Though with WoW there was priority systems and not set rotations where if you screw up once your DPS is fucked. Also they're taking efforts to combat button bloat.
FFXIV very much uses a priority system as well, which has become even more pronounced with 3.0
I'm 52 with my DRG and I have no priority system, it's a specific and very long rotation optimized around cooldown timers. One screwup and DPS gets a shot to the foot. This might change as I get to 60, and I hope it does.
Man, I have to admit, being locked up in a garrison for the last year has really made me miss chatty guildies and a nice open world with a wonderful score to play in. I'm still not sold on the slowbie combat and endless level grind, but I think I might drift this way just casually (and happily).
The nice thing about the combat is that it really grows into it's own as you get more and more abilities. It's designed primarily at first to not overwhelm players brand new to MMOS and by the time you hit 50 and have a bunch of stuff it's very intuitive and the moves are beautifully animated and have real weight to them.
Let's also not forget that by level 50, and certainly by level 60, the combat system is one of the most complicated, ability bloated, millisecond precision required, latency dependent bullshit that's ever been in an MMO.
I do not share that opinion at all. Thus far at 60 I haven't found it overly complicated or bloated at all, you typically have a small core set of abilities and the rest are woven off GCD, are on long cooldowns, or are used in more niche situations. The system is also designed off a queue to account for latency provided you aren't using macros so it's pretty forgiving even in that regard (excluding Ninja Mudra BS)
I do agree that at high levels it does require a lot of precision to maximize your Job potential and managing that while dealing with game mechanics is where you really see the skill, but at a core level it's pretty straightforward imo.
Certain jobs do have a higher skill ceiling than others I would say, though all Jobs can be managed at a basic level pretty easily.
Yea I mean you can easily play this game with a controller.
I think that says a lot about all these factors.
Yup, however I will admit that I feel players using a controller are more affected by the number of abilities than Keyboard users are. I've heard some people talking about how difficult it is to get everything they want on the cross bar, is that still the case at 60?
I was probably one of the people you heard from. It was never a space issue, just a layout issue. The DRG combos used to be 3-part with a single pre-combo ability, so I had the full combo on a single set of face buttons. So now I have my combo finishers on R2>L2, which works pretty well.
Also I've never found latency to be the thing limiting my DPS. Missing a positional, hitting the wrong button, blowing a panic Gierskogul and dropping BotD, these are the things I'm learning to avoid, and it's wholly dependent on my own skill.
Though with WoW there was priority systems and not set rotations where if you screw up once your DPS is fucked. Also they're taking efforts to combat button bloat.
FFXIV very much uses a priority system as well, which has become even more pronounced with 3.0
I'm 52 with my DRG and I have no priority system, it's a specific and very long rotation optimized around cooldown timers. One screwup and DPS gets a shot to the foot. This might change as I get to 60, and I hope it does.
It does change, but mainly it's because bosses at 60 have a lot more mechanical things to do or AOEs to dodge. It becomes nearly impossible to hit perfect DPS, meaning you have a lot of opportunities to recover.
I swear, Oppressor flies off the fucking screen right before my combo finisher a good 50% of the time.
Now if you're dummy parsing, yeah, you're still on the exact same kind of optimized rotation as before, with the minor hiccup of having to change position for whichever combo finisher you get.
Yeah I'm not super familiar with other classes, but when it comes to Dragoon we're rock solid into a 'rotation'. Even our jumps have been pulled into a new, third rotation to manage.
I think something like Monk is more like a priority system, right? John Fucking Madden and all that?
Bards are definitely very much a priority system.
Start with Straight Shot. Keep it maintained, use it whenever it lights up.
Put up your DoTs, maintain them, refresh with Iron Jaws just before they fall off.
Use Empyreal Arrow whenever it's off CD (paired with Barrage when possible).
Any remaining GCDs are filled by Heavy Shot.
Use Blood Letter any time it's off CD.
Blunt Arrow, Repelling Shot, and Sidewinder used whenever they're up unless they're being saved for a particular burn phase or silence/movement.
this game is definitely suffering from ability bloat. 5 new abilities from 50-60 was too many for a lot of classes. that's what I like about the ninja HW abilities: you only get one new one for your rotation and it replaces an old part of your rotation that sucked anyway.
I haven't played in months, but I'm keenly interested in machinist rotations and the issues the job is dealing with and find myself reading thread after thread.
Though with WoW there was priority systems and not set rotations where if you screw up once your DPS is fucked. Also they're taking efforts to combat button bloat.
FFXIV very much uses a priority system as well, which has become even more pronounced with 3.0
I'm 52 with my DRG and I have no priority system, it's a specific and very long rotation optimized around cooldown timers. One screwup and DPS gets a shot to the foot. This might change as I get to 60, and I hope it does.
Eh the Dragoon at 50 is not really a rotation though, the reason it's so silly and long is precisely because it's just a priority system that someone played out into an ideal "rotation" (Or more precisely an "opener"). Dragoon has a few key elements in doing it's DPS, your Self Buff, your DoT rotation, and your filler rotation. The priority is in that order as well, buff yourself, apply your DoTs, use your filler rotation when the above two are ticking, beyond that you weave in your off GCDs in between your main GCDs as you execute that system. (The Off GCDs have their own priorities as well)
It does change considerably as you get closer to 60 (from what I've been told by the Dragoon in our static), but in any real fight you are far better off viewing it as that priority system, it will allow you to be far more adaptive in the fight and you'll end up getting more DPS than trying to stick rigidly to the "rotation", especially given how the fights tend to be broken up and how you often need to hold Cooldowns for burst in sections, withhold DoTs when the boss is about to jump/become invulnerable, or adjust to account for dodging of mechanics, etc.
