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[Internet Dating] - Ave, Imperator, amaturi te salutant!

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Posts

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Dating advice tends to be about as useful as the following:
    Han Solo: Keep your distance though, Chewie…but don’t look like your tryin’ to keep your distance. I don’t know…fly casual.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    Gnome-InterruptusJoolander
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel regular Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    One thing I've encountered in reading dating advice that's been especially damaging to my confidence is the kind of article on "how to not come off as creepy to women". You'd think reading something like that would make me think "now I know what not to do" but instead it's primed me to be paranoid about how I come across in what I say and do.

    That's because that's the goal of those articles, sadly. They want you to think that "being seen as creepy" is an actual major problem for guys, to dismiss women getting their intuition pinged. Here's the simple truth - if you treat women with respect and earnestly apologize when you do something that is problematic, you will not come across as creepy.

    While that is good advice some men genuinely have no idea how to do that. Or rather they think they do and refuse to see that they do not. It would be nice if those men could find some genuine advice from people to help them see what they are doing wrong. Never looked myself so I don't know if that is out there or not.

    The old adage of "Simple is not the same as easy" applies for a lot of people here. Reading people is something that can take experience even if you know what to look for on paper. While people who regularly go over the line of comfort aren't going to care, people too anxious about it easily get paranoid about crossing that line and shut down too much. Having people to use as a sounding board for advice takes a social support network that takes time to build up and quickly reduces when people move away for work/school/family/etc.

    It all ties back into why a lot of advice thrown around here often turns to having more social hobbies and activities. Gives opportunity to read people in general, expand social circles, and if someone there is a single person one is attracted to so much the better as there's already a setting encouraging some level of social interaction. This advice admittedly is less easy to implement for people with significant social anxiety but that's the kind of thing one needs professional help to deal with, not a bunch of weirdos on the internet slinging advice we think sounds good.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    I have a personal example of when my behavior was labeled creepy that I was totally unaware of until after the fact.

    So my cousin has a friend whose house we used to hang out sometimes. At first me and her friend got along well and would message each other on Facebook sometimes, but over time I noticed she seemed less cheerful when talking to me and wouldn't return my messages. She had also gotten a boyfriend recently, so I thought maybe she was afraid her boyfriend would get jealous if she talked to me as much.

    About a month ago I was talking to my cousin about how I was upset my most recent girlfriend dumped me and asked her if there was anything she could tell I was doing wrong. At first she didn't say anything, but after pressing she did say "well, my friend did tell me once it made her uncomfortable how you would follow her."

    I had absolutelu no idea what my cousin was talking about. "What do you mean 'follow her'? Where?"

    She explained that her friend had described times when I would be talking to her friend in the living room, the friend would go to the kitchen to get something and I would follow her into the kitchen to keep talking. I asked "what's wrong with that" only for my cousin to say "I don't know, she just said it made her uncomfortable."

    After she said that I could remember multiple times with my last girlfriend where we'd be talking or watching something in her living room, she'd get up to get something or cook a grilled cheese in the kitchen, and I'd follow her in there thinking we'd just keep talking only for her to be quiet.

    I would have never, ever guessed that something like that would make a woman so uncomfortable. I've read womens' experiences where clueless guys have done things like just knock on the door of the apartment where they live and ask if they're single despite the woman having no idea who this guy is.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I have a personal example of when my behavior was labeled creepy that I was totally unaware of until after the fact.

    So my cousin has a friend whose house we used to hang out sometimes. At first me and her friend got along well and would message each other on Facebook sometimes, but over time I noticed she seemed less cheerful when talking to me and wouldn't return my messages. She had also gotten a boyfriend recently, so I thought maybe she was afraid her boyfriend would get jealous if she talked to me as much.

    About a month ago I was talking to my cousin about how I was upset my most recent girlfriend dumped me and asked her if there was anything she could tell I was doing wrong. At first she didn't say anything, but after pressing she did say "well, my friend did tell me once it made her uncomfortable how you would follow her."

    I had absolutelu no idea what my cousin was talking about. "What do you mean 'follow her'? Where?"

    She explained that her friend had described times when I would be talking to her friend in the living room, the friend would go to the kitchen to get something and I would follow her into the kitchen to keep talking. I asked "what's wrong with that" only for my cousin to say "I don't know, she just said it made her uncomfortable."

