Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

The [chat] Who Circumnavigated Fairyland

14345474849

Posts

  • bowen wrote: »
    Firewatch is less of a game and more of a story though. Nothing super changes between playthroughs. Less communication with Delilah I think if you don't pick the right options, or at worst slightly different responses from her?

    Huh, really? I got the impression that leaning into goin' all paranoid and/or hitting on Delilah would lead to some actual plot changes.
    gavindel wrote: »
    Let's Plays and Persona 5: The movie not up your alley? Admittedly, Persona 5 the movie is like 16 hours long.

    I'm into Let's Plays for the personalities of the people playing them, (Game Grumps/Achievement Hunter/the McElroys over on Polygon), but for games I actually am interested in/haven't played yet, I'd rather take it in sans commentary.
    Is Persona 5: The Movie an actual thing? Or like a youtube fan thing?

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah I was kind of disappointed how railroady firewatch was after playing it a 2nd time. Dialog does change a bit, I think you can get her to tell you different things though.

    Ladies.
  • ProspicienceProspicience The Raven King DenvemoloradoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Nice list @Angel_of_Bacon, I probably got about as far into the witness as you before also shelving it. I'm with @iruka though, it is a great couch co-op game. My girlfriend helped me with it and had fun for someone not into games.

    I loved firewatch, playing it really felt like an interactive 1 off tv show to me. Didn't have any inkling to play it a second time though, so I can understand the disappointment you had @bowen.

    Kentucky Route Zero is probably in my top 10 favorite video games. Perfect mixture of weird and beautiful for me.

    You've inspired me to make a list though bacon. Right now I'm in the middle of Heat Signature. Which, I am absolutely loving. Especially in that I can play for 10 minutes or 2 hours and feel fulfilled either way. I'm also about 8 hours into Ori and the Blind Forrest. I originally picked it up when it came out and played a couple hours but then lost my computer, life, etc. etc. Really beautiful and fun platformer. Also about 7 hours into Deus Ex: Mankind divided, about 35 hours into Divinity Original Sin with my brother (really fun co-op game and absolutely brilliant writing), and about 2 hours into West of Loathing. On my waiting list I have, Life is Strange, Pyre, Dishonored 2, Tacoma and Quadrilateral Cowboy.

    Prospicience on
  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Is Persona 5: The Movie an actual thing? Or like a youtube fan thing?

    Complete and total spoilers, obviously.

    My bad. Not 16 hours long. Forty four hours long.


  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Did I mention I'm going to the schoolism live thing in Seattle next week? Is anyone else going?

    I went last year and it was awesome.

    [Edit] Just gonna edit this post, because double posting feels like too much.

    So I'm working on those alien thumbnail/sketches that I posted in the doodle thread. Initially I wanted to like each one by the time I'm done with them. Is that unrealistic? Now that I'm trying to make finished work (or at least finish things I set out to do) I'm having a hard time telling what an appropriate amount of time is to spend on something lol. I'll have to "meditate" on it, I guess haha.

    [Edit2] Nevermind. I've figured it out (for myself anyhow). The appropriate amount of time depends on the goals of the exercise and why you're doing them. If these were just exploration sketches, obviously it's unrealistic to like all of them. But since my goal with this one was "make each one of these ideas look cool", then I think it's realistic to want to like them all, since that's the goal of the whole thing. Might be a ridiculous standard though. Requiring 100% success. Ok now I feel less bad for not liking all of them. Still a useful exercise for me though haha.


    Thanks for reading my ramblings!

    Sublimus on
  • FlayFlay Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Monument valley is the best game I've found to introduce someone to the medium. Very simple, explains everything, short, extremely pretty and outside the cliche assumptions about what games are.

    By the way, has anyone played nier automata? I'm some way through the second playthrough, but I really can't see why people are raving about it. I haven't seen anything to write home about yet, story-wise.

    EDIT: Damn, I wish I could go to that schoolism thing. Maybe one day they'll come to Australia.

    Flay on
    Prospicience
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    Flay wrote: »
    Monument valley is the best game I've found to introduce someone to the medium. Very simple, explains everything, short, extremely pretty and outside the cliche assumptions about what games are.

