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Its a great big [Steven Universe] out there!

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Posts

  • RuldarRuldar Registered User regular
    Well I mean we've already seen Amethyst take on a bigger form as Purple Puma, even though it was only temporary. I think it may be possible for her to take such a form "permanently" if she were to do it when reforming.

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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    The Geek wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    I thought the pearls thing was a classism or racism thing, but I could be wrong.

    Yeah, I was getting a caste feel from it.
    Pearls are for looking pretty, and standing around.

    That reminds me a lot of certain sexist ideas. Also it's Pearl being told that because of what she was born as she can't possibly be technically inclined.

    I felt it was more a servant 'slave' kinda class thing more then anything sexist. I mean until we actually see a gem portrayed as a male (Steven is a brand new thing), calling anything sexist about the culture is silly.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    The Geek wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    I thought the pearls thing was a classism or racism thing, but I could be wrong.

    Yeah, I was getting a caste feel from it.
    Pearls are for looking pretty, and standing around.

    That reminds me a lot of certain sexist ideas. Also it's Pearl being told that because of what she was born as she can't possibly be technically inclined.

    I felt it was more a servant 'slave' kinda class thing more then anything sexist. I mean until we actually see a gem portrayed as a male (Steven is a brand new thing), calling anything sexist about the culture is silly.

    He isn't saying the show is portraying it as sexist

    but the idea that an entire group of people only exist to be pleasing to the eye is very heavily tied to sexist ideas

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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    ehhhh...I could argue against that. If you are essentially breeding a race to do nothing but look pretty and reproduction or 'sex' is not really a 'thing' it's unlikely that you are breeding them to fuse which is the closest thing to sex this race seems to have from an intimacy perspective. You are degrading them to a toy, a doll, something to show off like a dog in a show.

    Granted from our perspective and history its tied to sexism of a sort, but to the gem race, It's much more a question of slavery. Pearl is obviously not a standard pearl, because Rose got her out of the mindset that she is more then someones servant. While Pearl obviously loved rose, and im not taking romantic love off the table, she loved her because of that, not because she was owned by pearl. She was given respect, something that probably goes against the very idea of a pearls purpose in life. Peridot seeing her as every other pearl at first shows that in the thousands of years since the war, pearls were never emancipated in any way which makes Pearl unique. Peridots acceptance of pearl shows her to be open minded about it but its probably more that the thought of a pearl doing so much beyond her purpose was such a shocking idea to her that she never even considered it before.

    The Gems are showing more and more that ,every time we see peridots reaction to the crystal gems behavior, that they were a cast society, perhaps less because they are set in ways, but more because it never occurred to them to be different. It's very believable thats what Rose saw in earthlings and caused her to see that what they were doing to themselves was wrong.

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    ehhhh...I could argue against that. If you are essentially breeding a race to do nothing but look pretty and reproduction or 'sex' is not really a 'thing' it's unlikely that you are breeding them to fuse which is the closest thing to sex this race seems to have from an intimacy perspective. You are degrading them to a toy, a doll, something to show off like a dog in a show.

    Granted from our perspective and history its tied to sexism of a sort, but to the gem race, It's much more a question of slavery. Pearl is obviously not a standard pearl, because Rose got her out of the mindset that she is more then someones servant. While Pearl obviously loved rose, and im not taking romantic love off the table, she loved her because of that, not because she was owned by pearl. She was given respect, something that probably goes against the very idea of a pearls purpose in life. Peridot seeing her as every other pearl at first shows that in the thousands of years since the war, pearls were never emancipated in any way which makes Pearl unique. Peridots acceptance of pearl shows her to be open minded about it but its probably more that the thought of a pearl doing so much beyond her purpose was such a shocking idea to her that she never even considered it before.

    The Gems are showing more and more that ,every time we see peridots reaction to the crystal gems behavior, that they were a cast society, perhaps less because they are set in ways, but more because it never occurred to them to be different. It's very believable thats what Rose saw in earthlings and caused her to see that what they were doing to themselves was wrong.

    I think you're confusing saying "this thing IS this" with "This thing is similar to this other thing and thus gives me similar feelings"

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    ehhhh...I could argue against that. If you are essentially breeding a race to do nothing but look pretty and reproduction or 'sex' is not really a 'thing' it's unlikely that you are breeding them to fuse which is the closest thing to sex this race seems to have from an intimacy perspective. You are degrading them to a toy, a doll, something to show off like a dog in a show.