    After she said that I could remember multiple times with my last girlfriend where we'd be talking or watching something in her living room, she'd get up to get something or cook a grilled cheese in the kitchen, and I'd follow her in there thinking we'd just keep talking only for her to be quiet.

    This one isn't strictly a gender thing. Ducking into another room or area is a common way for someone to take a break from a conversation. Some people will make it clear they're leaving the conversation by saying "Excuse me, I need to . . ." first but obviously not every one does It just takes on some extra intensity if the number of people involved is smaller or someone is more introverted than the other and extra dimensions based on genders. I have relatives not great at social cues either due to cultural differences or autism that will follow me around the house and it is extremely exhausting mentally for my introverted brain.

    Coincidentally, I was talking with a friend at a dance party last night who specifically invited me to tag along and keep chatting while she grabbed some water at the fountain across the room. That environment has the expectation of socialization and is just an overall friendly place so it's common for people to rejoin the conversation after wandering a way for a bit but it's still unusual for the conversation to carry on during that interlude.
    I would have never, ever guessed that something like that would make a woman so uncomfortable. I've read womens' experiences where clueless guys have done things like just knock on the door of the apartment where they live and ask if they're single despite the woman having no idea who this guy is.

    This actually was a really common thing back some decades ago when people married quickly upon reaching adulthood and often never left the city they were born in. Meeting someone and getting married was often the only was a middle or lower income class woman would leave her parents home which would be rather cramped if it was an apartment. It's one of those things that reads as bizarre and creepy now that I could still see being touted if someone received advice on dating from a grandparent or other relative from a culture that's been slower to change. It also makes me wonder how our descendants will view our approaches to this in 50 years or more. "Wait, you were approaching complete strangers for conversation? Why didn't you use your sinus augmentations to detect someone's receptiveness by analyzing their pheromones first like a non-neanderthal?"

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 regular Registered User regular
    The best way to up your social awareness with regard to interaction with women is to significantly increase your non-dating, non-romantic exposure to women.

    Look at your social activities. Heck, look at your social media followings, your reading list, your TV and movie list. What percentage of it is dominated by male voices?

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I would have never, ever guessed that something like that would make a woman so uncomfortable. I've read womens' experiences where clueless guys have done things like just knock on the door of the apartment where they live and ask if they're single despite the woman having no idea who this guy is.

    This actually was a really common thing back some decades ago when people married quickly upon reaching adulthood and often never left the city they were born in. Meeting someone and getting married was often the only was a middle or lower income class woman would leave her parents home which would be rather cramped if it was an apartment. It's one of those things that reads as bizarre and creepy now that I could still see being touted if someone received advice on dating from a grandparent or other relative from a culture that's been slower to change.

    Do you have a reference for this? Not that I don't believe you, but it's so weird from a modern perspective that I'd like to read more.

    Concerning getting advice from older people, there also seems to be a generational divide on asking someone out at work. My father asked my mother out when she was a cashier at the McDonalds drivethrough, after they divorced he asked out a co-worker who became my step-mother, and that step-mother advised me once when I remarked about a woman I had went on a date with not returning my texts that I should go to wear she works and ask her what's going on (I didn't do that). Meanwhile the general consensus I see among younger women is that a guy asking you out at work feels threatening and that no guy should ever do it.

    On a related note, I've also seen mixed responses to looking up someone you're thinking about asking out on Facebook to see what they're like and if you'd really be interested. The consensus I've seen online and my younger step-sister's opinion is that it's very creepy and stalker-ish. Conversely, my step-mother once looked up someone I had said I was thinking about asking out on Facebook as soon as I said what her name was, an ex-girlfriend advised me to look up someone I was interested in to see what she was like, another ex while we were still dating told me once while we were hanging out at my place that she and two of her friends had been all through my Facebook profile to see what I was like, and a friend said he thought it was normal and common-place now to go through someone's Facebook profile as long as you don't also message them (so basically "they'll only be creeped out if they find out you did it").

    I personally err on the sake of caution, so I don't ask women out at work or look up their Facebook profiles.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I would have never, ever guessed that something like that would make a woman so uncomfortable. I've read womens' experiences where clueless guys have done things like just knock on the door of the apartment where they live and ask if they're single despite the woman having no idea who this guy is.

