You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
It wouldn't surprise me to see one of the important pieces of Lantern being banned, just because of how miserable the deck is for coverage. And, really, Wizards is trying immensely hard to make the game actually watchable and more mass appeal. It would fit in line with their "vision".
Also they may not, because the deck is fucking hilarious.
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
Titan Bloom has been a thing for a couple years.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
It wouldn't surprise me to see one of the important pieces of Lantern being banned, just because of how miserable the deck is for coverage. And, really, Wizards is trying immensely hard to make the game actually watchable and more mass appeal. It would fit in line with their "vision".
Also they may not, because the deck is fucking hilarious.
This would be just the worst reason to target a deck for bans
It wouldn't surprise me to see one of the important pieces of Lantern being banned, just because of how miserable the deck is for coverage. And, really, Wizards is trying immensely hard to make the game actually watchable and more mass appeal. It would fit in line with their "vision".
Also they may not, because the deck is fucking hilarious.
This would be just the worst reason to target a deck for bans
I agree, but if I recall correctly, they hit eggs with the ban they did for a similar reason. Coincidentally, Top is banned in Modern mostly for time issues, as well, which is kind of in a similar vein as coverage issues. Wizards is kind of also working against itself by both running their own coverage and running their own tournaments and gaming market. They should want to sell as much product as they can, but they also want a healthy play format, and I see the two as mutually exclusive in some facets. If they make their coverage better and get more people into the competitive scene (they can't, the competitive scene won't really grow, because there's not much room for it) they will make more money (they can already make more money by making MTGO less of a dumpster fire).
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
I agree with all this.
In some ways it's a lot like Bloom.
Neither is the best deck (bloom is probably slightly better, but that may just be a bias due to SEEING it more often), but both are actually quite good.
Both play Magic in a very different way and require unique skills to pilot and are hard to play. Much like that has kept Bloom from being over played, it'll have the same effect on Lantern. Interestingly, they are difficult for opposite reasons. Bloom's challenge comes from needing to know your own deck extremely well and how the lands interact so you know what to get, when to play Tolaria West, what land to play, etc. Where as Lantern required a very deep knowledge of your opponents decks, so you know what cards actually matter. Because there's often only a few and they REALLY matter.
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
I agree with all this.
In some ways it's a lot like Bloom.
Neither is the best deck (bloom is probably slightly better, but that may just be a bias due to SEEING it more often), but both are actually quite good.
Both play Magic in a very different way and require unique skills to pilot and are hard to play. Much like that has kept Bloom from being over played, it'll have the same effect on Lantern. Interestingly, they are difficult for opposite reasons. Bloom's challenge comes from needing to know your own deck extremely well and how the lands interact so you know what to get, when to play Tolaria West, what land to play, etc. Where as Lantern required a very deep knowledge of your opponents decks, so you know what cards actually matter. Because there's often only a few and they REALLY matter.
Lantern is closer to the Legacy dredge decks of yore. They're not really playing the same game of Magic as you are. It takes something really unusual to beat it, usually devoting a bunch of your sideboard to do so. Whether that warps a format or not usually depends on the landscape of the meta in your area, but generally speaking, jamming 4 Leyline of the Void into your sideboard is a pretty good way to have a favorable matchup to dredge. I'm not sure what card you can put 4 of into your board to give you a fair shake against Lantern.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
I agree with all this.
In some ways it's a lot like Bloom.
Neither is the best deck (bloom is probably slightly better, but that may just be a bias due to SEEING it more often), but both are actually quite good.
Both play Magic in a very different way and require unique skills to pilot and are hard to play. Much like that has kept Bloom from being over played, it'll have the same effect on Lantern. Interestingly, they are difficult for opposite reasons. Bloom's challenge comes from needing to know your own deck extremely well and how the lands interact so you know what to get, when to play Tolaria West, what land to play, etc. Where as Lantern required a very deep knowledge of your opponents decks, so you know what cards actually matter. Because there's often only a few and they REALLY matter.
Lantern is closer to the Legacy dredge decks of yore. They're not really playing the same game of Magic as you are. It takes something really unusual to beat it, usually devoting a bunch of your sideboard to do so. Whether that warps a format or not usually depends on the landscape of the meta in your area, but generally speaking, jamming 4 Leyline of the Void into your sideboard is a pretty good way to have a favorable matchup to dredge. I'm not sure what card you can put 4 of into your board to give you a fair shake against Lantern.
