Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
Yeah, 4v4 isn't very fun outside of goofing around. Maybe it'll be a different story if I have a group of 3 who plays and communicates with me. But for the most part it's just a gankfest.
I which they went hard moba and add in towers and bigger mobs.
I was watching a guy stream, think his name is tru talent? He streams a lot of SFV.
In almost every single one of his matches he was teching like, 80% of guard break attempts. I honestly think there's enough time to react to them if you're looking for them, it's just that in the heat of battle it's easy to forget to block in the right direction AND keep an eye out for guard breaks.
To be honest, my biggest concern currently with the game, and unfortunately I didn't get to spend enough time with the beta to come away with anything conclusive, is that I am afraid that defense might be far too powerful relative to offense. The game might lead to a Soul Calibur 2 style situation where attacking is always the wrong decision because defense is so strong.
My problem with figuring out if this gut feeling is accurate or not is that I didn't run into people strong enough to test my theory. But, an extreme example is the Warlord with his block in every direction move with free follow up. Against most people, I could essentially do that for an entire duel, only really having to watch out for unblockables (dodge those) and throws (counter those). Every attack, even lights, in this game telegraph so much that even with my shoddy reflexes and bad timing it was very hard to ever get damage on me.
Similarly, as the Orochi there is an incredibly generous timing window for dodging into attacks that gives you a free damage follow up that is guaranteed. Even after playing Orochi against a bot for about 10 minutes, most people couldn't put damage on my Orochi.
I don't know if Feints are fast enough to be a strong answer to this, and how late into an animation you can Feint? But, unless that opens things up I'm afraid that defense trumps offense pretty much every time in my experience.
I was watching a guy stream, think his name is tru talent? He streams a lot of SFV.
In almost every single one of his matches he was teching like, 80% of guard break attempts. I honestly think there's enough time to react to them if you're looking for them, it's just that in the heat of battle it's easy to forget to block in the right direction AND keep an eye out for guard breaks.
See this is specifically the kind of thing that worries me. 80% tech rate when the game is out for three days. Give that guy a week, two weeks? That's going to be nearly 100%. And the timing on teching throws is far tighter than the timing on blocking so... how do you open someone up ever?
I do think cliff throws should be a bit more difficult and have a bit if a counter. Maybe require two quick events or have a strong/light throw with the strong being easier to counter? Not sure. I don't think it's necessarily terrible as is but I also keep people basically out of throw range as a Nobushi as much as possible
I do think cliff throws should be a bit more difficult and have a bit if a counter. Maybe require two quick events or have a strong/light throw with the strong being easier to counter? Not sure. I don't think it's necessarily terrible as is but I also keep people basically out of throw range as a Nobushi as much as possible
Eh, throwing people off punishes bad positioning and spacing. Seems fine so far. There are enough ways to avoid getting grabbed that if you do you either messed up or got outplayed.
I do think cliff throws should be a bit more difficult and have a bit if a counter. Maybe require two quick events or have a strong/light throw with the strong being easier to counter? Not sure. I don't think it's necessarily terrible as is but I also keep people basically out of throw range as a Nobushi as much as possible
Maybe just make the amount you move them a little less, it's a fairly generous movement right now
Make it so you have to force the enemy close to the ledge first, so that it's a reward for winning positioning as well as just getting a grab off
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Oh, and this is an easy tweak but they definitely need to re-assess stat scaling in Dominion.
We ran into a couple high item level players that had clearly stacked + revenge on block and they could easily pop revenge three to four times over the course of a fight. Which is silly.
To be honest, my biggest concern currently with the game, and unfortunately I didn't get to spend enough time with the beta to come away with anything conclusive, is that I am afraid that defense might be far too powerful relative to offense. The game might lead to a Soul Calibur 2 style situation where attacking is always the wrong decision because defense is so strong.
My problem with figuring out if this gut feeling is accurate or not is that I didn't run into people strong enough to test my theory. But, an extreme example is the Warlord with his block in every direction move with free follow up. Against most people, I could essentially do that for an entire duel, only really having to watch out for unblockables (dodge those) and throws (counter those). Every attack, even lights, in this game telegraph so much that even with my shoddy reflexes and bad timing it was very hard to ever get damage on me.
Similarly, as the Orochi there is an incredibly generous timing window for dodging into attacks that gives you a free damage follow up that is guaranteed. Even after playing Orochi against a bot for about 10 minutes, most people couldn't put damage on my Orochi.
I don't know if Feints are fast enough to be a strong answer to this, and how late into an animation you can Feint? But, unless that opens things up I'm afraid that defense trumps offense pretty much every time in my experience.
I was watching a guy stream, think his name is tru talent? He streams a lot of SFV.
In almost every single one of his matches he was teching like, 80% of guard break attempts. I honestly think there's enough time to react to them if you're looking for them, it's just that in the heat of battle it's easy to forget to block in the right direction AND keep an eye out for guard breaks.
See this is specifically the kind of thing that worries me. 80% tech rate when the game is out for three days. Give that guy a week, two weeks? That's going to be nearly 100%. And the timing on teching throws is far tighter than the timing on blocking so... how do you open someone up ever?
I think there is a feint ability specifically to offset the whole "predictable offense"? I don't think a lot of people are using it, but Fairlight Excalibur, who was streaming from PAX, talked about how feints open up the movesets so that if someone is really adept at blocking or parrying you, you cancel attacks with feints and punish their now whiffed parry attempt or mispositioned block.
My observation is that this is also why some of the harder hitting attacks have a very distinct battle yell that accompanies them, which however doesn't get canceled if you feint the attack. I remember a duel vs a Nobushi who started out using a lot of the high bleed stabs, but then when she noticed the player starting to react to them, she started canceling the stab, still making the same yell, and changing her angle or type of attack completely.
Edit: Theoretically, because you have to commit to a block, parry or dodge, feints would indeed open up the interactions, especially as the dev seems to have intentionally made dangerous attacks give off a yell that is NOT canceled by the feint. You could be hearing "OSHIETE MAIRU" and prepare to block high or parry high, when nope it's a lower stab instead. Or a guard break. Heck a Peacekeeper was canceling heavies into guard breaks all day on one channel. Then when they started tying to pre-emptively tech the throw, she would just complete the heavy into the now whiffing guard break attempt from the other guy.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
You don't have to commit to a block at all though, blocking is just holding the right stick in a direction and changing block direction has essentially zero transfer time, as far as I could tell.
Personally I wasn't much using audio queues when the visual queues (huge flashing red arrows) were so blatant.
You don't have to commit to a block at all though, blocking is just holding the right stick in a direction and changing block direction has essentially zero transfer time, as far as I could tell.
Don't certain characters like the peacekeeper essentially not have an auto-block? Like they have really small block windows that are more akin to parries?
Still, even with no transfer time, you can condition an opponent to expect one thing and feint into another, which I think has value in regards to opening up the combat system.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
You don't have to commit to a block at all though, blocking is just holding the right stick in a direction and changing block direction has essentially zero transfer time, as far as I could tell.
Don't certain characters like the peacekeeper essentially not have an auto-block? Like they have really small block windows that are more akin to parries?
Still, even with no transfer time, you can condition an opponent to expect one thing and feint into another, which I think has value in regards to opening up the combat system.
That's only the assassins, and that is still not committing to a block. Basically, if you hold block in a direction you only block attacks from that direction for like, a second. But there is no animation, there is no cooldown time, there is nothing you are committing to. Heck, if anything feinting does the assassin a favor because when they swap directions to address the feint their block time will be refreshed.
To be honest I'm not personally sure how the "can only hold a block direction for a second" mechanic is actually supposed to impact the assassins because there is really nothing keeping you from just going "left, up, left, up, left up" over and over if you wanted to maintain a left block. And since you are an assassin you can always just use your generous timing window to dodge directly into an attack to block it, even if you are holding the wrong block direction on the right stick.
Inquisitor on
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
To people not having a lot of fun or quite "grasping" it right away, this would be one the few instances where I'd say to at least stick with it a while. Like I've mentioned, when i got War of the Roses I HATED it, but I got so great at reading strikes and parrying perfectly that I could generally take down three other players at once. It's a great feeling that keeps giving once you get better.
This game seems like, for the multiplayer, a tactical dueling game with MOBA components underneath. That's a cool idea especially given how saturated the market has been with copy after copy. I hope they flesh out campaign more than I think they will, but it doesn't seem priory.
Are you the magic man?
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
It's kind of too early to see how the meta of this game is going to end up. As of know I think we're going to see a lot of law bringers, simply because once they land that bleed effect they only have to whittle down with a few light attacks to bring you down. I don't have a problem with attacks being too easy to block, because the TTK in this game is really low. I never made it into the big boys league, but the way I was playing I never had a problem with people being able to block all of my attacks.
How do you feint, and how do you counter guard breaks? The game doesn't tell you how to do stuff like this, as far as I can tell. Figured out parrying only because someone said how to do it here.
Is time a gift or punishment?
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
During a heavy attack you hit the O button and it cancels out of the attack.
I just realized the game is out in only two weeks. Hmm.
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
Februrary has a decent lineup depend in your tastes: Nioh, For Honor, Fire Emblem Mobile (could be good or bad), Halo Wars 2 (same here, but I love RTS), Horizon Zero Dawn which I still know nothing about, and the follow-up to the classic Plancescape: Torment.
I'm a bit worried that there's still some balancing to be done IMO, and that a lot of people are having network issues, and we're only two weeks away.
If they come out and tell us it's an older build, then I'll be a bit more calm. Thankfully the game is on Steam for me, so I get regional pricing ($800 MXN instead of $1400) and I can stomach that better.
+1
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
P2P when it works, it's great (Overall less latency than a dedicated server) but good luck assuming everyone's got a good connection.
I have over 70 hours in BF1 and have only been dropped once from a game due to connection issues. In this game, the times I was simply booted out of a game, or lost an encounter because of someone dropping and making the whole game re-synch for everyone, is more than I can remember now, with just two weekends of play time.
I think for a game with this few players P2P can be totally fine, always would want dedicated servers to be an option but I understand it from a logistics standpoint.
Playing a decent amount on ps4, I never had a problem getting into games, but I did experience the game pausing and re-synching for everyone a handful of times. Not enough to piss me off or anything.
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
edited January 2017
Nioh is a must for me, the weekend trial was amazing. Dark Souls Onimusha. Also Torment because, well, the original Torment was the first PC game I ever played and what got me into RPGs.
As far as For Honor goes, I'd be on the fence but my buddy is working on the game so I preordered it anyway. If I don't like it in the long term I can just give it away, no big deal. I'm worried about a "The Order" situation where the game has a lot of great presentation and actual fighting mechanics, but little else on the bones other than that. As of this latest beta, though, I don't think that's the case. Also, I liked The Order. 8-)
If you are in a 2v1, figure out which opponent is the biggest threat to you and target the other one. Nobushi becomes infinitely easier to block when the direction of her attack is always the direction she is relative to you.
If you are in a 2v1, figure out which opponent is the biggest threat to you and target the other one. Nobushi becomes infinitely easier to block when the direction of her attack is always the direction she is relative to you.
This. A thousand times this.
Also remember Zone attacks. I got a few double kills off of Zone attacks after blocking everything
Posts
I which they went hard moba and add in towers and bigger mobs.
In almost every single one of his matches he was teching like, 80% of guard break attempts. I honestly think there's enough time to react to them if you're looking for them, it's just that in the heat of battle it's easy to forget to block in the right direction AND keep an eye out for guard breaks.
My problem with figuring out if this gut feeling is accurate or not is that I didn't run into people strong enough to test my theory. But, an extreme example is the Warlord with his block in every direction move with free follow up. Against most people, I could essentially do that for an entire duel, only really having to watch out for unblockables (dodge those) and throws (counter those). Every attack, even lights, in this game telegraph so much that even with my shoddy reflexes and bad timing it was very hard to ever get damage on me.
Similarly, as the Orochi there is an incredibly generous timing window for dodging into attacks that gives you a free damage follow up that is guaranteed. Even after playing Orochi against a bot for about 10 minutes, most people couldn't put damage on my Orochi.
I don't know if Feints are fast enough to be a strong answer to this, and how late into an animation you can Feint? But, unless that opens things up I'm afraid that defense trumps offense pretty much every time in my experience.
See this is specifically the kind of thing that worries me. 80% tech rate when the game is out for three days. Give that guy a week, two weeks? That's going to be nearly 100%. And the timing on teching throws is far tighter than the timing on blocking so... how do you open someone up ever?