    This actually was a really common thing back some decades ago when people married quickly upon reaching adulthood and often never left the city they were born in. Meeting someone and getting married was often the only was a middle or lower income class woman would leave her parents home which would be rather cramped if it was an apartment. It's one of those things that reads as bizarre and creepy now that I could still see being touted if someone received advice on dating from a grandparent or other relative from a culture that's been slower to change.

    Do you have a reference for this? Not that I don't believe you, but it's so weird from a modern perspective that I'd like to read more.

    I learned about it from Modern Romance, a book that looked at how dating has changed from the boomer generation to today plus some looks at other countries where dating seems even more grueling than the US. It was fascinating though not everyone is comfortable supporting Aziz Ansari as much after the last two years.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    So, I'm still trying to expand my range of exposure, but is the assumption on Tinder more general dating now or is it still more for casual interactions, if not just hooking up anymore. If nothing else I'd hate to sell a bill of goods my total lack of experience in any form of dating or relationships can't back up.

    Lord_Asmodeus.gifLord_Asmodeus2.gifz1i30sg.png
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I think that depends on your age. It seems like late 20s onward, most people on Tinder are looking for relationships, not hookups.

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    thatassemblyguy
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy RESIST. irregularRegistered User regular
    I went on a date last night. She was pretty rad. Though she is also insanely busy.

    We have a date scheduled for November.

    I’m gonna go because she’s rad.

    Following up on this.

    Went on another date with this person recently, and I’m getting the feeling that I’m the option to the option. But they also don’t seem like the type of person to be the one to come out and just say they’re not into me.

    Refuses to make solid plans (with me) until close to the last minute.

    I’ll get those random texts at 1830 asking to go out (when previously the communicated impression/implication was that they had other plans that very night), so technically they’re asking me to go do something but in the way that has the highest probability that I’m already doing something. The two dates we’ve gone on were talked about in tentative/generic terms but weren’t made official until probably 4 hours or so before hand.

    Other attempts to make solid plans (“Hey, there is this thing coming up in a few days, want to go?”), outside of the last minute texts I would receive from them, were met with, “I would hate to have to cancel on you.”

    Kind of sad, but this is dating. 🙃

  • BlarghyBlarghy regular Registered User regular
    Chaotic people living busy lives is one of the core demographics for online dating. I feel for you, but you'll run into that a lot.

    thatassemblyguyGnome-Interruptus
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy RESIST. irregularRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Blarghy wrote: »
    Chaotic people living busy lives is one of the core demographics for online dating. I feel for you, but you'll run into that a lot.

    The silly part is that they do make committed plans a few days out with other people, not networking or business related ones even, and have even talked to me about them as soon as they made them to let me know that they’re just sooo busy.

    That’s not a person living a busy life, that’s just someone trying to be weirdly manipulative (in my opinion).

    e: I guess I should clarify, someone can have a chaotic, busy life, but still approach dating maturely and respecting the other person’s time.

    For example, there is a big difference between these two scenarios (especially when scenario #1 happens a lot)

    A few days out: [them] “Sorry, I’m busy that day, let’s talk after.”
    <No further discussion about plans on the day in question>
    The day in question:
    [me] *gone about my normal schedule and am in the middle of the gym/plans I confirmed 24 hours in advance*
    [them] *Sends a text wanting to meetup*
    ====
    A few days out: [them] “Sorry, I’m busy that day, let’s talk after.”
    Day Before: [them] “Hey, I’m still booked for this thing tomorrow, but if it ends early, would you be up for meeting up?”
    [me] “That sounds great. I have planned to do xyz, but I’d love it if we could make something happen tomorrow.”
    The day in question:
    [me] *had the opportunity to shift my normal schedule to make it easier to pivot - lunch gym or arrive earlier to the office so I can leave earlier to run the errands I needed to run*
    [them] *sends text wanting to meetup*

    thatassemblyguy on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Can someone give me some pointers on flirting? I've honestly been afraid to do it for fear of making someone uncomfortable. The most I've ever done is left a very large tip ($15 on a $20 bill) and a written "Thank you!" on the bill for a waitress I found attractive, and even then never followed up on it.

