With the Gamecube, Nintendo more or less had hardware that was comparable to its competition on the market. Even with this, they sold less hardware and software than either. Because of this, Third-Party support tapered off during the second half of the console's lifespan.
With the Wii, Nintendo had weaker hardware, but was outselling its competition combined for a good while. Even with a huge userbase, most third parties ignored the Wii outright, instead deciding to port old games or release bullshit spin-off titles instead.
Now we've got the Wii U, with neither the respective hardware power of the Gamecube nor the sales of the Wii...why would any third-party publisher in their right mind bother with it?
With the Gamecube, Nintendo more or less had hardware that was comparable to its competition on the market. Even with this, they sold less hardware and software than either. Because of this, Third-Party support tapered off during the second half of the console's lifespan.
With the Wii, Nintendo had weaker hardware, but was outselling its competition combined for a good while. Even with a huge userbase, most third parties ignored the Wii outright, instead deciding to port old games or release bullshit spin-off titles instead.
Now we've got the Wii U, neither without the respective hardware power of the Gamecube nor the sales of the Wii...why would any third-party publisher in their right mind bother with it?
agreed 100%
which is why I said that Nintendo needs to meet third parties in the middle. Make thier architecture more like the other systems so it costs them less money to develop for. If it used to cost $texas to port a game to Nintendo systems, but now it costs $New Hampshire, maybe they'll get a bit more help from third parties.
It was posted that the cost outweighs the return on Nintendo systems, so Nintendo needs to try to mitigate that. The more games available on a system is the more that system sells.
I've always liked the "so and so doesn't make good games anyway" defense. It's so cute.
Ever since N64 Nintendo has been throwing up barriers, putting out systems that are substandard in some form or another - be it storage medium, power or online infrastructure. All of those issues can be rectified in a single generation but consumer confidence and publisher/developer relations cannot. Nintendo can get third parties back but it will take a lot of years with a lot of losses. They've dug themselves into such a deep hole I don't believe they'll ever make the effort though. They'll retreat into their shell and try to create a platform they can support on their own. Maybe they'll succeed but I have little doubt they'll be going it alone.
I've always liked the "so and so doesn't make good games anyway" defense. It's so cute.
Well, it's true. I mean, if I *were* going to play them I'd play them on my computer. And yet, I still don't give a single crap from years of getting boned by EA's anti-consumer bullshot. Bridges burned, no interest in going back.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
With the Gamecube, Nintendo more or less had hardware that was comparable to its competition on the market. Even with this, they sold less hardware and software than either. Because of this, Third-Party support tapered off during the second half of the console's lifespan.
With the Wii, Nintendo had weaker hardware, but was outselling its competition combined for a good while. Even with a huge userbase, most third parties ignored the Wii outright, instead deciding to port old games or release bullshit spin-off titles instead.
Now we've got the Wii U, neither without the respective hardware power of the Gamecube nor the sales of the Wii...why would any third-party publisher in their right mind bother with it?
agreed 100%
which is why I said that Nintendo needs to meet third parties in the middle. Make thier architecture more like the other systems so it costs them less money to develop for. If it used to cost $texas to port a game to Nintendo systems, but now it costs $New Hampshire, maybe they'll get a bit more help from third parties.
It was posted that the cost outweighs the return on Nintendo systems, so Nintendo needs to try to mitigate that. The more games available on a system is the more that system sells.
I feel like this is a sucker's bet at this point.
Historically, we've already seen third parties abandon both high-performance and high-selling Nintendo consoles. The last four consecutive home consoles--everything after the SNES--have ALL had middling or worse support. Even if Nintendo DOES "meet them in the middle" at their own expense, there are STILL even odds that they would find an excuse to not bother. Then Nintendo is left in a situation where they both have minimal third-party support AND hamstrung their internal development speed by forcing themselves to relearn all their own tools.
