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[Heroes of the Storm] Eternal Conflict: Kharazim and Infernal Shrines on PTR

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Posts

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I have played 8 QM games in the last two days and have seen 16 Butchers.

    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
    kime
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I've had plenty of games without Butchers. Still none without at least 1 stealthy. And double stealth every 3 games or so.

    Still fucking stupid.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Butcher seems pretty ridiculous. His initiation, ganking, and cc are superb. On top of all that, he's topped nearly every game for hero damage. In fact I've only seen good Kaels or Jainas outdamage him.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    I decided to learn Falstad, because I'm pretty decent at Valla, but she's popular in HL so I need an option if she's picked (Nova is not an option for me. Jaina has been my dps alternative, but I'm not amazing at her, and my background is adc in LoL, specifically caster-ish adc, so Falstad seems good). What do you guys think of his ult options? In theory the wind ult should be great for getting a melee assassin off you; in practice it's so big that I'd be extremely worried about disrupting any AoE damage the rest of my team as set up. The laser ult is fine, but considering how narrow it is and how long the delay is, it kind of seems like it doesn't do enough damage to be worth it...is one ult considered better than the other?

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    I decided to learn Falstad, because I'm pretty decent at Valla, but she's popular in HL so I need an option if she's picked (Nova is not an option for me. Jaina has been my dps alternative, but I'm not amazing at her, and my background is adc in LoL, specifically caster-ish adc, so Falstad seems good). What do you guys think of his ult options? In theory the wind ult should be great for getting a melee assassin off you; in practice it's so big that I'd be extremely worried about disrupting any AoE damage the rest of my team as set up. The laser ult is fine, but considering how narrow it is and how long the delay is, it kind of seems like it doesn't do enough damage to be worth it...is one ult considered better than the other?

    The laser is his most popular ult. It does a decent amount late game, especially with overdrive up and gathering power stacks. The range also makes it good for picking ppl off if your team can't secure the kill. I've seen the wind ult used exactly once, and found it very lackluster. It can be used to disrupt stationary channels from really far away, but that's about the extent of its teamfight usage imo. You could maybe try to get behind the enemy and use it to push them into your team, but this is likely to result in your death, and may not be the best thing, depending on comps. And Falstad shouldn't really need it to peel assassins anyway, what with the dash and the slow.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yeah, the push ult might have uses in very specific high-skill comps, but it's pretty useless otherwise.

    It seems like it would be a good tool for picking but Falstad is too tissue-paper to do that kind of shit.

    Just generally both of Falstad's Heroics are kinda shitty and don't give him much of a power spike.

    Smrtnik
  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    MrBody wrote: »
    Butcher seems pretty ridiculous. His initiation, ganking, and cc are superb. On top of all that, he's topped nearly every game for hero damage. In fact I've only seen good Kaels or Jainas outdamage him.
    Brace for nurf in 10... 9...

    Panda4You on
  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    I hadn't played on the PTR so last night was my first time with the new BW. Really like her now because she's pure utility and it feels like there are a ton of viable builds.

    I had a pretty nutty HL with her. Opposing team theoretically had a better comp with muradin, rehgar, valla... Forgot the 4th but the 5th was murky. Our team had no warriors. Jaina, Zagara, BW, Li Li, and ... Yeah forgot our 5th. Some of my team was unhappy with the comp, some thought we'd make up for the lack of tank with healing. We won and it was an amusing and fun match.

    bnet: Supagoat#1884
    Switch: 6589-6405-3399
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Panda4You wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Butcher seems pretty ridiculous. His initiation, ganking, and cc are superb. On top of all that, he's topped nearly every game for hero damage. In fact I've only seen good Kaels or Jainas outdamage him.
    Brace for nurf in 10... 9...

    He's only a few days past release; players haven't grown accustomed to countering him yet. The Butcher's dangerous, but he's all-in once he's committed, and that's his major weakness. I think of him a lot like Illidan, to be honest; he has (incredibly) strong AAs, but is dependent on them for his survival. If you stop him from attacking, whether it be through stuns, blinds, kiting, etc, he's really no threat.

    programjunkie
  • KoregKoreg Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Panda4You wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Butcher seems pretty ridiculous. His initiation, ganking, and cc are superb. On top of all that, he's topped nearly every game for hero damage. In fact I've only seen good Kaels or Jainas outdamage him.
    Brace for nurf in 10... 9...

