As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[Board Games] - ITT: Gaslighting Jergarmar with snuggles and hugs.

17071737576100

Posts

  • Joe DizzyJoe Dizzy taking the day offRegistered User regular
    There you go. If you needed a fig leaf to justify ignoring one of the most exciting and talked about gaming experiences of 2015, Magic Pink has you covered.

  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    jergarmar wrote: »
    JonBob wrote: »
    I've found it helps a lot just to have the opposing spymaster be in charge of placing the spy cards after guesses. That way the active spymaster doesn't start reaching for a card while conversation is still happening (easy to do by accident), and isn't in position to say "that isn't what I meant but..." because they don't have to respond at all.

    Yeah, that's a pretty solid middle ground. I don't want to actively squelch people from talking TOO much. And then if the friendly spymaster still reacts or talks when cards are placed, it's easy to have them turn around since they're not placing cards.
    discrider wrote: »
    I don't think that will solve your problem though.
    Then your spymasters are likely to be too eager to pick up bystanders/the assassin/their own agents to end the other team's turn.

    I don't think I mind this. That just means the guesses have to be very explicit (e.g. "We choose this one"). If the team is discussing and saying, "Maybe this one?" and the spymaster goes "AHA that's ours," then the group should be able to call them out on it.

    I force people to physically touch the card(s) they choose before the spymaster (usually me) can reach for any cars. Once they touch/point very closely at that card, the choice is locked in.

    Note: I don't physically force people to touch the cards :P

    It touches the cards or else it gets the hose again

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    I can understand the viewpoint of not wanting to spend money on a Legacy game. They are a bit expensive and do have a limited life span. Sure there's ~18 games on average in the box, and a lot of fun memories that can be had, but that can be said of many games. I'm intimidated by it, as I was going through all the components when I first received it. Haven't removed the cellophane off anything inside yet though.

    I'm hoping that I can force a monthly game night to play it, with 2 games per night, so that we have a decent chance to finish it over the course of a year. But for some people, playing a game on a monthly basis may be too much to ask, so perhaps it wouldn't form stories as well as other groups.

    Anyway, I'm rambling, but I can see both sides. I'm really hoping to enjoy it, and really hope we don't end up killing everyone.

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Joe Dizzy wrote: »
    There you go. If you needed a fig leaf to justify ignoring one of the most exciting and talked about gaming experiences of 2015, Magic Pink has you covered.

    Noted you never actually said "good", just excited and talked about. Sounds like you're more buying into hype than actually enjoying it, something I've absolutely been guilty of.

    I'm not saying people can't like this game, but this constant insistence that there's something wrong with someone who likes being able to replay their games and doesn't want to try or own something that literally has you destroying parts of it so you can never use it again really needs to be left by the wayside.



  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    I did some more browsing of articles and such at work and I'm feeling better about having picked it up. If I can convince 3 other people to do it, we'll eventually play the Legacy portion of the game, but the absolute best piece of news that I read was that you can ignore the Legacy components entirely and simply play a regular game of Pandemic as if it was (a slightly more expensive version of) the original game, which is where we can still get replay from it with players who aren't doing the Legacy campaign with us.

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    Plus, the new board has new city connections that make South America and Africa a bit nicer to deal with.
    First Edition:
    51MUlXfsQbL.jpg

    Second Edition:
    45788eaa90eb7897e2935d5e3ea4f00c.jpg

    Legacy Edition:
    1504291898214473031.jpg

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • mere_immortalmere_immortal So tasty!Registered User regular
    If you don't want to shell out the full cost of a legacy game just get 4/5 of you who want to play it and chip in £5/10 each. That's what we did for Risk Legacy and then agreed that the winner would keep the board end everyone else would keep the plastic dudes of the faction they played the most.

    Steam: mere_immortal - PSN: mere_immortal - XBL: lego pencil - Wii U: mimmortal - 3DS: 1521-7234-1642 - Bordgamegeek: mere_immortal
  • Dark WhiteDark White Registered User regular
    It is very good.

