Options

A rootin' tootin' separate thread about voting, collective action problems and game theory

1235»

Posts

  • Options
    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Anyway I think the cross purposes thing is still happening. I think that HD is arguing that people in general should vote, which is true. But SKFM is arguing not that people should not vote, but that it is rational for him not to vote, which is also true (based on his valuation).

    I ate an engineer
  • Options
    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Again, people have died for a huge number of practical and philosophical points, and that does not make them inherently right.

    It does this subject, though.
    This is irrelevant to the rest of the argument but I truly loathe that point.

    It's a reminder for what has happened in the past over voting.

  • Options
    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Anyway I think the cross purposes thing is still happening. I think that HD is arguing that people in general should vote, which is true. But SKFM is arguing not that people should not vote, but that it is rational for him not to vote, which is also true (based on his valuation).

    It is only rational in an environment where he is the only non-voter, which isn't what happens during voting in elections. He isn't a special snowflake with this viewpoint. He's ignoring the logistics on the larger scale to feel better about not voting, when he's one among many in that group.

  • Options
    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    milski wrote: »
    Anyway I think the cross purposes thing is still happening. I think that HD is arguing that people in general should vote, which is true. But SKFM is arguing not that people should not vote, but that it is rational for him not to vote, which is also true (based on his valuation).

    It is only rational in an environment where he is the only non-voter, which isn't what happens during voting in elections. He isn't a special snowflake with this viewpoint. He's ignoring the logistics on the larger scale to feel better about not voting, when he's one among many in that group.

    The entire point of CAPs from the smallest prisoner's dilemma to the largest election is that everybody taking the rational choice leads to worse outcomes than everybody taking the irrational one. That is why they are called dilemmas or problems, not solved games.

    That does not change what the rational choice is, it just forces you to change the system to make the irrational choice less irrational.

    milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • Options
    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Julius wrote: »
    Why is it so important that YOUR vote is the ONE VOTE that matters?

    From a position of rational self interest I should only ever do things that are beneficial to me.

    If my vote doesn't matter and voting requires a non-zero amount of effort, then there is no benefit to voting to me.

    If everyone only ever acted according to rational self-interest we would have a pretty shitty society.
    Actually, if it were truly rational self interest they might realize that looking out for the greater good ends up benefiting themselves more anyway.

    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Not every vote will matter, but any vote could matter.

    Participatory democracy only works if people participate.

    Otherwise you get American democracy.

    Agreed, but people participating and person x participating are different things.
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Your one single vote probably isn't going to change much. You're still an asshole if you don't vote, because you're contributing to the problem.

    Throwing that one paper wrapper on the ground probably isn't going to singlehandedly wreck the environment. You're still an asshole if you litter, because you're contributing to the problem.

    Watering your lawn once at midday in the middle of a drought isn't going to immediately use up all available water. You're still an asshole blah blah blah are we seeing a pattern yet?

    The difference is the one wrapper can actually impact someone negatively if they come across it.
    In what way? That they scowled because some jerk threw some trash on the beach and now they might have to bend down and pick it up?
    Cause I scowl a lot harder when someone tells me they didn't vote because it doesn't matter and now I have to deal with a bunch regressive social and economic policy.

    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    This is done.


    421224174_y7qmj-1050x10000.jpg

    smCQ5WE.jpg
This discussion has been closed.