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  • gam3p0tgam3p0t Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Konphujun wrote: »
    I have a sneaking suspicion that they're going to make thaurassian's ability a battle cry.

    One turn of Thauss is enough to break Patron. They either need to nerf him out of usability (make it trigger at start of turn, or something) or nerf something else in the Patron deck. I would vote for the latter because I think Thauss enables some interesting decks (Malygos Warlock) and only breaking in Patron.

    If you think Patron is the only deck Thauss breaks you're not trying hard enough. Nerf a vital part of Patron and you'll see a new bullshit combo deck pop up centered on Thaurissan within the month, I guarantee. It's just not a mechanic that can stay in the game if you don't want these sorts of decks to exist.

    I'll be sad to see him go because he makes Malyvelen Priest workable, but bringing bad decks into competitiveness isn't worth having mediocre combo decks becoming meta-defining.
    Indeed; Thaur is sickening in the oil rogue deck; with the proper hand on drop he enables burst of 30+; best one I have ever had happen was my hand was deadly poison (x2) Oil (x2) Prep and blade flurry ( I think; destroy the weapon and deal damage to all enemies brain just stopped working entirely.) and southsea deckhand.
    Drop thaur get 1 turn of reduction; and the next turn is so dumb. Weapon (2 mana) -- Southsea deckhand (0)-- Deadly poison (x2 0 mana) Oil (3 mana) Oil (3 mana) attack with southsea (8 damage) attack with weapon (11) Blade flurry (1 mana- 11 damage) so 30 damage for 9 mana while having open board.

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWftn94D1Sc
    This explains some of the strange inconsistencies you've all probably seen. Randomly assigning a "dominant player" is just :rotate:

    LilnoobsRoyallyFlushedDibby
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Face paladin is such feast or famine. First game this morning I absolutely demolished a hunter. It wasn't even close. I even fucked up, missed lethal and still won. Against a hunter! That's how far ahead I was.

    Next game my opening hand is all 3- and 4-drop weapons and buffs and I have no ability to build board presence so I've basically lost before the turn 1.

    Game after that I take a massive lead, but Counterspell completely screws me over. I probably could have won if I'd blown my Consecration instead, but frankly I wasn't expecting Counterspell. The guy's previous secret was a Duplicate, so I figured it was some kind of grinder mage.

    It's fun though. I may try out Savjz's version from a few seasons back. It had wisps and hobgoblins.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
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  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Konphujun wrote: »
    I have a sneaking suspicion that they're going to make thaurassian's ability a battle cry.

    It would still be exactly as broken as it is now.

    Not at all. Nerfing him would free up a removal which is huge.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
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  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Also, I might come off as a bit aggressive in that last post (which I apologize for), but I should note I don't actually mind patron that much. The frothing OTKs are very annoying but I generally don't see them actually go off that often. And I certainly like having Thaurissan in the game because he enables my dumb decks. I just don't think his continued existence is going to be healthy for the game in the long run.

    The main problem is that he will never be less powerful than he is now, no matter what decks, tribes and abilities get introduced, unless the mana system is changed somehow.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
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  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    He's saying it's not really a nerf because the decks that use him to greatest effect only require a single tick of cost reduction anyway.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWftn94D1Sc
    This explains some of the strange inconsistencies you've all probably seen. Randomly assigning a "dominant player" is just :rotate:

    Yeah so that's basically the theory I had in my head.

    Which was that the game doesn't give a fuck what was played in what order, it'll just do whatever the fuck it wants to.

    God, Hearthstone is so jank sometimes. The video calls it a "bug", but really it's just faulty programming, isn't it?

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWftn94D1Sc
    This explains some of the strange inconsistencies you've all probably seen. Randomly assigning a "dominant player" is just :rotate:

    Yeah so that's basically the theory I had in my head.

    Which was that the game doesn't give a fuck what was played in what order, it'll just do whatever the fuck it wants to.

    God, Hearthstone is so jank sometimes. The video calls it a "bug", but really it's just faulty programming, isn't it?

    It's clear that they did it deliberately, I think. Why though? I could see them not wanting players to have to think through the details of the order of resolution, and deciding instead to have effects go off in random order. But this? Now you have to figure out who the dominant player was assigned to be at the beginning of the game?