The same holds true for pretty much every Job, you typically have core concepts you want to execute based on the situation you are given. How you handle a single target is different from 2 targets, and from 3 targets. Even within a single target how you DPS differs wildly based on the phases and movements of that target and the overall mechanics of the fight. What people often refer to as the "rotation" for a DPS class is often actually the opener designed to maximize DPS for GCDs spent in the open of a fight when the target is far less likely to be engaging in mechanics (It is also to take advantage of party buffs and debuffs on the target typically used in the opening of a fight).
Once you get past the opener though you'll want to adjust your play to suit the fight and make decisions based on the priorities of your Job. Summoner for example at 60 has a very long complicated opening "rotation" that flies right out the window once you have to start dealing with mechanics, at which point you focus on Keeping DoTs up, managing Pet abilities, timing your DWT with burn phases, or making sure you save Aetherflow for Add phases, etc.
The only Job I'm not sure if this applies to is Monk as I've only gotten Pugilist to 26ish (Just not really my style). I would assume this is the case as well, but I haven't personally researched Monk or played it myself like the other DPS classes so I won't presume that to be true, i'll let someone else chime in on that.
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Delph nailed it. I was tempted to build a site where people could submit and compare their parses for specific fights. The problem was that it would rely on user-submitted data. No one is going to submit their bad parses, PS4 players can't parse at all, and even anonymized I'm afraid it'll turn into a huge dick-measuring contest.
Still, when I pull 800 in A1 and all I have to compare it to is someone's 1200 DPS dummy parse, that's not terribly helpful. I know I'll never be in the top 5% of DPS, but when only the best are posting their parses it's hard to set meaningful goals for yourself. "Do better next time" is the only mantra.
Delph nailed it. I was tempted to build a site where people could submit and compare their parses for specific fights. The problem was that it would rely on user-submitted data. No one is going to submit their bad parses, PS4 players can't parse at all, and even anonymized I'm afraid it'll turn into a huge dick-measuring contest.
Still, when I pull 800 in A1 and all I have to compare it to is someone's 1200 DPS dummy parse, that's not terribly helpful. I know I'll never be in the top 5% of DPS, but when only the best are posting their parses it's hard to set meaningful goals for yourself. "Do better next time" is the only mantra.
While numbers are good what I find myself doing most of all is re-examining a fight every time I do it. Each time I am comparing what I'm doing with what I did last time and trying to figure out where I can adjust to sneak in a GCD here, or holding some abilities at X point so I can really maximize them at Y, etc. Having a parser to sort of "check my work" and see if it's a gain or loss is good though.
There are a lot of factors that go into maximizing your DPS that are often out of your control as well, if someone dies in a fight I'll typically swiftcast+res them (more os now that my MP issues are more stable than healers), now that Swiftcast isn't available for Shadowflare like I would have normally so I end up losing DPS. Ravana Extreme is a good example with the Add phase as well, I need to focus on burst during that phase but the butterflies have just enough HP that I can't rely solely on ruin spam and too little HP for me to throw DoTs up on each one. But if they happen to be near the Boss I can Bane DoTs over which is a nice boost to my numbers, otherwise I take a pretty big loss there as I burn Aetherflow inefficiently to make sure they die in time by using Tri-disaster+Fester on the Moon Butterfly.
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I'm not really sure Self-Buff>Dots>Stabby-Combo is somehow not a rotation. Other than keeping an eye on the damage buff and watching my dots tick I go through just about the same flow in every fight. That flow can be broken but as soon as I'm able the buff is refreshed, the dots renewed and the stabbity begins anew.
Really the sheer fact that the game has a combo system at all is what makes me believe there are indeed rotations. I'm not going to hit Disembowel, Chaos Thrust and THEN Impulse Drive. It must always be ID>DM>CT which then leads into TT>VT>FT at least twice until my self buff and Phleb are about to fall off.
Delph nailed it. I was tempted to build a site where people could submit and compare their parses for specific fights. The problem was that it would rely on user-submitted data. No one is going to submit their bad parses, PS4 players can't parse at all, and even anonymized I'm afraid it'll turn into a huge dick-measuring contest.
Still, when I pull 800 in A1 and all I have to compare it to is someone's 1200 DPS dummy parse, that's not terribly helpful. I know I'll never be in the top 5% of DPS, but when only the best are posting their parses it's hard to set meaningful goals for yourself. "Do better next time" is the only mantra.
While numbers are good what I find myself doing most of all is re-examining a fight every time I do it. Each time I am comparing what I'm doing with what I did last time and trying to figure out where I can adjust to sneak in a GCD here, or holding some abilities at X point so I can really maximize them at Y, etc. Having a parser to sort of "check my work" and see if it's a gain or loss is good though.