    You need to stop looking at it like other board games. It is a different thing. You are paying for a one-time experience that is very worth having. You don't disparage a nice dinner because you can't eat it again once it's gone.

    jswidget.php?username=Dark%20White&numitems=8&text=title&images=small&show=top10&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Dark White wrote: »
    It is very good.

    You need to stop looking at it like other board games. It is a different thing. You are paying for a one-time experience that is very worth having. You don't disparage a nice dinner because you can't eat it again once it's gone.
    If you don't want to shell out the full cost of a legacy game just get 4/5 of you who want to play it and chip in £5/10 each. That's what we did for Risk Legacy and then agreed that the winner would keep the board end everyone else would keep the plastic dudes of the faction they played the most.

    It's not as if dudes like Magic Pink and myself who aren't pro-Legacy aren't, you know, informed about how it works. At least not ITT. I'm not quite as adamantly opposed to the whole concept, and God knows I own enough stuff I'll never see the endgame of without a radical change in approach to it (looking at you, Descent!), but without going shares on it or just participating in someone else's copy I'll probably never touch a Legacy game.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • jergarmarjergarmar hollow man crew goes pew pew pewRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    And for something completely different, I just pulled out Tigris & Euphrates for the first time in a long while. Holy MOLEY what a mean, brilliant, and wonderful game. Absolutely one of my favorites.

    jergarmar on
    When I was a child, I had a fever...
    jswidget.php?username=jergarmar&numitems=7&text=none&images=small&show=hot10&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
    My BoardGameGeek profile
    Battle.net: TheGerm#1430 (Hearthstone, Destiny 2)
  • DeoDeo Registered User regular
    Considering Pandemic: Legacy just made it to number #3 today on BGG, I think it's fair to say it's at least "good".

    And it is. It's one of my best gaming experiences of all time.

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    I couldn't help myself. Machi Koro was on sale on Amazon (guess they're clearing out the original game since the deluxe is out?) and I picked it up. I think I'm going to have to either wrap it for myself or for my wife. :P

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    I think legacy games really help find the fault line between people who like board games because of single memorable experiences, versus people who like board games because of the ability to grow their mastery of the system. It's interesting to see the split between how often people play single games. I know I definitely fall on the side where I don't play my individual games that often, but I still don't think a legacy game could work for me, because I play games with so many different people, it would be completely inconsistent.

    sig.gif
  • MartossMartoss Registered User regular
    I think not wanting to change the game permanently is a fair complaint, especially when they could have designed around it. They could have you record your changes on a sheet and then place markers at the start of subsequent games, for example. But that's not as "dramatic" as writing on the board or tearing up cards.

    I mean, that kind of drama works for my group. Even if it allows my sister to permanently name things after her favorite Backstreet Boys.

  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    Pandemic Legacy has been a wonderful experience so far. Much more so than Risk Legacy was (largely I'm sure because of the better game under the hood).

    The arguments about the Legacy games are tough, because there are a lot of different aspects of these designs. I think the core components are:
    1) Surprise
    2) Campaign
    3) Consumability

    Each of these three are present in tons of existing games. The Legacy games are novel in that all three aspects are used.

    1: Legacy games are to some extent once-only experiences, in that they can be spoiled and once you know what's coming, you can't get the same experience again. This is the case in many games with tight, pre-crafted narratives or puzzles, like TIME Stories or Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective. Or even things like Trivial Pursuit. In that sense all of these games can be "used up." I plan on playing Pandemic Legacy again once our campaign is complete, with a new group. It won't be the same, but I hope it will be like watching a movie with a twist ending with people who haven't seen it, and I'll experience things fresh from a new perspective.

    2: Campaign games are everywhere. They all rely on getting a group to commit to playing a game multiple times to see the storyline through.

    3: Even consumability is not by itself novel. Simple, classic games like Yahtzee are consumable; you write on the score pad and throw it away. Sure, you can make your own sheets or craft some reusable mechanism like whiteboards. You can do this in Legacy games too, with effort. This is not how they're designed because of ergonomics (most of the proposed "rewindable" versions take more effort and are less clear than the "consumable" method) and psychology (permanent changes to components have a real effect on the experience).