    Account not recoverable. So long.
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWftn94D1Sc
    This explains some of the strange inconsistencies you've all probably seen. Randomly assigning a "dominant player" is just :rotate:

    Yeah so that's basically the theory I had in my head.

    Which was that the game doesn't give a fuck what was played in what order, it'll just do whatever the fuck it wants to.

    God, Hearthstone is so jank sometimes. The video calls it a "bug", but really it's just faulty programming, isn't it?

    It's clear that they did it deliberately, I think. Why though? I could see them not wanting players to have to think through the details of the order of resolution, and deciding instead to have effects go off in random order. But this? Now you have to figure out who the dominant player was assigned to be at the beginning of the game?

    I don't think it is deliberate.

    They have tried to make it clear what the rules of resolution are, going so far at one point to completely rework deathrattles ("first played, first triggered"), except we know now that's no longer the case.

    So I don't think it's deliberate. I think it's a giant oversight involving flawed programming.

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  • zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    zakkiel wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWftn94D1Sc
    This explains some of the strange inconsistencies you've all probably seen. Randomly assigning a "dominant player" is just :rotate:

    Yeah so that's basically the theory I had in my head.

    Which was that the game doesn't give a fuck what was played in what order, it'll just do whatever the fuck it wants to.

    God, Hearthstone is so jank sometimes. The video calls it a "bug", but really it's just faulty programming, isn't it?

    It's clear that they did it deliberately, I think. Why though? I could see them not wanting players to have to think through the details of the order of resolution, and deciding instead to have effects go off in random order. But this? Now you have to figure out who the dominant player was assigned to be at the beginning of the game?

    I don't think it is deliberate.

    They have tried to make it clear what the rules of resolution are, going so far at one point to completely rework deathrattles ("first played, first triggered"), except we know now that's no longer the case.

    So I don't think it's deliberate. I think it's a giant oversight involving flawed programming.

    They created two separate queues for events, and ordered them according to player ID. How does that happen accidentally?

    Account not recoverable. So long.
  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    It's no accident. The evidence for me is that the player ID used to always go to one person, but now it's randomly assigned. That's a deliberate change.

    esports

    Lilnoobs on
  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    They created two separate queues for events, and ordered them according to player ID. How does that happen accidentally?
    There are loads of reasons why it could be done for computational efficiency.

    For example, let's say there are 5 minions on either side of a board, so 10 minions total. I play Starfall, which only affects enemy minions. What's quicker, running through each of the 10 minions, and performing an operation that checks who its owner is each time, then applying the damage? Or having a pre-constructed list of minions by owner that is then used for friendly/enemy minion references?

    So when they got to coding the end of turn, they probably just said, "well, we want to run through all the minions on board's end of turn effects, and we already have two populated lists of minions arranged by owner, so that's what we'll use, one at a time, since it means we don't have to create a second, redundant, memory-eating queue structure for minions just for the purpose of end of turn effects."

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
  • InqInq Registered User regular
    It's not an accident that there's a player id 1 vs 2, but its an accident that it causes unpredictable game play like with Power Overwhelming + Shadow Madness.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I'm weak... I bought 15 packs with the express purpose of getting enough dust to build Handlock... and it worked! I even opened a Mountain Giant (and a Deathwing!) as well as enough dust to make the other three Giants. Then I played Handlock a bunch.

    Made it to rank 8 which is my highest rank this season.

    LilnoobsGoodKingJayIIINeurotikaMNC Dover3cl1ps3MMMigVariableThe Escape GoatGnome-InterruptusVarethiuscrimsoncoyoteIron Weasel
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    zakkiel wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWftn94D1Sc
    This explains some of the strange inconsistencies you've all probably seen. Randomly assigning a "dominant player" is just :rotate:

    Yeah so that's basically the theory I had in my head.

    Which was that the game doesn't give a fuck what was played in what order, it'll just do whatever the fuck it wants to.

    God, Hearthstone is so jank sometimes. The video calls it a "bug", but really it's just faulty programming, isn't it?

    It's clear that they did it deliberately, I think. Why though? I could see them not wanting players to have to think through the details of the order of resolution, and deciding instead to have effects go off in random order. But this? Now you have to figure out who the dominant player was assigned to be at the beginning of the game?

    I don't think it is deliberate.

    They have tried to make it clear what the rules of resolution are, going so far at one point to completely rework deathrattles ("first played, first triggered"), except we know now that's no longer the case.

    So I don't think it's deliberate. I think it's a giant oversight involving flawed programming.

    They created two separate queues for events, and ordered them according to player ID. How does that happen accidentally?

    There's only one queue and it gets filled in a way that's not intended by the game designers (we assume) so it's a bug.

    Like, obviously someone sat down and coded it like it is. But that's true for any bug in the history of software development (note: the first bugs that were literal bugs don't count because that was hardware). Essentially, if Blizz comes out and says it's unintended then it's a bug. Bugs don't have to be completely accidental, it's enough to have a breakdown in communication somewhere between designers and coders.

    PoGo friend code: 7835 1672 4968
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I'm weak... I bought 15 packs with the express purpose of getting enough dust to build Handlock... and it worked! I even opened a Mountain Giant (and a Deathwing!) as well as enough dust to make the other three Giants. Then I played Handlock a bunch.

    Made it to rank 8 which is my highest rank this season.

    Handlock is great. One of my favorite decks, and the core of the deck is flexible enough that you can insert some different cards to alter the play style a bit.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
    MMMigKonphujun
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Did Priest suddenly just drop off the planet? I'm finding my priest deck isn't doing shit suddenly and looking at Hearthstoneplayer meta watch, there isn't a Priest deck in the top decks nor the decks to watch.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Bethryn wrote: »
    zakkiel wrote: »
    They created two separate queues for events, and ordered them according to player ID. How does that happen accidentally?
    There are loads of reasons why it could be done for computational efficiency.

    For example, let's say there are 5 minions on either side of a board, so 10 minions total. I play Starfall, which only affects enemy minions. What's quicker, running through each of the 10 minions, and performing an operation that checks who its owner is each time, then applying the damage? Or having a pre-constructed list of minions by owner that is then used for friendly/enemy minion references?

    So when they got to coding the end of turn, they probably just said, "well, we want to run through all the minions on board's end of turn effects, and we already have two populated lists of minions arranged by owner, so that's what we'll use, one at a time, since it means we don't have to create a second, redundant, memory-eating queue structure for minions just for the purpose of end of turn effects."

    This particular explanation doesn't jive with me, since events are triggered on both sides of the board and get queued. So, for example, after a Twisting Nether, the game has to loop through ALL minions on the board checking for their deathrattles anyways. In general, I think the robust software engineering practice would be to ALWAYS loop through all the minions on the board - for example, you might assume that with a Flamestrike, you only have to check the opponent's side, but there may be events triggered over there that cause further interactions on your side of the board. Similarly, end of turn events surely cause triggers on both sides - and searching both sides of the board is going to be REALLY negligible in runtime: double, yes, but still just 7 items at most.

    Every natural inclination in me says to create one EventQueue in the GameEngine, and process them one at a time, but I guess they must have placed one EventQueue in each Player, and called them separately from GameEngine: GameEngine.process(Player1.EventQueue) and then GameEngine.process(Player2.EventQueue)*. It's probably a result of a code architecture centered around Players, rather than the GameEngine, where most of the processing code occurs per Player, and is just called by the GameEngine.

    If this is the case, it's an interesting example of how a poor initial design choice results in problematic behaviour later on, since I don't see any reason to make the game code centered around Players rather than a GameEngine, except mis-applied OOP principles.


    * More likely, for (1<=i<=2) GameEngine.process(Players[ i ].EventQueue) - which explains why the PlayerID is relevant.

    hippofant on
  • zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    zakkiel wrote: »
    They created two separate queues for events, and ordered them according to player ID. How does that happen accidentally?
    There are loads of reasons why it could be done for computational efficiency.

    For example, let's say there are 5 minions on either side of a board, so 10 minions total. I play Starfall, which only affects enemy minions. What's quicker, running through each of the 10 minions, and performing an operation that checks who its owner is each time, then applying the damage? Or having a pre-constructed list of minions by owner that is then used for friendly/enemy minion references?

    So when they got to coding the end of turn, they probably just said, "well, we want to run through all the minions on board's end of turn effects, and we already have two populated lists of minions arranged by owner, so that's what we'll use, one at a time, since it means we don't have to create a second, redundant, memory-eating queue structure for minions just for the purpose of end of turn effects."

    It's a turn-based game. If they are seriously sacrificing game rules to hyper-optimize some cheap operations that are completed in less than milliseconds and will never, ever impact the player experience, they should fire their dev team.

    Account not recoverable. So long.
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Sometimes, stuff like this just makes all the other RNG bullshit OK.

    Things are OK.

    4glzjxi8y65v.jpg

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
    MNC DoverDibbyGriswold
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Did Priest suddenly just drop off the planet? I'm finding my priest deck isn't doing shit suddenly and looking at Hearthstoneplayer meta watch, there isn't a Priest deck in the top decks nor the decks to watch.

    Oh, it wasn't sudden . . .

    Most priest decks are good at outliving aggro decks. Unfortunately for priest players, the strong decks in the metagame right now are combo, midrange, and control decks. Facehunter is the only aggro deck still getting good results and therefore a decent amount of play with aggro zoolock decks having been replaced by midrange versions and aggro paladin no longer able to get wins through surprise value.

    It still sees play at events and tournaments where a deck can be tailored to what someone expects (and priest has a lot of reactive, conditional cards) but not so much on ladder.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Did Priest suddenly just drop off the planet? I'm finding my priest deck isn't doing shit suddenly and looking at Hearthstoneplayer meta watch, there isn't a Priest deck in the top decks nor the decks to watch.

    Priest is good against aggro and control, and some midrange, but it's extremely weak to any combo deck, and combo decks dominate the meta right now.

    It's also very draw dependent and needs certain combos to really dominate, but it has very weak draw right now compared to other decks, so if you don't have what you need you just get outpaced and lose.

    fedaykin666
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Yeah, it sucks as I have two quest that want 5 Priest wins and it's looking like a struggle to get any right now.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Yeah, it sucks as I have two quest that want 5 Priest wins and it's looking like a struggle to get any right now.

    Try the Brawl. It should be easier than ladder, at least!

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Sometimes, stuff like this just makes all the other RNG bullshit OK.

    Things are OK.

    4glzjxi8y65v.jpg

    Ooze is seriously one of the most underrated cards at the moment, I feel. Hardly anyone runs it!

    I mean, obviously Harrison is great if you have him, but if not, run an Ooze. It will do a lot of work for you. Weapon classes are very prevalent.

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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    MMMig
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Just gave a friend my log-in info for his S6. He won a casual game with Oil Rogue, knowing little about the game. He's a big magic player, so it was pretty easy to adapt.

    My packs were mostly just dust, but I did score a golden Epic (Patient Assassin) for an extra 400 dust. About 600 in total and currently I'm at 4,370. Bring on the next expansion!

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  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Yeah, it sucks as I have two quest that want 5 Priest wins and it's looking like a struggle to get any right now.

    Try the Brawl. It should be easier than ladder, at least!

    Not really. 0-4 doing this...

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Yeah, it sucks as I have two quest that want 5 Priest wins and it's looking like a struggle to get any right now.

    Try the Brawl. It should be easier than ladder, at least!

    Not really. 0-4 doing this...

    Try again with someone observing you for help/tips.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    After playing around with my unconventional Hunter Deathrattle Control deck in casual, I feel like both Multi-shot and Explosive Shot have a place in today's meta.

    thoughts?

  • EntriechEntriech ? ? ? ? ? Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    They need to address the increased RNG elements they brought into this game with GvG. The variance is just killing me. The number of times a solid game turns into a complete shit show because of unstable portal, webspinner, imp-plosion, bane of doom, and so on is infuriating.

    Lilnoobs
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    There is no longer a disagree button but I hella disagree

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  • CesareBCesareB Registered User regular
    Entriech wrote: »
    They need to address the increased RNG elements they brought into this game with GvG. The variance is just killing me. The number of times a solid game turns into a complete shit show because of unstable portal, webspinner, imp-plosion, bane of doom, and so on is infuriating.

    I don't really mind Portal and Webspinner because, I mean, you don't get drastically more than you paid for. Like, you get a random card added to your deck, but you still have to pay the mana costs to actually play it, so while they can turn a game upside-down they don't do it more or less for free the way the others do. Imp-plosion and Boom bots are pretty bad because of the way the RNG is doubled, and while Bane of Doom does require some setting up, there's something pretty wrong with an effect that can give you anything from Blood Imp to Mal'Ganis. How do you give that a reasonable cost?

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    CesareB wrote: »
    Entriech wrote: »
    They need to address the increased RNG elements they brought into this game with GvG. The variance is just killing me. The number of times a solid game turns into a complete shit show because of unstable portal, webspinner, imp-plosion, bane of doom, and so on is infuriating.

    Imp-plosion and Boom bots are pretty bad because of the way the RNG is doubled, and while Bane of Doom does require some setting up, there's something pretty wrong with an effect that can give you anything from Blood Imp to Mal'Ganis. How do you give that a reasonable cost?

    Reword the text to:

    Deal 2 damage to a character. If that kills it, summon a random non-Legendary minion.

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  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    CesareB wrote: »
    Entriech wrote: »
    They need to address the increased RNG elements they brought into this game with GvG. The variance is just killing me. The number of times a solid game turns into a complete shit show because of unstable portal, webspinner, imp-plosion, bane of doom, and so on is infuriating.

    I don't really mind Portal and Webspinner because, I mean, you don't get drastically more than you paid for. Like, you get a random card added to your deck, but you still have to pay the mana costs to actually play it, so while they can turn a game upside-down they don't do it more or less for free the way the others do. Imp-plosion and Boom bots are pretty bad because of the way the RNG is doubled, and while Bane of Doom does require some setting up, there's something pretty wrong with an effect that can give you anything from Blood Imp to Mal'Ganis. How do you give that a reasonable cost?


    I don't know...

    A boulder-first ogre on turn 3 can suck.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    edited July 2015
    CesareB wrote: »
    Entriech wrote: »
    They need to address the increased RNG elements they brought into this game with GvG. The variance is just killing me. The number of times a solid game turns into a complete shit show because of unstable portal, webspinner, imp-plosion, bane of doom, and so on is infuriating.

    I don't really mind Portal and Webspinner because, I mean, you don't get drastically more than you paid for. Like, you get a random card added to your deck, but you still have to pay the mana costs to actually play it, so while they can turn a game upside-down they don't do it more or less for free the way the others do. Imp-plosion and Boom bots are pretty bad because of the way the RNG is doubled, and while Bane of Doom does require some setting up, there's something pretty wrong with an effect that can give you anything from Blood Imp to Mal'Ganis. How do you give that a reasonable cost?

    You don't still have to pay the mana cost is a thing. Turn 5 Tirion is ludicrous because unless you have Poly or Hex on hand you basically just immediately lose. There is no way you can be prepared to deal with something like that that early.

    The Escape Goat on
    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    lmao when someone rage quits and tries to add you as a friend.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    For some reason I keep accidentally thinking a Warlock is a Warrior when I mulligan, and vice versa. I'm sure this is Blizzard's fault, somehow.

    MMMig
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    For some reason I keep accidentally thinking a Warlock is a Warrior when I mulligan, and vice versa. I'm sure this is Blizzard's fault, somehow.

    So you're saying all orcs look alike to you, huh? I don't understand how we can have this sort of racism in the modern day.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Coinage wrote: »
    For some reason I keep accidentally thinking a Warlock is a Warrior when I mulligan, and vice versa. I'm sure this is Blizzard's fault, somehow.

    So you're saying all orcs look alike to you, huh? I don't understand how we can have this sort of racism in the modern day.

    Yeah dude, I mean cmon.

    One has brown skin, the other has green skin! ezpz

    Also one likes weapons and armor a whole lot and the other is super into fel magic and demons.

    Dibby on
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