There are a lot of factors that go into maximizing your DPS that are often out of your control as well, if someone dies in a fight I'll typically swiftcast+res them (more os now that my MP issues are more stable than healers), now that Swiftcast isn't available for Shadowflare like I would have normally so I end up losing DPS. Ravana Extreme is a good example with the Add phase as well, I need to focus on burst during that phase but the butterflies have just enough HP that I can't rely solely on ruin spam and too little HP for me to throw DoTs up on each one. But if they happen to be near the Boss I can Bane DoTs over which is a nice boost to my numbers, otherwise I take a pretty big loss there as I burn Aetherflow inefficiently to make sure they die in time by using Tri-disaster+Fester on the Moon Butterfly.
I like doing the bold myself when tanking, if I can examine a fights mechanics, I can know where the tricks lie.
How long do I actually have before I need to move? Where is it best to tank the boss? Should I stay put or drag it all over creation? (usually No to that last one)
I especially love the last fight of Fractal Continuum because the combination of mechanics can change the best tanking point of the boss during the course of the fight.
I'm not really sure Self-Buff>Dots>Stabby-Combo isn't somehow not a rotation. Other than keeping an eye on the damage buff and watching my dots tick I go through just about the same flow in every fight. That flow can be broken but as soon as I'm able the buff is refreshed, the dots renewed and the stabbity begins anew.
Really the sheer fact that the game has a combo system at all is what makes me believe there are indeed rotations. I'm not going to hit Disembowel, Chaos Thrust and THEN Impulse Drive. It must always be ID>DM>CT which then leads into TT>VT>FT at least twice until my self buff and Phleb are about to fall off.
There are rotations within the system because the combos necessitate it but the system itself is not one. The reason you do self buffs first is to boost the potency of your abilties, this is why it has a higher priority than everything else, then DoTs need to be applied in advance to get full duration benefits, so they are second priority, then of course filler damage is last. You are correct in that this establishes an ideal order, but that only holds true on a training dummy scenario or in openers.
In a fight for instance you wouldn't apply your DoTs right before the boss jumps, or your long cooldown buffs for that matter, that would be a loss of DPS, so the order changes. You also wouldn't use your full DoT combo on an AoE pack of mobs, so that changes it as well.
Because the fights are so situational and how your DPS is dictated largely by them it doesn't make sense to focus so heavily on a super long string of abilities in a rotation. Instead you break it down into parts, and assign to those priorities, so at any given point in the fight you can asses what is more important and focus on that. Sometimes you'll want to repeat your filler combo instead of popping a buff because you want to save your buffs for a big burn phase coming up. You sort of need to view each combo as it's own complete package, since as you mention you are never going to want to execute them out of order, but the order in which you use the combo as a whole withing the DPS system as a whole will change often based on what the fight dictates.
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Still not agreeing with you, as in other games the mechanics of a fight can also make you have to break rotation. It isn't anything new with FFXIV. As for the AoE pack thing... It depends? Being a Dragoon I really don't have strong AoE capabilities, and normally I just go through my single target rotation to help speed the killing along. It's rare that spamming Doom Spike is worth it.
My kingdom for the ability to increase the size of my buffs and DoT's. Every time I need to glance up to see time remaining on Blood For Blood and Heavy Thrust is another second less I have to get out of the glowing circle that just appeared beneath me.
It's something I do miss about some other games. I suppose you could configure the UI somewhat in the center, for your character and target, so you can clearly see your buffs and debuffs but then you got the problem of it being very cluttered.
Still not agreeing with you, as in other games the mechanics of a fight can also make you have to break rotation. It isn't anything new with FFXIV. As for the AoE pack thing... It depends? Being a Dragoon I really don't have strong AoE capabilities, and normally I just go through my single target rotation to help speed the killing along. It's rare that spamming Doom Spike is worth it.
Dragoon Aoe is VERY capable though and depending on size of the pack you'll get far more bang for buck with the AoE abilities than focusing on a single target in the pack. Our Dragoon regularly utilizes his AoE abilities on packs and pulls some very impressive numbers in doing so. Obviously you need to factor in TP and not completely deplete yourself in doing so (unless the fight calls for it) but for more often than not it is absolutely worth it.
This holds true for pretty much all the DPS classes, you typically want to compare the potency/GCD of your single target abilities (even within a combo) vs the potency/GCD per target of the AoE abilities to decide whether it's worth it to use them in any given situation. If an AoE ability does 100 potency per target and your single target ability does 280 for instance, the second you can hit three targets with your AoE ability it becomes a better use for that GCD than the single target ability, and it only goes up from there with each additional target hit. (Of course you need to weigh this against TP/MP use as well)
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+4
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Does the content after Praetorium get smarter about where to place the cutscenes?
Becuase I felt super guilty trying to watch them in that last dungeon that I just ended up skipping them since apparently they're pretty long.
Which is a shame, I love the story and prefer not having to go back and look through the lil book at the inn.
My kingdom for the ability to increase the size of my buffs and DoT's. Every time I need to glance up to see time remaining on Blood For Blood and Heavy Thrust is another second less I have to get out of the glowing circle that just appeared beneath me.
I'll bring this up, but maybe you already knew if you edit your hud you can do ctrl+home and it scales up that bar. I have a bar 6 or 7 set to max size, vertically, with about 6 of my Bard cooldowns.
Edit: Opps, you said buffs/debuffs. Sorry! You can increase that bar size too though.
Does the content after Praetorium get smarter about where to place the cutscenes?
Becuase I felt super guilty trying to watch them in that last dungeon that I just ended up skipping them since apparently they're pretty long.
Which is a shame, I love the story and prefer not having to go back and look through the lil book at the inn.