They might be better off doing the opposite: accept that EA, Activision, and Ubisoft probably aren't coming back and focus on coming up with a platform and a development paradigm which can be profitable off of primarily first-party and indie games.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens once the money batting bottoms out. Any business model that requires getting free money from other people isn't sustainable. I still remember how MS pretty much paid for Titanfall outright. The only thing EA did was stamp their logo on the boxes and prevent the game from releasing on Steam.
Nintendo's plan is probably to pursue the third parties who already continue to support them through their portable devices.
If Nintendo can convince them to make upscaled versions of their portable games for home consoles, then the NX will at least have some third party support, if still not a lot. Hence all the speculation about NX games being designed with scaling graphics and shared libraries in mind.
Even this is going to be a tough sell, and will probably require Nintendo to at least partially fund the enhancements themselves. But it's less risky than the seemingly futile strategy of trying to court western third parties again.
I've always liked the "so and so doesn't make good games anyway" defense. It's so cute.
Well, it's true. I mean, if I *were* going to play them I'd play them on my computer. And yet, I still don't give a single crap from years of getting boned by EA's anti-consumer bullshot. Bridges burned, no interest in going back.
Whether or not you like a company has nothing to do with game quality.
You don't like EA? Cool with me. But they do publish some good games, whether you play them or notg
I've always liked the "so and so doesn't make good games anyway" defense. It's so cute.
Well, it's true. I mean, if I *were* going to play them I'd play them on my computer. And yet, I still don't give a single crap from years of getting boned by EA's anti-consumer bullshot. Bridges burned, no interest in going back.
Whether or not you like a company has nothing to do with game quality.
You don't like EA? Cool with me. But they do publish some good games, whether you play them or notg
What if they don't like them because of their game quality? Checkmate, Atheists.
The Gamecube had proprietary media instead of going with what was standard at the time due to an intense paranoia regarding piracy. It's also important to remember that a console doesn't exist in a bubble of time: Nintendo lost a lot of third parties for the SAME paranoia when opting for carts on the N64. These third parties went to Sony, and the PS2 released before the Gamecube so that's where the consumers went. The Gamecube had third parties, but when a developer can only make a game for ONE console you are going with the established system that doesn't have a weird restriction on you. Also I believe developing for the cube was more difficult than the PS2.
The Wii had tons of third party support, but because third parties why the Wii U sold (Wii Sports and other part games), they released a ton of shovelware and hoped something would stick. You can't port your 360 or PS4 games to the Wii without a lot of work and basically watering down the experience. This is basically the Wii U except without the shovelware.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited September 2015
I don't think the disks were really an issue. It was a combination of two things IMO:
Yamauchi pissed off every 3rd party developer with draconian business practices that 100% favored Nintendo and shit on them. As soon as PSX presented itself as a viable alternative, they jumped ship en masse. In some cases it was out of spite, others the N64 cartridge format. Either way, PSX dominated N64. Thus, naturally, that carried over a generation.
So you still have the companies who were pissed at Nintendo, even though Iwata took over soon after and tried to mend bridges. You also had the companies that saw PSX's success and simply wanted to stay with the winning team.
Everything after that is just a shadow of the N64's failure. 3rd parties don't take the Nintendo console seriously because it hasn't been a serious contender since SNES. Wii could have been an exception but no one anticipated its success and projects could not easily shift to the weaker hardware. So they kept on trucking along as they had been doing since PSX.
Edit: I'll add I *think* the spite problems have gone away enough by now (as long as you don't work for EA or Epic) that Nintendo could win them back by basically releasing a stock powerhouse console, but Nintendo isn't particularly likely to do that since it failed the last two times they tried (granted for different reasons) and also it's somewhat against their philosophy.
Nintendo's decision to use carts also involved worries about Sony going after them for using CD tech. Also the PS2 was garbage to develop for due to its hardware limitations, the GC was far easier. Only with the PS4 has Sony's development environment become something usable.