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
I agree with all this.
In some ways it's a lot like Bloom.
Neither is the best deck (bloom is probably slightly better, but that may just be a bias due to SEEING it more often), but both are actually quite good.
Both play Magic in a very different way and require unique skills to pilot and are hard to play. Much like that has kept Bloom from being over played, it'll have the same effect on Lantern. Interestingly, they are difficult for opposite reasons. Bloom's challenge comes from needing to know your own deck extremely well and how the lands interact so you know what to get, when to play Tolaria West, what land to play, etc. Where as Lantern required a very deep knowledge of your opponents decks, so you know what cards actually matter. Because there's often only a few and they REALLY matter.
Lantern is closer to the Legacy dredge decks of yore. They're not really playing the same game of Magic as you are. It takes something really unusual to beat it, usually devoting a bunch of your sideboard to do so. Whether that warps a format or not usually depends on the landscape of the meta in your area, but generally speaking, jamming 4 Leyline of the Void into your sideboard is a pretty good way to have a favorable matchup to dredge. I'm not sure what card you can put 4 of into your board to give you a fair shake against Lantern.
You know for a format regarded as "stale" and "unchanging", in my short time paying attention to Modern we've seen two totally new decks appear in Amulet Bloom and now Lantern Control (and the pros I've seen talk about it certainly seem to think Lantern is a real deck and not just a flash in the pan).
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
I agree with all this.
In some ways it's a lot like Bloom.
Neither is the best deck (bloom is probably slightly better, but that may just be a bias due to SEEING it more often), but both are actually quite good.
Both play Magic in a very different way and require unique skills to pilot and are hard to play. Much like that has kept Bloom from being over played, it'll have the same effect on Lantern. Interestingly, they are difficult for opposite reasons. Bloom's challenge comes from needing to know your own deck extremely well and how the lands interact so you know what to get, when to play Tolaria West, what land to play, etc. Where as Lantern required a very deep knowledge of your opponents decks, so you know what cards actually matter. Because there's often only a few and they REALLY matter.
Lantern is closer to the Legacy dredge decks of yore. They're not really playing the same game of Magic as you are. It takes something really unusual to beat it, usually devoting a bunch of your sideboard to do so. Whether that warps a format or not usually depends on the landscape of the meta in your area, but generally speaking, jamming 4 Leyline of the Void into your sideboard is a pretty good way to have a favorable matchup to dredge. I'm not sure what card you can put 4 of into your board to give you a fair shake against Lantern.
stony silence
As I've seen it, your chance of drawing Stony Silence is the same as their chance to draw Thoughtseize, and one costs less mana than the other. And then they have an equal chance of drawing Abrupt Decay to deal with it after it lands. But then once they get certain cards, your chances of drawing your answers diminishes. Sometimes you land the Stony Silence and they don't have Abrupt Decay or another answer, but their chances of having an answer is the same as you having your own.
Leyline just hits play without ever having a chance for your opponent to interact. In the past, some dredge builds have been literally unable to beat a resolved Leyline, whereas Lantern is never at a 100% loss to any resolved card.
It very well could be. I only follow Modern, I don't play it myself. I know Ghoulcaller's Bell gets around Leyline, but Codex Shredder and Ghirapur Aether Grid are stopped cold. I think, given no other workable win conditions, Lantern beats a Leyline of Sanctity by just milling you out and using Academy Ruins a few times so it doesn't deck itself?
It wouldn't surprise me to see one of the important pieces of Lantern being banned, just because of how miserable the deck is for coverage. And, really, Wizards is trying immensely hard to make the game actually watchable and more mass appeal. It would fit in line with their "vision".
Also they may not, because the deck is fucking hilarious.
This would be just the worst reason to target a deck for bans
I agree, but if I recall correctly, they hit eggs with the ban they did for a similar reason. Coincidentally, Top is banned in Modern mostly for time issues, as well, which is kind of in a similar vein as coverage issues. Wizards is kind of also working against itself by both running their own coverage and running their own tournaments and gaming market. They should want to sell as much product as they can, but they also want a healthy play format, and I see the two as mutually exclusive in some facets. If they make their coverage better and get more people into the competitive scene (they can't, the competitive scene won't really grow, because there's not much room for it) they will make more money (they can already make more money by making MTGO less of a dumpster fire).