    By the way, has anyone played nier automata? I'm some way through the second playthrough, but I really can't see why people are raving about it. I haven't seen anything to write home about yet, story-wise.

    EDIT: Damn, I wish I could go to that schoolism thing. Maybe one day they'll come to Australia.

    Monument Valley is lovely. I absolutely adored that game. Short but 110% worth it, IMO. Beautiful, fun, and relaxing.

    ProspicienceAngel_of_Bacon
  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    Finished another linocut, this time of my dog curled up taking a nap. I realized partway through that the image was going to be tiny and my nonexistent art skills had no idea how to make a cushion or something under her so I made the box to help frame up and embiggen the printed area on the page. That frame is 5x4" and it's printed on a hand torn 10x8" piece of heavy rag paper.

    hjWzWGa.jpg

    I'd appreciate any constructive feedback you folks could provide! Also, does anyone know a good way of cutting large sheets of paper that leaves a more natural looking edge than using scissors or a rotary cutter?

    tynicIrukabowenProspicienceDoodmanntapeslinger
  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    @m!ttens I feel like the doodle thread would be the better place to post this? Though! Might be interesting to combine the chat and doodle thread, considering the traffic.

    Also, went to the Schoolism workshop. Super good! Got to meet one of my early idols Wes Burt. Much shorter than I imagined. Falling deeper in love with Seattle. Gotta move here soon.

    [edit] back from the workshop. I took too many photos! Gonna take forever to cull them down, but I wanted to shoot the event to try and bump some elbows (and get practice shooting events).

    Sublimus on
  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    I tried to use an emoji, and everything after it got chopped from my post! Might be a forum bug?

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    Is that what's happening? Did you try to use a phone emoji? There's actually a fix for that that's probably not implemented on this instance of vanilla...

  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    Yeah basically. On mac you can bring up a little thing to use emoji's. That might be what happened when I posted a blank in your thread the other day!

  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    Guys! Bobby Chiu made a video with my photos!!


    IrukaProspicienceDoodmanntapeslingerPeasFlay
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    I havent been dumping videos in here:

    DoodmannbowenProspicienceAumni
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    That is some sweet speed (?) painting.
    What was the actual time on that? Multiple sessions on one and done?

    Also how did you get involved with the book in your sig?

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    (not my video, if that's not clear) but the artist says "Took around 3 hours to finish, video is 4x sped up". I find these things through tumblr, twitter, and artstation.

    The book folk reached out to me on twitter, and my understanding is that twitter is where they found me!

    BlindPsychicDoodmann
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I need to step up my twitter tagging game. I post but no one sees my stuff.

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    Like any community, engagement is important. Don't just post your own stuff, participate and comment on others, jump into the active activities. Try to have fun with it.

    Doodmann
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    How do you guys feel about putting times/hours on your porfolio projects?

    I'm thinking about doing that after some freelance stuff went sideways because they thought I could do something that took like 40 hours to conceptualize and execute in like 3 hours.

    This seems to be especially true with design work where someone thinks simplicity means it didn't take long.

  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    I don't think people will care to see it. But it might be worth working up the details, and just keeping them on hand for when you need to explain things to a client, or just for your own reference when giving time estimates. You should agree on a timeline with your client up front, and perhaps use your examples there. That's the time you want set expectations for a project.

    If people want it faster than you think is reasonable, you can charge a rush fee (or decline the project).

    You should also work up a standard contract that outlines your process too. Like "Round 1 is sketches, with two rounds of feedback" etc etc. This way they know how many times you're going to check in, but you also have a method to cut off the feedback (or charge extra for more rounds).

    Essentially, you have to be upfront, and set yourself up for success.


    Just my two cents on it. I don't do much freelance, so take that all as you will.


    Prospicience
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    I don't do a lot of freelance either (not in small part because I hate dealing with this kinda stuff), but I feel part of being a freelance artist is being able to articulate your working process and schedule to clients who have little to no idea of how art works, or how working with an artist works.

    So they might see that, "40 hours" next to something very graphic and simple, and assume you're either not very good, or that you just milking a client for their money. Because they don't know any better than to think that there's more to it than, "DRAW THIS THING!" ->"THIS THING IS NOW DRAWN!". That may be how it worked when they doodled during kindergarten art time, but that's not how it works in the real world. You know this...they don't.

    What you might consider is some kind of step by step to illustrate your process- specifically, showing how you work back and forth with a client- to arrive at a finalized design.
    A prospective client may skim over this when initially going through your portfolio, but it may be helpful as a thing to talk through with them as you discuss their commission work, so you can explain where that time and money is going.

    EX:
    -Description of initial client brief- what they asked for, any clarifications/modifications resulting from your discussion about it
    -First round of thumbnail sketches
    -Discussion with client about thumbnails sketches
    -Second round incorporating feedback
    -More client feedback
    -Finalized thumbnail
    -Started final piece
    -Final piece submitted for approval
    -Final piece adjusted based on client feedback

    Being able to show, or at least explain, this process may be helpful in making it clear that what are paying for is not , for the most part, the physical labor of making their poster/brochure/album cover/whatever, but in doing the necessary client relation work of ensuring that they are getting what they wanted at the end of the day.

    IrukaSublimusDoodmanntapeslinger
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    So does the new iPad mean I could jump on the ProCreate tablet painting train at 450 instead of 900?

  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    So does the new iPad mean I could jump on the ProCreate tablet painting train at 450 instead of 900?

    That's what it looks like! And I just bought my iPad like a month ago D: lol

    Doodmann
  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Ah, looks like I was wrong. Watts opened the online livestream courses a few days after the in person classes. Well, those are up if anyone is interested.


  • AvrahamAvraham Registered User regular
    I'm doing career counseling and thinking of crossing teaching off the list.
    Is it not impostor syndrome if I'm actually unsuited to the work?
    I recently ran a drawing workshop and after I did my brief intro, got tongue tied and didn't talk to the students for the rest of the 75 minutes.

    :bz: :bz: :bzz:
  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    Hard to say. Yes, not everyone is well suited to teaching. But at the same time, you may overcome whatever was hanging you up. I would say if you want to teach, don't let this stop you.

    Doodmann
  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Avraham wrote: »
    I'm doing career counseling and thinking of crossing teaching off the list.
    Is it not impostor syndrome if I'm actually unsuited to the work?
    I recently ran a drawing workshop and after I did my brief intro, got tongue tied and didn't talk to the students for the rest of the 75 minutes.

    The first time I had to execute a lesson plan for a room full of fifth graders, I was sweating like a marathon runner. Teaching comes with a very high initial cost to get comfortable with the sheer exposure. Any little thing you don't know feels like a personal failure.

    Unfortunately, that makes it really hard to say if you are "suited" to it or not. Everyone starts out at "not".

    Have you looked into teaching materials? Books like The First Day of School? Pedagogy is actually very similar across subjects, and you can apply techniques from math or history to art as well.


  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I think I would enjoy teaching how use the adobe suite and talk about design techniques, I would hate trying to teach "design" or anything harder than a high school art class.

  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    Any ACers going to be at PAX east this weekend? Eh? EHH??

  • ProspicienceProspicience The Raven King DenvemoloradoRegistered User regular
    Any ACers going to be at PAX east this weekend? Eh? EHH??

    Man, one of these years I'll make it... one of these years.

  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    Any ACers going to be at PAX east this weekend? Eh? EHH??

    Man, one of these years I'll make it... one of these years.

    This is the first year Ill be there more than one day. There's so much to see and do, I'm def looking forward to hitting the show with a game plan of how to spend day 2.

    Prospicience
  • SublimusSublimus Registered User regular
    As a creative, I've always found these shows to be underwhelming. They are by and large CONSUMER shows. "Look at all of this shit you can BUYYYYY".

    Pass.

    Went to a Schoolism workshop for the first time last year. Way more up my alley. All about creation.

    Just my two cents on it. (Though the PAX Prime Dev was OK)

    Prospicienceearthwormadam
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    @Angel_of_Bacon apparently my The Witness senses tingled today, and I realize this is from like two months ago, but that isn't the ending of the game.

    That is (re: the bit in your spoiler)
    part of a series of bonus videos that you can unlock and which are not required for anything unless you absolutely must have 100% completion. Like the cloud from Braid.