Yeah, they preemptively returned a bunch of their dev kits, and you know what? They correctly predicted what would happen
They put a Madden game out, it didn't sell
They made the right call, they just didn't drag their feet in doing so. They notice market trends and could see the writing on the wall
But if there were actual money to be made on a Nintendo platform, there's no way they'd pass it up
They're in the business of making money, not childishly spiting people. Sony rejected their EA subscription program that they're currently running on the Xbox One. They have reason to spite Sony for this. But they don't, because there's money to be made there, and the bottom line is all that matters.
Everything is about sales. Even if the NX uses very similar development tools to the Xbox One and PS4 (and the chances of that are...small), it still costs time and money to port games over to the console. And Nintendo consoles don't get sales on AAA 3rd party games.
This is a direct quote from Ubisoft regarding AC:IV sales on Wii U
“It’s very simple. What we see is that Nintendo customers don’t buy Assassin’s Creed. Last year, we sold in very small numbers.”
Based on some googling AC:IV sold 11 million units total, and only 300,000 were on Wii U.
Ubisoft was a big parter for nintendo Wii U. But AC IV didn't sell on it, ZombiiU lost money, codblops2 was sold on Wii U and again some quick googling estimates sales in the 265k range for it on that platform.
So yea, 3rd party AAA games don't come to nintendo platforms because they don't sell on nintendo platforms.
But that's because they come late, low quality, and missing features. It's a chicken-egg problem which Nintendo could solve with $$ (get advertising exclusivity and timed-exclusive DLC for Assassin's Creed, say), but on Nintendo's part too, there's better ways to spend the money than solving the Nintendo third party cycle.
If they have a platform with 40 million units, they'll for sure get Call of Duty, Madden, and Fifa. The Wii versions of CoD tapped out around 1 million units, and they were going out of their way to make those.
Well, unless EA's bullshit grudge with Nintendo persists into the NX gen.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens once the money batting bottoms out. Any business model that requires getting free money from other people isn't sustainable. I still remember how MS pretty much paid for Titanfall outright. The only thing EA did was stamp their logo on the boxes and prevent the game from releasing on Steam.
Indeed. Especially since Microsoft could very well drop out next gen, given the new President's disdain for side-businesses and the X1's middling sales performance, and then third parties will be in trouble because Sony isn't gonna moneyhat by themselves. Suddenly Nintendo's in a strong position; they'll want to encourage Ninty to try and restart the old rivalry.
It's doing better than the 360 was at the same point in its lifespan
PS4 is just doing better, that's all
I think that's the whole issue. Microsoft's in this to *win*, or at least have dominant mindshare. Presently being about 2:1 with the PS4. If they're not dominant, it'll be hard for the division to convince Nadella and the board to not axe the thing (or likely roll it into a Games for Windows thing).
It's also important to remember that a console doesn't exist in a bubble of time
Exactly this. A lot of your Nintendo loyalists cling to this narrative that third parties just simply have something against Nintendo, and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to change that. So they always parrot the same two points: 1) GCN had hardware parity; 2) Wii had amazing sales. Then they ignore all the other factors at play that might contradict their original conclusion.
But at the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Can Nintendo win back third parties?" Because the answer is "yes." It would take a lot of time and money, but it can be done. The real question should be "Is that even worth doing?"
Not gonna lie, Nintendo Loyalists sounds a bit like accusing folks of Fanboyism to me. I don't think anyone here blindly thinks Nintendo's shit doesn't stink. I think we come to this thread to discuss the Wii U or maybe air some complaints or talk about games that can't sustain their own thread... But I think the Wii U doom or Nintendo is failing thing just gets old at this point and goes in circles.
The reason people might be quick to jump on criticism in here isn't that we're blind or ignoring Nintendo's faults it's because we've heard it all here or in the gaming media already and are a bit burned out on the topic.
I thought the goal of this mega thread surviving was more to give us a place to discuss the system because the user base was so low the threads on individual games tended to drop off the front page. Not that discussions can't be held but pages of beating a dead horse gets a bit old.
