Yup. The Cleveland is a bit undergunned so it really should stick to HE against other Clevelands UNLESS you get some REALLY good shots at the broadside. Against lower-tier ships and probably the Aoba, AP should be good at reasonable ranges.
I also found that AP was surprisingly effective against battleships if they let you close to like 5km and give you their full broadside. I mean, it only actually happened once, but I was getting salvos of about 7k damage and just absolutely MELTED that Fuso. No citadels, but a dozen reasonable penetrations every six seconds is still a TON of damage.
Oh, and it's really important to never point your broadside at anybody. The Cleveland's guns have a 300 degree firing arc, so you can fire all of them while facing only thirty degrees off from your target. This makes AP damn near useless against you, reduces your profile against HE, and generally makes you harder to hit in my opinion. Moving AWAY is even better, since that's more travel time for their shots and less for yours.
Less than 9k, and by all parts I mean front, middle and back, along the waterline mostly with a few shells drifting up.
Read an opinion last night (that I agree with) about how the meta is basically screwed because the game rewards damage only, so you basically have to stay alive at all costs. Basically leads to a load of ships tiptoeing around because absolutely nobody wants to go first. You go first, you die and get penalised by the game mechanics.
In addition to this if you die early you're stuck in the game or your ship is on cooldown.
I've had a number of games as a destroyer where I get taken out early for rushing a point that three enemy destroyers headed to and my choices are basically wait doing nothing, and hope my team ends up winning or play another ship while my destroyer isn't useable. Quite frankly I'd rather just head into another game than wait it out for the three cannon hits I managed to get in before getting mauled and the chance that my team wins 15 minutes later.
I can see a cooldown for just quitting the match outright but after you've been sunk? Dumb. I'm already being penalized for losing the xp I'd earn for waiting it out.
So you don't get the victory bonus if you get sunk?
You do.
Xp is based off dmg done, cap points, and some slight bonuses for things like ships sunk,citadels,planes shot. But its mostly dmg. Then a bonus is applied for a win.
Whether you live or die, leave the game or watch to the end has no impact on that.
got a 120k damage 5 kill (about to be 6 but we won) high caliber confederate match in my new york. it only took being the high tier battleship and a bunch of people trying to fight me up close, but hey.
i wonder if the range upgrade is worth it, i've heard it increases your dispersion at all levels, but 14k is really brutal at t5 when you go against ijn bbs.
So you don't get the victory bonus if you get sunk?
In World of Tanks, you get penalized if you kill yourself (almost impossible in World of Warships) or if you leave the game BEFORE you are dead (quitting early).
I don't know if those rules are implemented in World of Warships yet but it is safe to assume at some point they will be.
If you played the match and died, you are free to leave back to port and play another ship without penalty.
You will get the victory bonus if your team wins whether you are in the game or not.
Cooldown on you "ship in battle" also prevents stupid suicidal play. Without cooldown players would drive cheap destroyers straight into other team, spam torpedoes hoping for even one hit, die, get cash, rinse&repeat.
Cooldown on you "ship in battle" also prevents stupid suicidal play. Without cooldown players would drive cheap destroyers straight into other team, spam torpedoes hoping for even one hit, die, get cash, rinse&repeat.
People always say this but
like
players like to win games. You don't need to kick them in the dick for not winning.
Cooldown on you "ship in battle" also prevents stupid suicidal play. Without cooldown players would drive cheap destroyers straight into other team, spam torpedoes hoping for even one hit, die, get cash, rinse&repeat.
People always say this but
like
players like to win games. You don't need to kick them in the dick for not winning.
the reason is to make you play other ships for mm purposes and preventing you from 100% mainline grinding on a ship. it's not the best when you just want to play x, but it's a design choice i understand. it's actually made me branch out into the ijn cruisers in addition to the us line, so i have something else to play when my cleveland gets oneshot.
Cooldown on you "ship in battle" also prevents stupid suicidal play. Without cooldown players would drive cheap destroyers straight into other team, spam torpedoes hoping for even one hit, die, get cash, rinse&repeat.
People always say this but
like
players like to win games. You don't need to kick them in the dick for not winning.
the reason is to make you play other ships for mm purposes and preventing you from 100% mainline grinding on a ship. it's not the best when you just want to play x, but it's a design choice i understand. it's actually made me branch out into the ijn cruisers in addition to the us line, so i have something else to play when my cleveland gets oneshot.
Funny thing is that, suddenly, I no longer feel bad for having four destroyers (two IJN, two USN)
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
0
DietarySupplementStill not approved by the FDADublin, OHRegistered Userregular
Signed in last night after working. Picked my Phoenix. Went into the game, sunk 3 ships (1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, and 1 battleship) and walked away with 2.5k XP.
Signed out right after. Because: you just know it's all downhill from there.
I wish the penalty for losing wasn't so severe; the gulf between the winning XP payout vs losing is really, really disheartening. Because the game is grind-y enough as it is, I don't need a streak of 5 games where I get hit by unavoidable torpedo bombers in my terrible IJN BB to prolong my suffering.
Signed in last night after working. Picked my Phoenix. Went into the game, sunk 3 ships (1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, and 1 battleship) and walked away with 2.5k XP.
Signed out right after. Because: you just know it's all downhill from there.
I wish the penalty for losing wasn't so severe; the gulf between the winning XP payout vs losing is really, really disheartening. Because the game is grind-y enough as it is, I don't need a streak of 5 games where I get hit by unavoidable torpedo bombers in my terrible IJN BB to prolong my suffering.
I like that the game rewards success because it makes success the goal of every player. The game needs as much incentive for teamwork and winning as it is, not sheepish self preserving play.
The penalty does become stupid at higher tiers though. If you don't play perfectly every round, you lose cash. Right now I'm on the verge of just giving up, selling the Colorado and being done with the game because it just isn't worth playing half the time.
Signed in last night after working. Picked my Phoenix. Went into the game, sunk 3 ships (1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, and 1 battleship) and walked away with 2.5k XP.
Signed out right after. Because: you just know it's all downhill from there.
I wish the penalty for losing wasn't so severe; the gulf between the winning XP payout vs losing is really, really disheartening. Because the game is grind-y enough as it is, I don't need a streak of 5 games where I get hit by unavoidable torpedo bombers in my terrible IJN BB to prolong my suffering.
I like that the game rewards success because it makes success the goal of every player. The game needs as much incentive for teamwork and winning as it is, not sheepish self preserving play.
If that is the goal of the current system then it's failed because people who steer in circles at the spawn points, are terrified to come with 5k of a cap zone, and make a 180 at the first sight of enemy ships are still pretty much the norm.
They should make the rewards more dependent on individual performance so that if I go on a tear and sink 4 ships I know I'm going to have something substantial to show for it, instead of being penalized for my teammates' terminal timidity.
The penalty does become stupid at higher tiers though. If you don't play perfectly every round, you lose cash. Right now I'm on the verge of just giving up, selling the Colorado and being done with the game because it just isn't worth playing half the time.
This as much as anything else is why I gave up on World of Tanks. Not the nation imbalance, not the wonky penetration and spotting mechanics, but the fact that the high-tier stuff you grind hundreds and hundreds of games to get it are ridiculous money pits. Unless you are a god-tier player or continuously pay for premium time you lose money just on shells and repairs, and you end up having to keep playing all of your lower-tier stuff just to make enough silver to maintain 1-2 high-tiers.
The reason the higher tiers have problems making a profit is by design so that you spend money on the game for a premium account and to force you to play lower tiers to fund your higher tiers, or just buy premium ships to fund them. That way they get more people paying and more people playing ships other than their top tiers.
I'm not high enough in this game to really test it but in WoT without premium you stopped turning a profit on a standard account around tier 7-8 and with premium you could get around breaking even on tier 10s from what I remember.
I didn't have the pleasure of playing WoT so I didn't have a base to compare against, but if anything it's a mechanism that drives me away from the game rather than encourages me to give them money.
I'll pick on the Colorado again because it's a good example of what I'm talking about. I played up the XP ladder to get here mostly enjoying myself (aside from stock hulls which sucked). At each step the grind got longer but the ships were mostly good so it wasn't too much bother. Then I hit the Colorado which is by most accounts and figures a bad ship for it's tier. I'm staring at a 120k XP wall to get back into something good and added to that is the knowledge that I'll have to grind out the cash to buy the North Carolina on top of that. Even with a premium account it's still a lot of games in a bad ship. Sure I could go off and play another tree, but it's kinda disappointing that the high tier stuff, the ships you look at when you start the game and think "I want to play with that" are stupidly hard to obtain and worse still have maintenance fees to keep them going, which means more grind...
However, think of the increase in silver as much more than 50%. Since your repair costs stay static, your profit per match in silver could increase by double, triple, or even more in some cases.
Makes me not so sad after deciding to give IJN BB's a shot.... wtf 8 km range?
That's only the Kawachi. The myogi has its own weaknesses, but range is not one of them, while the Kongo is pretty mean and features more barrels, increased accuracy and even more insane range.
Overall IJN BBs have at least 3km extra range over their adversaries.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
The problem was the carrier kept hitting the person capping, which takes a good chunk away from the cap time. Our other ships had to rush back to stop the cap on our own base.
I was a tier 3, my friend was a tier 2. Everyone else was 4, 5, and 6. I could maybe see it being fair if the other team had a 2 & 3, or if the 2 & 3 were split. The worst part was the matchmaking happened almost instantly, it didn't even try to find us a better match.
was your t3 friend in a battleship. battleships have a wider mm spread than other ship types, which can cause shennanigans in a group.
wargaming matchmaking is always an uncertain thing, but mixed tier groups are generally kinda dangerous.
Yup, that must have been it. That kind of sucks, I was hoping to rank up battleships because my other two ship types are a few tiers ahead of my friend.
I've seen a tier 2 in a match with tier 10's. Seriously. We didn't even get the chance to horribly murder him, since someone on the other team went on a teamkilling rampage.
I don't think the matchmaker can handle divisions at all. I think it just looks at the highest tier ship and rolls from there (either that or the guy who formed the division, not sure). They really ought to come up with a better solution.
Wargaming has never bothered to take fail divisions/platoons into account. If you play with different tiers, you'll screw over your team, unless you're very lucky.
Just don't do it. There's no reason for them to take it into account. If two tier 3s and a tier 5 division up, you'll get into the exact same kind of matchmaking 3 x tier 5s would, without compensation on the enemy team.
0
DietarySupplementStill not approved by the FDADublin, OHRegistered Userregular
I don't think it solely takes tier into account when match making; I'm willing to bet your ships "scores" factor in; for example when I first starting using the St Louis I was almost always in T2-4 games, but once I started upgrading, I was in more T5 - 6 matches.
So I'm in my battleship and our team gets slaughtered. I had been sniping and was at full health, but it was down to just me vs the enemy team that still had a destroyer, 3 cruisers, and 2 battleships. Almost all of them were on the capture point.
I steam around an island, and there's the cruisers and a BS sitting still less than 3km away. I open up with armor piercing on the sitting ducks. Citadel hit, blow one cruiser out of the water. Secondaries are hammering another when the destroyer pops up and starts turning for a torpedo launch. A quick swivel and single salvo obliterates the destroyer. Swivel back to start trading broadsides with the 2nd cruiser less than 2k away, the 3rd cruiser (at low health) is just now starting to move. The range is so close I don't even need the binocular view anymore. A broadside to the 2nd cruiser as it brushes right past me citadels and destroys it. Ten seconds later, the third cruiser is T-bone rammed and sunk.
At this point I'm low on health with multiple fires raging. There's still one enemy battleship on the point and another far off firing at me. I actually have to zoom out a little because all the fire and smoke was obscuring my vision. I turn to angle on the battleship and start blasting it.
General chat:
"WITNESS ME!"
Someone actually replies "Witness!", followed by half a dozen "BANZAI!"s.
2 salvos, 2 citadels, sinking the battleship!
At that point the other battleship finally killed me and the enemy team won
The entire time the Flash Gordan movie theme was playing in my head (if you've seen the movie, you know the applicable end scene in the ship).
Note to self: do not play T6's in the morning. Matchmaking continuously screwed me putting me in T8-9 games where I was always the lowest tier. It's hilariously awful trying to play my New Mexico on the Arctic map with a range of 14.9km vs Amagis, Nagatos, and Iowas, all while 4 T8-9 destroyers dance between the icebergs creating a literal wall of torpedos.
Posts
I also found that AP was surprisingly effective against battleships if they let you close to like 5km and give you their full broadside. I mean, it only actually happened once, but I was getting salvos of about 7k damage and just absolutely MELTED that Fuso. No citadels, but a dozen reasonable penetrations every six seconds is still a TON of damage.
Oh, and it's really important to never point your broadside at anybody. The Cleveland's guns have a 300 degree firing arc, so you can fire all of them while facing only thirty degrees off from your target. This makes AP damn near useless against you, reduces your profile against HE, and generally makes you harder to hit in my opinion. Moving AWAY is even better, since that's more travel time for their shots and less for yours.
In addition to this if you die early you're stuck in the game or your ship is on cooldown.
I've had a number of games as a destroyer where I get taken out early for rushing a point that three enemy destroyers headed to and my choices are basically wait doing nothing, and hope my team ends up winning or play another ship while my destroyer isn't useable. Quite frankly I'd rather just head into another game than wait it out for the three cannon hits I managed to get in before getting mauled and the chance that my team wins 15 minutes later.
I can see a cooldown for just quitting the match outright but after you've been sunk? Dumb. I'm already being penalized for losing the xp I'd earn for waiting it out.
You get zero xp for leaving don't you?
no, you get the full silver/xp if you leave after your dead as you would if you stuck it out and watched it.
the only downside to death is that you can't use that ship until the game is done.
it's a system that encourages people to requeue right away after death with a new ship to keep more people playing and vary up the tiers.
You do.
Xp is based off dmg done, cap points, and some slight bonuses for things like ships sunk,citadels,planes shot. But its mostly dmg. Then a bonus is applied for a win.
Whether you live or die, leave the game or watch to the end has no impact on that.
got a 120k damage 5 kill (about to be 6 but we won) high caliber confederate match in my new york. it only took being the high tier battleship and a bunch of people trying to fight me up close, but hey.
i wonder if the range upgrade is worth it, i've heard it increases your dispersion at all levels, but 14k is really brutal at t5 when you go against ijn bbs.
I still maintain the cooldown is dumb given thousands upon thousands of players but good to know.
In World of Tanks, you get penalized if you kill yourself (almost impossible in World of Warships) or if you leave the game BEFORE you are dead (quitting early).
I don't know if those rules are implemented in World of Warships yet but it is safe to assume at some point they will be.
If you played the match and died, you are free to leave back to port and play another ship without penalty.
You will get the victory bonus if your team wins whether you are in the game or not.
Hopefully that clears up the confusion a bit?
People always say this but
like
players like to win games. You don't need to kick them in the dick for not winning.
the reason is to make you play other ships for mm purposes and preventing you from 100% mainline grinding on a ship. it's not the best when you just want to play x, but it's a design choice i understand. it's actually made me branch out into the ijn cruisers in addition to the us line, so i have something else to play when my cleveland gets oneshot.
Funny thing is that, suddenly, I no longer feel bad for having four destroyers (two IJN, two USN)
Signed out right after. Because: you just know it's all downhill from there.
I wish the penalty for losing wasn't so severe; the gulf between the winning XP payout vs losing is really, really disheartening. Because the game is grind-y enough as it is, I don't need a streak of 5 games where I get hit by unavoidable torpedo bombers in my terrible IJN BB to prolong my suffering.
I like that the game rewards success because it makes success the goal of every player. The game needs as much incentive for teamwork and winning as it is, not sheepish self preserving play.
If that is the goal of the current system then it's failed because people who steer in circles at the spawn points, are terrified to come with 5k of a cap zone, and make a 180 at the first sight of enemy ships are still pretty much the norm.
They should make the rewards more dependent on individual performance so that if I go on a tear and sink 4 ships I know I'm going to have something substantial to show for it, instead of being penalized for my teammates' terminal timidity.
This as much as anything else is why I gave up on World of Tanks. Not the nation imbalance, not the wonky penetration and spotting mechanics, but the fact that the high-tier stuff you grind hundreds and hundreds of games to get it are ridiculous money pits. Unless you are a god-tier player or continuously pay for premium time you lose money just on shells and repairs, and you end up having to keep playing all of your lower-tier stuff just to make enough silver to maintain 1-2 high-tiers.
I'm not high enough in this game to really test it but in WoT without premium you stopped turning a profit on a standard account around tier 7-8 and with premium you could get around breaking even on tier 10s from what I remember.
I'll pick on the Colorado again because it's a good example of what I'm talking about. I played up the XP ladder to get here mostly enjoying myself (aside from stock hulls which sucked). At each step the grind got longer but the ships were mostly good so it wasn't too much bother. Then I hit the Colorado which is by most accounts and figures a bad ship for it's tier. I'm staring at a 120k XP wall to get back into something good and added to that is the knowledge that I'll have to grind out the cash to buy the North Carolina on top of that. Even with a premium account it's still a lot of games in a bad ship. Sure I could go off and play another tree, but it's kinda disappointing that the high tier stuff, the ships you look at when you start the game and think "I want to play with that" are stupidly hard to obtain and worse still have maintenance fees to keep them going, which means more grind...
What exactly does premium time do? Double silver/xp?
1.5X
Damn I do love the Omaha.
Makes me not so sad after deciding to give IJN BB's a shot.... wtf 8 km range?
― John Quincy Adams
That's only the Kawachi. The myogi has its own weaknesses, but range is not one of them, while the Kongo is pretty mean and features more barrels, increased accuracy and even more insane range.
Overall IJN BBs have at least 3km extra range over their adversaries.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Edit: other silly things - being tier 2 in a game with tier 6s
wargaming matchmaking is always an uncertain thing, but mixed tier groups are generally kinda dangerous.
Yup, that must have been it. That kind of sucks, I was hoping to rank up battleships because my other two ship types are a few tiers ahead of my friend.
I don't think the matchmaker can handle divisions at all. I think it just looks at the highest tier ship and rolls from there (either that or the guy who formed the division, not sure). They really ought to come up with a better solution.
Just don't do it. There's no reason for them to take it into account. If two tier 3s and a tier 5 division up, you'll get into the exact same kind of matchmaking 3 x tier 5s would, without compensation on the enemy team.
Anecdotal, of course.
So I'm in my battleship and our team gets slaughtered. I had been sniping and was at full health, but it was down to just me vs the enemy team that still had a destroyer, 3 cruisers, and 2 battleships. Almost all of them were on the capture point.
I steam around an island, and there's the cruisers and a BS sitting still less than 3km away. I open up with armor piercing on the sitting ducks. Citadel hit, blow one cruiser out of the water. Secondaries are hammering another when the destroyer pops up and starts turning for a torpedo launch. A quick swivel and single salvo obliterates the destroyer. Swivel back to start trading broadsides with the 2nd cruiser less than 2k away, the 3rd cruiser (at low health) is just now starting to move. The range is so close I don't even need the binocular view anymore. A broadside to the 2nd cruiser as it brushes right past me citadels and destroys it. Ten seconds later, the third cruiser is T-bone rammed and sunk.
At this point I'm low on health with multiple fires raging. There's still one enemy battleship on the point and another far off firing at me. I actually have to zoom out a little because all the fire and smoke was obscuring my vision. I turn to angle on the battleship and start blasting it.
General chat:
"WITNESS ME!"
Someone actually replies "Witness!", followed by half a dozen "BANZAI!"s.
2 salvos, 2 citadels, sinking the battleship!
At that point the other battleship finally killed me and the enemy team won
The entire time the Flash Gordan movie theme was playing in my head (if you've seen the movie, you know the applicable end scene in the ship).