    I ask now because I read a post elsewhere in which a woman was flattered that a co-worker that had been flirting with her kissed the back of her hand, which she appreciated, and my immediate thought was "wasn't that guy afraid she might report him for harassment?"

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Can someone give me some pointers on flirting? I've honestly been afraid to do it for fear of making someone uncomfortable. The most I've ever done is left a very large tip ($15 on a $20 bill) and a written "Thank you!" on the bill for a waitress I found attractive, and even then never followed up on it.

    I ask now because I read a post elsewhere in which a woman was flattered that a co-worker that had been flirting with her kissed the back of her hand, which she appreciated, and my immediate thought was "wasn't that guy afraid she might report him for harassment?"

    Flirting is tough for me.

    The best I can give for advise is to actually say out loud the things you notice that are complimentary, dont just keep them to yourself.

    A bit of complimentary word play can sometimes be appreciated too.

    Just be careful not to be overzealous with compliments as that can also seem disingenuous or manipulative.

    Another that I find I really enjoy is when texting/messaging using ‘hey beautiful’ ‘hey gorgeous’ ‘hey handsome’ etc. Its a small thing that feels really great, especially if they respond back with similar.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Can someone give me some pointers on flirting? I've honestly been afraid to do it for fear of making someone uncomfortable. The most I've ever done is left a very large tip ($15 on a $20 bill) and a written "Thank you!" on the bill for a waitress I found attractive, and even then never followed up on it.

    I ask now because I read a post elsewhere in which a woman was flattered that a co-worker that had been flirting with her kissed the back of her hand, which she appreciated, and my immediate thought was "wasn't that guy afraid she might report him for harassment?"

    Flirting is one of those things that depends a lot on context in terms of both the social context and the chemistry between those involved. What would be general compliments take on a different feeling when there's mutual attraction going on.

    Obviously having that mutual attraction and recognizing it can let people do more without making the other person uncomfortable too as in your example. That kiss on the hand obviously wasn't an opening interaction and it's old-timey enough to come across as classy.

    Humor helps too. It lightens things so one doesn't come across as too intense. Plus a good sense of humor is something almost everyone finds attractive.

    It really comes down to gauging if someone is interested in interacting with you first. If attempts at conversation seem to always die, that person is not a great candidate to flirt with.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • ErlkönigErlkönig regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Can someone give me some pointers on flirting? I've honestly been afraid to do it for fear of making someone uncomfortable. The most I've ever done is left a very large tip ($15 on a $20 bill) and a written "Thank you!" on the bill for a waitress I found attractive, and even then never followed up on it.

    I ask now because I read a post elsewhere in which a woman was flattered that a co-worker that had been flirting with her kissed the back of her hand, which she appreciated, and my immediate thought was "wasn't that guy afraid she might report him for harassment?"

    Flirting is tough for me.

    The best I can give for advise is to actually say out loud the things you notice that are complimentary, dont just keep them to yourself.

    A bit of complimentary word play can sometimes be appreciated too.

    Just be careful not to be overzealous with compliments as that can also seem disingenuous or manipulative.

    Another that I find I really enjoy is when texting/messaging using ‘hey beautiful’ ‘hey gorgeous’ ‘hey handsome’ etc. Its a small thing that feels really great, especially if they respond back with similar.

    Just...maybe don't do this in your first set of messages/texts. One trend I've noticed on online dating profiles is that, for several (most?) profiles, they actually state "Messages that start with 'Hey beautiful' will be ignored."

    It's one of those things where you just need to be aware of the timing of things (kinda like the rest of G-I's suggestion, actually...timing is going to be pretty important).

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I wish I had known there were so many rules to dating before now. I guess most people find this out by trial and error growing up, but it's so rare that I meet someone I'd want to try and date that I never got most of those experiences (my general anxiety in social situations didn't help either).

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I wish I had known there were so many rules to dating before now. I guess most people find this out by trial and error growing up, but it's so rare that I meet someone I'd want to try and date that I never got most of those experiences (my general anxiety in social situations didn't help either).

    I don't think this is something you wanna try to build from the top floor while ignoring the foundation.

    How's your social life? How do you do in social situations that aren't romantic?

    Same questions, but specifying that it includes people of the gender you would like to date but you aren't actually interested in dating them?

