As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Paradox Can Into Space With [Stellaris]

1910121415100

Posts

  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    Loving the musical direction of the game.

    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
    ZibblsnrtBasil
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    I'm planning on going full Space Federation/Galactic council. All races shall coexist in harmony, in an interstellar society built on rationality and science.

    Of course, the first warring empire, rogue AI or other interstellar threat that comes along will immediately wipe the floor with my peacekeeping starfleet and destroy all I have endeavored to build, but hopefully the ride there will be interesting!

    You need to invest more heavily in Peace Guns, Harmony Torpedoes, and Joy Beams.

    That way, when the first warring empire shows up, they can have the myriad benefits of peaceful coexistence and friendly cooperation explained to them at length.

    I bet they'll be so encouraged that they can't wait to join your party!

    And if they won't, then it might be time for ... The Utopia Device.

    I legitimately hope that it's possible to solve problems via Picard Monologue instead of gun batteries. It would make Stellaris one of very few games with such an option.


    Unfortunately, what's been shown so far doesn't make me hopeful. :|

    One can still hope - Paradox-style decision-chain events often don't get communicated well in a couple of screenshots, and at least trying to push options in that sort of direction as opposed to pure basicgamemechanics stuff is probably one of the company's more interesting strengths. (They're also one of the only companies where "well, I'm sure there'll be DLC" is actually a reasonable expectation at this point.)
    Loving the musical direction of the game.

    I'm enjoying that the composer specifically singled out unusual rhythms like the 7/4 time that first song uses as a means of grabbing the player. (Mass Effect did that well at times too, I thought.) The synth-heavy feel's kinda growing on me too, given it's one of those standard science-fiction audio things by now..

    ... Also really enjoying game background tracks that aren't just 90 seconds long or something.

    Elvenshae
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Vic wrote: »
    I'm planning on going full Space Federation/Galactic council. All races shall coexist in harmony, in an interstellar society built on rationality and science.

    Of course, the first warring empire, rogue AI or other interstellar threat that comes along will immediately wipe the floor with my peacekeeping starfleet and destroy all I have endeavored to build, but hopefully the ride there will be interesting!

    Simulate playing as the federation by playing on easy mode with console commands turned on.

    Give yourself infinite resources to Simulate their post-scarcity society. Give yourself a tremendous tech advantage so that your research vessels that are filled to the brim with research equipment, expansive recreational facilities, living space suitable for the well rounded upbringing of children and families, and armed only as an after thought can go toe-to-toe with with purpose built war ships that were made by the war people whose entire culture revolves around being good at war.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
    DonnictonBasilnefffffffffffCommander Zooma5ehrenEnclaveofGnomesSmurph
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Frankly, if my civilization doesn't get taken over by AI and spiral out into a galatic wide conflict that cause's a new dark age I'm doing something wrong.

    Also, will fallen empires be playable?

    Basil
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    What I want to know is if I can become Emperor Palpatine, be elected with supreme emergency powers, and become Emperor of the Federation... Because if not... I want to be. And if the AI can, and I'm just some piddly system in the crosshairs of galactic politics... even better.

    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
  • Anarchy Rules!Anarchy Rules! Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Loving the musical direction of the game.

    I'm enjoying that the composer specifically singled out unusual rhythms like the 7/4 time that first song uses as a means of grabbing the player. (Mass Effect did that well at times too, I thought.) The synth-heavy feel's kinda growing on me too, given it's one of those standard science-fiction audio things by now..

    ... Also really enjoying game background tracks that aren't just 90 seconds long or something.

    No matter how good the soundtrack to Stellaris is, chances are that'll end up listening to the Mass Effect, Deus Ex as well as Moon and Interstellar soundtracks endlessly

  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Frankly, if my civilization doesn't get taken over by AI and spiral out into a galatic wide conflict that cause's a new dark age I'm doing something wrong.

    Also, will fallen empires be playable?