    He's only a few days past release; players haven't grown accustomed to countering him yet. The Butcher's dangerous, but he's all-in once he's committed, and that's his major weakness. I think of him a lot like Illidan, to be honest; he has (incredibly) strong AAs, but is dependent on them for his survival. If you stop him from attacking, whether it be through stuns, blinds, kiting, etc, he's really no threat.

    I actually had a ton of problems with him. There was a ridiculous Nova in the last game I played and she neutralized my Butcher pretty easily. It always seemed like their Falstad and Nova would blow their Snipe, Hammer, and Orbital Strike + LIGHTNING at the beginning of every team fight just to pick me off.

    It was pretty frustrating.

    If, if Reagan played disco He'd shoot it to shit You can't disco in Jackboots
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Koreg wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Panda4You wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Butcher seems pretty ridiculous. His initiation, ganking, and cc are superb. On top of all that, he's topped nearly every game for hero damage. In fact I've only seen good Kaels or Jainas outdamage him.
    Brace for nurf in 10... 9...

    He's only a few days past release; players haven't grown accustomed to countering him yet. The Butcher's dangerous, but he's all-in once he's committed, and that's his major weakness. I think of him a lot like Illidan, to be honest; he has (incredibly) strong AAs, but is dependent on them for his survival. If you stop him from attacking, whether it be through stuns, blinds, kiting, etc, he's really no threat.

    I actually had a ton of problems with him. There was a ridiculous Nova in the last game I played and she neutralized my Butcher pretty easily. It always seemed like their Falstad and Nova would blow their Snipe, Hammer, and Orbital Strike + LIGHTNING at the beginning of every team fight just to pick me off.

    It was pretty frustrating.

    Had a game last night where my team basically did this while I was on Falstad. Butcher is squishy. If you can CC him even a little he can be blown up really fast.

    Also just like Illidan and Thrall a Muradin with reverb screws the butcher over hard core.

    u7stthr17eud.png
  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Yeah I played a HL match on Wednesday night where the other team had the butcher. We focused on him at the beginning of fights and he popped fast. I never really got to see how dangerous he was :)

    bnet: Supagoat#1884
    Switch: 6589-6405-3399
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular

    So y'all noticed how the warriors get an armor metric now on how much damage they soak in a game?
    Shows up in the same column as healing for supports, etc..


    I'd like that to be a generic metric for all heroes, really.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
    kime
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    So y'all noticed how the warriors get an armor metric now on how much damage they soak in a game?
    Shows up in the same column as healing for supports, etc..


    I'd like that to be a generic metric for all heroes, really.

    Yeah, I'd like to be able to cycle through the different stats. If I wanted to know how much self-healing I did as a Warrior, for example. That information's basically gone, now.

    kime
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Ordinarily I'd wait for butchers price to drop, since I don't like spending a third more gold than I otherwise would just to get him

    but I want to play him so bad

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
    kime
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited July 2015
    I'm having a surprising amount of fun playing Zeratul.

    Been trying this build and following the ABCs - Always Be Cleavin'.

    edit: level 7 is pretty situational - First Aid and Follow Through are also great choices. But I like taking a whole wave down to 20% health with one Q, and when you get the Q dot at 16 you kill the whole wave with a Q.

    Echo on
  • Idx86Idx86 Long days and pleasant nights.Registered User regular
    Has anyone else had issues joining/creating games? Everything loads but my quest button and "Join Game" buttons are both greyed out.

    sig.gif

    2008, 2012, 2014 D&D "Rare With No Sauce" League Fantasy Football Champion!
  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    milk ducks wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    So y'all noticed how the warriors get an armor metric now on how much damage they soak in a game?
    Shows up in the same column as healing for supports, etc..


    I'd like that to be a generic metric for all heroes, really.

    Yeah, I'd like to be able to cycle through the different stats. If I wanted to know how much self-healing I did as a Warrior, for example. That information's basically gone, now.

    It never showed self-healing, I thought? ETC always showed up as only having healing if they took Groupies, even though most ETCs jam on E on cooldown.

    Invictus on
    Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Do we know the name of the D3 monk yet?

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    I doubt butcher is going to get nerfed since overall he's pretty difficult to be successful on without dying over and over if you don't know when to engage.

    And as I watch every butcher in my games die 10+ times because they charge everything, that knowledge is clearly not present.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    So I think I'm getting closer to an accurate MMR Range of opponents in QM... My abathur games have dropped from a 73% winrate down to 60%... it's been a tough week on the worm.

    Time to step up the HL game and drive that rank up a bit.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Ordinarily I'd wait for butchers price to drop, since I don't like spending a third more gold than I otherwise would just to get him

    but I want to play him so bad

    +50% more

    kimeEcho
  • CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    I forgot how fun Jaina is. I played her a bit when I first picked up the game, but have been playing other heroes since.

    Her kit is so smooth.

    kime
  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 xbox: Ubeltanzer swtor: UbelRegistered User regular
    hrmm, saw furnace a lot more today on enemy butchers

    seems more effective than I initially thought, since there's very little a tank/support can do to stop or mitigate it if he usues it in tandem with onslaught, except maybe uther and divine shield?

    I suppose also maw or prison, then move far out of his range would do it?

    PSN: Ubeltanzer Blizzard: Ubel#1258
    Dibby
  • Tim is on the InternetTim is on the Internet On the Internet Edmonton, ABRegistered User regular
    I think I just played my first game in which I never died. I have found my support character of choice, and it is Tassadar.

    This game was also 41 minutes.

    Discord: TimIsOnTheInternet#0056
    Steam: TimIsOnSteam
    Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
    Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
    PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
    MMMigkimeThe Escape GoatPanda4YouNeurotikaNobeardFoolOnTheHill
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Tass is super difficult to kill.

    More so than Lili!

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    Panda4YouKnight_forty
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    I think I just played my first game in which I never died. I have found my support character of choice, and it is Tassadar.

    This game was also 41 minutes.

    Tassadar is amazing. I love how he "supports" by obliterating the entire enemy team with giant lasers.

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
    3ds: 3282-2248-0453
    MMMig
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    So y'all noticed how the warriors get an armor metric now on how much damage they soak in a game?
    Shows up in the same column as healing for supports, etc..


    I'd like that to be a generic metric for all heroes, really.

    I would like it to SHOW MY FUCKING HEALING AS ABATHUR AGAIN

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
    MMMigshrykefortyFoolOnTheHill
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    We all have a lot of faith in Blizzard to do this, despite them never getting PvP or Arena right for like, 10 fucking years.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
    programjunkie
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    So y'all noticed how the warriors get an armor metric now on how much damage they soak in a game?
    Shows up in the same column as healing for supports, etc..


    I'd like that to be a generic metric for all heroes, really.

    I would like it to SHOW MY FUCKING HEALING AS ABATHUR AGAIN

    New for the ROLE column... Number of Hats Hatted.

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
    MMMigfortyFry
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    We all have a lot of faith in Blizzard to do this, despite them never getting PvP or Arena right for like, 10 fucking years.

    Balancing PvP in an MMO is an impossible feat. They've done a good job with Starcraft though as far as I know.

    fortyPanda4You
  • SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Ordinarily I'd wait for butchers price to drop, since I don't like spending a third more gold than I otherwise would just to get him

    but I want to play him so bad

    Phrasing... :-P

    But seriously, save that swag for Leoric.

    Sokpuppet on
  • FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    "Hey, come with us we're just going to team fight"

    I really hate when people think this works in this game. (This was at the start of a match, and we were down 12 to 8 in levels pretty quickly.

    FuriousJodo on Twitch/PSN/XBL/Whatever else
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    "Hey, come with us we're just going to team fight"

    I really hate when people think this works in this game. (This was at the start of a match, and we were down 12 to 8 in levels pretty quickly.

    I dunno, man. I can see the XP bar jump when we kill a hero, while I don't see it move at all when I kill a single creep.

    QED etc etc etc.

    kimeFuriousJodo
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    We all have a lot of faith in Blizzard to do this, despite them never getting PvP or Arena right for like, 10 fucking years.

    The difference is that Heroes is built with competitive PVP as it's core mode. WoW is a PVE game in which PVP was added after release. The game is first and foremost a raiding game, and it will never be possible to truly balance that game for PVP because the game engine was not originally designed for BGs and Arenas. They make it work (sorta), but it's a bandaid and not organic to the core structure of the game.

    CyrenicKhraul
  • SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    We all have a lot of faith in Blizzard to do this, despite them never getting PvP or Arena right for like, 10 fucking years.


    We do?

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    We all have a lot of faith in Blizzard to do this, despite them never getting PvP or Arena right for like, 10 fucking years.

    The difference is that Heroes is built with competitive PVP as it's core mode. WoW is a PVE game in which PVP was added after release. The game is first and foremost a raiding game, and it will never be possible to truly balance that game for PVP because the game engine was not originally designed for BGs and Arenas. They make it work (sorta), but it's a bandaid and not organic to the core structure of the game.

    Even in the days when I did heavy pvp I was still regularly running raids and crafting stuff. I had a lot of fun in Battlegrounds (I wasn't playing as much with a pvp group when Arenas came out) since they offered experiences different from the PvE but it was very, very tough to just only do PvP (I knew and played with some that did though).

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Having sunk a lot of hours into LoL and original DotA(WC3), those games feel more like a scripted dance. You do the same thing every time. It's a routine. It's almost choreographed. The pros do it better, but even in novice games, it's just sloppy choreography. Every match is the same thing, and there's basically just 1 winning team comp, with a few interchangeable heroes. You've got your tank, support, AD Carry, Jungler, and usually another DPS.

    The beautiful thing about Heroes is that every match is much more organic. Team comps are wildly different. Some use two tanks, some use two healers, some use 5 specialists. Every match produces a unique experience, and it's much less predictable. The semi-random nature of the objectives and all of that means that there's no choreography.

    Holy god did the meta scripting kill LoL. I used to love that game as the casual DotA alternative until the Twitch tournament hive mind took over. We are now in a bizarro dimension where DotA 2 is more casual and forgiving than LoL.

    So many MOBAs start sucking once they make a serious push to be taken seriously by the competitive tournament scene. Awesomenauts used to be my favorite casual choice until they changed it to appeal to competitive pros, by making it so early kills "mattered" more and now everyone just plays boring safe laning for 10 minutes because the snowballing from an early death is way too crazy now.

    HOLY JEEZ I know this is kind of off topic but man you nailed it. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that way. That game used to be legit fun, and then they started making really terrible and odd balance/design choices because they were listening to the competitive players. The competitive players, which were a small tiny microcosm in a game that already had a VERY SMALL PLAYER POOL. Like ~2000-3000 players total. And this competitive scene consisted of such a small percentage of players (I'd have to say no more than, idk, 30-40? and that's being generous).

    They nerfed the everliving crap out of Genji because he was broken at high level play, but now that meant he was utterly useless in normal, casual play (which is like what 90% of the people playing Awesomenauts were doing). Nerfed his damage, nerfed his shield, everything. All because these competitive players were sitting on Ronimo's shoulders whispering in their ears.

    As soon as I got my Tech Alpha invite to HotS I dropped Awesomenauts super quick. It was just slowly becoming really not-fun. Haven't touched it since, wonder what's become of it since.

    Anyway that all said and done, I completely believe Blizzard of all companies will be able to balance and adjust the game for both pro-level play and normal level play.

    We all have a lot of faith in Blizzard to do this, despite them never getting PvP or Arena right for like, 10 fucking years.

    The difference is that Heroes is built with competitive PVP as it's core mode. WoW is a PVE game in which PVP was added after release. The game is first and foremost a raiding game, and it will never be possible to truly balance that game for PVP because the game engine was not originally designed for BGs and Arenas. They make it work (sorta), but it's a bandaid and not organic to the core structure of the game.

    Blizzard had always claimed PvP to be an 'integral part of the experience, if you desired' and first there was world pvp, with city raids. Then came the battlegrounds.

    And then they released arena and tried to say "Oh we balanced PvP to be competitive" when it in no way was.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
    Cyrenic
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