Eh, throwing people off punishes bad positioning and spacing. Seems fine so far. There are enough ways to avoid getting grabbed that if you do you either messed up or got outplayed.
*shrug*
Maybe just make the amount you move them a little less, it's a fairly generous movement right now
Make it so you have to force the enemy close to the ledge first, so that it's a reward for winning positioning as well as just getting a grab off
We ran into a couple high item level players that had clearly stacked + revenge on block and they could easily pop revenge three to four times over the course of a fight. Which is silly.
I think there is a feint ability specifically to offset the whole "predictable offense"? I don't think a lot of people are using it, but Fairlight Excalibur, who was streaming from PAX, talked about how feints open up the movesets so that if someone is really adept at blocking or parrying you, you cancel attacks with feints and punish their now whiffed parry attempt or mispositioned block.
My observation is that this is also why some of the harder hitting attacks have a very distinct battle yell that accompanies them, which however doesn't get canceled if you feint the attack. I remember a duel vs a Nobushi who started out using a lot of the high bleed stabs, but then when she noticed the player starting to react to them, she started canceling the stab, still making the same yell, and changing her angle or type of attack completely.
Edit: Theoretically, because you have to commit to a block, parry or dodge, feints would indeed open up the interactions, especially as the dev seems to have intentionally made dangerous attacks give off a yell that is NOT canceled by the feint. You could be hearing "OSHIETE MAIRU" and prepare to block high or parry high, when nope it's a lower stab instead. Or a guard break. Heck a Peacekeeper was canceling heavies into guard breaks all day on one channel. Then when they started tying to pre-emptively tech the throw, she would just complete the heavy into the now whiffing guard break attempt from the other guy.
Personally I wasn't much using audio queues when the visual queues (huge flashing red arrows) were so blatant.
Don't certain characters like the peacekeeper essentially not have an auto-block? Like they have really small block windows that are more akin to parries?
Still, even with no transfer time, you can condition an opponent to expect one thing and feint into another, which I think has value in regards to opening up the combat system.
That's only the assassins, and that is still not committing to a block. Basically, if you hold block in a direction you only block attacks from that direction for like, a second. But there is no animation, there is no cooldown time, there is nothing you are committing to. Heck, if anything feinting does the assassin a favor because when they swap directions to address the feint their block time will be refreshed.
To be honest I'm not personally sure how the "can only hold a block direction for a second" mechanic is actually supposed to impact the assassins because there is really nothing keeping you from just going "left, up, left, up, left up" over and over if you wanted to maintain a left block. And since you are an assassin you can always just use your generous timing window to dodge directly into an attack to block it, even if you are holding the wrong block direction on the right stick.
This game seems like, for the multiplayer, a tactical dueling game with MOBA components underneath. That's a cool idea especially given how saturated the market has been with copy after copy. I hope they flesh out campaign more than I think they will, but it doesn't seem priory.
Guardbreaking is the x button.
All of this is buried in the advance tutorial.
Guard break is square
X is dash
It's real fun and all but, I dunno how much meat is on its bones.
If they come out and tell us it's an older build, then I'll be a bit more calm. Thankfully the game is on Steam for me, so I get regional pricing ($800 MXN instead of $1400) and I can stomach that better.
You're falling for my mind games
What's going to kill this gave on PC is the p2p connection. As fun as this game is, in going to wait and see how it fairs.
I have over 70 hours in BF1 and have only been dropped once from a game due to connection issues. In this game, the times I was simply booted out of a game, or lost an encounter because of someone dropping and making the whole game re-synch for everyone, is more than I can remember now, with just two weekends of play time.
As far as For Honor goes, I'd be on the fence but my buddy is working on the game so I preordered it anyway. If I don't like it in the long term I can just give it away, no big deal. I'm worried about a "The Order" situation where the game has a lot of great presentation and actual fighting mechanics, but little else on the bones other than that. As of this latest beta, though, I don't think that's the case. Also, I liked The Order. 8-)
https://clips.twitch.tv/furiousjodo/ToughSquidShazBotstix
This. A thousand times this.
Also remember Zone attacks. I got a few double kills off of Zone attacks after blocking everything
If anyone has a beta code for the PC I would be most grateful!
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
PSN- AHermano