    From all I can tell, no. Fallen Empires are there essentially as an NPC nation meant to challenge/thwart/block players.

    Elvenshae
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    Frankly, if my civilization doesn't get taken over by AI and spiral out into a galatic wide conflict that cause's a new dark age I'm doing something wrong.

    Also, will fallen empires be playable?
    Wiz confirmed No to that question. Basically the game isn't designed for it, so playing one wouldn't really be fun for most players.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Frankly, if my civilization doesn't get taken over by AI and spiral out into a galatic wide conflict that cause's a new dark age I'm doing something wrong.

    Also, will fallen empires be playable?
    Wiz confirmed No to that question. Basically the game isn't designed for it, so playing one wouldn't really be fun for most players.

    Although given Paradox's past games, I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a couple of lines of code modding to enable fallen empires for the player. Quite how well the game would then support playing them is another matter!

    Fleur de AlysRhan9ElvenshaeJusticeforPluto
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    A solution to wanting to play a Fallen Empire might also be conquering one and integrating their dominant species into your Empire, and then gradually making them the leaders. Albeit probably with a lot of time, blood, treasure and hand wringing on all sides.

    488W936.png
    BasilRhan9Elvenshae
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    A solution to wanting to play a Fallen Empire might also be conquering one and integrating their dominant species into your Empire, and then gradually making them the leaders. Albeit probably with a lot of time, blood, treasure and hand wringing on all sides.

    And somehow, we'll still probably end up with a horse emperor.

    AxenElvenshaeCampyCommander ZoomCorehealerTakelLord_Asmodeus
  • The_InfidelThe_Infidel Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Frankly, if my civilization doesn't get taken over by AI and spiral out into a galatic wide conflict that cause's a new dark age I'm doing something wrong.

    Also, will fallen empires be playable?
    Wiz confirmed No to that question. Basically the game isn't designed for it, so playing one wouldn't really be fun for most players.

    Although given Paradox's past games, I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a couple of lines of code modding to enable fallen empires for the player. Quite how well the game would then support playing them is another matter!

    This is in fact exactly what he said. There is an on/off in an .ini file or something that can let players access them as an empire type....

    Fleur de AlysBasilCampy
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    And then there is also their potential expansion as a DLC down the line as well.

    ElvenshaeRhan9
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    Yeah. If it's clamored for by fans loudly enough, Paradox will sit down and design a way for it to work and put it in a DLC. Something like a "restore your empire" chain that the AI would never really pull off but players could do to turn around and become competitive (sort of like American natives in EU4 but a lot less harsh maybe).

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
    Basil
  • GaryOGaryO Registered User regular
    Yeah. If it's clamored for by fans loudly enough, Paradox will sit down and design a way for it to work and put it in a DLC. Something like a "restore your empire" chain that the AI would never really pull off but players could do to turn around and become competitive (sort of like American natives in EU4 but a lot less harsh maybe).

    Cant remember where I read it but I swear I saw one of the developers say there is a small chance an ai Fallen Empire can become resurgent.
    Maybe a good end-game event, a Fallen Empire has decided to expand again, and the younger races have to team up o stop them, or knuckle under and become a vassal.

    Fleur de AlysBasilLord_Asmodeus
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    I imagine the Crusader Kings 2 mechanics for the Byzantine Empire could be adapted into something for Fallen Empires. Make them the "deep politics" option, where your big task is turning factions against each other while plotting to rewaken your empire and return to glory.

    Phillishere on
    Corehealerdurandal4532a5ehrenRhan9
  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    That's a neat thing. Between Crusader Kings and Europa in all their incarnations, there are a great deal of tested mechanics to look at and draw from.

    9KmX8eN.jpg
    ElvenshaePhillishereRhan9
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Basil wrote: »
    That's a neat thing. Between Crusader Kings and Europa in all their incarnations, there are a great deal of tested mechanics to look at and draw from.