Yes! The new content is much better about not having long cutscenes midway through encounters. There is still a bit of that but they've gotten far better at it (largely i'd wager in response to Castrum Meridian and Preatorium complaints)
What they do primarily now is have cutscenes at the beginning (where noone can proceed until everyone is done) and at the end (where people can leave if they don't want to wait)
As Madican says below though you shouldn't feel bad for watching cutscenes at all, don't let players pressure you into skipping them, that's very rude of them to do so.
Delphinidaes on
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Does the content after Praetorium get smarter about where to place the cutscenes?
Becuase I felt super guilty trying to watch them in that last dungeon that I just ended up skipping them since apparently they're pretty long.
Which is a shame, I love the story and prefer not having to go back and look through the lil book at the inn.
Just watch the cutscenes. Most groups will just bulldoze everything and won't need your assistance. If they do? Then they'll learn to wait.
FFXIV is an MMO but it is story-driven in a very heavy manner. I for one will not skip any cutscene the first time I see it. It's part of the story and I am going to experience that story.
I have aoe as a ninja too, but there's no way melee aoes compare to blm/summoner. they eat lots of tp or have long cooldowns while blm can spam aoe indefinitely
+1
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Does the content after Praetorium get smarter about where to place the cutscenes?
Becuase I felt super guilty trying to watch them in that last dungeon that I just ended up skipping them since apparently they're pretty long.
Which is a shame, I love the story and prefer not having to go back and look through the lil book at the inn.
Yes! The new content is much better about not having long cutscenes midway through encounters. There is still a bit of that but they've gotten far better at it (largely i'd wager in response to Castrum Meridian and Preatorium complaints)
What they do primarily now is have cutscenes at the beginning (where noone can proceed until everyone is done) and at the end (where people can leave if they don't want to wait)
As Madican says below though you shouldn't feel bad for watching cutscenes at all, don't let players pressure you into skipping them, that's very rude of them to do so.
Does the content after Praetorium get smarter about where to place the cutscenes?
Becuase I felt super guilty trying to watch them in that last dungeon that I just ended up skipping them since apparently they're pretty long.
Which is a shame, I love the story and prefer not having to go back and look through the lil book at the inn.
Just watch the cutscenes. Most groups will just bulldoze everything and won't need your assistance. If they do? Then they'll learn to wait.
FFXIV is an MMO but it is story-driven in a very heavy manner. I for one will not skip any cutscene the first time I see it. It's part of the story and I am going to experience that story.
Thank you for saying that.
Usually I'm all prepped and ready to go and say "fuck it, I've never seen this before and I'm going to watch it. They can kick me if they need to rush" but then once I'm actually there, I turn into a timid coward and my voice starts to break like Jeremy Freedman from the Simpsons.
Yeah, you're wrong if you think Dragoon's can't AOE.
Yes but numbers are a far more effective way of illustrating that!
For instance here is the breakdown of 8 GCDs of Doomspike spam rotation (HT-RoT-DS-DS-DS) and how it varies in potency per hit and targets hit (pre-3.0 numbers here)
2 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 2) + (((160 x 1.15) x 2) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 340.38 potency per hit
3 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 3) + (((160 x 1.15) x 3) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 499.94 potency per hit
4 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 4) + (((160 x 1.15) x 4) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 659.5 potency per hit
5 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 5) + (((160 x 1.15) x 5) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 819.06 potency per hit
6 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 6) + (((160 x 1.15) x 6) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 978.63 potency per hit
7 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 7) + (((160 x 1.15) x 7) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 1138.19 potency per hit
Compared to a HT > RoT spam rotation designed to conserve TP! (also pre-3.0)
2 targets: ((170 + (150 x 2)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 270.25 potency per hit
3 targets: ((170 + (150 x 3)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 356.5 potency per hit
4 targets: ((170 + (150 x 4)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 442.75 potency per hit
5 targets: ((170 + (150 x 5)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 529 potency per hit
6 targets: ((170 + (150 x 6)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 615.25 potency per hit
7 targets: ((170 + (150 x 7)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 701.5 potency per hit
Which is some disgusting Potency per hit honestly. First setup will drain your TP in 25 seconds though but your targets will likely be long dead by then. You can also notice that even at 2 targets we're talking 340 potency per hit which is typically higher than even a full combo potency on a single target.
Same thing goes for Ninja, even though Death Lotus is only 100 potency, when couple with Kassatsu+Doton Ninja puts out some very impressive AoE dps!
I have no idea what Monks do but they pull some very impressive AoE numbers as well. I just assume TnT is a wizard in those instances.
Delphinidaes on
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My monk does Arm of the Destroyer -> Twin Snakes -> RockBreaker, Putting in Howling Gale (is that the right name?) whenever it's up. It wrecks my TP however, and I haven't mathed it out.
I have aoe as a ninja too, but there's no way melee aoes compare to blm/summoner. they eat lots of tp or have long cooldowns while blm can spam aoe indefinitely
This is very true, but it doesn't mean you don't AoE in AoE situations, It is almost always a net DPS loss to use single target GCD abilities in any situation involving 3 or more targets and sometimes even 2 or more targets. (Off GCD is fine of course woven in between AoE abilities)
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DRG's actually have really good AoE DPS, and can be almost equal to BLM in ideal situations. Just counting normal buffs for each job (Heavy Thrust+B4B on DRG, AF3+Enochain+Raging on BLM) makes Doomspike/Fire 2 pretty even in terms of PPS. It's true that if a fight goes on for too long, BLM will easily overtake the DRG due to TP issues, but I don't really see that happen often. I might just be lucky and have EX roulettes with decent DPS lol.
In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
TL;DR DRG AoE is the bees knees and just use your own parse numbers to try and help yourself instead of worrying about whether or not you're up to snuff compared to others
DRG's actually have really good AoE DPS, and can be almost equal to BLM in ideal situations. Just counting normal buffs for each job (Heavy Thrust+B4B on DRG, AF3+Enochain+Raging on BLM) makes Doomspike/Fire 2 pretty even in terms of PPS. It's true that if a fight goes on for too long, BLM will easily overtake the DRG due to TP issues, but I don't really see that happen often. I might just be lucky and have EX roulettes with decent DPS lol.
In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
My monk does Arm of the Destroyer -> Twin Snakes -> RockBreaker, Putting in Howling Gale (is that the right name?) whenever it's up. It wrecks my TP however, and I haven't mathed it out.
Use Dragon Kick over Arm of the Destroyer and tab over to the a mob after Rock Breaker. AoD needs to hit like 4 or 5 mobs to be marginal dps gain for twice the tp and dragon kicks debuff is super useful if magic damage is going out. Use Perfect Balance to spam Rock Breaker and cross class Bloodbath to heal up while you ignore aoes and make bad players report you for cheating cause your hp bar keeps going to 100% as soon as you take damage.
My monk does Arm of the Destroyer -> Twin Snakes -> RockBreaker, Putting in Howling Gale (is that the right name?) whenever it's up. It wrecks my TP however, and I haven't mathed it out.
Use Dragon Kick over Arm of the Destroyer and tab over to the a mob after Rock Breaker. AoD needs to hit like 4 or 5 mobs to be marginal dps gain for twice the tp and dragon kicks debuff is super useful if magic damage is going out. Use Perfect Balance to spam Rock Breaker and cross class Bloodbath to heal up while you ignore aoes and make bad players report you for cheating cause your hp bar keeps going to 100% as soon as you take damage.
I don't know those Monk ability names or exactly they do because I"m not leveled high enough. (monk level is at 33.) But your description excites me.
I love how DPS in this game works. It makes them fun to level and play for me. That and not needing to roll a brand new character whenever I want to play around with a dps class is just the best.
My monk does Arm of the Destroyer -> Twin Snakes -> RockBreaker, Putting in Howling Gale (is that the right name?) whenever it's up. It wrecks my TP however, and I haven't mathed it out.
Magic spellcasting or something
I should probably work on getting Pugilist up and by extension Monk, but it'll probably be the last thing I do after I get all the other classes to 60 (by then there may be another expansion and more jobs!)
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0
IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
And here I am with my almost-30 GLD, wondering how I'm supposed to manage enough abilities to stretch across two hotbars.
So which attack rotation should I be using solo at this point?
-Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone?
-Savage Blade > Rage of Halone?
-Fast Blade > Riot Blade?
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DRG's actually have really good AoE DPS, and can be almost equal to BLM in ideal situations. Just counting normal buffs for each job (Heavy Thrust+B4B on DRG, AF3+Enochain+Raging on BLM) makes Doomspike/Fire 2 pretty even in terms of PPS. It's true that if a fight goes on for too long, BLM will easily overtake the DRG due to TP issues, but I don't really see that happen often. I might just be lucky and have EX roulettes with decent DPS lol.
In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
Wait, uhhh what?
Oops, I was thinking of the mini boss for that part lol. Still, the point is faster kills sometimes means "lower" DPS.... muh bad. Although something else that should be mentioned, it's "easy" to inflate DPS numbers on that fight by switching back and forth between each oppressor, getting off all your DoTs and such.
DRG's actually have really good AoE DPS, and can be almost equal to BLM in ideal situations. Just counting normal buffs for each job (Heavy Thrust+B4B on DRG, AF3+Enochain+Raging on BLM) makes Doomspike/Fire 2 pretty even in terms of PPS. It's true that if a fight goes on for too long, BLM will easily overtake the DRG due to TP issues, but I don't really see that happen often. I might just be lucky and have EX roulettes with decent DPS lol.
In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
Wait, uhhh what?
Oops, I was thinking of the mini boss for that part lol. Still, the point is faster kills sometimes means "lower" DPS.... muh bad. Although something else that should be mentioned, it's "easy" to inflate DPS numbers on that fight by switching back and forth between each oppressor, getting off all your DoTs and such.
As a summoner we call that playing normally
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DRG's actually have really good AoE DPS, and can be almost equal to BLM in ideal situations. Just counting normal buffs for each job (Heavy Thrust+B4B on DRG, AF3+Enochain+Raging on BLM) makes Doomspike/Fire 2 pretty even in terms of PPS. It's true that if a fight goes on for too long, BLM will easily overtake the DRG due to TP issues, but I don't really see that happen often. I might just be lucky and have EX roulettes with decent DPS lol.
In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
Wait, uhhh what?
Oops, I was thinking of the mini boss for that part lol. Still, the point is faster kills sometimes means "lower" DPS.... muh bad. Although something else that should be mentioned, it's "easy" to inflate DPS numbers on that fight by switching back and forth between each oppressor, getting off all your DoTs and such.
As a summoner we call that playing normally
i cry everytim i c smn dps on floor 2 compared to mine ; (
DRG's actually have really good AoE DPS, and can be almost equal to BLM in ideal situations. Just counting normal buffs for each job (Heavy Thrust+B4B on DRG, AF3+Enochain+Raging on BLM) makes Doomspike/Fire 2 pretty even in terms of PPS. It's true that if a fight goes on for too long, BLM will easily overtake the DRG due to TP issues, but I don't really see that happen often. I might just be lucky and have EX roulettes with decent DPS lol.
In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
Wait, uhhh what?
Oops, I was thinking of the mini boss for that part lol. Still, the point is faster kills sometimes means "lower" DPS.... muh bad. Although something else that should be mentioned, it's "easy" to inflate DPS numbers on that fight by switching back and forth between each oppressor, getting off all your DoTs and such.
As a summoner we call that playing normally
i cry everytim i c smn dps on floor 2 compared to mine ; (
Oh man I love that fight, it's especially funny in DF when we get to the boss and the Tank says "Ok we should put the SMN in the robot"
A quick explanation about the concept of AoE usually dispels that particular notion, as well as ending the fight 400 DPS up on the next highest DPS.
My favorite reaction was to a Deathflare Crit on a 5 stack vulnerability mob for 6500 damage. Some guy in the party pointed it out and was pretty impressed.
Delphinidaes on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
And here I am with my almost-30 GLD, wondering how I'm supposed to manage enough abilities to stretch across two hotbars.
So which attack rotation should I be using solo at this point?
-Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone?
-Savage Blade > Rage of Halone?
-Fast Blade > Riot Blade?
Option 1 is highest dps.
Option 2 isn't even an option.
Option 3 is for getting back MP which is almost never a thing solo (other then doing some janky soloing fate bosses where you have to cast cure a lot and live forever)
Guess I need to get that combat program so I can see my numbers, since currently I only know I'm bombing on DPS when I screw up the rotation (Wait shit no not Vorpal Thrust I had Chaos ready!)
Posts
I'm 52 with my DRG and I have no priority system, it's a specific and very long rotation optimized around cooldown timers. One screwup and DPS gets a shot to the foot. This might change as I get to 60, and I hope it does.
I was probably one of the people you heard from. It was never a space issue, just a layout issue. The DRG combos used to be 3-part with a single pre-combo ability, so I had the full combo on a single set of face buttons. So now I have my combo finishers on R2>L2, which works pretty well.
Also I've never found latency to be the thing limiting my DPS. Missing a positional, hitting the wrong button, blowing a panic Gierskogul and dropping BotD, these are the things I'm learning to avoid, and it's wholly dependent on my own skill.
It does change, but mainly it's because bosses at 60 have a lot more mechanical things to do or AOEs to dodge. It becomes nearly impossible to hit perfect DPS, meaning you have a lot of opportunities to recover.
I swear, Oppressor flies off the fucking screen right before my combo finisher a good 50% of the time.
Now if you're dummy parsing, yeah, you're still on the exact same kind of optimized rotation as before, with the minor hiccup of having to change position for whichever combo finisher you get.
I think something like Monk is more like a priority system, right? John Fucking Madden and all that?
Start with Straight Shot. Keep it maintained, use it whenever it lights up.
Put up your DoTs, maintain them, refresh with Iron Jaws just before they fall off.
Use Empyreal Arrow whenever it's off CD (paired with Barrage when possible).
Any remaining GCDs are filled by Heavy Shot.
Use Blood Letter any time it's off CD.
Blunt Arrow, Repelling Shot, and Sidewinder used whenever they're up unless they're being saved for a particular burn phase or silence/movement.
I really like theorycrafting.
Eh the Dragoon at 50 is not really a rotation though, the reason it's so silly and long is precisely because it's just a priority system that someone played out into an ideal "rotation" (Or more precisely an "opener"). Dragoon has a few key elements in doing it's DPS, your Self Buff, your DoT rotation, and your filler rotation. The priority is in that order as well, buff yourself, apply your DoTs, use your filler rotation when the above two are ticking, beyond that you weave in your off GCDs in between your main GCDs as you execute that system. (The Off GCDs have their own priorities as well)
It does change considerably as you get closer to 60 (from what I've been told by the Dragoon in our static), but in any real fight you are far better off viewing it as that priority system, it will allow you to be far more adaptive in the fight and you'll end up getting more DPS than trying to stick rigidly to the "rotation", especially given how the fights tend to be broken up and how you often need to hold Cooldowns for burst in sections, withhold DoTs when the boss is about to jump/become invulnerable, or adjust to account for dodging of mechanics, etc.
The same holds true for pretty much every Job, you typically have core concepts you want to execute based on the situation you are given. How you handle a single target is different from 2 targets, and from 3 targets. Even within a single target how you DPS differs wildly based on the phases and movements of that target and the overall mechanics of the fight. What people often refer to as the "rotation" for a DPS class is often actually the opener designed to maximize DPS for GCDs spent in the open of a fight when the target is far less likely to be engaging in mechanics (It is also to take advantage of party buffs and debuffs on the target typically used in the opening of a fight).
Once you get past the opener though you'll want to adjust your play to suit the fight and make decisions based on the priorities of your Job. Summoner for example at 60 has a very long complicated opening "rotation" that flies right out the window once you have to start dealing with mechanics, at which point you focus on Keeping DoTs up, managing Pet abilities, timing your DWT with burn phases, or making sure you save Aetherflow for Add phases, etc.
The only Job I'm not sure if this applies to is Monk as I've only gotten Pugilist to 26ish (Just not really my style). I would assume this is the case as well, but I haven't personally researched Monk or played it myself like the other DPS classes so I won't presume that to be true, i'll let someone else chime in on that.
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Still, when I pull 800 in A1 and all I have to compare it to is someone's 1200 DPS dummy parse, that's not terribly helpful. I know I'll never be in the top 5% of DPS, but when only the best are posting their parses it's hard to set meaningful goals for yourself. "Do better next time" is the only mantra.
While numbers are good what I find myself doing most of all is re-examining a fight every time I do it. Each time I am comparing what I'm doing with what I did last time and trying to figure out where I can adjust to sneak in a GCD here, or holding some abilities at X point so I can really maximize them at Y, etc. Having a parser to sort of "check my work" and see if it's a gain or loss is good though.
There are a lot of factors that go into maximizing your DPS that are often out of your control as well, if someone dies in a fight I'll typically swiftcast+res them (more os now that my MP issues are more stable than healers), now that Swiftcast isn't available for Shadowflare like I would have normally so I end up losing DPS. Ravana Extreme is a good example with the Add phase as well, I need to focus on burst during that phase but the butterflies have just enough HP that I can't rely solely on ruin spam and too little HP for me to throw DoTs up on each one. But if they happen to be near the Boss I can Bane DoTs over which is a nice boost to my numbers, otherwise I take a pretty big loss there as I burn Aetherflow inefficiently to make sure they die in time by using Tri-disaster+Fester on the Moon Butterfly.
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Really the sheer fact that the game has a combo system at all is what makes me believe there are indeed rotations. I'm not going to hit Disembowel, Chaos Thrust and THEN Impulse Drive. It must always be ID>DM>CT which then leads into TT>VT>FT at least twice until my self buff and Phleb are about to fall off.
I like doing the bold myself when tanking, if I can examine a fights mechanics, I can know where the tricks lie.
How long do I actually have before I need to move? Where is it best to tank the boss? Should I stay put or drag it all over creation? (usually No to that last one)
I especially love the last fight of Fractal Continuum because the combination of mechanics can change the best tanking point of the boss during the course of the fight.
There are rotations within the system because the combos necessitate it but the system itself is not one. The reason you do self buffs first is to boost the potency of your abilties, this is why it has a higher priority than everything else, then DoTs need to be applied in advance to get full duration benefits, so they are second priority, then of course filler damage is last. You are correct in that this establishes an ideal order, but that only holds true on a training dummy scenario or in openers.
In a fight for instance you wouldn't apply your DoTs right before the boss jumps, or your long cooldown buffs for that matter, that would be a loss of DPS, so the order changes. You also wouldn't use your full DoT combo on an AoE pack of mobs, so that changes it as well.
Because the fights are so situational and how your DPS is dictated largely by them it doesn't make sense to focus so heavily on a super long string of abilities in a rotation. Instead you break it down into parts, and assign to those priorities, so at any given point in the fight you can asses what is more important and focus on that. Sometimes you'll want to repeat your filler combo instead of popping a buff because you want to save your buffs for a big burn phase coming up. You sort of need to view each combo as it's own complete package, since as you mention you are never going to want to execute them out of order, but the order in which you use the combo as a whole withing the DPS system as a whole will change often based on what the fight dictates.
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Dragoon Aoe is VERY capable though and depending on size of the pack you'll get far more bang for buck with the AoE abilities than focusing on a single target in the pack. Our Dragoon regularly utilizes his AoE abilities on packs and pulls some very impressive numbers in doing so. Obviously you need to factor in TP and not completely deplete yourself in doing so (unless the fight calls for it) but for more often than not it is absolutely worth it.
This holds true for pretty much all the DPS classes, you typically want to compare the potency/GCD of your single target abilities (even within a combo) vs the potency/GCD per target of the AoE abilities to decide whether it's worth it to use them in any given situation. If an AoE ability does 100 potency per target and your single target ability does 280 for instance, the second you can hit three targets with your AoE ability it becomes a better use for that GCD than the single target ability, and it only goes up from there with each additional target hit. (Of course you need to weigh this against TP/MP use as well)
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Becuase I felt super guilty trying to watch them in that last dungeon that I just ended up skipping them since apparently they're pretty long.
Which is a shame, I love the story and prefer not having to go back and look through the lil book at the inn.
I'll bring this up, but maybe you already knew if you edit your hud you can do ctrl+home and it scales up that bar. I have a bar 6 or 7 set to max size, vertically, with about 6 of my Bard cooldowns.
Edit: Opps, you said buffs/debuffs. Sorry! You can increase that bar size too though.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
Yes! The new content is much better about not having long cutscenes midway through encounters. There is still a bit of that but they've gotten far better at it (largely i'd wager in response to Castrum Meridian and Preatorium complaints)
What they do primarily now is have cutscenes at the beginning (where noone can proceed until everyone is done) and at the end (where people can leave if they don't want to wait)
As Madican says below though you shouldn't feel bad for watching cutscenes at all, don't let players pressure you into skipping them, that's very rude of them to do so.
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Just watch the cutscenes. Most groups will just bulldoze everything and won't need your assistance. If they do? Then they'll learn to wait.
FFXIV is an MMO but it is story-driven in a very heavy manner. I for one will not skip any cutscene the first time I see it. It's part of the story and I am going to experience that story.
Usually I'm all prepped and ready to go and say "fuck it, I've never seen this before and I'm going to watch it. They can kick me if they need to rush" but then once I'm actually there, I turn into a timid coward and my voice starts to break like Jeremy Freedman from the Simpsons.
Yes but numbers are a far more effective way of illustrating that!
For instance here is the breakdown of 8 GCDs of Doomspike spam rotation (HT-RoT-DS-DS-DS) and how it varies in potency per hit and targets hit (pre-3.0 numbers here)
2 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 2) + (((160 x 1.15) x 2) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 340.38 potency per hit
3 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 3) + (((160 x 1.15) x 3) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 499.94 potency per hit
4 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 4) + (((160 x 1.15) x 4) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 659.5 potency per hit
5 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 5) + (((160 x 1.15) x 5) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 819.06 potency per hit
6 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 6) + (((160 x 1.15) x 6) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 978.63 potency per hit
7 targets: (170 + ((150 x 1.15) x 7) + (((160 x 1.15) x 7) x 6)) / 8 GCDs = 1138.19 potency per hit
Compared to a HT > RoT spam rotation designed to conserve TP! (also pre-3.0)
2 targets: ((170 + (150 x 2)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 270.25 potency per hit
3 targets: ((170 + (150 x 3)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 356.5 potency per hit
4 targets: ((170 + (150 x 4)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 442.75 potency per hit
5 targets: ((170 + (150 x 5)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 529 potency per hit
6 targets: ((170 + (150 x 6)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 615.25 potency per hit
7 targets: ((170 + (150 x 7)) x 1.15) / 2 GCDs = 701.5 potency per hit
Which is some disgusting Potency per hit honestly. First setup will drain your TP in 25 seconds though but your targets will likely be long dead by then. You can also notice that even at 2 targets we're talking 340 potency per hit which is typically higher than even a full combo potency on a single target.
Same thing goes for Ninja, even though Death Lotus is only 100 potency, when couple with Kassatsu+Doton Ninja puts out some very impressive AoE dps!
I have no idea what Monks do but they pull some very impressive AoE numbers as well. I just assume TnT is a wizard in those instances.
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This is very true, but it doesn't mean you don't AoE in AoE situations, It is almost always a net DPS loss to use single target GCD abilities in any situation involving 3 or more targets and sometimes even 2 or more targets. (Off GCD is fine of course woven in between AoE abilities)
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In regards to using parser information, it's always going to be hard to base your numbers against another persons. There are soooooo many factors contributing to/hindering DPS that you can only count on gauging numbers against yourself to see any real results.
For example, take @Delzhand 's 800 A1 number. I have no idea what gear he's using, if he's using food, if he used pots, or how long the overall fight was. Comparing that to the 1200 dummy parse he mentioned makes it seem like he's doing kinda bad. However, most dummy parses are "normalized" at 3.5-4 minutes to get in about 3 rounds of full buffs. I know for a fact A1 can easily be done in under 2 minutes, and when you parse for that shorter duration you're missing out on another B4B/BL/DFD/etc that would boost your numbers up.
TL;DR DRG AoE is the bees knees and just use your own parse numbers to try and help yourself instead of worrying about whether or not you're up to snuff compared to others
Wait, uhhh what?
Use Dragon Kick over Arm of the Destroyer and tab over to the a mob after Rock Breaker. AoD needs to hit like 4 or 5 mobs to be marginal dps gain for twice the tp and dragon kicks debuff is super useful if magic damage is going out. Use Perfect Balance to spam Rock Breaker and cross class Bloodbath to heal up while you ignore aoes and make bad players report you for cheating cause your hp bar keeps going to 100% as soon as you take damage.
I don't know those Monk ability names or exactly they do because I"m not leveled high enough. (monk level is at 33.) But your description excites me.
I love how DPS in this game works. It makes them fun to level and play for me. That and not needing to roll a brand new character whenever I want to play around with a dps class is just the best.
I should probably work on getting Pugilist up and by extension Monk, but it'll probably be the last thing I do after I get all the other classes to 60 (by then there may be another expansion and more jobs!)
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So which attack rotation should I be using solo at this point?
-Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone?
-Savage Blade > Rage of Halone?
-Fast Blade > Riot Blade?
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
Backlog Challenge List
Oops, I was thinking of the mini boss for that part lol. Still, the point is faster kills sometimes means "lower" DPS.... muh bad. Although something else that should be mentioned, it's "easy" to inflate DPS numbers on that fight by switching back and forth between each oppressor, getting off all your DoTs and such.
As a summoner we call that playing normally
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i cry everytim i c smn dps on floor 2 compared to mine ; (
Oh man I love that fight, it's especially funny in DF when we get to the boss and the Tank says "Ok we should put the SMN in the robot"
A quick explanation about the concept of AoE usually dispels that particular notion, as well as ending the fight 400 DPS up on the next highest DPS.
My favorite reaction was to a Deathflare Crit on a 5 stack vulnerability mob for 6500 damage. Some guy in the party pointed it out and was pretty impressed.
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Option 1 is highest dps.
Option 2 isn't even an option.
Option 3 is for getting back MP which is almost never a thing solo (other then doing some janky soloing fate bosses where you have to cast cure a lot and live forever)