    That said, (re: end of the game)
    there is no real "ending" to The Witness, no grand mystery that gets solved. You just do the puzzles and then you're done, basically. That also said, the final area is a real brainbender if you enjoyed what they've done with the puzzles up until that point.

    icon.png facebookIcon.png tumblrIcon.png
    is this how nations are born
  • ProspicienceProspicience The Raven King DenvemoloradoRegistered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Sublimus wrote: »
    As a creative, I've always found these shows to be underwhelming. They are by and large CONSUMER shows. "Look at all of this shit you can BUYYYYY".

    Pass.

    Went to a Schoolism workshop for the first time last year. Way more up my alley. All about creation.

    Just my two cents on it. (Though the PAX Prime Dev was OK)

    Definitely seem to be more consumer oriented shows now, but I would like to go more for the community aspect.

    Prospicience on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    I'm reading through a book called Daily Rituals: How Artists Work, which is basically just a compilation of short descriptions of famous artists' daily routines. Halfway though, trends I've noticed so far:

    -Painters generally work the longest hours consistently
    -A lot of composers seem to have worked like 3 hours a day on actual composing, if not "generally whenever".
    -A surprising number of writers also maxed out at like 3 hours a day. Also, they're the most likely to mention alcohol as part of their daily routine.
    -Chocolate is good
    -If you're already wound up about the idea of privilege, you're probably going to pretty irritated at reading about people who are world famous historical figures now, that apparently spent most of their time reading their mail, walking around their neighborhood, going to cafes and having 3 hour lunches. If you're working two jobs to make ends meet, I'd imagine you'd want to go back in time and pile drive some of these jerks.

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    I'd be interested in that book if it also categorized them by their socioeconomic standings, honestly.

    3 hours tracks with studies of modern workers in offices, though, where we are apparently only about that productive, and spend the rest of day futzing around and socializing.

    Doodmanntapeslinger
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Iruka wrote: »
    I'd be interested in that book if it also categorized them by their socioeconomic standings, honestly.

    3 hours tracks with studies of modern workers in offices, though, where we are apparently only about that productive, and spend the rest of day futzing around and socializing.

    I would paint so much more if I had a 20-32hr work week.

    Productivity has doubled and wages have stagnated in the last 30 years, there is mathmatically no reason we can't do this. Ugh I hate how much people like just putting in worthless work hours.

    *flips table*

    *brings up 17th tab on "how to freelance for reals"*

  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    I'm reading through a book called Daily Rituals: How Artists Work, which is basically just a compilation of short descriptions of famous artists' daily routines. Halfway though, trends I've noticed so far:

    -Painters generally work the longest hours consistently
    -A lot of composers seem to have worked like 3 hours a day on actual composing, if not "generally whenever".
    -A surprising number of writers also maxed out at like 3 hours a day. Also, they're the most likely to mention alcohol as part of their daily routine.
    -Chocolate is good
    -If you're already wound up about the idea of privilege, you're probably going to pretty irritated at reading about people who are world famous historical figures now, that apparently spent most of their time reading their mail, walking around their neighborhood, going to cafes and having 3 hour lunches. If you're working two jobs to make ends meet, I'd imagine you'd want to go back in time and pile drive some of these jerks.

    Creative juices tend to run out pretty quickly though. I've been writing for over fifteen years, and I still rarely go more than 2 to 3 hours in a session. Similarly, when I'm programming, my "zone" (assuming I don't get knocked out by stupid emails or meetings) usually lasts a similar amount of time.

    With a rigorous schedule and passion, you can get six hours a day of good creative time, but I've never met anyone who could manage more. This is distinct from the grunt work - rendering, researching, answering emails, whatever.


  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    I think the usual amount of time I spend planning, sketching and revising probably totals around 2 to 3 hours, yeah. After I'm happy with the sketch laying down inks doesn't really require too much brain power so I can hit around 8 hours of work if need be. But usually 4 to 6 is about all I can do in one day before I feel like I'm about to go cross eyed and get a headache.

  • acadiaacadia Registered User regular
    Anyone have an opinion on fiverr? My first impression is that it's a massively saturated repository of desperate artists and the like, but aside from the likely imbalance of sellers to buyers (and the corresponding insane pricing), I don't know if there's any reason I shouldn't have an account there to pick up random freelance work.

    DoodmannLoisLane
Sign In or Register to comment.