    My big hope for DLC is that they do something like mixing new scenarios with the extra mechanics. I'd love if each pack focused on a Not-Star Trek, Not-Dune, Not-Startide Rising, Not-Star Wars, etc. scenario that deepens the space opera possibilities for each playthrough.

    Imagine playing The Federation facing off against WH40K while the fallen empire next door is in the middle of a Space Samurai with Laser Swords civil war.

    ElvenshaeBasilSmurph
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    btw, stellaris stream of the next blorg episodes 2 3 and 4 are up on youtube.

    a4irovn5uqjp.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Are they making space great again today?

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Basil wrote: »
    That's a neat thing. Between Crusader Kings and Europa in all their incarnations, there are a great deal of tested mechanics to look at and draw from.

    My big hope for DLC is that they do something like mixing new scenarios with the extra mechanics. I'd love if each pack focused on a Not-Star Trek, Not-Dune, Not-Startide Rising, Not-Star Wars, etc. scenario that deepens the space opera possibilities for each playthrough.

    Imagine playing The Federation facing off against WH40K while the fallen empire next door is in the middle of a Space Samurai with Laser Swords civil war.

    They just need to put in any mechanics from various sci-fi properties with at totally-not-referential name as DLC, for stuff that isn't in yet. Basically Star Trek vs. Star Wars vs. W40K vs. Cthulhu and Friends in Space etc.

    Although if they want to go very interesting and ambitious, they'll try to implement some sort of lovecraftian mythos stuff as playable. I'd be perfectly happy with that stuff as just a looming threat too.

    durandal4532
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Basil wrote: »
    That's a neat thing. Between Crusader Kings and Europa in all their incarnations, there are a great deal of tested mechanics to look at and draw from.

    My big hope for DLC is that they do something like mixing new scenarios with the extra mechanics. I'd love if each pack focused on a Not-Star Trek, Not-Dune, Not-Startide Rising, Not-Star Wars, etc. scenario that deepens the space opera possibilities for each playthrough.

    Imagine playing The Federation facing off against WH40K while the fallen empire next door is in the middle of a Space Samurai with Laser Swords civil war.

    They just need to put in any mechanics from various sci-fi properties with at totally-not-referential name as DLC, for stuff that isn't in yet. Basically Star Trek vs. Star Wars vs. W40K vs. Cthulhu and Friends in Space etc.

    Although if they want to go very interesting and ambitious, they'll try to implement some sort of lovecraftian mythos stuff as playable. I'd be perfectly happy with that stuff as just a looming threat too.

    They've hinted that the warp drive crisis ("Oops, you have torn a hole in reality!") is Lovecraftian, or at least Chaosy.

    CampyElvenshaeDrakedurandal4532Rhan9
  • GaryOGaryO Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    Are they making space great again today?

    https://twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive you can check out their last stream here. They even got a party invite!

    Corehealer
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    A solution to wanting to play a Fallen Empire might also be conquering one and integrating their dominant species into your Empire, and then gradually making them the leaders. Albeit probably with a lot of time, blood, treasure and hand wringing on all sides.

    And somehow, we'll still probably end up with a horse emperor.

    The Horsicon Armada will crush the inferior races of the galaxy beneath our hooves. They will cry out for mercy, and we will whisper... neigh.

    ElvenshaeDockenCesareB
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    a4irovn5uqjp.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    Aww man. I was really excited about this and I love everything I've seen...until I found out you can't control your ships in combat. I've tried to enjoy space 4x games where you can't I just endup not having fun. So I will have to pass now. :( A shame, it just looks SO good otherwise.

    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    Aww man. I was really excited about this and I love everything I've seen...until I found out you can't control your ships in combat. I've tried to enjoy space 4x games where you can't I just endup not having fun. So I will have to pass now. :( A shame, it just looks SO good otherwise.

    The game is a descendant of Masters of Orion and Civilization. Directly controlling armies in combat isn't a part of its lineage.

    durandal4532Rhan9
  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    Aww man. I was really excited about this and I love everything I've seen...until I found out you can't control your ships in combat. I've tried to enjoy space 4x games where you can't I just endup not having fun. So I will have to pass now. :( A shame, it just looks SO good otherwise.

    The game is a descendant of Masters of Orion and Civilization. Directly controlling armies in combat isn't a part of its lineage.

    Well, ok? I just didn't know that and I am sad because it's a deal breaker for me. :/

    And actually you can control your ships directly in MoO. Civ's combat is entirely different so I wouldn't compare the two, though I really like Civ5's combat.

    DarkMecha on
    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
    EnclaveofGnomes
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
    Rhan9
  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.

    DarkMecha on
    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.

    I understand what you're getting at, particularly after the atrocious laziness that was Endless Space's combat system. However even so Paradox games usually have such an obscene amount of depth to them that there's a very solid chance the game as a whole will make up for it.

    DarkMechaEnclaveofGnomes
  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.

    I understand what you're getting at, particularly after the atrocious laziness that was Endless Space's combat system. However even so Paradox games usually have such an obscene amount of depth to them that there's a very solid chance the game as a whole will make up for it.

    Man I wanted to like Endless Space so much. The combat system in it actually had some really cool ideas, but was weirdly implemented. Being forced to close range doesn't make sense, for example.

    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Honestly I kind of never want direct control of a fight. It's always more efficient and yet it's always soul-crushingly boring by the mid to end game in grand strategy stuff. Choosing to either knowingly throw a fight and lose double the troops or take control for a 20-minute fight you're guaranteed to win is no fun at all.

    Also though yeah whatever, if you're not certain you'd like a Paradox style game probably grab one of the many older ones that are $2 instead of the newest one.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
    DrakePhillishereElvenshaeGennenalyse RuebenTakelBloodsheedRhan9Dignified PauperEdith Upwards
  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    I've gotten plenty of fun out of CK2 and EU without direct combat...but at the same time making a big deal about customizing your ships and then not giving you the chance to actually play with them is pretty damn annoying.

    It's the part of endless space that really rubbed me the wrong way.

    Phoenix-D
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Good job! Together with the Stellaris community you have unlocked all rewards tied to our collaborative science mission. Stay tuned for more information on how to claim your well deserved items.

    Check out https://launchpad.stellarisgame.com/faq for more information

    Let's make space great again

    theSquid
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.
    What I'm trying to say here is that Paradox doesn't make 4X games. Not really. They have a lot in common with the 4X subgenre, but they're more accurately described as "Grand Strategy" games, or GSGs.

    Stellaris is probably the most 4X of their games, especially in the early period, but mid and late game look to be fairly typical Paradox GSG fare, just in space and evolved to the next level.

    4X games need great combat as part of the overall design. There's a notable tactical layer to the genre. GSG games replace this layer with other strategic layers that 4X games either very lightly brush on or ignore entirely. As such, the tactical layers aren't really missed at all.

    The difference between GSG and 4X is kind of similar to the difference between 4X and RTS. You don't really expect to have Warcraft 3 combat in Endless Legend, for example, and it would feel awkward and weird if they tried to shove it in.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
    CampyCorehealerElvenshaeRhan9DrakeBasil
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    The Sauce wrote: »
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.
    What I'm trying to say here is that Paradox doesn't make 4X games. Not really. They have a lot in common with the 4X subgenre, but they're more accurately described as "Grand Strategy" games, or GSGs.

    Stellaris is probably the most 4X of their games, especially in the early period, but mid and late game look to be fairly typical Paradox GSG fare, just in space and evolved to the next level.

    4X games need great combat as part of the overall design. There's a notable tactical layer to the genre. GSG games replace this layer with other strategic layers that 4X games either very lightly brush on or ignore entirely. As such, the tactical layers aren't really missed at all.

