I hope Rajan is exactly who he appears to be. A fantastic guy that, for whatever reason, Kala just doesn't love. I think there is a lot of room to explore that relationship without complicating it any more than it already is, and it is refreshing to see it told from the perspective of the person that doesn't love him rather than the person with unrequited feelings.
Now that I think about it, every character seems to be exactly what we see. They are complex, but their secrets are hidden from other people, not the audience.
What I really liked about the Kala plot is that I feel they were trying to juxtapose the loving LGBT relationships with this false hetero relationship.
Dracomicron - I like where you're going with the future plot speculation, but I think the story with Kala is better that Rajan is just legit the perfect guy for her, but in the end she didn't love him. He's progressive, respectful, and has a big heart but she can't reciprocate his feelings because she's in love with someone else. Although she's not homosexual, it ties in with other themes of the story that we can't choose who we love.
Don't get me wrong, I hope that I'm full of crap on this particular issue, because I love Rajan. I've just seen enough TV to know what the typical set-up for a second season bad is. That said, JMS and the Wachowskis also know what I know, and can easily avert it.
And yet all the late season character backstory/reveals seem designed to subvert our genre-savvy expectations. I have a feeling that Rajan is going to be exactly as he appears, because we've been groomed by serialized TV to be expecting a heel turn any minute from a character who's that wonderful.
And we already have a big bad for season 2.
Same as season 1.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Like the thing that makes Kala's story so compelling is just how conflicted she is. By all accounts Rajan is an amazing guy. He treats her well, is head over heels for her, not to mention good looking, rich, and successful. Everyone in her life is telling her how lucky she is!
And yet: she doesn't love him! DRAMA.
Making him a villain removes all the emotional weight of the decision she needs to make. It becomes an easy choice! Of course she shouldn't marry him - he's the bad guy!
And easy choices are boring.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
I imagine there will probably be ties between his company and Sun's and maybe Whispers. Given that it's a pharma company, and there was explicit mention of pharma stocks. Also the counterfeit drugs and what looked like the same drugs in Kenya. I bet he's innocent though. Just bad actors somewhere in the company.
I hope Rajan is exactly who he appears to be. A fantastic guy that, for whatever reason, Kala just doesn't love. I think there is a lot of room to explore that relationship without complicating it any more than it already is, and it is refreshing to see it told from the perspective of the person that doesn't love him rather than the person with unrequited feelings.
Now that I think about it, every character seems to be exactly what we see. They are complex, but their secrets are hidden from other people, not the audience.
I'd disagree with the second point. There's a lot about these characters that is deliberately withheld from the audience. We (and Kala) have no idea just how violent Wolfgang is until his best friend's life is in danger, and even then it isn't until the flashbacks of his childhood and the fight at his uncle's place that we see the brutality lurking under the surface. For half the show we're led to believe he's just a thief, but really he's been a killer the whole time.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
Babylon 5 did a good job of informing who late teenager me was.
In a lot of ways I can see this show informing me now into my late 30's. They're both about hope and humanity but I can see this being a much more nuanced and human version of that message.
It's grown up just as I have.
I'm in the same boat. Babylon 5 is a fantastic accomplishment.
I gotta say, in hindsight, whether it was the production quality, the state of the TV industry, or something innate to JMS, B5 feels a little... sterile... compared to Sense8. Maybe it was all the naked people in the latter...
I'm in the same boat. Babylon 5 is a fantastic accomplishment.
I gotta say, in hindsight, whether it was the production quality, the state of the TV industry, or something innate to JMS, B5 feels a little... sterile... compared to Sense8. Maybe it was all the naked people in the latter...
It's a combination of all (or most) of those. Babylon 5 was fantastic for it's time, but (IMO) it has not held up all that well. Part of that is because TV has moved in the direction that B5 tried to push it towards. B5 can be seen as a transition from episodic TV to serialized stories. And it STILL has not been surpassed in the planning department.
Shows like 24 (which would have benefited from season-long planning) and LOST (which would have benefited from series-long planning...) should have learned a few things from B5. I don't want to say B5 is responsible for the largely serialized dramas we see today because, frankly, I don't think it had much of an impact on TV. It was just ahead of it's time.
I kind of want to know what B5 would look like in the modern environment. Shorter seasons, better effects, better directing (like, early B5 seems shot like a soap opera). I also think we DO know what it would look like: Battlestar Galactica. Only, with a better final season.
I think part of it is that the smaller season format of Netflix and the all at once nature of it really limits Sense8 in a good way.
B5 could have stood to be limited in this way. Less filler and fluff and more tightly packed story would have made for a stronger show quite possibly.
Though I think with B5 the show we got was the result of JMS having to change his original plan early on and the result is a much better show than maybe we would have gotten. So maybe it's a happy accident and we wouldn't all be looking back as fondly on it had it happened in a different format.
Either way JMS and the Wachowski's working together in this format seem to really temper each other in a very good way.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
The Netflix format benefits shows in three ways:
1) Shorter seasons - this would benefit almost any show, especially serial shows. The traditional 22ish-episode seasons hurt almost everything. There is a reason that cable has been dominating the last decade, and this is a big part.
2) No commercial breaks - this makes the individual episode pacing less restrictive, you don't have to worry about hitting certain beats in time for breaks. It also allows for more variable episode length (you don't have to edit down to a specific timeframe).
3) All-at-once. This is probably the least important, but it changes how individual episodes and the season at the whole is structured.
All in all it makes for far fewer "artificial" restrictions on the creative team.
I do think the shorter season will help JMS. Also I think they are more open if they are getting new seasons or not for the writing aspect. That way they know when to end it.
B5 in a way that 4th season, which was incredible, was two seasons mashed into 1 because they thought they were being canceled. The final season was actually suppose to be the siege of Earth and rebellion against Earth. Instead they had to clip the Shadow Warrior and put that into the 4th season.
And that is also part of the reason the 5th felt off because they didn't realize they were getting it till after the 4th was shot and in the can.
JMS sure has had some trouble with his series. B5 had its cancellation threats, Crusade was cancelled middle of the Season 1 and Jeremiah (IMHO: his best series) got cancelled after the 2nd Season.
JMS sure has had some trouble with his series. B5 had its cancellation threats, Crusade was cancelled middle of the Season 1 and Jeremiah (IMHO: his best series) got cancelled after the 2nd Season.
Hopefully Sense8 fares better.
Crusade was made but not ever supported by the network.
Talking to Bruce Boxleitner about it a few years ago when I met him at the Denver Comicon and the show was just a mess.
The shorter seasons depend entirely on the writers. I mean, look at Sense8: We need a season 2 because nothing was really resolved. They didn't introduce plot hooks at the end- they just left almost all of them going from episode 1.
And yeah, Kala probably isn't just going to hope onto a plane. But, then again, Will did. Granted he had way more of a push, but everyone is just falling for the same crap she is: She totally can just say "No.". The end. Rajan has be picking up on her "Thanks, no thanks." but is (somewhat understandably) really deep into denial "We TOTALLY should get married now, RIGHT? RIGHT?!?".
And Wolfgang isn't a monster, far from it. The guy has too big of a heart, in fact. He'd be better off he was a bit more a black-hearted bastard, but he isn't. Kala will hopefully help him realize that. But we have too many happy couples probably. Someone needs to do the Will They/Won't They dance...
Not everything needs to be resolved in one season. It's almost like there's a multi-year plan for this show...
This season has an arc (the sensates learning about each other and what they can do), an arc that is largely "resolved" in the final episode. Most / all of the characters have an arc where major conflicts are introduced and resolved. It doesn't mean that their story is wrapped up, either on a personal level or as a group, and yes, things are left hanging for later. Everything, or at least almost everything, from episode 1 receives significant advancement over the course of the season.
I feel like one of the themes of the show is that just because really bad things are going on elsewhere, doesn't mean that your feelings don't matter. Yes, Kala can just say no, and her life isn't in danger like some of the other characters, but the feelings of her loved ones are important to her, and she doesn't want to disappoint them.
I do wonder about the mechanics of the sensate abilities. I mean, could someone effectively join a cluster by meeting every member in person and looking them in the eye?
I do wonder about the mechanics of the sensate abilities. I mean, could someone effectively join a cluster by meeting every member in person and looking them in the eye?
They could visit, they could not share. As described in like, ep2.
I've been listening to 4 Non Blondes constantly for several days now, because that scene resonated with me a lot in ways I can't really explain. 4 minutes of television gave me a permanent emotional connection with a song I had never (or, don't remember) hearing before.
I take it that you haven't been exposed to the "He-man sings 4 Non Blondes" meme yet? Unfortunately, because I was exposed to that meme, I kept inserting cartoon He-man in between the cuts between the characters. Strangely, the emotional resonance of the scene wasn't lost in the process...
And now I want to see a Sens8 channel a cartoon He-man.
For anyone interested, if you like the shared mind concept there's a book series called Old Man's War that does something similar. It's comparable to Starship Troopers. Highly recommend the first two books then reading nothing else further in the series.
Old Man's War is great and like Starship Troopers, but in in no way is either like Sense8...just...not.
I said Old Man's War is similar to Starship Troopers, not Sense8. The only similarity between the show and book is the shared mind concept which is something I always find interesting.
I've watched the first five episodes of this, and if I didn't have to get ready for work right now I would watch more immediately. It is kind of slow but intriguing enough and well directed to keep me going. I am glad this is on Netflix where it has a chance at future seasons as opposed to network TV where the lowest common denominator would get bored or confused in a weekly format and the show would get canceled and never get a second season.
For anyone interested, if you like the shared mind concept there's a book series called Old Man's War that does something similar. It's comparable to Starship Troopers. Highly recommend the first two books then reading nothing else further in the series.
Old Man's War is great and like Starship Troopers, but in in no way is either like Sense8...just...not.
I said Old Man's War is similar to Starship Troopers, not Sense8. The only similarity between the show and book is the shared mind concept which is something I always find interesting.
Oh, half my mistake, then. But Sense8 is the only one about shared minds. Unless I'm forgetting something major.
I've watched the first five episodes of this, and if I didn't have to get ready for work right now I would watch more immediately. It is kind of slow but intriguing enough and well directed to keep me going. I am glad this is on Netflix where it has a chance at future seasons as opposed to network TV where the lowest common denominator would get bored or confused in a weekly format and the show would get canceled and never get a second season.
Totally agreed. This would have be canned by episode 3 if it was on a network. Of course, we don't know if it's still alive or not anyway, right? Here's hoping!
I hope we get another cluster next season, though that would balloon the cast like crazy.
Enjoying this for the most part. Finished ep 10 tonight.
A bit wary that it seems unlikely to have much closure, but who knows.
One episode 10 comment.
With the various birth scenes. Boy they really seem a bit judgmental about folks having their babies in hospitals. The only one shown in a hospital was the cold mother who doesn't understand her child, and it was cut out of her in a violent memory in a sterile room.
This show seems to have this weird gulf between the ratings from critics and general viewers so hopefully it gets another season from strong word of mouth from us people that like it telling people that the critics either didn't get it or have some weird hatred of the Wachoskis. Are they still bitter over the Matrix sequels sucking? I loved Speed Racer and Cloud Atlas myself and thought they were severely underrated like this show is getting.
Or maybe the critics are just a bunch of homophobes.
For anyone interested, if you like the shared mind concept there's a book series called Old Man's War that does something similar. It's comparable to Starship Troopers. Highly recommend the first two books then reading nothing else further in the series.
Old Man's War is great and like Starship Troopers, but in in no way is either like Sense8...just...not.
I said Old Man's War is similar to Starship Troopers, not Sense8. The only similarity between the show and book is the shared mind concept which is something I always find interesting.
Oh, half my mistake, then. But Sense8 is the only one about shared minds. Unless I'm forgetting something major.
The BrainPals! Their potential is touched on a bit in the first book but the second focuses on people who've lived their whole lives able to connect to and experience anything anyone in their squad is doing.
And having finished Sense8, the fact that it's only used for war in that book makes me sad.
For anyone interested, if you like the shared mind concept there's a book series called Old Man's War that does something similar. It's comparable to Starship Troopers. Highly recommend the first two books then reading nothing else further in the series.
Old Man's War is great and like Starship Troopers, but in in no way is either like Sense8...just...not.
I said Old Man's War is similar to Starship Troopers, not Sense8. The only similarity between the show and book is the shared mind concept which is something I always find interesting.
Oh, half my mistake, then. But Sense8 is the only one about shared minds. Unless I'm forgetting something major.
The BrainPals! Their potential is touched on a bit in the first book but the second focuses on people who've lived their whole lives able to connect to and experience anything anyone in their squad is doing.
And having finished Sense8, the fact that it's only used for war in that book makes me sad.
Is Dr.Skullcutter from Will's youth Whispers? Because I faintly remember little Will running away and the doctor shouting "Look at me!"...
And was he cutting open Sara (who obviously was also a Sensate)?
Is Dr.Skullcutter from Will's youth Whispers? Because I faintly remember little Will running away and the doctor shouting "Look at me!"...
And was he cutting open Sara (who obviously was also a Sensate)?
It's never addressed, but my assumption is that yes, that was an early interaction with Mr. Whispers. After all, Mr. Whispers was a professor/researcher at the University of Chicago where he trained Metzger.
Did they put up a fight or was resistance futile? Well, I'm sure they were able to assimilate into the rest of Sigil's society after their collective was dissolved.
Posts
Now that I think about it, every character seems to be exactly what we see. They are complex, but their secrets are hidden from other people, not the audience.
And yet all the late season character backstory/reveals seem designed to subvert our genre-savvy expectations. I have a feeling that Rajan is going to be exactly as he appears, because we've been groomed by serialized TV to be expecting a heel turn any minute from a character who's that wonderful.
And we already have a big bad for season 2.
Quite possibly, although this is a very different show than Daredevil.
And yet: she doesn't love him! DRAMA.
Making him a villain removes all the emotional weight of the decision she needs to make. It becomes an easy choice! Of course she shouldn't marry him - he's the bad guy!
And easy choices are boring.
I'd disagree with the second point. There's a lot about these characters that is deliberately withheld from the audience. We (and Kala) have no idea just how violent Wolfgang is until his best friend's life is in danger, and even then it isn't until the flashbacks of his childhood and the fight at his uncle's place that we see the brutality lurking under the surface. For half the show we're led to believe he's just a thief, but really he's been a killer the whole time.
I gotta say, in hindsight, whether it was the production quality, the state of the TV industry, or something innate to JMS, B5 feels a little... sterile... compared to Sense8. Maybe it was all the naked people in the latter...
It's a combination of all (or most) of those. Babylon 5 was fantastic for it's time, but (IMO) it has not held up all that well. Part of that is because TV has moved in the direction that B5 tried to push it towards. B5 can be seen as a transition from episodic TV to serialized stories. And it STILL has not been surpassed in the planning department.
Shows like 24 (which would have benefited from season-long planning) and LOST (which would have benefited from series-long planning...) should have learned a few things from B5. I don't want to say B5 is responsible for the largely serialized dramas we see today because, frankly, I don't think it had much of an impact on TV. It was just ahead of it's time.
I kind of want to know what B5 would look like in the modern environment. Shorter seasons, better effects, better directing (like, early B5 seems shot like a soap opera). I also think we DO know what it would look like: Battlestar Galactica. Only, with a better final season.
B5 could have stood to be limited in this way. Less filler and fluff and more tightly packed story would have made for a stronger show quite possibly.
Though I think with B5 the show we got was the result of JMS having to change his original plan early on and the result is a much better show than maybe we would have gotten. So maybe it's a happy accident and we wouldn't all be looking back as fondly on it had it happened in a different format.
Either way JMS and the Wachowski's working together in this format seem to really temper each other in a very good way.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
1) Shorter seasons - this would benefit almost any show, especially serial shows. The traditional 22ish-episode seasons hurt almost everything. There is a reason that cable has been dominating the last decade, and this is a big part.
2) No commercial breaks - this makes the individual episode pacing less restrictive, you don't have to worry about hitting certain beats in time for breaks. It also allows for more variable episode length (you don't have to edit down to a specific timeframe).
3) All-at-once. This is probably the least important, but it changes how individual episodes and the season at the whole is structured.
All in all it makes for far fewer "artificial" restrictions on the creative team.
B5 in a way that 4th season, which was incredible, was two seasons mashed into 1 because they thought they were being canceled. The final season was actually suppose to be the siege of Earth and rebellion against Earth. Instead they had to clip the Shadow Warrior and put that into the 4th season.
And that is also part of the reason the 5th felt off because they didn't realize they were getting it till after the 4th was shot and in the can.
Hopefully Sense8 fares better.
Crusade was made but not ever supported by the network.
Talking to Bruce Boxleitner about it a few years ago when I met him at the Denver Comicon and the show was just a mess.
And yeah, Kala probably isn't just going to hope onto a plane. But, then again, Will did. Granted he had way more of a push, but everyone is just falling for the same crap she is: She totally can just say "No.". The end. Rajan has be picking up on her "Thanks, no thanks." but is (somewhat understandably) really deep into denial "We TOTALLY should get married now, RIGHT? RIGHT?!?".
And Wolfgang isn't a monster, far from it. The guy has too big of a heart, in fact. He'd be better off he was a bit more a black-hearted bastard, but he isn't. Kala will hopefully help him realize that. But we have too many happy couples probably. Someone needs to do the Will They/Won't They dance...
This season has an arc (the sensates learning about each other and what they can do), an arc that is largely "resolved" in the final episode. Most / all of the characters have an arc where major conflicts are introduced and resolved. It doesn't mean that their story is wrapped up, either on a personal level or as a group, and yes, things are left hanging for later. Everything, or at least almost everything, from episode 1 receives significant advancement over the course of the season.
Seriously, we don't even know why sense7 just disappeared.
Darryl Hannah is the sensate that was.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
They could visit, they could not share. As described in like, ep2.
And now I want to see a Sens8 channel a cartoon He-man.
I said Old Man's War is similar to Starship Troopers, not Sense8. The only similarity between the show and book is the shared mind concept which is something I always find interesting.
Oh, half my mistake, then. But Sense8 is the only one about shared minds. Unless I'm forgetting something major.
Totally agreed. This would have be canned by episode 3 if it was on a network. Of course, we don't know if it's still alive or not anyway, right? Here's hoping!
I hope we get another cluster next season, though that would balloon the cast like crazy.
A bit wary that it seems unlikely to have much closure, but who knows.
One episode 10 comment.
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The show did seem to have a thing about babies being born towards the end, though. Suppose it fits into the whole being re-born thing.
Or maybe the critics are just a bunch of homophobes.
Mercykillers probably got them. Not that it matters, they're with the Dusties now, purged of all passions and ascended to the True Death.
I was wondering how long it would take until someone started dropping Planescape references.
Although the proper answer is that they disbanded after the Faction War.
The BrainPals! Their potential is touched on a bit in the first book but the second focuses on people who've lived their whole lives able to connect to and experience anything anyone in their squad is doing.
And having finished Sense8, the fact that it's only used for war in that book makes me sad.
Humans, am I right?
And was he cutting open Sara (who obviously was also a Sensate)?
Not a fan of the cold open. Something about the soundtrack, very eh.
I am liking Seoul lady tho. Think she was in The Host? Also that one guy looks like 'murican Russel Tovey. :P
Hey Freema Agyeman! Hey her accent sucks!
Did they put up a fight or was resistance futile? Well, I'm sure they were able to assimilate into the rest of Sigil's society after their collective was dissolved.