That wedge fight was bloody boring as hell. I thought wedges weren't allowed?
Wedges are allowed provided the bot has another type of weapon.
Every bot must have a real weapon (or multiple weapons). If the weapon does not look like it can damage or incapacitate another bot, your bot may not be accepted.
Weapon Definition
A weapon is a powered part of your bot that is remotely operated, independent of its mobility method (wheels or otherwise). The weapon can be used in conjunction with moving the bot, but the basic effectiveness of the weapon cannot depend on moving the bot. Wedges, Thwackbots and such are allowed, but are not weapons by themselves.
That wedge fight was bloody boring as hell. I thought wedges weren't allowed?
ghost raptor vs. warrior clan?
ghost raptor is technically a lifter + horizontal spinner, just their lifter is useless at actually lifting anything and the spinner broke in the first round.
and warrior clan is a flipper+ horizontal spinner. But it appears that neither weapon was working well because of electrical problems.
None of the bots are just a static wedge,which is what was banned, they all have at least something that moves.
The build/execution quality between some teams are super apparent. No spare blade... Seriously? The main moving part and weapon of your bot and you don't being extra?
I wouldn't mind if they limited or banned 360 degree horizontal spinner weapons. While I appreciate the destructiveness, I think they are too good for both offense and defense and don't need to be driven at all well to be effective. Vertical spinners, for example, have drawbacks (exposed flanks, gyroscopically limited mobility) that counterbalance their destructive potential. I think horizontal spinners should at the very least be limited in that the blades can't cover all sides of the robot to give them some potential defensive weakness. So for example, Warhead, Tombstone, or WarriorClan's horizontal spinners would be allowed, Icewave's would not.
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Robot Demonstration with "Lock-Jaw" and "Stinger" to Follow Panel featuring Robot Builders, Creators and Executive Producers of Hit Series
Exclusive Sneak Peak of upcoming BATTLEBOTS Fight Unveiled
For anyone a bit underwhelmed by Stinger, that's just because you haven't seen it in a fight where it was really thrown around/where it's done any kind of 'victory dance'. Its match with Bronco should be one to watch.
I wouldn't mind if they limited or banned 360 degree horizontal spinner weapons. While I appreciate the destructiveness, I think they are too good for both offense and defense and don't need to be driven at all well to be effective. Vertical spinners, for example, have drawbacks (exposed flanks, gyroscopically limited mobility) that counterbalance their destructive potential. I think horizontal spinners should at the very least be limited in that the blades can't cover all sides of the robot to give them some potential defensive weakness. So for example, Warhead or WarriorClan's horizontal spinners would be allowed, Icewave's would not.
I don't know, I'd think that limiting any kind of weapon would be bad for the game, and shell spinners aren't exactly invincible (Stinger's first win this season was against 'Murica the Spinner. Generally, if you hit them hard enough, they break.
The problem with that though, is that when you're looking at bots built specifically to ram something hard enough to break it, but still being strong enough to not break itself in order to beat the shell spinners, you get boring wedges and brick bots that are dreadfully uninspiring in most any other matchup.
Radioactive is going to get fucking murdered by Tombstone
It has these giant flanks on it to make up the symbol that are just going to get eaten by Tombstone's blade
I'm not imagining that that match is going to last very long. Though Radioactive's last match was against another bar spinner, but one that was having some issues. I do hope we get to see some of Radioactive before the match, it looks like it's got some interesting features that I'm pretty sure won't be showcased (or able to be showcased) after the match.
Horizontal spinners are so exciting to watch that it would be foolish to ban them when they haven't even proved themselves to be dominant. At this point I'm not convinced a robot like Tombstone can't be countered by a bot with a sufficiently reinforced flipper, something like Bronco.
Did Team Radioactive do zero fucking research into how armor piecing melee weapons work? What the hell are they hoping to accomplish with that thing?
Like I sort of alluded to earlier, UK bots have some very different selection pressures that do not mix well with the spinner-laden hellfest that is US Robot Combat.
Did Team Radioactive do zero fucking research into how armor piecing melee weapons work? What the hell are they hoping to accomplish with that thing?
Like I sort of alluded to earlier, UK bots have some very different selection pressures that do not mix well with the spinner-laden hellfest that is US Robot Combat.
It's looking like vertical blades just don't work at all at this point. You have to make too many design compromises for a weapon that doesn't actually do that much.
As silly as the "fights" with Bronco have been, I can't help but like that thing. There's something to be said for a flipper so powerful that it even launches the robot itself. I want to see what it can do against a horizontal spinner.
It's looking like vertical blades just don't work at all at this point. You have to make too many design compromises for a weapon that doesn't actually do that much.