Rhubarb rhubarb, peas and carrots etc.
Also, it's not entirely a matter of "what's best for coverage?" but also "what's best for making this event run well?"
What's that Legacy deck that goes through an infinite loop that perfectly arranges their deck to set up a kill? It sort of like an Eggs/Doomsday hybrid that predates Modern Eggs. Anyway, that's what I see as the closest analog to Lantern Control and FUCK THAT SHIT.
Yeah there are cards that hose Lantern. Stony Silence and Creeping Corrosion are great ones. Kohlagans Command, Destructive Revelry and Ancient Grudge are less generally back breaking (though if they hit a bridge in the right spot it's game over), but are solid cards too.
But Lantern is designed that you pretty much need those in your opening hand, or to draw them early. Then you have to dodge discard spells or, for Stony, Abrupt Decay. And if it's a 1-1 artifact kill spell (Command, Grudge, Revelery), you also have to dodge Skite and Welding Jar.
If you do all that, great!
But as the game goes on, with each passing turn, those answers become less and less relevant because you won't ever get to draw them. Because that's what Lantern Control DOES. Grudge at least has upside of flashback, but... Still.
The deck is certainly beatable. But it is impressively resistant to hate cards, much more than it seems at first glance.
The only decks I'd say match up "well" against Lantern Control are the ones that are so aggressive that nearly every card is a threat (burn, for instance).
It wouldn't surprise me to see one of the important pieces of Lantern being banned, just because of how miserable the deck is for coverage. And, really, Wizards is trying immensely hard to make the game actually watchable and more mass appeal. It would fit in line with their "vision".
Also they may not, because the deck is fucking hilarious.
This would be just the worst reason to target a deck for bans
I agree, but if I recall correctly, they hit eggs with the ban they did for a similar reason. Coincidentally, Top is banned in Modern mostly for time issues, as well, which is kind of in a similar vein as coverage issues. Wizards is kind of also working against itself by both running their own coverage and running their own tournaments and gaming market. They should want to sell as much product as they can, but they also want a healthy play format, and I see the two as mutually exclusive in some facets. If they make their coverage better and get more people into the competitive scene (they can't, the competitive scene won't really grow, because there's not much room for it) they will make more money (they can already make more money by making MTGO less of a dumpster fire).
Rhubarb rhubarb, peas and carrots etc.
Also, it's not entirely a matter of "what's best for coverage?" but also "what's best for making this event run well?"
What's that Legacy deck that goes through an infinite loop that perfectly arranges their deck to set up a kill? It sort of like an Eggs/Doomsday hybrid that predates Modern Eggs. Anyway, that's what I see as the closest analog to Lantern Control and FUCK THAT SHIT.
Four Horsemen is effectively not tournament legal because there is no way to guarantee you set the game state correctly on any given iteration of its sequence, so I wouldn't really compare it to Lantern, which is a highly reactive deck MO instead
Leyline of Sanctity does seem like a great SB card. The fact that you can just drop it on the board right off the bat means it dodges discard and library manipulation. If it's in your opener of course. In that way it's better than Stony Silence.
However it's worse in other ways. It's been pointed out that Ghoulcallers bell still works (however cutting out over half - sacing lanterns is nullified too - of their library control is huge game), but more importantly Codex Shredder can still target it's controller.
That's something that's often overlooked. Lantern Control is extremely adept at digging for its own answers. Just as much as it is at preventing you from drawing yours. Just pair of shredders/bells means, in desperate times, you can look at three cards every turn trying to find your Abrupt Decay/Natures Claim
Watching Elsik play the deck at OKC, you'll see that when he doesn't need to mill his opponents top card, he'll aggressively Mill himself with shredders at his opponents endstep until he finds a card he wants to draw.
Shredders and, to a lesser extent, Bells effectively double as T: Scry 1 once Lantern is in play. Which is pretty damn good. Except it's even better than that since the mill rocks put the card in the yard... where, if needed later, they can be effectively drawn with Academy Ruins.