GCN had hardware parity, but the tools of software development during the GCN/XBOX/PS2 days are vastly different then the software development tools of today. For this reason I don't think you can look back at the GCN generation and make assumptions that history will repeat and that they shouldn't bother with hardware parity.
Wii U sucks, but my NNID is da66en. Steam is route66. 3DS is 2938-8099-8160.
Neo Geo Big Red owners club.
2009 PAX Puzzle Quest Champion
I have beat Rygar on the NES and many of you have not.
Not gonna lie, Nintendo Loyalists sounds a bit like accusing folks of Fanboyism to me.
Not gonna lie, that's exactly how I meant it.
Anyway, I'm not saying "Nintendo is doomed." I think they're just exploring a different path to success (compared to PS and XBox). Even though the WiiU had some missteps, I think they'll find the right niche.
One thing I find interesting is that the way AAA games have been involves throwing absurd amounts of money at projects with ever-swelling ceilings, to such a point that a company can sell millions of a game and still dub it a failure that hasn't turned a profit.
With the Wii, and presumably the Wii U, Nintendo tries to dial that back a bit, but few are interested.
As for putting games on the platforms, I remember Resident Evil 4 for Wii was considered the best version, and sold pretty well for a twice warmed over title that wasn't even that old. So what did Capcom follow up with? Rail shooter remakes of earlier games (with some original content in the sequel, at least).
Could they not have mapped the content of RE5 to RE4's engine, at least? Or done something original with it? They just left fans who wanted more of that RE4 Wii experience out to dry.
As for EA on Wii U, I'd still love to know why they gave it the short end of the stick with Mass Effect 3 when they were already doing the trilogy thing. How did that help anything at all?
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Fans have already been enjoying Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town on the North American Wii U Virtual Console, as well as the recently released Car Battler Joe! We’re also excited to announce that Pocky & Rocky with Becky will arrive in October on both the North American and European Wii U Virtual Console! Keep watching for news on more upcoming GBA titles, including the much-requested Medabots titles!
We’re looking forward to an exciting winter with more Harvest Moon news and perhaps even a surprise announcement… See everyone next month!
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
It's also important to remember that a console doesn't exist in a bubble of time
Exactly this. A lot of your Nintendo loyalists cling to this narrative that third parties just simply have something against Nintendo, and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to change that. So they always parrot the same two points: 1) GCN had hardware parity; 2) Wii had amazing sales. Then they ignore all the other factors at play that might contradict their original conclusion.
But at the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Can Nintendo win back third parties?" Because the answer is "yes." It would take a lot of time and money, but it can be done. The real question should be "Is that even worth doing?"
It's less that Nintendo can't change it and more that they don't care to change it. We're on the fourth straight generation with middling third party support. If Nintendo cared enough to change it, they would have made the strides to do so at this point.
But I think the Wii U doom or Nintendo is failing thing just gets old at this point and goes in circles.
The reason people might be quick to jump on criticism in here isn't that we're blind or ignoring Nintendo's faults it's because we've heard it all here or in the gaming media already and are a bit burned out on the topic.
I thought the goal of this mega thread surviving was more to give us a place to discuss the system because the user base was so low the threads on individual games tended to drop off the front page. Not that discussions can't be held but pages of beating a dead horse gets a bit old.
Ain't gonna lie...definitely missing the video game industry thread right now.
There are absolutely fanboys and fangirls in this thread, and speaking of which...maximumzero, did you just repress the memory of Nintendo's whole "WE HAVE SO MANY THIRD PARTIES" spiel at E3 back in 2012? They absolutely want third parties but keep making gambles that ultimately alienate them.
The reason why we've gone through four gens with weak third party support is 1) they have a whole other market which they've dominated for decades and DO have third party support, 2) The Wii was popular as hell (it had third party support...it was just shovelware) and Nintendo sold a ton of them (and the Wii was the last console they made a profit from, so $$$$$), and 3) they make money elsewhere like on foreign exchange rates for currencies
This generation has been a perfect storm of bad thanks to hurting on both fronts: the 3DS had a rocky start, and the Wii U is a pretty costly failure. Nintendo tried banking on hardware gimmicks over, well, the hardware. Hey, it's great that they'd still got that pioneering spirit for innovation, but sometimes you need to understand that part of experimentation is failure.
I thought the goal of this mega thread surviving was more to give us a place to discuss the system because the user base was so low the threads on individual games tended to drop off the front page. Not that discussions can't be held but pages of beating a dead horse gets a bit old.
If you are tired of a topic, then the best thing to do is to talk about something else. Nintendo just delayed a big title for the holiday season, leaving a big hole in their schedule. The subject of the Wii U's businesses prospects was pretty much inevitable.
It's also important to remember that a console doesn't exist in a bubble of time
Exactly this. A lot of your Nintendo loyalists cling to this narrative that third parties just simply have something against Nintendo, and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to change that. So they always parrot the same two points: 1) GCN had hardware parity; 2) Wii had amazing sales. Then they ignore all the other factors at play that might contradict their original conclusion.
But at the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Can Nintendo win back third parties?" Because the answer is "yes." It would take a lot of time and money, but it can be done. The real question should be "Is that even worth doing?"
It's less that Nintendo can't change it and more that they don't care to change it. We're on the fourth straight generation with middling third party support. If Nintendo cared enough to change it, they would have made the strides to do so at this point.
So no, it won't be happening.
I don't think they aren't trying. They know developers are reluctant to release games on Nintendo's consoles out of fear they won't sell, so they've been working with developers to bring games like Hyrule Warriors or Monster Hunter 4 with Nintendo DLC.
There are absolutely fanboys and fangirls in this thread, and speaking of which...maximumzero, did you just repress the memory of Nintendo's whole "WE HAVE SO MANY THIRD PARTIES" spiel at E3 back in 2012?
The "Look at all these great 3DS games like Saints Row and DJ Hero and more" from 2011 2010 was even worse.
It's also important to remember that a console doesn't exist in a bubble of time
Exactly this. A lot of your Nintendo loyalists cling to this narrative that third parties just simply have something against Nintendo, and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to change that. So they always parrot the same two points: 1) GCN had hardware parity; 2) Wii had amazing sales. Then they ignore all the other factors at play that might contradict their original conclusion.
But at the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Can Nintendo win back third parties?" Because the answer is "yes." It would take a lot of time and money, but it can be done. The real question should be "Is that even worth doing?"
It's less that Nintendo can't change it and more that they don't care to change it. We're on the fourth straight generation with middling third party support. If Nintendo cared enough to change it, they would have made the strides to do so at this point.
So no, it won't be happening.
I don't think they aren't trying. They know developers are reluctant to release games on Nintendo's consoles out of fear they won't sell, so they've been working with developers to bring games like Hyrule Warriors or Monster Hunter 4 with Nintendo DLC.
So I'm trying to figure out if I got a bum used Gamepad off of Amazon (it was an Amazon Warehouse deal).
It didn't turn on when I first opened up the box, so I hooked up the AC cable and set it to charge (it didn't come with the cradle). But it's been charging for at least an hour-and-a-half now; the LED has been solid yellow the whole time. It won't power on while it's charging at all; hitting the power button does nothing.
When I hold down the power button for a few seconds, the yellow LED turns off. When I press it again following this, the LED turns blue for a second... and then goes back to solid yellow. It's been doing this for the past hour-and-a-half.
Does it just need the full two-and-a-half hours to charge that Nintendo specifies in the manual?
Or did I get a bum Gamepad that I need to return to Amazon?
amiibos in Skylanders were a pretty good idea. It doesn't do much for Nintendo directly (I don't think they need Skylanders advertising Nintendo characters, but who knows?), but it definitely gets amiibo maniacs looking at Skylanders which I'm sure pleases Activision quite a bit.
It's also important to remember that a console doesn't exist in a bubble of time
Exactly this. A lot of your Nintendo loyalists cling to this narrative that third parties just simply have something against Nintendo, and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to change that. So they always parrot the same two points: 1) GCN had hardware parity; 2) Wii had amazing sales. Then they ignore all the other factors at play that might contradict their original conclusion.
But at the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Can Nintendo win back third parties?" Because the answer is "yes." It would take a lot of time and money, but it can be done. The real question should be "Is that even worth doing?"
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you're ignoring the role conventional wisdom (AKA, unsubstantiated bullshit) plays into this. When people assume failure in inevitable, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Corporate boards are run by people with their own perceptions and biases. They aren't automatons that solve equations to maximize money.
Also, there IS an easy way to get 3rd parties on board without spending too much money.
Edit: "The Nintendo NX: Our Games Won't Give You Genital Warts"
Posts
lol
With the Gamecube, Nintendo more or less had hardware that was comparable to its competition on the market. Even with this, they sold less hardware and software than either. Because of this, Third-Party support tapered off during the second half of the console's lifespan.
With the Wii, Nintendo had weaker hardware, but was outselling its competition combined for a good while. Even with a huge userbase, most third parties ignored the Wii outright, instead deciding to port old games or release bullshit spin-off titles instead.
Now we've got the Wii U, with neither the respective hardware power of the Gamecube nor the sales of the Wii...why would any third-party publisher in their right mind bother with it?
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
2 of my 3 most anticipated games right now are EA products.
agreed 100%
which is why I said that Nintendo needs to meet third parties in the middle. Make thier architecture more like the other systems so it costs them less money to develop for. If it used to cost $texas to port a game to Nintendo systems, but now it costs $New Hampshire, maybe they'll get a bit more help from third parties.
It was posted that the cost outweighs the return on Nintendo systems, so Nintendo needs to try to mitigate that. The more games available on a system is the more that system sells.
I would agree, but they are releasing a new Mirror's Edge...and there's no way I can ignore that.
Unprecedented Partnership? :rotate:
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Ever since N64 Nintendo has been throwing up barriers, putting out systems that are substandard in some form or another - be it storage medium, power or online infrastructure. All of those issues can be rectified in a single generation but consumer confidence and publisher/developer relations cannot. Nintendo can get third parties back but it will take a lot of years with a lot of losses. They've dug themselves into such a deep hole I don't believe they'll ever make the effort though. They'll retreat into their shell and try to create a platform they can support on their own. Maybe they'll succeed but I have little doubt they'll be going it alone.
Steam: pazython
Well, it's true. I mean, if I *were* going to play them I'd play them on my computer. And yet, I still don't give a single crap from years of getting boned by EA's anti-consumer bullshot. Bridges burned, no interest in going back.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I feel like this is a sucker's bet at this point.
Historically, we've already seen third parties abandon both high-performance and high-selling Nintendo consoles. The last four consecutive home consoles--everything after the SNES--have ALL had middling or worse support. Even if Nintendo DOES "meet them in the middle" at their own expense, there are STILL even odds that they would find an excuse to not bother. Then Nintendo is left in a situation where they both have minimal third-party support AND hamstrung their internal development speed by forcing themselves to relearn all their own tools.
They might be better off doing the opposite: accept that EA, Activision, and Ubisoft probably aren't coming back and focus on coming up with a platform and a development paradigm which can be profitable off of primarily first-party and indie games.
Steam: pazython
The proper phrase is "So and so doesn't make games I'm interested in."
And that's fine for you, but that sucks for damn near everybody else.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
If Nintendo can convince them to make upscaled versions of their portable games for home consoles, then the NX will at least have some third party support, if still not a lot. Hence all the speculation about NX games being designed with scaling graphics and shared libraries in mind.
Even this is going to be a tough sell, and will probably require Nintendo to at least partially fund the enhancements themselves. But it's less risky than the seemingly futile strategy of trying to court western third parties again.
Whether or not you like a company has nothing to do with game quality.
You don't like EA? Cool with me. But they do publish some good games, whether you play them or notg
What if they don't like them because of their game quality? Checkmate, Atheists.
Steam: pazython
Yes.
You can.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
The Wii had tons of third party support, but because third parties why the Wii U sold (Wii Sports and other part games), they released a ton of shovelware and hoped something would stick. You can't port your 360 or PS4 games to the Wii without a lot of work and basically watering down the experience. This is basically the Wii U except without the shovelware.
Yamauchi pissed off every 3rd party developer with draconian business practices that 100% favored Nintendo and shit on them. As soon as PSX presented itself as a viable alternative, they jumped ship en masse. In some cases it was out of spite, others the N64 cartridge format. Either way, PSX dominated N64. Thus, naturally, that carried over a generation.
So you still have the companies who were pissed at Nintendo, even though Iwata took over soon after and tried to mend bridges. You also had the companies that saw PSX's success and simply wanted to stay with the winning team.
Everything after that is just a shadow of the N64's failure. 3rd parties don't take the Nintendo console seriously because it hasn't been a serious contender since SNES. Wii could have been an exception but no one anticipated its success and projects could not easily shift to the weaker hardware. So they kept on trucking along as they had been doing since PSX.
Edit: I'll add I *think* the spite problems have gone away enough by now (as long as you don't work for EA or Epic) that Nintendo could win them back by basically releasing a stock powerhouse console, but Nintendo isn't particularly likely to do that since it failed the last two times they tried (granted for different reasons) and also it's somewhat against their philosophy.
Yeah, they preemptively returned a bunch of their dev kits, and you know what? They correctly predicted what would happen
They put a Madden game out, it didn't sell
They made the right call, they just didn't drag their feet in doing so. They notice market trends and could see the writing on the wall
But if there were actual money to be made on a Nintendo platform, there's no way they'd pass it up
They're in the business of making money, not childishly spiting people. Sony rejected their EA subscription program that they're currently running on the Xbox One. They have reason to spite Sony for this. But they don't, because there's money to be made there, and the bottom line is all that matters.
But that's because they come late, low quality, and missing features. It's a chicken-egg problem which Nintendo could solve with $$ (get advertising exclusivity and timed-exclusive DLC for Assassin's Creed, say), but on Nintendo's part too, there's better ways to spend the money than solving the Nintendo third party cycle.
If they have a platform with 40 million units, they'll for sure get Call of Duty, Madden, and Fifa. The Wii versions of CoD tapped out around 1 million units, and they were going out of their way to make those.
Well, unless EA's bullshit grudge with Nintendo persists into the NX gen.
Indeed. Especially since Microsoft could very well drop out next gen, given the new President's disdain for side-businesses and the X1's middling sales performance, and then third parties will be in trouble because Sony isn't gonna moneyhat by themselves. Suddenly Nintendo's in a strong position; they'll want to encourage Ninty to try and restart the old rivalry.
It's doing better than the 360 was at the same point in its lifespan
PS4 is just doing better, that's all
I think that's the whole issue. Microsoft's in this to *win*, or at least have dominant mindshare. Presently being about 2:1 with the PS4. If they're not dominant, it'll be hard for the division to convince Nadella and the board to not axe the thing (or likely roll it into a Games for Windows thing).
Exactly this. A lot of your Nintendo loyalists cling to this narrative that third parties just simply have something against Nintendo, and there is literally nothing Nintendo can do to change that. So they always parrot the same two points: 1) GCN had hardware parity; 2) Wii had amazing sales. Then they ignore all the other factors at play that might contradict their original conclusion.
But at the end of the day, the question shouldn't be "Can Nintendo win back third parties?" Because the answer is "yes." It would take a lot of time and money, but it can be done. The real question should be "Is that even worth doing?"
The reason people might be quick to jump on criticism in here isn't that we're blind or ignoring Nintendo's faults it's because we've heard it all here or in the gaming media already and are a bit burned out on the topic.
I thought the goal of this mega thread surviving was more to give us a place to discuss the system because the user base was so low the threads on individual games tended to drop off the front page. Not that discussions can't be held but pages of beating a dead horse gets a bit old.
Neo Geo Big Red owners club.
2009 PAX Puzzle Quest Champion
I have beat Rygar on the NES and many of you have not.
Not gonna lie, that's exactly how I meant it.
Anyway, I'm not saying "Nintendo is doomed." I think they're just exploring a different path to success (compared to PS and XBox). Even though the WiiU had some missteps, I think they'll find the right niche.
With the Wii, and presumably the Wii U, Nintendo tries to dial that back a bit, but few are interested.
As for putting games on the platforms, I remember Resident Evil 4 for Wii was considered the best version, and sold pretty well for a twice warmed over title that wasn't even that old. So what did Capcom follow up with? Rail shooter remakes of earlier games (with some original content in the sequel, at least).
Could they not have mapped the content of RE5 to RE4's engine, at least? Or done something original with it? They just left fans who wanted more of that RE4 Wii experience out to dry.
As for EA on Wii U, I'd still love to know why they gave it the short end of the stick with Mass Effect 3 when they were already doing the trilogy thing. How did that help anything at all?
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
It's less that Nintendo can't change it and more that they don't care to change it. We're on the fourth straight generation with middling third party support. If Nintendo cared enough to change it, they would have made the strides to do so at this point.
So no, it won't be happening.
Ain't gonna lie...definitely missing the video game industry thread right now.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
The reason why we've gone through four gens with weak third party support is 1) they have a whole other market which they've dominated for decades and DO have third party support, 2) The Wii was popular as hell (it had third party support...it was just shovelware) and Nintendo sold a ton of them (and the Wii was the last console they made a profit from, so $$$$$), and 3) they make money elsewhere like on foreign exchange rates for currencies
This generation has been a perfect storm of bad thanks to hurting on both fronts: the 3DS had a rocky start, and the Wii U is a pretty costly failure. Nintendo tried banking on hardware gimmicks over, well, the hardware. Hey, it's great that they'd still got that pioneering spirit for innovation, but sometimes you need to understand that part of experimentation is failure.
I don't think they aren't trying. They know developers are reluctant to release games on Nintendo's consoles out of fear they won't sell, so they've been working with developers to bring games like Hyrule Warriors or Monster Hunter 4 with Nintendo DLC.
Although that seems to have stopped.
The "Look at all these great 3DS games like Saints Row and DJ Hero and more" from 2011 2010 was even worse.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
This year we have Ninty characters in Skylanders.
It didn't turn on when I first opened up the box, so I hooked up the AC cable and set it to charge (it didn't come with the cradle). But it's been charging for at least an hour-and-a-half now; the LED has been solid yellow the whole time. It won't power on while it's charging at all; hitting the power button does nothing.
When I hold down the power button for a few seconds, the yellow LED turns off. When I press it again following this, the LED turns blue for a second... and then goes back to solid yellow. It's been doing this for the past hour-and-a-half.
Does it just need the full two-and-a-half hours to charge that Nintendo specifies in the manual?
Or did I get a bum Gamepad that I need to return to Amazon?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you're ignoring the role conventional wisdom (AKA, unsubstantiated bullshit) plays into this. When people assume failure in inevitable, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Corporate boards are run by people with their own perceptions and biases. They aren't automatons that solve equations to maximize money.
Also, there IS an easy way to get 3rd parties on board without spending too much money.
Edit: "The Nintendo NX: Our Games Won't Give You Genital Warts"
Steam: pazython