    Granted from our perspective and history its tied to sexism of a sort, but to the gem race, It's much more a question of slavery. Pearl is obviously not a standard pearl, because Rose got her out of the mindset that she is more then someones servant. While Pearl obviously loved rose, and im not taking romantic love off the table, she loved her because of that, not because she was owned by pearl. She was given respect, something that probably goes against the very idea of a pearls purpose in life. Peridot seeing her as every other pearl at first shows that in the thousands of years since the war, pearls were never emancipated in any way which makes Pearl unique. Peridots acceptance of pearl shows her to be open minded about it but its probably more that the thought of a pearl doing so much beyond her purpose was such a shocking idea to her that she never even considered it before.

    The Gems are showing more and more that ,every time we see peridots reaction to the crystal gems behavior, that they were a cast society, perhaps less because they are set in ways, but more because it never occurred to them to be different. It's very believable thats what Rose saw in earthlings and caused her to see that what they were doing to themselves was wrong.

    I think you're confusing saying "this thing IS this" with "This thing is similar to this other thing and thus gives me similar feelings"

    Yeah I'm saying its allegorical.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Like the idea that someone isn't really a person but just a companion piece to the "real" person. That she is there to please that person.

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  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    ehhhh...I could argue against that. If you are essentially breeding a race to do nothing but look pretty and reproduction or 'sex' is not really a 'thing' it's unlikely that you are breeding them to fuse which is the closest thing to sex this race seems to have from an intimacy perspective. You are degrading them to a toy, a doll, something to show off like a dog in a show.

    Granted from our perspective and history its tied to sexism of a sort, but to the gem race, It's much more a question of slavery. Pearl is obviously not a standard pearl, because Rose got her out of the mindset that she is more then someones servant. While Pearl obviously loved rose, and im not taking romantic love off the table, she loved her because of that, not because she was owned by pearl. She was given respect, something that probably goes against the very idea of a pearls purpose in life. Peridot seeing her as every other pearl at first shows that in the thousands of years since the war, pearls were never emancipated in any way which makes Pearl unique. Peridots acceptance of pearl shows her to be open minded about it but its probably more that the thought of a pearl doing so much beyond her purpose was such a shocking idea to her that she never even considered it before.

    The Gems are showing more and more that ,every time we see peridots reaction to the crystal gems behavior, that they were a cast society, perhaps less because they are set in ways, but more because it never occurred to them to be different. It's very believable thats what Rose saw in earthlings and caused her to see that what they were doing to themselves was wrong.

    No one is talking in the context of they show. They're talking about what things represent to us. In Universe analysis of fiction is absolutely worthless when talking about this stuff.

    No I don't.
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    bah. It's bad enough im 41 and love these kinds of cartoons. Stop making me bring real life into my context... :)

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  • GoatmonGoatmon Property of Amara_P Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Morkath wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Nor does that make it truly correct, since you also gotta take into account the (human) writers and what message they were aiming for.

    Actually, Rebecca has said the exact same thing;

    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2e4gmx/i_am_rebecca_sugar_creator_of_steven_universe_and/cjw8e1p
    Steven is the first and only male Gem, because he is half human!

    Technically, there are no female Gems! There are only Gems!

    Technicality: a word which in this context means "A thing that lets me make a show have as many gay ladies as I want, hahahahah fuck you broadcast standards and practices."

    edit
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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    So, to the other people that have been hooked on this for awhile. How long after initial introduction to the show do you stop rewatching reruns on a daily basis and counting the days until the next steven bomb.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    So, to the other people that have been hooked on this for awhile. How long after initial introduction to the show do you stop rewatching reruns on a daily basis and counting the days until the next steven bomb.

    ...you can stop? Is that a thing?

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    I just watched too far, and it made me possibly realize something in terms of Rose and gender allegory.
    So a lot of people have this theory about Rose Quartz actually being Pink Diamond? I don't know the reason for that theory, but I've never bought into it, and now with Peridot's input I have a theory as to what, perhaps, Rose's main deal with the homeworld was.

    I think Rose is a trans allegory.