The more I watch the deck in action (via Elsiks play at the GP, LSV's videos, or Paul Cheons stream - where Elsik is often in chat consulting), the more impressed I am. It's frighteningly resiliant, and rarely seems to be completely out of a game until the bitter end. Burn is by far the worst matchup and, is frankly, the only one Id call outright bad.
The Pro Tour is gonna be super exciting. We have to assume teams are gonna test the shit out of the deck - and we know at the very least Elsik will be running it. It'll be interesting to see how many players play Lantern and what kind of SB considerations used by others.
storm probably has an awesome lantern control matchup if they don't extract your grapeshot, because you're all cantrips and so forth.
past in flames could get real awkward, real fast.
storm probably has an awesome lantern control matchup if they don't extract your grapeshot, because you're all cantrips and so forth.
past in flames could get real awkward, real fast.
Storm is probably a great matchup, indeed. It's all Cantrips and flashback, which just screws with Lantern hard. And it has no way to deal with grapeshot outside of milling and Extraction.
It's probably an even better matchup than burn, but represents a far lower percentage of the average Metagame. Scapeshift is probably similarly tough.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Asked Elsik about Storm/Scapeshift just now (he's in Pauls chat). He agrees they are tough and he's currently testing 4x leyline of Sanctity in the board in place of Sun Droplets.
The argument for banning something from Lantern isn't that it's broken, it is that it makes for obscenely bad coverage when they are trying to heavily promote viewership.
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Asked Elsik about Storm/Scapeshift just now (he's in Pauls chat). He agrees they are tough and he's currently testing 4x leyline of Sanctity in the board in place of Sun Droplets.
yeah, i was thinking that scapeshift is probably fine against it too
The argument for banning something from Lantern isn't that it's broken, it is that it makes for obscenely bad coverage when they are trying to heavily promote viewership.
yeah but let's be fair, wotc is completely fucking incompetent at promoting viewership
it was funny on magic mics, they were talking about how kibler placed 10th in some hearthstone tournament over the weekend and made more money than he would have by placing first in a grand prix under the new grand prix rules
Posts
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/week-was/modern-insight-2015-09-18
@Whippy
Cheap and silly, there we go
Also they may not, because the deck is fucking hilarious.
i feel like lantern control is one of those decks that:
-is a real deck
-is hard enough to pilot that it will never make up a very large metagame percentage even if it is the best deck
-is not the best deck, but is respectable
i also feel like having a legitimate prison deck makes modern better, because it can represent more legacy archetypes.
Titan Bloom has been a thing for a couple years.
This would be just the worst reason to target a deck for bans
Steam | Twitter
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
I agree, but if I recall correctly, they hit eggs with the ban they did for a similar reason. Coincidentally, Top is banned in Modern mostly for time issues, as well, which is kind of in a similar vein as coverage issues. Wizards is kind of also working against itself by both running their own coverage and running their own tournaments and gaming market. They should want to sell as much product as they can, but they also want a healthy play format, and I see the two as mutually exclusive in some facets. If they make their coverage better and get more people into the competitive scene (they can't, the competitive scene won't really grow, because there's not much room for it) they will make more money (they can already make more money by making MTGO less of a dumpster fire).
Rhubarb rhubarb, peas and carrots etc.
I agree with all this.
In some ways it's a lot like Bloom.
Neither is the best deck (bloom is probably slightly better, but that may just be a bias due to SEEING it more often), but both are actually quite good.
Both play Magic in a very different way and require unique skills to pilot and are hard to play. Much like that has kept Bloom from being over played, it'll have the same effect on Lantern. Interestingly, they are difficult for opposite reasons. Bloom's challenge comes from needing to know your own deck extremely well and how the lands interact so you know what to get, when to play Tolaria West, what land to play, etc. Where as Lantern required a very deep knowledge of your opponents decks, so you know what cards actually matter. Because there's often only a few and they REALLY matter.
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
Lantern is closer to the Legacy dredge decks of yore. They're not really playing the same game of Magic as you are. It takes something really unusual to beat it, usually devoting a bunch of your sideboard to do so. Whether that warps a format or not usually depends on the landscape of the meta in your area, but generally speaking, jamming 4 Leyline of the Void into your sideboard is a pretty good way to have a favorable matchup to dredge. I'm not sure what card you can put 4 of into your board to give you a fair shake against Lantern.
