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Its a great big [Steven Universe] out there!

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Posts

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular

    How hard was it in highschool or at a camp or someplace where, "hey, I can totally reinvent myself, here/this year." And you have that nagging feeling or you just couldn't hold onto it and you defaulted to how you normally act?

    I think that's a good representation of what happens when a gem reforms.

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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    One thing about the latest episode I'm curious about.
    There has been no real indication over the nature of Amethyst's "brokenness". The obvious question then is, can it be overcome? Is it possible that we'll see Amethyst change to a larger form, whether permantently or just for when she really needs it? When it was revealed that she regains her shape much faster than the other gems I think it was suggested that this was simply due to her messy, impulsive nature, but it seems logical that the fact that she was built to support a much larger physical form is another factor.

    I'm not sure how I would feel about a Jasper-sized Amethyst, but if she keeps growing more mature as the series goes on I could see it possibly working.

    I don't think it's something she can overcome.
    Peridot is pretty clear its a defect in her creation process not something she can change.
    The way she explained it, that Amethyst was so small because she didn't know she wasn't supposed to be that way, made it seem like something that she could overcome if she decided to do so.

    But that may just be my interpretation.

    I could see Amethyst going Jasper sized for an ep or two, then deciding it didn't feel right for her and going back to her normal size.

    Nah,
    she flat out said that she was in her hole for about 500 years more then she should have been and that the hole was too low to the ground. Notice all the other holes were pretty high up in a cliff of rock, while amethysts was touching dirt. From what we know of the injection process, it sounds like she was as jasper put it, a runt...improperly placed in the cliff face and she didnt drain as much nutrition from the rock as the other soldiers, hence she isnt born until after the war, and is smaller as a result. Peri said that she can do everything a normal solider can do so i dont think shes weaker, just smaller.

    Amethyst probably has issues that don't have to do with her size...she was born alone, probably lived alone for quite a while before she was found by the gems, and realized after a time that she was suppose to basically be a monster, so she dislikes herself for what she is and can't help it. she may even be in conflict with the gems mission vs homeworld. Could a homeworld gem theoretically control her? Peri also mentioned that they were very loyal soliders. that could also mean they did not have a real choice but to be loyal..(mental control somehow).

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    They haven't really given an explanation in-show for why some fusions have multiple sets of arms, yet some only have a single set. Initially I thought it was a bit of a plot hole, but while watching Keeping it Together and We Need to Talk I realized there is a pattern behind it.
    The fusions who have only two arms are: Garnet, Rainbow Quartz and Stevonnie. I posit that those with particularly strong bonds to each other only make two arms. Like Garnet says during Keeping it Together, "You know when you fuse, you don't feel like two people, you feel like one being. And your old names might as well be names for your left arm and your right." I'm wondering in fact if if it's exclusively romantic connections that do that, except that if Rose and Pearl were romantically involved, why didn't she make more of an effort to make Pearl feel comfortable and secure in a poly relationship when she dated humans?

    Cambiata on
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  • Moth 13Moth 13 Volcaregular Registered User regular
    The real answer is that the showrunners just go with what looks cooler.

    NotoriusBENBucketman
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    They haven't really given an explanation in-show for why some fusions have multiple sets of arms, yet some only have a single set. Initially I thought it was a bit of a plot hole, but while watching Keeping it Together and We Need to Talk I realized there is a pattern behind it.
    The fusions who have only two arms are: Garnet, Rainbow Quartz and Stevonnie. I posit that those with particularly strong bonds to each other only make two arms. Like Garnet says during Keeping it Together, "You know when you fuse, you don't feel like two people, you feel like one being. And your old names might as well be names for your left arm and your right." I'm wondering in fact if if it's exclusively romantic connections that do that, except that if Rose and Pearl were romantically involved, why didn't she make more of an effort to make Pearl feel comfortable and secure in a poly relationship when she dated humans?
    To Rose it wasn't real, she was just having fun. The same way it was just a fling with Greg until he called her on it.

    hobbessig.png
    TankHammer
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    They haven't really given an explanation in-show for why some fusions have multiple sets of arms, yet some only have a single set. Initially I thought it was a bit of a plot hole, but while watching Keeping it Together and We Need to Talk I realized there is a pattern behind it.
    The fusions who have only two arms are: Garnet, Rainbow Quartz and Stevonnie. I posit that those with particularly strong bonds to each other only make two arms. Like Garnet says during Keeping it Together, "You know when you fuse, you don't feel like two people, you feel like one being. And your old names might as well be names for your left arm and your right." I'm wondering in fact if if it's exclusively romantic connections that do that, except that if Rose and Pearl were romantically involved, why didn't she make more of an effort to make Pearl feel comfortable and secure in a poly relationship when she dated humans?
    To Rose it wasn't real, she was just having fun. The same way it was just a fling with Greg until he called her on it.

    Huh. That's an interesting perspective.

  • BelruelBelruel Life and death and love and birth and peace and war on the planet earthRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    They haven't really given an explanation in-show for why some fusions have multiple sets of arms, yet some only have a single set. Initially I thought it was a bit of a plot hole, but while watching Keeping it Together and We Need to Talk I realized there is a pattern behind it.
    The fusions who have only two arms are: Garnet, Rainbow Quartz and Stevonnie. I posit that those with particularly strong bonds to each other only make two arms. Like Garnet says during Keeping it Together, "You know when you fuse, you don't feel like two people, you feel like one being. And your old names might as well be names for your left arm and your right." I'm wondering in fact if if it's exclusively romantic connections that do that, except that if Rose and Pearl were romantically involved, why didn't she make more of an effort to make Pearl feel comfortable and secure in a poly relationship when she dated humans?
    To Rose it wasn't real, she was just having fun. The same way it was just a fling with Greg until he called her on it.

    Huh. That's an interesting perspective.

    I have a lot of overly verbose opinions on cartoons at 4am
    Rose gets idealized a lot by the gems, but in her ending song she even says that she can never live up to what her friends' vision of her is, and that she has struggled with learning how to 'love' the way that we see love.

    If I could begin to be,
    Half of what you think of me,
    I could do about anything,
    I could even learn how to love.
    When I see the way you act,
    Wondering when I'm coming back,
    I could do about anything,
    I could even learn how to love like you.


    She expresses that they all see her as this big perfect being that is strong and capable and knows what needs to be done and everything else, but in the ending credits we hear about her insecurities. Her doubts about herself, her hopes for the future. We see her stumbling with handling delicate things like Pearl and Greg's emotional needs and expectations of her, and my opinion is that she admired the beauty and hidden subtle strength in so many things and others because it was something she felt that she wasn't the best at displaying herself. The act of creating Steven was likely her way of emulating the living things and the beauty that she admired so highly, she wanted to not just tend and protect the greenhouse, but to 'bloom' herself.

    I think Rose was self-serving to some degree. I don't mean in a 'bring me whores and wine and to hell with anyone else!' way, but in that she saw people and things she enjoyed, and happily stuck her hands right in there to experience things to the fullest of her ability. She could see what she wanted, and she had the confidence to reach for it and achieve it, both in waging a war and also after. People like that are often admired, and also step on those admirers, sometimes without even realizing it. Especially the ones that love them the most and would do the most for them. Think about Pearl fervently protecting Rose over and over, more than willing to die for Rose. When Steven was faced with a similar offer of selfless loyalty, it really upset him and he refused to let Connie dismiss her own importance that way. (To be fair, Steven isn't leading a war for the survival of a planet though.) She was a general and moved the pieces, and I don't think she ever fully put that aside.

    It's not a direct comparison of course, but I see her character arc as being a bit similar to Dumbledore's arc and personality traits in some ways. A leader admired and nearly deified to more than they are, and far more than they even see themselves. Their flaws smooth out and are overshadowed by their leadership and ability.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    One thing about the latest episode I'm curious about.
    There has been no real indication over the nature of Amethyst's "brokenness". The obvious question then is, can it be overcome? Is it possible that we'll see Amethyst change to a larger form, whether permantently or just for when she really needs it? When it was revealed that she regains her shape much faster than the other gems I think it was suggested that this was simply due to her messy, impulsive nature, but it seems logical that the fact that she was built to support a much larger physical form is another factor.

    I'm not sure how I would feel about a Jasper-sized Amethyst, but if she keeps growing more mature as the series goes on I could see it possibly working.

    I don't think it's something she can overcome.
    Peridot is pretty clear its a defect in her creation process not something she can change.
    The way she explained it, that Amethyst was so small because she didn't know she wasn't supposed to be that way, made it seem like something that she could overcome if she decided to do so.

    But that may just be my interpretation.

    I could see Amethyst going Jasper sized for an ep or two, then deciding it didn't feel right for her and going back to her normal size.

    Nah,
    she flat out said that she was in her hole for about 500 years more then she should have been and that the hole was too low to the ground. Notice all the other holes were pretty high up in a cliff of rock, while amethysts was touching dirt. From what we know of the injection process, it sounds like she was as jasper put it, a runt...improperly placed in the cliff face and she didnt drain as much nutrition from the rock as the other soldiers, hence she isnt born until after the war, and is smaller as a result. Peri said that she can do everything a normal solider can do so i dont think shes weaker, just smaller.

    Amethyst probably has issues that don't have to do with her size...she was born alone, probably lived alone for quite a while before she was found by the gems, and realized after a time that she was suppose to basically be a monster, so she dislikes herself for what she is and can't help it. she may even be in conflict with the gems mission vs homeworld. Could a homeworld gem theoretically control her? Peri also mentioned that they were very loyal soliders. that could also mean they did not have a real choice but to be loyal..(mental control somehow).

    Amethysts hole:
    So yea, the "too low to the ground" bit makes zero sense. They're implanting them so they're surrounded on all sides by earth and somehow that Amethyst has got extra earth around her on one side makes a difference?

    It's fridge logic about a cartoon so whatever but those reasons are just easy visual ones that can be understood by kids that really don't make any kind of sense.

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    If I had to guess how Kindergarten works-
    It's basically a strip mine. The Gems at the top are "older" and as they get closer to the bottom they're younger. Being close to the ground in this case means the process stopped to early.

    Amethyst was probably "formed" right before the Crystal gems shut the place down but because she didn't get the same amount of fuel as the rest of the gems she incubated longer to try and compensate.

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  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Are the crystal gems gendered?

    It seems like every one we've met so far has had feminine features, but have there been any references to actual sexes or genders on homeworld?

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I would have thought Garnet as Jupiter and Amethyst as Mars, also Pearl as Mercury and maybe Peridot as the cat
    Brolo wrote: »
    Are the crystal gems gendered?

    It seems like every one we've met so far has had feminine features, but have there been any references to actual sexes or genders on homeworld?

    All gems are women, based on what we know

    dN0T6ur.png
  • Ms DapperMs Dapper Cheers Luv! King's RowRegistered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    Are the crystal gems gendered?

    It seems like every one we've met so far has had feminine features, but have there been any references to actual sexes or genders on homeworld?

    I believe Rebecca Sugar has said that the gems don't have a set gender but prefer female pronouns.

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  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    yeah all gems are technically ungendered but effectively female.

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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    They are agender female-presenting space rocks.

    wandering
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I thought they were gendered, since they present specifically as women (and may not have always done so) but lack sex

    dN0T6ur.png
    Gvzbgul
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    I consider them women.

    Part of the problem is that I don't think that they identify as anything but gems, so it's a little difficult to say exactly what they are in human terms.
    Wyborn wrote: »
    I thought they were gendered, since they present specifically as women (and may not have always done so) but lack sex
    I'd say they always have. Because even the Homeworld Gems do the same, so they can't be doing it because of humans.

    Gvzbgul on
  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    I think it's basically they don't have a sex but are all gendered female

    SYhhzZG.jpg?2?8605
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Their gender is gem, they aren't human.

    hobbessig.png
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    I thought they were gendered, since they present specifically as women (and may not have always done so) but lack sex
    I mean, if you want to get really technical about it, Homeworld isn't a gendered society, gems don't have a conception of masculinity of femininity, and the fact that they generally resemble human women and use English female pronouns is a random alien coincidence.

    They identify as women in the context of Earth culture because it's easy and it's already their preferred pronoun. Even then it would be more accurate to say that humans (including us, the viewers of the show) identify them as women and they don't have any reason to challenge it. Aside from having acknowledged that male pronouns exist, I don't think the gems see male and female humans as being essentially different in any meaningful way. Especially since humans were almost certainly treated as "it"s for the overwhelming majority of the Crystal Gems' history. How much time and energy do you invest in seriously comparing and contrasting your gender identity to your dog's?

    But the whole discussion doesn't actually matter at all. From a writing perspective, gem culture is a deliberate challenge of heteronormativity, and going out of your way to undermine that with a bunch of "well actually"s is never going to improve one's understanding of the show. You aren't really supposed to think about it that much, in the same way you aren't supposed to think about the fact that an ancient alien race that predates humanity happens to speak perfect English. We're intended to see the gems through a human lens; that's the whole reason the show stars Steven and not Rose.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    I mean, if there's any analogue for gem genders, it's probably their gems. Instead of male/female, it's Pearl, Peridot, Rose Quartz, Ruby, etc. Homeworld roles for gems seem pretty strict, but in the case of Pearl for instance, decided to actively reject her roles, found a lifestyle she admired and identified with, and went her own way. Which is a cool message in itself.

    Javen on
    Cambiata
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    I kinda doubt that gems naturally have a concept of gender until they arrived on Earth. Humans probably identified them as feminine since that's how they appear to through a human lens and they just didn't bother to correct them. Now, whether or not over the thousands of years on Earth the Crystal Gems have spent on Earth they really internalized the human concept of gender... I dunno? I'm guessing... probably no?

  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    you guys say the homeworld isn't gendered, but that's just because we haven't seen the Crystal Jims yet

    l3icwZV.png
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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Their true form is gem
    Their sex is variable (Rose, Purple Puma)
    Their gender is female

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    Geth
  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    Their gender is gem, they aren't human.

    They present as female and call themselves female

    I really dislike this because its too close to the logic people use to try and pretend no gay relationships exist on the show

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    Their gender is gem, they aren't human.

    They present as female and call themselves female

    I really dislike this because its too close to the logic people use to try and pretend no gay relationships exist on the show

    They also admit they have no idea how human relationships work.

    Yes, through a human lens they are gay relationships.
    Through an alien lens, it is two gems in a relationship. There is no distinction because there is no other type.

    You can take whatever offense you want to it, it doesn't make it incorrect.

    hobbessig.png
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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Nor does that make it truly correct, since you also gotta take into account the (human) writers and what message they were aiming for.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    EvilCake
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    I mean, if there's any analogue for gem genders, it's probably their gems. Instead of male/female, it's Pearl, Peridot, Rose Quartz, Ruby, etc. Homeworld roles for gems seem pretty strict, but in the case of Pearl for instance, decided to actively reject her roles, found a lifestyle she admired and identified with, and went her own way. Which is a cool message in itself.

    If Peridots commentary of Pearls and how they were "supposed" to be wasn't a commentary on gender politics I'll eat a gem.

    It would be kind of interesting if a gem showed up at some point and decided they'd rather be called "him". Not to have another male character on the show but to hammer in the idea that gender is a social construct that you have control of.

    Quire.jpg
    JavenGvzbgul
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    I thought the pearls thing was a classism or racism thing, but I could be wrong.

    Enlong on
    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
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  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    I thought the pearls thing was a classism or racism thing, but I could be wrong.

    Yeah, I was getting a caste feel from it.

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  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    The gems as a euphemism is like the xmen, you can repurpose it to be whatever oppressed group you want

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    The Geek wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    I thought the pearls thing was a classism or racism thing, but I could be wrong.

    Yeah, I was getting a caste feel from it.
    Pearls are for looking pretty, and standing around.

    That reminds me a lot of certain sexist ideas. Also it's Pearl being told that because of what she was born as she can't possibly be technically inclined.

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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    Their gender is gem, they aren't human.

    They present as female and call themselves female

    I really dislike this because its too close to the logic people use to try and pretend no gay relationships exist on the show

    They also admit they have no idea how human relationships work.

    Yes, through a human lens they are gay relationships.
    Through an alien lens, it is two gems in a relationship. There is no distinction because there is no other type.

    You can take whatever offense you want to it, it doesn't make it incorrect.
    If you're going to talk about "correct" and "incorrect", authorial intent is that "though a human lens" is the way you're supposed to think about the gems. Gem relationships are intended to represent gay relationships and make the viewer think about gay relationships.

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Nor does that make it truly correct, since you also gotta take into account the (human) writers and what message they were aiming for.

    Actually, Rebecca has said the exact same thing;

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2e4gmx/i_am_rebecca_sugar_creator_of_steven_universe_and/cjw8e1p
    Steven is the first and only male Gem, because he is half human!

    Technically, there are no female Gems! There are only Gems!

    hobbessig.png
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  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    There is no correct interpretation. It can represent both.

    No I don't.
    Whippy
  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    There is no correct interpretation. It can represent both.

    I'm gonna say it represents various pork products.

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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    I mean, if you want to get really precise, I would say the authorial intent is:

    Statement: "Romance in gem culture isn't constrained by a concept of gender."
    Unspoken corollary: "Human relationships don't always have to be thusly constrained either."

    The whole point of the show is that it's about different cultures (or different individual viewpoints) seeing themselves reflected in each other and learning from each other. It's about learning to separate cultural presumption from fundamental truth. Human cultural thought tends to be constrained around specific rules about gender and sexuality, but things don't have to be that way. Gem cultural thought tends to be constrained about specific rules governing their caste system, but things don't have to be that way.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Turns out English is actually based on Gem language

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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Turns out English is actually based on Gem language
    It's true, English has a lot of roots as a Gemanic Language.

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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Whippy wrote: »
    The gems as a euphemism is like the xmen, you can repurpose it to be whatever oppressed group you want

    I realized recently that the original conception of the X-Men by Kirby and Lee maps really well to a metaphor for Jewish people in America, though I'm not sure how Magneto fits into that...

  • BertezBertezBertezBertez Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    Turns out English is actually based on Gem language
    It's true, English has a lot of roots as a Gemanic Language.

    I mean that could make sense in this world. Maybe when they came to earth they brought their language with them and now modern day humans just speak gem. We just hear english because translation convention.

    ...but I would say that

    steam_sig.png
This discussion has been closed.