As silly as the "fights" with Bronco have been, I can't help but like that thing. There's something to be said for a flipper so powerful that it even launches the robot itself. I want to see what it can do against a horizontal spinner.
Hypershock, next week. Vertical spinning drum, the predominant form of spinning weapon in the sport to this day. There's a reason for it, and you're likely to see it against Bite Force.
It's looking like vertical blades just don't work at all at this point. You have to make too many design compromises for a weapon that doesn't actually do that much.
As silly as the "fights" with Bronco have been, I can't help but like that thing. There's something to be said for a flipper so powerful that it even launches the robot itself. I want to see what it can do against a horizontal spinner.
their other robot from the earlier competitions (el toro) was rad too
It's looking like vertical blades just don't work at all at this point. You have to make too many design compromises for a weapon that doesn't actually do that much.
As silly as the "fights" with Bronco have been, I can't help but like that thing. There's something to be said for a flipper so powerful that it even launches the robot itself. I want to see what it can do against a horizontal spinner.
Agreed. Vertical spinning disks (I wish everybody would stop calling them blades, but that's my issue) have too small of a hit box, and by the time you get enough mass spinning fast enough for an effective hit, you've got some insane gyroscopic forces making it even harder to accurately target.
Like Emissary said, spinning drums take care of both these problems nicely.
What I really want to see is Bronco flipping Tombstone into the air, and Tombstone landing on its spinner. I'm not even going to try to predict what would happen, but I'm betting it would be awesome.
Did Team Radioactive do zero fucking research into how armor piecing melee weapons work? What the hell are they hoping to accomplish with that thing?
Like I sort of alluded to earlier, UK bots have some very different selection pressures that do not mix well with the spinner-laden hellfest that is US Robot Combat.
Yeah, but even in its own little world, what are they thinking a horizontal blade like that would do against any sort of robot armor? There's a reason why medieval weaponry went the way of weapons like the longsword and estoc and tactics like half-swording that can apply a huge mount of force to a piercing point once plate armor became a thing. Mounting a pick at the end of that arm would have made waaaay more sense.
I guess maybe they thought that it'd be kinda like a neat robot polearm? But even then that's just daffy unless they can somehow generate an absurd amount of force with the short lever they have and even then it'd be better to have used a pick design. Look at most any polearm and you'll see some sort of armor piercing point on it.
Radioactive went up against a bot that broke down right at the start of the match and wasn't able to win without a judge decision. Tombstone is going to literally eat it alive.
What I really want to see is Bronco flipping Tombstone into the air, and Tombstone landing on its spinner. I'm not even going to try to predict what would happen, but I'm betting it would be awesome.
I really want to see Bronco toss itself into the air and drop onto Tombstone's spinner. Just think it would be funny to see.
Radioactive went up against a bot that broke down right at the start of the match and wasn't able to win without a judge decision. Tombstone is going to literally eat it alive.
Radioactive is a neat looking robot but I can already see it getting at least one of its wheel pods absolutely blown the fuck off.
I wonder how much pneumatic power you could get into one these. With enough traction, could you glass cannon it - push the other bot against a wall and then stab it with a spear.
So this episode kinda proved my point that Chomp and Witch Doctor got in because they have women builders/drivers. Seriously, how do you call yourself Chomp and all you did was blow flames? I didn't see that hook thing move once. Plan X was a boring bot.
Now Warrior Clan vs. Ghost Raptor was interesting to me. I don't believe they didn't bring a spare blade, I think they knew it would be useless against such a low bot. That blade would never had hit WC and they knew it. I'm sure we'll see the blade back next round. GR's biggest weakness is it's driver. Too many times he would over turn and suddenly be facing away from his target, which will cost him in future battles.
Also, how shitty is the arena built? Quite a few times the "imperfections" have damage a bot.
Horizontal spinners are so exciting to watch that it would be foolish to ban them when they haven't even proved themselves to be dominant. At this point I'm not convinced a robot like Tombstone can't be countered by a bot with a sufficiently reinforced flipper, something like Bronco.
I think the other things that keeps horizontal spinners from being banned is they are almost as likely to break themselves as their opponents. The shock those things take if their blades get stopped by something can easily wreck their own motor. It is why tombstone is such a good design make an incredibly heavy reinforced blade that is unlikely to be forced to a complete stop by something.
So this episode kinda proved my point that Chomp and Witch Doctor got in because they have women builders/drivers. Seriously, how do you call yourself Chomp and all you did was blow flames? I didn't see that hook thing move once. Plan X was a boring bot.
My guess for Plan X is that it's a veteran team from the original show - a bit more than half of the competitors were in at least one season of BattleBots prior to this one - and had a history of making crowd-pleasing robots. Based on the fact they used a kit chassis, I'm guessing for some reason there was too much time pressure for Plan X's team to really do much else (most of the robots you see went from nothing to fully-built in less than six weeks, which is insane). Even derpy robot aside, Plan X still had a pretty good driver relatively speaking; if they come back next year with a proper non-kit robot they could be interesting.
Chomp on the other hand was the reverse: new team, minimal driving experience, but a very well-engineered first robot. General consensus is that the 'story' possibilities following the team lead got them the Wildcard slot, but that wasn't enough against a veteran driver of a very destructive and very refined robot. Expect them back next year with a more competitive and updated Chomp.
Also, how shitty is the arena built? Quite a few times the "imperfections" have damage a bot.
All the competitors know the arena floor isn't absolutely flat, but the advantage gained by being just a hair closer to the floor is often worth the risk of catching one of the floor plates. That extra 1/4" can be the difference between staying on the ground or sailing 6 feet through the air after the lip of Bronco's weapon gets under you.
edit - addressing Pony below, I'm not of the opinion they're on because they're women, especially not Plan X (a veteran team from the old days). This post was to rebut Grunt's Ghosts points on the matter. If that was the goal, odds are better than not there would have been a lot more on the show. Some of the extra showcasing may be because they are women, but in the interest of inspiring more woman entrants into the sport and its related fields (which is a good thing).
I wish stinger had ended up on ICEWave's side of the bracket. I don't see any of the bots on that side giving ICEWave much trouble barring self inflicted internal damage and Stinger looks like it's low enough that it could slip under their blade. On the other half of the bracket it seems like the semi's will come down to Bronco/Stinger and Tombstone with Tombstone being the heavy favorite.
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I wish stinger had ended up on ICEWave's side of the bracket. I don't see any of the bots on that side giving ICEWave much trouble barring self inflicted internal damage and Stinger looks like it's low enough that it could slip under their blade. On the other half of the bracket it seems like the semi's will come down to Bronco/Stinger and Tombstone with Tombstone being the heavy favorite.
BiteForce is on ICEWave's side of the bracket and will give ICEWave as much trouble as Stinger would.
At least we'll get one or two good showings of Witch Doctor & Shaman across the remainder of the tournament. I'm expecting a big win vs Overdrive despite that robot's speed, since it looks like they did not add armor to their ebike in-wheel motors.
edit - What lurks under Bronco's armor shell:
Two of the following, mirrored on each side, and capable of operating independently: A 4500 PSI carbon refill tank, hooked to a regulator at 800 PSI, connected by way of a 1/8" braided steel line to a one-liter buffer tank that is in turn attached to a Lockheed valve from the '50s. This valve is connected with a 3/4" line to a 2" diameter, 8" stroke hydraulic ram normally used as a flap actuator for an aircraft.
At least we'll get one or two good showings of Witch Doctor & Shaman across the remainder of the tournament. I'm expecting a big win vs Overdrive despite that robot's speed, since it looks like they did not add armor to their ebike in-wheel motors.
Those big rubbery tires on Overdrive... I'm hoping that the flame thrower gets some use on them.
Dude, can you lay off the "they're only in the competition because they're women" garbage?
It makes you sound like a certain internet gaming subculture.
It's not that I think it's a bad thing, I would love to see more women in these competition but I also think there are better bots that didn't get a spot because of it. But I'll quit talking about it if it's making me sound like Gamergaters because that's not what I want to come across as.
At least we'll get one or two good showings of Witch Doctor & Shaman across the remainder of the tournament. I'm expecting a big win vs Overdrive despite that robot's speed, since it looks like they did not add armor to their ebike in-wheel motors.
edit - What lurks under Bronco's armor shell:
Two of the following, mirrored on each side, and capable of operating independently: A 4500 PSI carbon refill tank, hooked to a regulator at 800 PSI, connected by way of a 1/8" braided steel line to a one-liter buffer tank that is in turn attached to a Lockheed valve from the '50s. This valve is connected with a 3/4" line to a 2" diameter, 8" stroke hydraulic ram normally used as a flap actuator for an aircraft.
This post is roughly 10 times as interesting as the info segments Battlebots has been inserting between their fights. Some actual information with some design specifics about the guts of the robot, instead of "my robot is SO awesome, ultimate weapon so great, smash real good".
Regarding the soon to be Tombstone fight: I'm really hoping the Tombstone team doesn't stop after they disable Radioactive 10s seconds in and just go for total annihilation. The weak must be culled.
I wonder if you could build a show off of teams designing and iteratively improving robots to fight against each other, rather than bringing years of independent work into a single elimination tournament. I want to see terrible robots getting torn apart, and the designers actually analyzing what went wrong and trying to improve their designs, rather than just disappearing until the next tournament or possibly forever.
I wonder what the odds are that a spinner bot ruptures a gas tank...
As designed, I believe that once the consequences from the tank spilling out have resolved, the flipper should continue to operate at half power.
I'm actually kind of curious as to how much effort designers put into mangling their own robots to see what happens. They can't go too crazy with it since they have to replace parts, but adding armor and just hoping that it works seems like an excellent way to lose.
I wonder what the odds are that a spinner bot ruptures a gas tank...
As designed, I believe that once the consequences from the tank spilling out have resolved, the flipper should continue to operate at full power.
I'm actually kind of curious as to how much effort designers put into mangling their own robots to see what happens. They can't go too crazy with it since they have to replace parts, but adding armor and just hoping that it works seems like an excellent way to lose.
In my experience, not a ton (for cost reasons) but systems are at least live-tested to try to find electrical faults or glaring mechanical issues. For small weight classes (30lbs and below), competitions are much more frequent so iteration is much more the name of the game. Another sort of interesting difference is as your robot's mass drops, the proportional amount of destruction they can cause in terms of stored energy per unit mass goes up. This helps manage the Wedge problem, and also makes for entertaining fights where tiny one or three pound robots fling themselves all over the arena every time they make a solid contact.
I wonder if you could build a show off of teams designing and iteratively improving robots to fight against each other, rather than bringing years of independent work into a single elimination tournament. I want to see terrible robots getting torn apart, and the designers actually analyzing what went wrong and trying to improve their designs, rather than just disappearing until the next tournament or possibly forever.
Kind of a junk yard wars meets battle bots? I think that would be cool. Or maybe take a chopped approach and have teams have to assemble bots with a grab bag of parts and a couple days? I wonder how feasible that would be.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
What if both teams get random junk they MUST use on the bot as weapons, but then they can add their own things also, like Iron Chef but with combat robots
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lifters are super lame and boring.
If your going to make your bot focus on lifting other bots into the air, make it so that it does that really really fast and throws them.
Wedges are allowed provided the bot has another type of weapon.
ghost raptor vs. warrior clan?
ghost raptor is technically a lifter + horizontal spinner, just their lifter is useless at actually lifting anything and the spinner broke in the first round.
and warrior clan is a flipper+ horizontal spinner. But it appears that neither weapon was working well because of electrical problems.
None of the bots are just a static wedge,which is what was banned, they all have at least something that moves.
For anyone a bit underwhelmed by Stinger, that's just because you haven't seen it in a fight where it was really thrown around/where it's done any kind of 'victory dance'. Its match with Bronco should be one to watch.
It has these giant flanks on it to make up the symbol that are just going to get eaten by Tombstone's blade
I don't know, I'd think that limiting any kind of weapon would be bad for the game, and shell spinners aren't exactly invincible (Stinger's first win this season was against 'Murica the Spinner. Generally, if you hit them hard enough, they break.
The problem with that though, is that when you're looking at bots built specifically to ram something hard enough to break it, but still being strong enough to not break itself in order to beat the shell spinners, you get boring wedges and brick bots that are dreadfully uninspiring in most any other matchup.
I'm not imagining that that match is going to last very long. Though Radioactive's last match was against another bar spinner, but one that was having some issues. I do hope we get to see some of Radioactive before the match, it looks like it's got some interesting features that I'm pretty sure won't be showcased (or able to be showcased) after the match.
Actual fight footage starts at 14 seconds, and isn't remarkably impressive.
Like I sort of alluded to earlier, UK bots have some very different selection pressures that do not mix well with the spinner-laden hellfest that is US Robot Combat.
It's not just Flavor Town that we own.
As silly as the "fights" with Bronco have been, I can't help but like that thing. There's something to be said for a flipper so powerful that it even launches the robot itself. I want to see what it can do against a horizontal spinner.
Hypershock, next week. Vertical spinning drum, the predominant form of spinning weapon in the sport to this day. There's a reason for it, and you're likely to see it against Bite Force.
their other robot from the earlier competitions (el toro) was rad too
Like Emissary said, spinning drums take care of both these problems nicely.
Yeah, but even in its own little world, what are they thinking a horizontal blade like that would do against any sort of robot armor? There's a reason why medieval weaponry went the way of weapons like the longsword and estoc and tactics like half-swording that can apply a huge mount of force to a piercing point once plate armor became a thing. Mounting a pick at the end of that arm would have made waaaay more sense.