    There's nothing wrong with not liking one or more of these aspects. Plenty of people do. But they are clearly all very important components of the design as a whole, and the experience would not be nearly as rich without them. It can be an expensive form of entertainment compared to some others. I don't get why some people seem to find it offensive though, when other forms of consumable entertainment (a concert, sporting event, meal) are not, though.

    jswidget.php?username=JonBob&numitems=10&header=1&text=none&images=small&show=recentplays&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    JonBob wrote: »
    3: Even consumability is not by itself novel. Simple, classic games like Yahtzee are consumable; you write on the score pad and throw it away. Sure, you can make your own sheets or craft some reusable mechanism like whiteboards. You can do this in Legacy games too, with effort. This is not how they're designed because of ergonomics (most of the proposed "rewindable" versions take more effort and are less clear than the "consumable" method) and psychology (permanent changes to components have a real effect on the experience).
    I've played a ton of Seven Wonders, and I haven't finished off any of the included scorepads. :0

    I think I'd be OK with just turning off the perfectionist part of my brain and enjoying Pandemic Legacy as it's intended, but I still haven't managed to get a campaign group together for Imperial Assault, which I'm way more excited about (and doesn't destroy its components*).

    * - it's implied that you should track your campaign status on the back cover of the campaign book, so I guess in that sense you could only play it once? But I don't think anyone would actually do that, and the book does include a link to the FFG page to print out fresh copies of the campaign status sheet.

    Fry on
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    I love the idea of Risk Legacy and Pandemic Legacy except for the part where I have to get the same group together to play it many many times. I would love to do that, but it's just not a reasonable thing for my group to do. And that bums me out something fierce.

    camo_sig2.png
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    I would agree, but I amazingly have a second Kingdom Death session booked in for Friday. Clearly one successful game night and one planned game night signals a glorious new era of consistent and regular campaign gameplay.

    Clearly.

    Incoming disappointment in 3, 2, 1...

    Jam Warrior on
    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • Dark WhiteDark White Registered User regular
    Obviously it wouldn't work with Risk Legacy, but for Pandemic if I didn't have my girlfriend to play it with, I would absolutely play through it solo. If she keeps not using the Dispatcher and Operations Expert's abilities it will make me wish I had :x

    jswidget.php?username=Dark%20White&numitems=8&text=title&images=small&show=top10&imagesonly=1&imagepos=right&inline=1&domains%5B%5D=boardgame&imagewidget=1
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

  • Custom SpecialCustom Special I know I am, I'm sure I am, I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    I'm done with Pandemic, but plan on grabbing Legacy once it's actually feasible to play it regularly.
    Pandemic: The Cure, though, I am down for all day.

    XBL: F4ll0utBP | STEAM | PSN : CustomSpecial | Bnet: F4ll0ut#1636
  • DeoDeo Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    I don't really care for base Pandemic, but Legacy totally sold me on Pandemic with expansions.

  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    The Game of Life: Legacy
    Operation: Legacy
    Connect Four: Legacy

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

  • CesareBCesareB Registered User regular
    Tertiee wrote: »
    CesareB wrote: »
    Tertiee wrote: »
    I've already tried the Resistance and hated it. Maybe it was because I was the only new person in an experienced group and never chosen to go on missions but I felt like there wasn't enough to do. I figured the game is too light on theme/mechanics for my liking in comparison to BSG so I've been eyeing middle-weight stuff like Dark Moon. Dead of Winter I've enjoyed but even the short scenarios can take an hour thirty to finish.

    Honestly the people NOT going on the missions have the MOST to do. The people who are on the missions know their own alignment, so the deductive process they have to go through is a fair bit simpler. Like if I'm a good guy and I go on a mission that fails, I know one of the other people on the mission was bad. But the people who didn't go on that mission have to include me as a possible baddie. Also, the fewer missions you go on, the less other people know about your alignment, hence the more freedom of maneuver you have to convince people that you're something other than what you are ;)

    Doesn't this shadows of of doubt over your alignment only help if you're trying to convince the groupv you aren't the traitor? I remember being a non-traitor and having nothing to say since everyone else already familiar with the game would spell out the decision making trees.

    This does have me considering that given I dislike Resistance and One Night Ultimate Werewolf maybe I don't like traitor games at all and I enjoy BSG for other reasons despite it being one,.

    I say this only having played the Avalon version, but it can be very valuable for the generic good guys to make the bad guys think they're more important than they genuinely are.
    I would be much more likely to want to play the Imperial Assault3 hat Fry is describing than the "balance it by not going all in" version. I feel like in a pen and paper RPG, pulling punches (if it's that kind of game) is fine - but in a board game I want this game game to actually give me a challenge based on the rules as written. If I have other balanced it myself... I'm less enthusiastic about the game - I feel like that shouldn't 2b my job.
    While
    .

  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    "I can't get a group to play the game" is a perfectly reasonable reason not to play Pandemic Legacy- it's a campaign, you want the same group of people to play 18 plays of it, if you don't have a stable boardgaming group it will just sit there and taunt you with its beauty.

    Responding to SageinaRage though- I'm totally a "growing mastery" guy and I still love P:L to pieces! It keeps suddenly and excitingly changing the ruleset on me so I get to master a completely new set of rules every game! I'm having difficulty not putting an exclamation point after every sentence!

  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    It would have to cost like $200, but can you imagine TI3 Legacy or Eclipse Legacy?

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Six wrote: »

    Do it. It's awesome.

    No, it's terrible. It's simply the dumbest idea that's come out in boardgames in years. I've played almost all of my good games easily more than twelve times. If Risk Legacy is a one time through, tear up the stuff as you play they best drop the price to 20$ or less. I have a massive amount of games as good as or better; I have absolutely no need of something of so little value.

    This makes you the exception, even in the pretty heavy-duty board game nerd demographic, I think. Most people don't play their games 12 times, let alone more than 12 times, especially if they have a big collection or multiple people in their group buy new games regularly or semi-regularly.

    People are entirely free not to buy something that has a limited shelf-life, but that doesn't make it a dumb idea or an overpriced purchase. We very regularly make purchases equal to or greater than the cost of a legacy game that are one-use experiences, and something like Pandemic Legacy will give you many hours of enjoyment, in a way that is pretty interesting and novel, for a modest price.

    If anything, having a big collection of games makes the game a more attractive prospect. If you can only have two or three games and you'll play them all to death, sure. But if you have plenty of other games you can play once you finish a legacy game, you're not as limited!

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    It would have to cost like $200, but can you imagine TI3 Legacy or Eclipse Legacy?

    I know someone who would buy them.
    And we would get the proverbial band back together to play them

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    It would have to cost like $200, but can you imagine TI3 Legacy or Eclipse Legacy?

    I would legitimately consider buying Caverna, Agricola, or a Dungeon Lords/Pets Legacy. Which shows you where my tastes lie.

    I'd make a joke here about Mage Knight Legacy but I'm pretty sure Mage Knight is a Legacy game where you just play out the whole thing in one go.

    admanb on
  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    It would have to cost like $200, but can you imagine TI3 Legacy or Eclipse Legacy?

    I would legitimately consider buying Caverna, Agricola, or a Dungeon Lords/Pets Legacy. Which shows you where my tastes lie.

    I'd make a joke here about Mage Knight Legacy but I'm pretty sure Mage Knight is a Legacy game where you just play out the whole thing in one go.

    I'ts kind of interesting to think about how Legacy might work with games that have more of a personal board. Maybe a limited pool of specializations (you slowly become the Trap Master in Dungeon Lords only to discover halfway through about SUPER ROGUES!)

  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    I know I made it kind of a joke, but Operation: Legacy would be totally legit.

    And then I realized that you may as well play either of the Trauma Center games, because that's about the level of crazy that would come out of a campaign involving a single guy and the multiple issues he has to deal with.

    Throw in a time bomb in the middle of the campaign for good measure. ;)

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    I think I draw a distinction between "Legacy" games (which have components that are meant to be permanently altered over the course of a campaign) and campaign games. We ran a Home Brew Flashpoint: Fire Rescue campaign game, and it became LIKE a Legacy game in some ways. We had a "Memorial Wall" where we wrote the names of fallen firefighters, and new boards that came out for Flash Point injected surprising new content into the game, but I would hesitate to call it a Legacy game. We also had a firehouse that "upgraded" over time, like the X-Com base, with further roles and tech upgrades improving the firefighting as we played.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    8i1dt37buh2m.png
  • Joe DizzyJoe Dizzy taking the day offRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    I've had a fantastic time with Pandemic Legacy, finishing it after 15 plays with my girlfriend. (Two of which literally came down to the epidemic card being drawn one card draw too early.) At no point did it feel anything less then time and money well spent. And as has been mentioned, if you're so invested in playing the game again after finishing the campaign you can both just ignore whichever stickers you've applied to the board, and probably just not rip up those cards, that a regular Pandemic game would require.

    I like concluding my plays of a game, instead of just putting it back on the shelf and realising after 8-12 months that I haven't really missed playing that game again.

    Joe Dizzy on
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    Tail Feathers preorder shipped finally. i am VERY EXCITED ABOUT TAIL FEATHERS!

    pic2420112_md.jpg

    omg yessssss

  • MartossMartoss Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Lykouragh wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    It would have to cost like $200, but can you imagine TI3 Legacy or Eclipse Legacy?

    I would legitimately consider buying Caverna, Agricola, or a Dungeon Lords/Pets Legacy. Which shows you where my tastes lie.

    I'd make a joke here about Mage Knight Legacy but I'm pretty sure Mage Knight is a Legacy game where you just play out the whole thing in one go.

    They actually are developing a worker placement 4X legacy game.

  • DeoDeo Registered User regular
    Ah_Pook wrote: »
    Tail Feathers preorder shipped finally. i am VERY EXCITED ABOUT TAIL FEATHERS!

    pic2420112_md.jpg

    omg yessssss

    I lovelovelove the combination of ground missions with the air battle, but like...Armada. Luckily my wife is more interested in something like Tail Feathers, so it should hopefully get some decent play.

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    The Game of Life: Legacy

    Turns out you're already playing and you didn't even know it, and you can't stop...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqQNBR09Rc

    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    Deo wrote: »
    Ah_Pook wrote: »
    Tail Feathers preorder shipped finally. i am VERY EXCITED ABOUT TAIL FEATHERS!

    pic2420112_md.jpg

    omg yessssss

    I lovelovelove the combination of ground missions with the air battle, but like...Armada. Luckily my wife is more interested in something like Tail Feathers, so it should hopefully get some decent play.

    My wife is way more into mice than star wars, and we're both way way more into buying a complete game in a box than buying into a miniature game like armada yknow.

  • SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Joe Dizzy wrote: »
    There you go. If you needed a fig leaf to justify ignoring one of the most exciting and talked about gaming experiences of 2015, Magic Pink has you covered.

    Noted you never actually said "good", just excited and talked about. Sounds like you're more buying into hype than actually enjoying it, something I've absolutely been guilty of.

    I'm not saying people can't like this game, but this constant insistence that there's something wrong with someone who likes being able to replay their games and doesn't want to try or own something that literally has you destroying parts of it so you can never use it again really needs to be left by the wayside.



    Games are all about making decisions.
    If a game offers decisions that feel interesting and significant, we say that game is good.
    A decision that you only get to make once obviously feels much more significant than one you get to make over and over, and so becomes intrinsically more interesting.

    If you can't or don't appreciate that, well...
    that seems pretty strange to me.

    Maybe you just play games for entirely different reasons than I do.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    I would like a Legacy game based around a game that I actually enjoy playing, because neither Risk nor Pandemic are one of those.

    The Game of Life: Legacy

    Turns out you're already playing and you didn't even know it, and you can't stop...

    Oh you can stop....It's just that you never find out who the winner is.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
Sign In or Register to comment.