    How's your emotional health? Do you need therapy (just kidding, everyone needs therapy).

    I'm not trying to assume too much, but if you think that tipping a waitress is flirting, you're so far behind the curve on this one that I don't think just throwing yourself off the deep end into normal adult dating is gonna be healthy for anyone.

    SatanIsMyMotorkimeSmrtnikBandabletynic
  • BlarghyBlarghy regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I wish I had known there were so many rules to dating before now. I guess most people find this out by trial and error growing up, but it's so rare that I meet someone I'd want to try and date that I never got most of those experiences (my general anxiety in social situations didn't help either).

    I would really suggest getting to know people and interact with them in not-necessarily dating social circles first. It doesn't matter what gender they are. Build up your social skills to the point where you can start getting an idea of what people are thinking, because a lot of what dating is, is just working to be comfortable with one another. The same skills that build friendships are used in dating too.

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  • DashuiDashui regular Registered User regular
    Online dating has been a quagmire of suck lately. I've run into a lot of bots. There was one promising date, but then she didn't want to connect on any other emotional level besides being naughty over the phone. It was getting a little weird!

    I've been reservedly pursuing a single mom/coworker for a little while now instead. It's an emotional roller coaster! On one hand, I'm told the kid adores me, she likes me to cook for her, asks me to go on lunch breaks together, talks about future plans, and expresses a lot of her interests (going so far as to shove a ton of books, shows, and movies at me to take home) and deep insecurities. And then on the other hand communication during the week is painfully slow or downright nonexistent, with me being the one to usually initiate conversation. No exchanged phone numbers. No overt flirting or physical contact yet. I've held back on that due to some of her past circumstances. She does wring her hands nervously when we talk, though, which maybe means she likes me or just doesn't want me to blurt out feelings and ruin the friendship like someone else recently did. I just don't know what's going on!

    I think I may be an emotional support guy friend.

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  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 regular Registered User regular
    Dashui wrote: »
    Online dating has been a quagmire of suck lately. I've run into a lot of bots. There was one promising date, but then she didn't want to connect on any other emotional level besides being naughty over the phone. It was getting a little weird!

    I've been reservedly pursuing a single mom/coworker for a little while now instead. It's an emotional roller coaster! On one hand, I'm told the kid adores me, she likes me to cook for her, asks me to go on lunch breaks together, talks about future plans, and expresses a lot of her interests (going so far as to shove a ton of books, shows, and movies at me to take home) and deep insecurities. And then on the other hand communication during the week is painfully slow or downright nonexistent, with me being the one to usually initiate conversation. No exchanged phone numbers. No overt flirting or physical contact yet. I've held back on that due to some of her past circumstances. She does wring her hands nervously when we talk, though, which maybe means she likes me or just doesn't want me to blurt out feelings and ruin the friendship like someone else recently did. I just don't know what's going on!

    I think I may be an emotional support guy friend.

    Ask her on an actual date then? No need to blurt out your feelings beyond that. Just make it clear that if she says no, you're OK with being friends too (assuming you are). I mean, you might be right that she sees you as a good friend without romantic feelings, but it's also possible she's just as confused about you as you are about her. The best way to find out is to ask.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 regular Registered User regular
    Dashui wrote: »
    Online dating has been a quagmire of suck lately. I've run into a lot of bots. There was one promising date, but then she didn't want to connect on any other emotional level besides being naughty over the phone. It was getting a little weird!

    I've been reservedly pursuing a single mom/coworker for a little while now instead. It's an emotional roller coaster! On one hand, I'm told the kid adores me, she likes me to cook for her, asks me to go on lunch breaks together, talks about future plans, and expresses a lot of her interests (going so far as to shove a ton of books, shows, and movies at me to take home) and deep insecurities. And then on the other hand communication during the week is painfully slow or downright nonexistent, with me being the one to usually initiate conversation. No exchanged phone numbers. No overt flirting or physical contact yet. I've held back on that due to some of her past circumstances. She does wring her hands nervously when we talk, though, which maybe means she likes me or just doesn't want me to blurt out feelings and ruin the friendship like someone else recently did. I just don't know what's going on!

    I think I may be an emotional support guy friend.

    You have two choices:

    1) ask her out and risk the friendship

    2) decide that you aren’t going to ask her out and stop seeing her that way, commit to permanent platonic friendship

    The longer you wait to make your choice, the worse it will be.

    Steel AngelSmrtnikIncenjucar
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    So here's a bolt-from-the-blue epiphany I had just now (while playing Mega Man 11; my mind never completely stops contemplating):

    Part of my problem is that 1) I'm afraid of fucking up and making a woman uncomfortable and 2) other men seem more confident than me, which makes me feel inferior in comparison. The thing is, I never really questioned why they were confident before; I assumed it was just because they had way more experience than me and didn't have social anxiety holding them back.

    Just now, though, I considered this: what if some of them are confident because they don't care if they fuck up, or don't believe they've ever done anything wrong even when they actually have? Whereas I'm paranoid of making a woman uncomfortable to the point that I'm reluctant to try flirting, some of them may have the attitude that if a woman doesn't appreciate something they do it's because they're crazy or uptight, not because they actually did something wrong, so they have nothing to feel ashamed of or regret.

    As I type this out it sounds really, really obvious, especially considering all the stories I've heard of women being mistreated by unapologetic men, or the fact that one PUA technique is to make a woman feel inferior. I can't believe I've somehow never considered this before. I don't have to feel jealous of confident men or inferior in comparison to them because a lot of them are probably only confident because they're unapologetic male chauvinists who don't care if they hurt women or make them uncomfortable. My fear of making someone uncomfortable means I care when they don't.

    This really feels like it takes a weight off my shoulders, that it gives me a reason to feel more confident instead of feeling inferior.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 regular Registered User regular
    I think you need to stop looking for the one Stroke of Genius Epipany That Will Change Everything.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA regular Registered User regular
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    I think you need to stop looking for the one Stroke of Genius Epipany That Will Change Everything.

    Thanks for the positive comment.

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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    I think you need to stop looking for the one Stroke of Genius Epipany That Will Change Everything.

    Thanks for the positive comment.

    Feeling more confident is great, but getting better at dating isn't going to happen all at once. Be patient, keep working on your social skills, and it'll happen in time.

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  • discriderdiscrider regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    I think you need to stop looking for the one Stroke of Genius Epipany That Will Change Everything.

    Thanks for the positive comment.

    This was how I felt about all communication in high school.
    Every interaction had the possibility of me saying something dumb, so I didn't say anything.

    Not saying anything to anyone wasn't healthy either of course, so I had to eventually just make peace with trying whatever came to mind, then apologising if that did cause harm and learning from that.

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  • BlarghyBlarghy regular Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So here's a bolt-from-the-blue epiphany I had just now (while playing Mega Man 11; my mind never completely stops contemplating):

    Part of my problem is that 1) I'm afraid of fucking up and making a woman uncomfortable and 2) other men seem more confident than me, which makes me feel inferior in comparison. The thing is, I never really questioned why they were confident before; I assumed it was just because they had way more experience than me and didn't have social anxiety holding them back.

    Just now, though, I considered this: what if some of them are confident because they don't care if they fuck up, or don't believe they've ever done anything wrong even when they actually have? Whereas I'm paranoid of making a woman uncomfortable to the point that I'm reluctant to try flirting, some of them may have the attitude that if a woman doesn't appreciate something they do it's because they're crazy or uptight, not because they actually did something wrong, so they have nothing to feel ashamed of or regret.

    As I type this out it sounds really, really obvious, especially considering all the stories I've heard of women being mistreated by unapologetic men, or the fact that one PUA technique is to make a woman feel inferior. I can't believe I've somehow never considered this before. I don't have to feel jealous of confident men or inferior in comparison to them because a lot of them are probably only confident because they're unapologetic male chauvinists who don't care if they hurt women or make them uncomfortable. My fear of making someone uncomfortable means I care when they don't.

    This really feels like it takes a weight off my shoulders, that it gives me a reason to feel more confident instead of feeling inferior.

    While some guys are certainly jerks, its not really the case that confidence is largely a form of not caring. Its really just the realization that women are just people too and -all- people get nervous and/or fuck up a lot. Seriously, dating is often a fumbly and awkward situation, even if you're Captain Suave. I've said and done all sorts of dumb stuff with women but, guess what, most people are willing to overlook a lot of ultimately irrelevant awkwardness and dumb-assery if they're comfortable with you as a whole. Whether you come off as a bit forward, or nervous, or whatnot is easily forgiven. You can recover from it.

    Think of it this way: if you go out with a woman who is nervous and makes an awkward joke, but otherwise seems nice and relate able, would you hold that joke against her? Most women would feel the same way right back to you. Most online dating tips are about trying to reduce common awkward issues so as to allow you to get into a mutual comfort zone relatively easily, not hard rules you must follow or else you'll completely wreck your chances. Once you realize that some awkwardness or uncomfortability is an inevitable aspect of dating, the confidence comes from knowing that it will happen and that you can overcome it anyway.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel regular Registered User regular
    Blarghy wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So here's a bolt-from-the-blue epiphany I had just now (while playing Mega Man 11; my mind never completely stops contemplating):

    Part of my problem is that 1) I'm afraid of fucking up and making a woman uncomfortable and 2) other men seem more confident than me, which makes me feel inferior in comparison. The thing is, I never really questioned why they were confident before; I assumed it was just because they had way more experience than me and didn't have social anxiety holding them back.

    Just now, though, I considered this: what if some of them are confident because they don't care if they fuck up, or don't believe they've ever done anything wrong even when they actually have? Whereas I'm paranoid of making a woman uncomfortable to the point that I'm reluctant to try flirting, some of them may have the attitude that if a woman doesn't appreciate something they do it's because they're crazy or uptight, not because they actually did something wrong, so they have nothing to feel ashamed of or regret.

    As I type this out it sounds really, really obvious, especially considering all the stories I've heard of women being mistreated by unapologetic men, or the fact that one PUA technique is to make a woman feel inferior. I can't believe I've somehow never considered this before. I don't have to feel jealous of confident men or inferior in comparison to them because a lot of them are probably only confident because they're unapologetic male chauvinists who don't care if they hurt women or make them uncomfortable. My fear of making someone uncomfortable means I care when they don't.

    This really feels like it takes a weight off my shoulders, that it gives me a reason to feel more confident instead of feeling inferior.

    While some guys are certainly jerks, its not really the case that confidence is largely a form of not caring. Its really just the realization that women are just people too and -all- people get nervous and/or fuck up a lot. Seriously, dating is often a fumbly and awkward situation, even if you're Captain Suave. I've said and done all sorts of dumb stuff with women but, guess what, most people are willing to overlook a lot of ultimately irrelevant awkwardness and dumb-assery if they're comfortable with you as a whole. Whether you come off as a bit forward, or nervous, or whatnot is easily forgiven. You can recover from it.

    Think of it this way: if you go out with a woman who is nervous and makes an awkward joke, but otherwise seems nice and relate able, would you hold that joke against her? Most women would feel the same way right back to you. Most online dating tips are about trying to reduce common awkward issues so as to allow you to get into a mutual comfort zone relatively easily, not hard rules you must follow or else you'll completely wreck your chances. Once you realize that some awkwardness or uncomfortability is an inevitable aspect of dating, the confidence comes from knowing that it will happen and that you can overcome it anyway.

    Case in point: A friend once threw up in her date's car on their first date when symptoms of an illness manifested suddenly on the way back home. They cleaned up as best they could and parted ways. The date until then had gone well and not long after, the guy called asking about getting together for a second date.

    People are willing to forgive a lot if the act was not done in malice and they generally like the person.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    I can scarcely believe I'm posting this, but... Got asked out by my crush. And they said the age of miracles was past! It'll be low-key, this coming weekend at a thing she's mostly going to for her four-year-old, I think, but hey. It counts! (I made sure to check it was in fact a date, that we were on the same page. And low-key, again, she didn't deny it.) Just got to keep everything (excitement etc) tempered a bit and not get carried away. But fingers crossed.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Yay Jazz!! Good luck!

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Thanks! I'm gonna need it... :lol:

  • TzelTzel regular Registered User regular
    I met my now wife (and mother-to-be of our future child - due in late fall!) on OKCupid, as did my college roommate and his husband, and as did my other college friend and his now-husband (who just got married this weekend). Anecdotally, it seems like the best of the online dating sites. Some (hopefully helpful!) observations:

    1) The free form profile is a really great way to attract exactly the type of person you are looking for. Using the friend who got married this weekend as an example, his opening line was a quote from/reference to Frank Herbert’s Dune. He may not have gotten a lot of people to message him with that, but he knew that those who understood it would be much more likely to be his partner in sci-fi/fantasy explorations.

    2) Don’t take yourself too seriously. This is probably the most important. Even in this day when online dating is almost becoming “standard,” it can feel a little silly to many people. Playing off that, I think, helps set the person on the other end at ease. “They feel just as ridiculous here as I do,” the person reading your profile will, hopefully, think. For example, instead of the “usual” list of: cooking, wine, and long walks on the beach, in the “things you’re good at/like to do” section, I wrote that my skills lay in “chopping vegetables” and “finding all the a/c I can” (I live in a very warm place in the southern US, but come from a cold place, so I am always boiling here).

    3) Opening messages are always hit-or-miss, but try to include something that speaks to their interests from their profile without being a direct pull from it. My wife described herself as a “sassy, sarcastic nerd” who loves comics and had studied abroad in Scotland, so I asked her for her opinion on Superman and/or her favorite scotch. Something like “Hi, I’m XYZName. You seem really into Harry Potter - what’s your take on how the wizarding economy works?” is probably a better message than “I saw you like Harry Potter. Who is your favorite character?” Suggest commonality, instead of forcing the things you might have in common into the conversation. I probably could have written this part more eloquently, but hopefully the idea comes through.

    4) Asking someone out to meet in person is scary! If you’ve been messaging back and forth for a couple weeks, chances are they won’t turn down a first date (assuming you’re in same city), but the worst they can say is “no.” The best advice I can give is to not have the first date at a coffee shop or restaurant; there is no avenue other than leaving abruptly if it doesn’t go well from either side, or sticking it out in awkward conversation and/or silence. Pick an activity that you think you’d both enjoy doing together, whether it’s going to a video arcade, or a museum, the zoo, etc. For our first date, we met up at the natural science museum, because I figured if we didn’t hit it off, then at least we got to see dinosaurs and that’s still a pretty good day.

    5) The person you go on a date with may decide they’re not that into you (happened to me), or you can decide you’re not that into them (also happened to me). And that’s okay. No sense in over-analyzing it; some people just don’t click. Try to go into it with the attitude of “I’m going out with this person because they seem fun and I think we’ll enjoy ourselves” and less “I’m going out with this person because I want to see if they’re *the one*”

    Hopefully these are helpful :)

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Funnily enough, this thing we're going to this weekend involves dinosaurs... :+1:

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  • RickRudeRickRude regular Registered User regular
    Just wanted to poke my head in here and mention that I met a girl just over 3 years ago on tinder. We just found out we're having a baby girl. Sometimes this Internet dating thing works out.

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Congrats!

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    I'll just follow up my thing with "well that didn't bloody well go as planned" and leave it at that :lol: :confused:

  • KyouguKyougu regular Registered User regular
    Has anyone used Match.com?

    I signed up for it since they had a super cheap 6 month offer, and it's pretty much okay but with one big complaint.

    Anyone that I previously liked and messaged still shows up on my discovery queque, and worse if I go to message them from there it doesn't show any previous messages.

    So i'm finding that I'm messaging a woman, get no response, she pops back in my queque and then I message her again, which I have to believe is annoying for her and not a good look on me.

    Anyone know if it can be disabled?

  • jimb213jimb213 regular Registered User regular
    jimb213 wrote: »
    Had a 3rd date on Friday. She actually initiated our first kiss. We have two dates scheduled next week.

    She's stunningly attractive, really smart and cultured, we have lots of the same interests, but different tastes, so we're not just mirror images of each other.

    We met on Bumble, and I almost didn't respond to her message; I was getting pretty burned out with internet dating and was about to take a break. I'm really, really glad I responded.

    We just celebrated the one year anniversary of our first date. Things are going really, really well.

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  • JeanJean Papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    'Sup?

    I got a question, not for myself but rather for a friend of my wife and I.

    She's started an online dating profile and one thing really worry her : What is the correct timing to disclose her health issues? Her condition has improved lately thanks to a change in medication and a reduction in her stress level but her body is still very frail and could fail her at anytime... Her health is the reason she hasn't dated much.

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