Makes sense
Too bad the new BFZ duals are not in the colors I need at all
stony silence
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
kataki
Steam | Twitter
As I've seen it, your chance of drawing Stony Silence is the same as their chance to draw Thoughtseize, and one costs less mana than the other. And then they have an equal chance of drawing Abrupt Decay to deal with it after it lands. But then once they get certain cards, your chances of drawing your answers diminishes. Sometimes you land the Stony Silence and they don't have Abrupt Decay or another answer, but their chances of having an answer is the same as you having your own.
Leyline just hits play without ever having a chance for your opponent to interact. In the past, some dredge builds have been literally unable to beat a resolved Leyline, whereas Lantern is never at a 100% loss to any resolved card.
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
Also, it's not entirely a matter of "what's best for coverage?" but also "what's best for making this event run well?"
What's that Legacy deck that goes through an infinite loop that perfectly arranges their deck to set up a kill? It sort of like an Eggs/Doomsday hybrid that predates Modern Eggs. Anyway, that's what I see as the closest analog to Lantern Control and FUCK THAT SHIT.
Yeah there are cards that hose Lantern. Stony Silence and Creeping Corrosion are great ones. Kohlagans Command, Destructive Revelry and Ancient Grudge are less generally back breaking (though if they hit a bridge in the right spot it's game over), but are solid cards too.
But Lantern is designed that you pretty much need those in your opening hand, or to draw them early. Then you have to dodge discard spells or, for Stony, Abrupt Decay. And if it's a 1-1 artifact kill spell (Command, Grudge, Revelery), you also have to dodge Skite and Welding Jar.
If you do all that, great!
But as the game goes on, with each passing turn, those answers become less and less relevant because you won't ever get to draw them. Because that's what Lantern Control DOES. Grudge at least has upside of flashback, but... Still.
The deck is certainly beatable. But it is impressively resistant to hate cards, much more than it seems at first glance.
Four Horsemen is effectively not tournament legal because there is no way to guarantee you set the game state correctly on any given iteration of its sequence, so I wouldn't really compare it to Lantern, which is a highly reactive deck MO instead
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
However it's worse in other ways. It's been pointed out that Ghoulcallers bell still works (however cutting out over half - sacing lanterns is nullified too - of their library control is huge game), but more importantly Codex Shredder can still target it's controller.
That's something that's often overlooked. Lantern Control is extremely adept at digging for its own answers. Just as much as it is at preventing you from drawing yours. Just pair of shredders/bells means, in desperate times, you can look at three cards every turn trying to find your Abrupt Decay/Natures Claim
Shredders and, to a lesser extent, Bells effectively double as T: Scry 1 once Lantern is in play. Which is pretty damn good. Except it's even better than that since the mill rocks put the card in the yard... where, if needed later, they can be effectively drawn with Academy Ruins.
The more I watch the deck in action (via Elsiks play at the GP, LSV's videos, or Paul Cheons stream - where Elsik is often in chat consulting), the more impressed I am. It's frighteningly resiliant, and rarely seems to be completely out of a game until the bitter end. Burn is by far the worst matchup and, is frankly, the only one Id call outright bad.
The Pro Tour is gonna be super exciting. We have to assume teams are gonna test the shit out of the deck - and we know at the very least Elsik will be running it. It'll be interesting to see how many players play Lantern and what kind of SB considerations used by others.
past in flames could get real awkward, real fast.
Steam | Twitter
Storm is probably a great matchup, indeed. It's all Cantrips and flashback, which just screws with Lantern hard. And it has no way to deal with grapeshot outside of milling and Extraction.
It's probably an even better matchup than burn, but represents a far lower percentage of the average Metagame. Scapeshift is probably similarly tough.
or another green blisterpod with a different name
I need to run more blisterpods
For now.
Like I said, we'll see what happens at the PT.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
yeah, i was thinking that scapeshift is probably fine against it too
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
yeah but let's be fair, wotc is completely fucking incompetent at promoting viewership
Magic needs to get it together with that stuff, but blizzard also doesn't have to spend any money on production, shipping, etc
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated