't an MMO. BUT if we want to compare it to an MMO, Destiny gear != typical mmo gear. Destiny gear is much much more integrated into the player experience that it is more akin to abilities in a typical mmo. It isn't just some visual representation of a stat upgrade. Its literally the thing we use to interact effectively in encounters. We've worked hard to level up numerous guns and have them almost literally BE our character.
Invalidating our weapons every expansion in Destiny would be like WoW resetting everyone's skill trees and replacing them with slightly different skill trees every expansion. Oh, and they have to re-earn the experience for each skill tree. I can imagine how well that would go...
Aside from the experience thing, which is something I already dislike anyway, then that is actually what happened. Skills trees very often do get completely changed every single wow expansion.
Also, Destiny is absolutely 100% an MMO, in its bones. There are design differences, and that it exists on a 3D plane rather than the 2D one most MMOs reside particularly changes how different the design is, but from a progression standpoint Destiny is so much an mmo it hurts.
But that's the main thing! That's like everyone's main complaint.
We are being forced to (putting it in typical mmo terms)
1) Go through content with sub-par skill trees (our guns)
2) RNG to hopefully find a new better skill tree
3) Re-level this new skill tree
Any single part of that would be horrible in a typical mmo, but that's what we are expected to do in this game. Weapons NEED to be viewed as a literal extension of our skill trees, because for all intents and purposes they are. Ascension has to be a permanent part of the game due to the importance of weapons in the efficiency of characters.
@Muffinatron - I get your point, but I don't think I agree with the "why does the next expansion's release make my gear obsolete and allow those who didn't put in the time to eclipse me" issue - still, that's your opinion, obviously, and I get both the "I put in the time, I should at least get some long-term benefit" angle and the "you were playing the game and the grind was part of the enjoyment, so you aren't entitled to any long-term benefit when the new xpac drops" argument. I feel like, having played a lot of MMOs, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that expansions render old gear obsolete. It's somewhat frustrating or depressing, and it was always that way with WoW - oh, the green and blue drops in the new zone are better than my top-tier endgame stuff - but I don't have that much of a problem with it. I know that, come this fall, I'll be back on the treadmill, which is a lot of the fun for me.
It's moot anyway, because the Ascension system has made everything relevant and viable. Which is why it's a great system.
The system isn't without its drawback however. None of the legendaries in HoW is exciting to me. They are all quite boring. Sure, the Trials gear looks nice, but outside of that armor, everything else that isn't exotic is boring. They cannot touch the power they gave some of the older legendaries. If they did, the power creep would be way too high and the content would need to be tuned harder, which would suck.
So HoW is about making your old stuff relevant again. I think for exotics its awesome, but I wish I had better things to collect than Etheric Lights.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
When I started doesn't really matter, because this system is more or less identical to an mmo I played for years and years. Months and months of hard work raiding invalidated overnight. One time, it was a full year. My opinion now is a result of all that. If you want to suggest I don't have the experience to weigh in on the matter (which I apologize ahead of time if this is not what you're suggesting), then you're incorrect.
I largely thought then as I think now, that I don't understand why people feel slighted when new content completely replaces old. It isn't invalidating all the hard work and satisfaction you got from hitting the peak in previous months. It's just giving you a new peak to strive forward to, and allowing others the opportunity to join you. It's, to me, looking and dwelling on the past, rather than the future.
While I agree that the current system of HoW is a good medium ground to take between the parties, I don't think they should have done it. Leave the past in the past, let everyone else move on.
The only thing I'll give on for the TDB issue is that it would've sucked having to give up heavy weapon ammo on boots to be able to run the new content, just as it would have to give it up if they'd dropped light level 39 content on vendors in HoW.
Destiny isn't an MMO. BUT if we want to compare it to an MMO, Destiny gear != typical mmo gear. Destiny gear is much much more integrated into the player experience that it is more akin to abilities in a typical mmo. It isn't just some visual representation of a stat upgrade. Its literally the thing we use to interact effectively in encounters. We've worked hard to level up numerous guns and have them almost literally BE our character.
Invalidating our weapons every expansion in Destiny would be like WoW resetting everyone's skill trees every expansion. I can imagine how well that would go...
If they keep up with Etheric Light-style gear updates to keep the armor/damage values relevant I think the perks stay pretty valid. Like, I probably won't wear PoE armor regularly but the PoE-specific perks are pretty awesome for when you're doing that. It sounds like they're not going to add more PoE levels with Taken King, which is a shame, but I imagine I'll still be breaking it out whenever I want to try for one of the Ciphers for a character (y'know, once I successfully get one once...).
I've been using Vision of Confluence pretty regularly since I got it and it's not even fully leveled, much less ascended. The elemental damage lets me take out shielded dudes faster with its 270 or whatever damage than I would with a kinetic gun at 365.
Y'all are wildly overstating how arrogant this Smith guy comes off as, imo
I genuinely can't even believe it. There isn't some other interview with Luke Smith out there? He's a little blunt here and dodges the fuck out of that European cost question in the most obvious way, but is otherwise tonally fine.
If anything I was more annoyed by how the eurogamer guy wouldn't stop talking about the shaders. He came off as petulant.
Yeah continously saying "value" as the interviewer stated quite clearly why there was NO value to be had wasn't arrogant or annoying. Ditto the "throw money at the screen" comment. He (Luke Smith) then proceeds to "poke at" the interviewer when he (Tom Phillips) has already prepared to move on. So I find it ridiculous how you say the Eurogamer guy "won't stop" when the Bungie guy deliberately steers the conversation back to the shaders, in order to make a smug comment.
Of course it was all worth it for the most devastating burn I've seen in a game journalist interview since the one with Molyneux: "Eurogamer: I feel like you should put some of these things that you are empathising with into practice." What a SATISFYING throw back in the face of all this "we hear you" bullshit. They design some shit that would NEVER have been popular if they had done even a little bit of thinking from the player perspective (redoing all the Exotics, no guaranteed keys for PoE, etc etc) and then, after collecting our money and watching us suffer for a while, go "oh we hear you" and fix it whenever they feel like it. Or basically never in the case of Vault space.
The whole thing with value in that interview is that you're getting something for your money. The interviewer wanted to fixate on how you're paying for content you already have, but that's silly, because it would cost the same amount even if they didn't include the old content. If you buy the CE, you are paying for new content and exclusive content. It has a value. If this interview had been about how the physical and digital CEs are the same price, maybe it would be different. But it wasn't. It was about the interviewer asking the same questions over and over and getting the same answer.
I'm confused why you believe the CE would be the same price without the old content. And you are paying for iit the old content. You pay for the Season Pass, The Taken King, and the extras. Its all in the same package.
So, it rubs players the wrong way to talk about the "value" of the CE when half of it is stuff you already own.
but heres the thing: The effective value of Vanilla Destiny, House of Wolves and Dark Below as soon as Taken King is released is zero.
Uh, what?
What I'm saying is that I'm guessing they are going to basically stop selling the year 1 stuff separately once taken king is out. Taken King will be destiny.
I doubt it, and even if they did it does not mean the value of that stuff is Zero. There's a reason the CE costs more, its because it comes with the old content. Now, we will certainly see a price drop in the old content, but that's usual.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
i do prefer the HoW mechanic of making older gear still viable, i think that's a better system than simply making old gear obsolete
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
What would be nice would be for some of the truly legendary weapons (Fatebringer) to become Year 2 / Year 3 exotics. Make them become truly exotic weapons. That would be a way to take out ascension the way it is now and simply make a few weapons become super unique and follow you through the ages of Destiny.
Edit: To expand... you would be able to turn your Fatebringer into an exotic Fatebringer with the new damage powers and such. Same perks, just exotic.
Yeah, not at all certain that year 1 exotics will be upgrading in perpetuity and the reason for that is quite simply gjallarhorn.
Man, I remember how crushing it was to be running around on my Rogue in vanilla WoW with top-tier shit from AQ40, including the best weapons in the game for a sword Rogue, then for everything to be rendered obsolete within 2 hours of The Burning Crusade hitting.
Ascension needs to be kept as an option in the future, absolutely.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
i do prefer the HoW mechanic of making older gear still viable, i think that's a better system than simply making old gear obsolete
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
What would be nice would be for some of the truly legendary weapons (Fatebringer) to become Year 2 / Year 3 exotics. Make them become truly exotic weapons. That would be a way to take out ascension the way it is now and simply make a few weapons become super unique and follow you through the ages of Destiny.
If they ever do make legendaries become an exotic (maybe similar to the way Eidolon Ally becomes Necrochasm), I feel like they would need to get a 'The' before.
So 'Fatebringer' legendary becomes -> 'The Fatebringer' exotic
'Vision of Confluence' -> 'The Vision of Confluence'
etc. etc.
I want this too for my old armor!
Molniya Type-1 = Heirloom Molniya Type 1
Holdfast Type 2 = Well-worn Holdfast Type 2
Shit, you can pile on the adjectives, just let me rock my old shit, it doesn't have to be best in slot, just viable!
Heirloom, Legacy, Well-Worn, Veteran's, Battle-Tested, Old Fart's, and so on.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
but I almost wish they had systems where ascending did different things like applying elemental damage to a non-elemental weapon, or changing potential perk sets.
See, that could be interesting.
Maybe obtain Arc Inducers to make a weapon Arc damage etc.
Then you'd have greater variance between guardians in PvE content. As soon as you get yourself a full set of elemental primaries now you're pretty much locked in to using them for PvE, given the small pool of elemental primaries most guardians have the same load-out.
But if you could pick and choose kinetic weapons to give an element... that could really make your guardians individuals.
Maybe you'd have to rip up the whole elemental system and make it so all weapons start off as kinetic except for exotics and raid weapons. Then you have to obtain the parts to make it the element you want, probably irreversibly in the same way that etheric light is.
Bungie will never do it, but it sounds intriguing to me.
@Muffinatron - I get your point, but I don't think I agree with the "why does the next expansion's release make my gear obsolete and allow those who didn't put in the time to eclipse me" issue - still, that's your opinion, obviously, and I get both the "I put in the time, I should at least get some long-term benefit" angle and the "you were playing the game and the grind was part of the enjoyment, so you aren't entitled to any long-term benefit when the new xpac drops" argument. I feel like, having played a lot of MMOs, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that expansions render old gear obsolete. It's somewhat frustrating or depressing, and it was always that way with WoW - oh, the green and blue drops in the new zone are better than my top-tier endgame stuff - but I just deal with it.
It's moot anyway, because the Ascension system has made everything relevant and viable. Which is why it's a great system.
Just because it was the way it was always done doesn't mean it's the right way.
I agree with you on the ascension system, I love it because it negates all of that frustration and depression.
I also agree with the point Cilla raised, I think how hard it was to obtain vault gear exacerbated those feelings to a near unbearable level for a lot of players.
I do wonder if the previous two expansions only increasing the light level by two each time didn't give them enough wiggle room. Hopefully with TTK giving a much higher level cap (assuming things hold over from the demos from E3) that will help.
Agreed. It definitely had something to do with the frustration people had over VoG's super-reliance on RNG. Some PAers still don't have a Mythoclast after running VoG like 50 times. That's insane.
@Muffinatron - I get your point, but I don't think I agree with the "why does the next expansion's release make my gear obsolete and allow those who didn't put in the time to eclipse me" issue - still, that's your opinion, obviously, and I get both the "I put in the time, I should at least get some long-term benefit" angle and the "you were playing the game and the grind was part of the enjoyment, so you aren't entitled to any long-term benefit when the new xpac drops" argument. I feel like, having played a lot of MMOs, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that expansions render old gear obsolete. It's somewhat frustrating or depressing, and it was always that way with WoW - oh, the green and blue drops in the new zone are better than my top-tier endgame stuff - but I don't have that much of a problem with it. I know that, come this fall, I'll be back on the treadmill, which is a lot of the fun for me.
It's moot anyway, because the Ascension system has made everything relevant and viable. Which is why it's a great system.
The system isn't without its drawback however. None of the legendaries in HoW is exciting to me. They are all quite boring. Sure, the Trials gear looks nice, but outside of that armor, everything else that isn't exotic is boring. They cannot touch the power they gave some of the older legendaries. If they did, the power creep would be way too high and the content would need to be tuned harder, which would suck.
So HoW is about making your old stuff relevant again. I think for exotics its awesome, but I wish I had better things to collect than Etheric Lights.
Agree. The Trials gear looks cool, but there isn't too much else to get excited about. I think that's why I went for that all-New Monarchy look - it was at least somewhat distinctive that way - and I've since pretty much abandoned it because the perks weren't in line with my playstyle. Now, I'm just using whatever combination of gear maximizes my cooldowns, which is somewhat straightforward and boring. At least on my Hunter, I have a new goal in that I'm working towards maximizing my Glowhoo glow.
If anyone can find me an MMO expansion that came out within three months of launch and invalidated all the gear from launch the way Dark Below did, I will eat my hat.
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
i do prefer the HoW mechanic of making older gear still viable, i think that's a better system than simply making old gear obsolete
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
What would be nice would be for some of the truly legendary weapons (Fatebringer) to become Year 2 / Year 3 exotics. Make them become truly exotic weapons. That would be a way to take out ascension the way it is now and simply make a few weapons become super unique and follow you through the ages of Destiny.
If they ever do make legendaries become an exotic (maybe similar to the way Eidolon Ally becomes Necrochasm), I feel like they would need to get a 'The' before.
So 'Fatebringer' legendary becomes -> 'The Fatebringer' exotic
'Vision of Confluence' -> 'The Vision of Confluence'
etc. etc.
I want this too for my old armor!
Molniya Type-1 = Heirloom Molniya Type 1
Holdfast Type 2 = Well-worn Holdfast Type 2
Shit, you can pile on the adjectives, just let me rock my old shit, it doesn't have to be best in slot, just viable!
Heirloom, Legacy, Well-Worn, Veteran's, Battle-Tested, Old Fart's, and so on.
Oh. Shit.
That would be awesome.
As you choose what perks to give your gear, it gets it's own adjectives that add onto it's name.
Perhaps not the actual title on the screen because that could fill-up fast, but maybe replacing the flavour text.
I suppose it would work similar to a transmog system. You'd buy gear to get the base visual model and styling, but then use different equipment acquired through raids to give it different perks and attributes, doing so changes the armour's legend.
If anyone can find me an MMO expansion that came out within three months of launch and invalidated all the gear from launch the way Dark Below did, I will eat my hat.
I'm conflicted between the fact you're aiding my argument and my desire to see someone eat a hat.
Speaking of which, @Dajoran when are we getting the picture of you crying with joy after you got your Gjallarhorn?
i don't get being pissed off because other people can level up faster now than you could six months ago
... that wasn't the issue as I had already explained.
The issue was that vendor gear completely invalidated vault gear. There was no recognition of the effort it took to obtain the gear, it was just obsolete overnight. It had less defence and the perks had no real impact in the dark below content.
It's hard to give you an experience you didn't go through given you only started playing just over a week before TDB hit (and Cilla didn't start until two weeks after it hit).
The current system is way better than it was back then because the anger that it caused made Bungie re-evaluate the system.
When I started doesn't really matter, because this system is more or less identical to an mmo I played for years and years. Months and months of hard work raiding invalidated overnight. One time, it was a full year. My opinion now is a result of all that. If you want to suggest I don't have the experience to weigh in on the matter (which I apologize ahead of time if this is not what you're suggesting), then you're incorrect.
I largely thought then as I think now, that I don't understand why people feel slighted when new content completely replaces old. It isn't invalidating all the hard work and satisfaction you got from hitting the peak in previous months. It's just giving you a new peak to strive forward to, and allowing others the opportunity to join you. It's, to me, looking and dwelling on the past, rather than the future.
While I agree that the current system of HoW is a good medium ground to take between the parties, I don't think they should have done it. Leave the past in the past, let everyone else move on.
The only thing I'll give on for the TDB issue is that it would've sucked having to give up heavy weapon ammo on boots to be able to run the new content, just as it would have to give it up if they'd dropped light level 39 content on vendors in HoW.
Destiny isn't an MMO. BUT if we want to compare it to an MMO, Destiny gear != typical mmo gear. Destiny gear is much much more integrated into the player experience that it is more akin to abilities in a typical mmo. It isn't just some visual representation of a stat upgrade. Its literally the thing we use to interact effectively in encounters. We've worked hard to level up numerous guns and have them almost literally BE our character.
Invalidating our weapons every expansion in Destiny would be like WoW resetting everyone's skill trees and replacing them with slightly different skill trees every expansion. Oh, and they have to re-earn the experience for each skill tree. I can imagine how well that would go...
Aside from the experience thing, which is something I already dislike anyway, then that is actually what happened. Skills trees very often do get completely changed every single wow expansion.
Also, Destiny is absolutely 100% an MMO, in its bones. There are design differences, and that it exists on a 3D plane rather than the 2D one most MMOs reside particularly changes how different the design is, but from a progression standpoint Destiny is so much an mmo it hurts.
But that's the main thing! That's like everyone's main complaint.
We are being forced to (putting it in typical mmo terms)
1) Go through content with sub-par skill trees (our guns)
2) RNG to hopefully find a new better skill tree
3) Re-level this new skill tree
Any single part of that would be horrible in a typical mmo, but that's what we are expected to do in this game. Weapons NEED to be viewed as a literal extension of our skill trees, because for all intents and purposes they are. Ascension has to be a permanent part of the game due to the importance of weapons in the efficiency of characters.
Going through content with sub-par stuff is also endemic to other mmos too. Every new xpac you're going to be killing stuff much, much slower than you were at the end of the last xpac, and for quite a while too. Basically until you're in full raid gear, which is months of time usually. It's just as frustrating, and I'm not really willing to defend it, because I dislike that aspect as much as releveling weapons in Destiny.
I agree that weapons are a unique thing in Destiny, and thing their design is a huge issue that Bungie is going to have a hell of a time working with. This isn't entirely relevant to the current discussion, but I want to bring it up anyway because it's interesting to me.
Consider that in most MMOs, the playbase has chosen a class they prefer and will stick with it even if it largely remains the same for months or years. Gear is obtained almost purely for numbers to rise, but the playstyle will (there are exceptions, especially these days, but not to a huge degree) remain largely the same. The variation in play comes from the application of the class playstyle to a large amount of raid boss mechanics.
This isn't a 1:1 comparison in Destiny, because weapons mean, as you suggest, that there is no established playstyle. Your playstyle will change based on what weapon you use. There are no long established skill rotations. This is very cool and one of the things I love about Destiny.
But it also presents Bungie with a massive problem, because the loot they offer as incentive to go forward isn't just increased numbers. It's different playstyles. They are, essentially, having to redesign skill trees constantly, and these can't just be tweaks on existing playstyles, they have to be entirely new ways to play the game. All the time. They can't ever stop, because to do so means that the new raid won't have new and interesting weapons, which are damn near the only reason people have for running new content.
I can't suggest a solution to this problem because I don't have one, but it's interesting to appreciate just how difficult Bungie has made a series like this for themselves. I hope they can continue to pull it off, but am skeptical, because it's a monumental task to generate interesting and unique perks for 9 years. And, really, you could argue that HoW is already a failure in that respect, because there isn't anything especially new or unique outside of the Sidearm.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
"I refuse to pay for what I already have and you should too."
That's your right, and we respect your freedom to make decisions about what you find valuable.
The Collector's Edition is mostly sold out, so the people who found that stuff valuable jumped at the chance. You'll likely see it sold on ebay for much more than what we're asking. But that's not the point. Right?
The real conversation here is: What are we doing to honor you, the players who have been bound to Destiny in this first year of action and adventure? I'm glad you asked. I'm going to answer in the Bungie Weekly Update.
Personally, I'd prefer that they make the etheric light system an annual thing. When Taken King comes out just make all Level 20 Year 1 gear maxed out as though it had been ascended, whether it's from vanilla Destiny, TDB, or HoW, vendor or raid or whatever, if you have year 1 gear it's maxed out once you level it.
But then don't let me upgrade it to be equivalent to Level 30 gear. I can use my year 1 stuff as I grind my way up to base-level 30 and then put it on other characters as I grind them up, but eventually let me get new, better gear that's level 30. When the post-Taken King DLC comes out, let me upgrade my Taken King gear to the new caps but leave the old stuff.
Then, when Destiny 2 rolls around, just let us upgrade everything to max. At the end of the Destiny 1 lifecycle you can bust out anything you've got hanging around in your vault and go nuts.
Fatebringer and ballerhorn and Thorn and all are cool and I get that people get attached to their gear, but next summer I think it would be a lot more fun to be playing with a whole new set of top-tier stuff. If people are still saying, "Well, yeah, the new guns from the Cabal Are Finally Cool DLC are neat but I'd really just rather keep using my Fatebringer" in a year I think that would be pretty lame. And it's not like the current crop of top-tier equipment wouldn't still be awesome for the period between LL20 and LL35 or 40 or wherever new top-tier gear would require you to be.
If anyone can find me an MMO expansion that came out within three months of launch and invalidated all the gear from launch the way Dark Below did, I will eat my hat.
Whoa, let's not move the goalposts here. Two points: 1) the MMO comparison has been aimed at pricing concerns; 2) TDB invalidated raid armor, specifically getting to 30 and beyond. There were plenty of launch weapons and exotic armors that TDB didn't invalidate.
Brother Vance's Inventory has been updated:
Boots Week!
Titan:
+139 Intellect
Carry more ammo for Hand Cannons
Carry more ammo for Heavy Weapons
Hunter:
+73 Intellect
+76 Discipline
Carry more ammo for Scout Rifle
Carry more ammo for Heavy Weapons
Warlock:
+75 Discipline
+79 Strength
Carry more ammo for Pulse Rifles
Carry more ammo for Special Weapons
Titan boots are perfect for me, I have trials helmet and chest with discipline and gloves with intellect, so boots with pure intellect will give me a decent Int/Dis pure Trials gear load out.
Hunter boots aren't bad. Probably grab them for appearance sake at least. I already have a pair with pure discipline from the last time, but they're special weapons ammo instead of heavy so I don't wear them that often.
Warlock Boots... disappointing. Special weapons rather than heavy and Dis/Str. Oh well.
If anyone can find me an MMO expansion that came out within three months of launch and invalidated all the gear from launch the way Dark Below did, I will eat my hat.
Expansions? Perhaps not that fast.
Raids? Raids within expansions commonly replaced every single piece of gear you had gotten just months before.
"I refuse to pay for what I already have and you should too."
That's your right, and we respect your freedom to make decisions about what you find valuable.
The Collector's Edition is mostly sold out, so the people who found that stuff valuable jumped at the chance. You'll likely see it sold on ebay for much more than what we're asking. But that's not the point. Right?
The real conversation here is: What are we doing to honor you, the players who have been bound to Destiny in this first year of action and adventure? I'm glad you asked. I'm going to answer in the Bungie Weekly Update.
Please stay tuned.
sigh
I mean, it is a point that clearly states "noone gives a shit about what the vocal people on the internet are saying". Bungie from the start hinted at this, whenever someone asked a question that started with the hyperbole "the internet wants [x] why arent you doing that". That group is not nearly as important as they(we) think they(we) are. Devs in general are just starting to be a little more up front about it now.
edit: I think they will throw a pittance our way for sticking around. We won't get the same thing as the CE, so the CE retains its value. I'm guessing an additional shader, maybe ghost shader(remember those?) to commemorate. But I'm firmly in the "weill see" camp.
If anyone can find me an MMO expansion that came out within three months of launch and invalidated all the gear from launch the way Dark Below did, I will eat my hat.
Expansions? Perhaps not that fast.
Raids? Raids within expansions commonly replaced every single piece of gear you had gotten just months before.
Raid gear was relevant to progress to the next tier of content and in most cases required to. Expansions invalidate raid gear, subsequent raid tiers do not.
Posts
Don't give them an easy path to eclipse me though. Otherwise what was the point of me grinding through disappointing week after disappointing week of just getting ascendant materials from the entire raid.
I don't understand how that's a foreign concept. That seems pretty fundamentally obvious to me.
Destiny isn't an MMO. BUT if we want to compare it to an MMO, Destiny gear != typical mmo gear. Destiny gear is much much more integrated into the player experience that it is more akin to abilities in a typical mmo. It isn't just some visual representation of a stat upgrade. Its literally the thing we use to interact effectively in encounters. We've worked hard to level up numerous guns and have them almost literally BE our character.
Invalidating our weapons every expansion in Destiny would be like WoW resetting everyone's skill trees and replacing them with slightly different skill trees every expansion. Oh, and they have to re-earn the experience for each skill tree. I can imagine how well that would go...
Xbox Live / Steam
It actually IS a personal insult because they clearly think that Veteran players are fucking stupid and are willing to pay $80 for duplicate content, some shitty physical items (let's face it: the quality WILL be poor/disappointing) and the ACTUAL content they want: the expansion and replacements for the same emotes they've had since Day 1. A lot of people want those. They are deliberately gating them behind a ludicrous price point. So it's both a stupid business decision AND insulting. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Actually, it's worse than that. I think they expect us to do it. If they didn't, they wouldn't gate them behind that price point. Brand new players aren't going to see new emotes and think "thank GOD, I didn't want those stale original ones." Veteran players, however, would place a much higher value on those things. Right or wrong, silly or not, that's how people will perceive their value. And Bungie is actively taking advantage of that.
To you (I don't mean to presume), it's hard work from which you've earned rewards.
To me, it's having played the game and achieved what I could in that time.
Like, expansions are discrete events to me, and while it's nice to have what came before, I'm not upset about having the opportunity to work toward new goals and leave the old ones behind.
Maybe you just see it differently.
Like, I obviously didn't have much of a chance to obtain VoG gear before TBD came out, but having obtained end-game rewards in other games, it was more like a trophy once that gear was no longer end-game. It didn't become worth less to me simply because the new content had better rewards. It didn't make all the time I spent obtaining it suddenly not valuable.
I do, however, strongly believe that (what I'd heard of it anyway) leveling to 30 in the vanilla game was way too hard, which definitely helped contribute to feeling like Bungie threw old players under the bus. Like, given how easy it was to hit 34, will anyone feel strongly that a new player in Taken King is potentially going to be hitting LL40 or whatever in a matter of hours? This isn't rhetorical, but a genuine question.
It's moot anyway, because the Ascension system has made everything relevant and viable. Which is why it's a great system.
Strongly agree. Also, I want to point out a lore-related (groan) reason to always be able to upgrade your older gear, even if it's not the best in slot. The tagline of the game is Become Legend. Legends are built on the old, not the new. We don't remember any other sword that King Arthur used in mythology, we remember Excalibur. His oldest, and possibly only weapon. If he ever "upgraded" to a newer, more shiny +1 sword of righteousness, we will never know. The legend is Excalibur.
The old, and likely only weapons of the legendary guardians are remembered. Thorn, The Last Word, and so on.
In some years, names like Fatebringer and Black Hammer and Vision Of Confluence will be the new legends. Some unhinged guardian out there is carefully oiling his Comedian and cackling away.
Aside from the experience thing, which is something I already dislike anyway, then that is actually what happened. Skills trees very often do get completely changed every single wow expansion.
Also, Destiny is absolutely 100% an MMO, in its bones. There are design differences, and that it exists on a 3D plane rather than the 2D one most MMOs reside particularly changes how different the design is, but from a progression standpoint Destiny is so much an mmo it hurts.
Just because it was the way it was always done doesn't mean it's the right way.
I agree with you on the ascension system, I love it because it negates all of that frustration and depression.
I also agree with the point Cilla raised, I think how hard it was to obtain vault gear exacerbated those feelings to a near unbearable level for a lot of players.
I do wonder if the previous two expansions only increasing the light level by two each time didn't give them enough wiggle room. Hopefully with TTK giving a much higher level cap (assuming things hold over from the demos from E3) that will help.
What would be nice would be for some of the truly legendary weapons (Fatebringer) to become Year 2 / Year 3 exotics. Make them become truly exotic weapons. That would be a way to take out ascension the way it is now and simply make a few weapons become super unique and follow you through the ages of Destiny.
Edit: To expand... you would be able to turn your Fatebringer into an exotic Fatebringer with the new damage powers and such. Same perks, just exotic.
I hate that ascension means I primarily use raid gear, and will continue to do so.
Maybe that will change if I do a lighthouse trip, but I almost wish they had systems where ascending did different things like applying elemental damage to a non-elemental weapon, or changing potential perk sets.
I guess I'm just really excited about perk sets helping to flush out different specs, as opposed to really only rotating through Fatebringer/Vision of Confluence and Found Verdict/Swordbreaker.
If they ever do make legendaries become an exotic (maybe similar to the way Eidolon Ally becomes Necrochasm), I feel like they would need to get a 'The' before.
So 'Fatebringer' legendary becomes -> 'The Fatebringer' exotic
'Vision of Confluence' -> 'The Vision of Confluence'
etc. etc.
But that's the main thing! That's like everyone's main complaint.
We are being forced to (putting it in typical mmo terms)
1) Go through content with sub-par skill trees (our guns)
2) RNG to hopefully find a new better skill tree
3) Re-level this new skill tree
Any single part of that would be horrible in a typical mmo, but that's what we are expected to do in this game. Weapons NEED to be viewed as a literal extension of our skill trees, because for all intents and purposes they are. Ascension has to be a permanent part of the game due to the importance of weapons in the efficiency of characters.
Xbox Live / Steam
The system isn't without its drawback however. None of the legendaries in HoW is exciting to me. They are all quite boring. Sure, the Trials gear looks nice, but outside of that armor, everything else that isn't exotic is boring. They cannot touch the power they gave some of the older legendaries. If they did, the power creep would be way too high and the content would need to be tuned harder, which would suck.
So HoW is about making your old stuff relevant again. I think for exotics its awesome, but I wish I had better things to collect than Etheric Lights.
If they keep up with Etheric Light-style gear updates to keep the armor/damage values relevant I think the perks stay pretty valid. Like, I probably won't wear PoE armor regularly but the PoE-specific perks are pretty awesome for when you're doing that. It sounds like they're not going to add more PoE levels with Taken King, which is a shame, but I imagine I'll still be breaking it out whenever I want to try for one of the Ciphers for a character (y'know, once I successfully get one once...).
I've been using Vision of Confluence pretty regularly since I got it and it's not even fully leveled, much less ascended. The elemental damage lets me take out shielded dudes faster with its 270 or whatever damage than I would with a kinetic gun at 365.
I doubt it, and even if they did it does not mean the value of that stuff is Zero. There's a reason the CE costs more, its because it comes with the old content. Now, we will certainly see a price drop in the old content, but that's usual.
Yeah, not at all certain that year 1 exotics will be upgrading in perpetuity and the reason for that is quite simply gjallarhorn.
Ascension needs to be kept as an option in the future, absolutely.
I want this too for my old armor!
Molniya Type-1 = Heirloom Molniya Type 1
Holdfast Type 2 = Well-worn Holdfast Type 2
Shit, you can pile on the adjectives, just let me rock my old shit, it doesn't have to be best in slot, just viable!
Heirloom, Legacy, Well-Worn, Veteran's, Battle-Tested, Old Fart's, and so on.
See, that could be interesting.
Maybe obtain Arc Inducers to make a weapon Arc damage etc.
Then you'd have greater variance between guardians in PvE content. As soon as you get yourself a full set of elemental primaries now you're pretty much locked in to using them for PvE, given the small pool of elemental primaries most guardians have the same load-out.
But if you could pick and choose kinetic weapons to give an element... that could really make your guardians individuals.
Maybe you'd have to rip up the whole elemental system and make it so all weapons start off as kinetic except for exotics and raid weapons. Then you have to obtain the parts to make it the element you want, probably irreversibly in the same way that etheric light is.
Bungie will never do it, but it sounds intriguing to me.
Agreed. It definitely had something to do with the frustration people had over VoG's super-reliance on RNG. Some PAers still don't have a Mythoclast after running VoG like 50 times. That's insane.
Agree. The Trials gear looks cool, but there isn't too much else to get excited about. I think that's why I went for that all-New Monarchy look - it was at least somewhat distinctive that way - and I've since pretty much abandoned it because the perks weren't in line with my playstyle. Now, I'm just using whatever combination of gear maximizes my cooldowns, which is somewhat straightforward and boring. At least on my Hunter, I have a new goal in that I'm working towards maximizing my Glowhoo glow.
If anyone can find me an MMO expansion that came out within three months of launch and invalidated all the gear from launch the way Dark Below did, I will eat my hat.
Oh. Shit.
That would be awesome.
As you choose what perks to give your gear, it gets it's own adjectives that add onto it's name.
Perhaps not the actual title on the screen because that could fill-up fast, but maybe replacing the flavour text.
I suppose it would work similar to a transmog system. You'd buy gear to get the base visual model and styling, but then use different equipment acquired through raids to give it different perks and attributes, doing so changes the armour's legend.
Edit:
I'm conflicted between the fact you're aiding my argument and my desire to see someone eat a hat.
Speaking of which, @Dajoran when are we getting the picture of you crying with joy after you got your Gjallarhorn?
Going through content with sub-par stuff is also endemic to other mmos too. Every new xpac you're going to be killing stuff much, much slower than you were at the end of the last xpac, and for quite a while too. Basically until you're in full raid gear, which is months of time usually. It's just as frustrating, and I'm not really willing to defend it, because I dislike that aspect as much as releveling weapons in Destiny.
I agree that weapons are a unique thing in Destiny, and thing their design is a huge issue that Bungie is going to have a hell of a time working with. This isn't entirely relevant to the current discussion, but I want to bring it up anyway because it's interesting to me.
Consider that in most MMOs, the playbase has chosen a class they prefer and will stick with it even if it largely remains the same for months or years. Gear is obtained almost purely for numbers to rise, but the playstyle will (there are exceptions, especially these days, but not to a huge degree) remain largely the same. The variation in play comes from the application of the class playstyle to a large amount of raid boss mechanics.
This isn't a 1:1 comparison in Destiny, because weapons mean, as you suggest, that there is no established playstyle. Your playstyle will change based on what weapon you use. There are no long established skill rotations. This is very cool and one of the things I love about Destiny.
But it also presents Bungie with a massive problem, because the loot they offer as incentive to go forward isn't just increased numbers. It's different playstyles. They are, essentially, having to redesign skill trees constantly, and these can't just be tweaks on existing playstyles, they have to be entirely new ways to play the game. All the time. They can't ever stop, because to do so means that the new raid won't have new and interesting weapons, which are damn near the only reason people have for running new content.
I can't suggest a solution to this problem because I don't have one, but it's interesting to appreciate just how difficult Bungie has made a series like this for themselves. I hope they can continue to pull it off, but am skeptical, because it's a monumental task to generate interesting and unique perks for 9 years. And, really, you could argue that HoW is already a failure in that respect, because there isn't anything especially new or unique outside of the Sidearm.
sigh
Xbox Live / Steam
But then don't let me upgrade it to be equivalent to Level 30 gear. I can use my year 1 stuff as I grind my way up to base-level 30 and then put it on other characters as I grind them up, but eventually let me get new, better gear that's level 30. When the post-Taken King DLC comes out, let me upgrade my Taken King gear to the new caps but leave the old stuff.
Then, when Destiny 2 rolls around, just let us upgrade everything to max. At the end of the Destiny 1 lifecycle you can bust out anything you've got hanging around in your vault and go nuts.
Fatebringer and ballerhorn and Thorn and all are cool and I get that people get attached to their gear, but next summer I think it would be a lot more fun to be playing with a whole new set of top-tier stuff. If people are still saying, "Well, yeah, the new guns from the Cabal Are Finally Cool DLC are neat but I'd really just rather keep using my Fatebringer" in a year I think that would be pretty lame. And it's not like the current crop of top-tier equipment wouldn't still be awesome for the period between LL20 and LL35 or 40 or wherever new top-tier gear would require you to be.
Whoa, let's not move the goalposts here. Two points: 1) the MMO comparison has been aimed at pricing concerns; 2) TDB invalidated raid armor, specifically getting to 30 and beyond. There were plenty of launch weapons and exotic armors that TDB didn't invalidate.
Boots Week!
Titan:
Hunter:
Warlock:
Titan boots are perfect for me, I have trials helmet and chest with discipline and gloves with intellect, so boots with pure intellect will give me a decent Int/Dis pure Trials gear load out.
Hunter boots aren't bad. Probably grab them for appearance sake at least. I already have a pair with pure discipline from the last time, but they're special weapons ammo instead of heavy so I don't wear them that often.
Warlock Boots... disappointing. Special weapons rather than heavy and Dis/Str. Oh well.
Expansions? Perhaps not that fast.
Raids? Raids within expansions commonly replaced every single piece of gear you had gotten just months before.
I mean, it is a point that clearly states "noone gives a shit about what the vocal people on the internet are saying". Bungie from the start hinted at this, whenever someone asked a question that started with the hyperbole "the internet wants [x] why arent you doing that". That group is not nearly as important as they(we) think they(we) are. Devs in general are just starting to be a little more up front about it now.
edit: I think they will throw a pittance our way for sticking around. We won't get the same thing as the CE, so the CE retains its value. I'm guessing an additional shader, maybe ghost shader(remember those?) to commemorate. But I'm firmly in the "weill see" camp.
They'd also not have the awful looking pattern that the Kellbreaker ones have
Trials, though.....
Raid gear was relevant to progress to the next tier of content and in most cases required to. Expansions invalidate raid gear, subsequent raid tiers do not.
*sigh*
PSN: HooverFanPA
Steam: HooverFan
i'm not home yet gawl
Work faster!
I can be a third one for a Nightfall!
that doesn't work i've tried
they still keep me here as long and then they expect me to be a model employee
the monsters