I guess maybe they thought that it'd be kinda like a neat robot polearm? But even then that's just daffy unless they can somehow generate an absurd amount of force with the short lever they have and even then it'd be better to have used a pick design. Look at most any polearm and you'll see some sort of armor piercing point on it.
I really want to see Bronco toss itself into the air and drop onto Tombstone's spinner. Just think it would be funny to see.
EDIT:
Lol, all of Radioactive's weapon footage was edited to make it not look awful.
Now Warrior Clan vs. Ghost Raptor was interesting to me. I don't believe they didn't bring a spare blade, I think they knew it would be useless against such a low bot. That blade would never had hit WC and they knew it. I'm sure we'll see the blade back next round. GR's biggest weakness is it's driver. Too many times he would over turn and suddenly be facing away from his target, which will cost him in future battles.
Also, how shitty is the arena built? Quite a few times the "imperfections" have damage a bot.
I think the other things that keeps horizontal spinners from being banned is they are almost as likely to break themselves as their opponents. The shock those things take if their blades get stopped by something can easily wreck their own motor. It is why tombstone is such a good design make an incredibly heavy reinforced blade that is unlikely to be forced to a complete stop by something.
My guess for Plan X is that it's a veteran team from the original show - a bit more than half of the competitors were in at least one season of BattleBots prior to this one - and had a history of making crowd-pleasing robots. Based on the fact they used a kit chassis, I'm guessing for some reason there was too much time pressure for Plan X's team to really do much else (most of the robots you see went from nothing to fully-built in less than six weeks, which is insane). Even derpy robot aside, Plan X still had a pretty good driver relatively speaking; if they come back next year with a proper non-kit robot they could be interesting.
Chomp on the other hand was the reverse: new team, minimal driving experience, but a very well-engineered first robot. General consensus is that the 'story' possibilities following the team lead got them the Wildcard slot, but that wasn't enough against a veteran driver of a very destructive and very refined robot. Expect them back next year with a more competitive and updated Chomp.
All the competitors know the arena floor isn't absolutely flat, but the advantage gained by being just a hair closer to the floor is often worth the risk of catching one of the floor plates. That extra 1/4" can be the difference between staying on the ground or sailing 6 feet through the air after the lip of Bronco's weapon gets under you.
edit - addressing Pony below, I'm not of the opinion they're on because they're women, especially not Plan X (a veteran team from the old days). This post was to rebut Grunt's Ghosts points on the matter. If that was the goal, odds are better than not there would have been a lot more on the show. Some of the extra showcasing may be because they are women, but in the interest of inspiring more woman entrants into the sport and its related fields (which is a good thing).
It makes you sound like a certain internet gaming subculture.
BiteForce is on ICEWave's side of the bracket and will give ICEWave as much trouble as Stinger would.
edit - What lurks under Bronco's armor shell:
Two of the following, mirrored on each side, and capable of operating independently: A 4500 PSI carbon refill tank, hooked to a regulator at 800 PSI, connected by way of a 1/8" braided steel line to a one-liter buffer tank that is in turn attached to a Lockheed valve from the '50s. This valve is connected with a 3/4" line to a 2" diameter, 8" stroke hydraulic ram normally used as a flap actuator for an aircraft.
Those big rubbery tires on Overdrive... I'm hoping that the flame thrower gets some use on them.
Regarding the soon to be Tombstone fight: I'm really hoping the Tombstone team doesn't stop after they disable Radioactive 10s seconds in and just go for total annihilation. The weak must be culled.
As designed, I believe that once the consequences from the tank spilling out have resolved, the flipper should continue to operate at half power.
I'm actually kind of curious as to how much effort designers put into mangling their own robots to see what happens. They can't go too crazy with it since they have to replace parts, but adding armor and just hoping that it works seems like an excellent way to lose.
Edit: Messed up the power.
In my experience, not a ton (for cost reasons) but systems are at least live-tested to try to find electrical faults or glaring mechanical issues. For small weight classes (30lbs and below), competitions are much more frequent so iteration is much more the name of the game. Another sort of interesting difference is as your robot's mass drops, the proportional amount of destruction they can cause in terms of stored energy per unit mass goes up. This helps manage the Wedge problem, and also makes for entertaining fights where tiny one or three pound robots fling themselves all over the arena every time they make a solid contact.
Kind of a junk yard wars meets battle bots? I think that would be cool. Or maybe take a chopped approach and have teams have to assemble bots with a grab bag of parts and a couple days? I wonder how feasible that would be.
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