    I know, I know, a lot of people put Garnet in the trans category, but I think especially based on Peridot's reaction, that Garnet is absolutely a gay relationship allegory. Fusion is supposed to be for one specific purpose, fighting (sex is supposed to be for one specific purpose, having babies). For someone to use fusion just for pleasure, or just because they are in love with the other person, that's a perversion! (for someone to use sex just for pleasure, or... you get the picture)

    So how is Rose trans? If we consider Jasper the "typical" soldier, and it seems to be based on Peridot's description, they present as very masculine (in earth terms), while everything we've seen of Rose is very feminine. Frilly dress, curled hair, wearing lipstick, and her dance is stereotypically feminine as well. Maybe dresses are exclusively for classes like the pearls - for those that are supposed to look pretty, not for those who fight. For a soldier to fight in a dress was probably a shock to the homeworld.

    Edit: For that matter, based on Steven's personality, she probably didn't like to fight, either.

    Also, her being able to present as her real self would also explain why Rose has zero desire to go back to the homeworld... she can be completely herself on earth, she never could on the homeworld.

    That's my theory at the moment, anyway.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    I just watched too far, and it made me possibly realize something in terms of Rose and gender allegory.
    So a lot of people have this theory about Rose Quartz actually being Pink Diamond? I don't know the reason for that theory, but I've never bought into it, and now with Peridot's input I have a theory as to what, perhaps, Rose's main deal with the homeworld was.

    I think Rose is a trans allegory.

    I know, I know, a lot of people put Garnet in the trans category, but I think especially based on Peridot's reaction, that Garnet is absolutely a gay relationship allegory. Fusion is supposed to be for one specific purpose, fighting (sex is supposed to be for one specific purpose, having babies). For someone to use fusion just for pleasure, or just because they are in love with the other person, that's a perversion! (for someone to use sex just for pleasure, or... you get the picture)

    So how is Rose trans? If we consider Jasper the "typical" soldier, and it seems to be based on Peridot's description, they present as very masculine (in earth terms), while everything we've seen of Rose is very feminine. Frilly dress, curled hair, wearing lipstick, and her dance is stereotypically feminine as well. Maybe dresses are exclusively for classes like the pearls - for those that are supposed to look pretty, not for those who fight. For a soldier to fight in a dress was probably a shock to the homeworld.

    Edit: For that matter, based on Steven's personality, she probably didn't like to fight, either.

    Also, her being able to present as her real self would also explain why Rose has zero desire to go back to the homeworld... she can be completely herself on earth, she never could on the homeworld.

    That's my theory at the moment, anyway.



    A big part is that Stephen's Gem looks like a Diamond and not a Rose Quartz. Also if you look around the show you'll see symbols in Jaspers ship and other places with three diamonds(Yellow, White and Blue) but at the SKy Temple where Pearl teaches Connie a similar sybol appears that adds a forth. Pink.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    And yet Peridot pegged Steven's gem as a type of quartz at a glance.

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  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Gems dig giant robots.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    And yet Peridot pegged Steven's gem as a type of quartz at a glance.

    Yeah its weird. Because they are right. The Gem doesn't look like a Quartz.

    Was she look at him or his Gem in that scene I forget?

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    If Quartz are soldiers, then she definitely was looking at his gem.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    If Quartz are soldiers, then she definitely was looking at his gem.

    Maybe, but Gems seem to "see" or something more then humans do. The Homeworld Gems could just tell that Garnet was fusion for instance.

    Quire.jpg
  • MegaMekMegaMek Is a girl, actually. Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    If Quartz are soldiers, then she definitely was looking at his gem.

    Maybe, but Gems seem to "see" or something more then humans do. The Homeworld Gems could just tell that Garnet was fusion for instance.

    Maybe her body shape is totally different than any one gem? Then again, Garnet has mentioned being able to "sense" Steven before.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Enlong wrote: »
    And yet Peridot pegged Steven's gem as a type of quartz at a glance.

    Yeah its weird. Because they are right. The Gem doesn't look like a Quartz.

    Was she look at him or his Gem in that scene I forget?

    Eh, I think people are expecting all rose quartz to look like the "standard" rose quartz you see everywhere. But both pink diamonds and rose quartz can have different levels of redness and clarity.

    These are some varying examples of rose quartz:

    il_570xN.781255736_jern.jpg
    Miadora-Rose-Flashplated-Silver-Rose-Quartz-and-Diamond-Accent-Bow-Ring-with-Bonus-Earrings-1edf0a0b-abd8-458d-b77d-74cbcd2aa083_600.jpg
    rose_quartz_facet_ring.JPG

    Edit: the four diamonds thing is interesting, but lol at the video for not differentiating between a diamond shape and a triangle shape.

    Additional edit: Rose's size also marks her out as quartz and not diamond, again based on Peridot's descriptions. From what glimpse we've seen of yellow diamond, she is not on par with Jasper's size, but Rose definitely would be.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    That may be but the Diamonds do seem pretty damning.

    I think the idea that "Diamond" being a rank is probably correct.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    If Quartz are soldiers, then she definitely was looking at his gem.

    Maybe, but Gems seem to "see" or something more then humans do. The Homeworld Gems could just tell that Garnet was fusion for instance.

    They only need eyes to tell that. Having two gems is a dead giveaway.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    Enlong wrote: »
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    If Quartz are soldiers, then she definitely was looking at his gem.

    Maybe, but Gems seem to "see" or something more then humans do. The Homeworld Gems could just tell that Garnet was fusion for instance.

    They only need eyes to tell that. Having two gems is a dead giveaway.


    They didn't.

    (You could make the argument that Jasper is listing off info Peridot had already provided but it sure sounds to me like she is sizing up each Gem then and there)

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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    something else i found interesting about jaspers speech in the arrival. "I know what a human is". sure she was there for the war, so the idea of a human isnt new to her...but something about how she says it hints at a deeper truth.

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  • GoatmonGoatmon Property of Amara_P Registered User regular
    It's probably just a gem sense, like MegaMek said.

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  • RuldarRuldar Registered User regular
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    This is why I like the writing in this show

    Because Jasper of all people saying that she respected Roses' tactics during the war is extremely disconcerting

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  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    True. But I can forgive Rose for what she did in the war.

    It's war. And she was on the side with the smaller force. You do what needs to be done to win, because failure means death.

    Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean sending troops to their doom for insignificant gains. But you need to be willing to sacrifice in order to win.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    What the fuuuck
    Inazuma Kick!

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  • NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    I don't know, Jasper seems like she's big on the whole "honorable" warrior stuff. I don't think Jasper saying she respected Rose's tactics means Rose was up to heinous shit. Rose was a tough but fair general.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Eh, not really. when fighting garnet challenges jasper to fight her without any of her fancy tools, but she still pulls out the zapper.

    I agree that its way too early to suggest rose used dirty tactics...respect for an opponent doesnt mean they were completely ruthless, just that they countered her well.

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  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Yeah Rose might have just been a really good tactician.

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  • MegaMekMegaMek Is a girl, actually. Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    Yeah Rose might have just been a really good tactician.

    She did win. Everyone likes a winner.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Jasper is a klingon. She likes the punchy things that punch gooder. That's my Theory of Dissertations: Reloaded: Director's Cut.

    And Peridot was there when Jasper said that the steven was some kind of quartz.

    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Didn't Greg imply once he didn't like it when the gems shape shift? Given that Pearl has never been seen to do it, I assume maybe she once used it in a way hurtful to Greg and feels guilty about it since.

    That's the same episode where amethyst shape shifts into Rose, and there's an implication that something very weird and very uncomfortable happened in the past where amethyst did the same thing
    That was shapeshifting into people's "dead" wives to mess with them.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    something else i found interesting about jaspers speech in the arrival. "I know what a human is". sure she was there for the war, so the idea of a human isnt new to her...but something about how she says it hints at a deeper truth.
    Pretty sure she was just being rude to Peridot

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I don't think the comment is meant to condemn or indemnify Rose just based on that, but it's something I hope they expand on in the future. I just really like when they shatter the idealism that tends to center around Rose.

  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 Registered User regular
    I mean, I think in order for her to turn her back on homeworld she had to be complicit for a while in their atrocities to begin with, she wouldn't have always been a rebel

    so there's still probably a certain amount of cold pragmatism in the way she fought the war

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  • GoatmonGoatmon Property of Amara_P Registered User regular
    edited October 2015
    However you slice it, Rose had a laundry list of things she wasn't proud of.

    Things I don't think she ever forgive herself for, judging from what we saw at the end of We Need to Talk.

    I think that's a not-insignificant part of why she was willing to give up her life for Steven.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    We know that whatever ended the war happened fast enough that Rose was only able to save the gems close enough to be wrapped in her shield bubble. My suspicion is that whatever happened was a last-ditch doomsday response from Rose, and that's why she spent the rest of her life wrapped in guilt.

This discussion has been closed.