    The difference between GSG and 4X is kind of similar to the difference between 4X and RTS. You don't really expect to have Warcraft 3 combat in Endless Legend, for example, and it would feel awkward and weird if they tried to shove it in.

    The big difference between Paradox games and others in the genre is that Paradox doesn't really want you to take over the world. You can minmax the game to do so, but the meat is the interplay between strong and weak states. It's just as much fun to play as a weak nation playing its neighboring rivals against each other as it is to play a juggernaut.

    That means that warfare takes a backseat to politics depending on the nation, with some nation never even going to war.

    Corehealer
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    I really like the look of this game exactly because it speaks to me, and says that I can either choose to go full military conquest mode and crush everything with fleets and troops, start small and gradually play politics in my favour to conquer everything Machiavelli style, forgo conquest to just explore and research technology so as to surpass others in science rather then in size, or do none of those things and just make silly objectives for myself or start a game and roll with the punches. Like seeing what anomaly pops up and deal with it in all the above scenarios, or just making a game to see what happens exactly for that reason.

    You can choose a lot more what your goals are then you can in a lot of 4x games which are always more of a straight track to a predetermined victory condition, be it domination, technological superiority, social coercion of others, etc. This game lets you have those victories too if you want them, but you can also make up your own win conditions like you could in EU4 and CK2.

    488W936.png
  • DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    The Sauce wrote: »
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.
    What I'm trying to say here is that Paradox doesn't make 4X games. Not really. They have a lot in common with the 4X subgenre, but they're more accurately described as "Grand Strategy" games, or GSGs.

    Stellaris is probably the most 4X of their games, especially in the early period, but mid and late game look to be fairly typical Paradox GSG fare, just in space and evolved to the next level.

    4X games need great combat as part of the overall design. There's a notable tactical layer to the genre. GSG games replace this layer with other strategic layers that 4X games either very lightly brush on or ignore entirely. As such, the tactical layers aren't really missed at all.

    The difference between GSG and 4X is kind of similar to the difference between 4X and RTS. You don't really expect to have Warcraft 3 combat in Endless Legend, for example, and it would feel awkward and weird if they tried to shove it in.

    Alright well, I guess you've convinced me the grand strategy genre isn't for me. Good to know, as I kind of thought GSG and 4x were mostly the same genre.

    DarkMecha on
    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    The Sauce wrote: »
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Have you played Paradox games before? Because they have layers to them that other strategy games, particularly 4x titles, never get anywhere close to. You may find it fun in a new sort of way, like finding a new genre of game.

    I tried to get into Crusader Kings 2 but found it very boring.
    (Wait no sorry, confused that with King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame for some reason.) I might still give Stellaris a chance, but I just really enjoy having tactical control of the battles. I know, tall order when attached to the enormity of a 4x game. However the battles don't have much meaning to me if I'm just watching them, and I'm here mostly for the waging of interstellar war victory.
    What I'm trying to say here is that Paradox doesn't make 4X games. Not really. They have a lot in common with the 4X subgenre, but they're more accurately described as "Grand Strategy" games, or GSGs.

    Stellaris is probably the most 4X of their games, especially in the early period, but mid and late game look to be fairly typical Paradox GSG fare, just in space and evolved to the next level.

    4X games need great combat as part of the overall design. There's a notable tactical layer to the genre. GSG games replace this layer with other strategic layers that 4X games either very lightly brush on or ignore entirely. As such, the tactical layers aren't really missed at all.

    The difference between GSG and 4X is kind of similar to the difference between 4X and RTS. You don't really expect to have Warcraft 3 combat in Endless Legend, for example, and it would feel awkward and weird if they tried to shove it in.

    The big difference between Paradox games and others in the genre is that Paradox doesn't really want you to take over the world. You can minmax the game to do so, but the meat is the interplay between strong and weak states. It's just as much fun to play as a weak nation playing its neighboring rivals against each other as it is to play a juggernaut.

    That means that warfare takes a backseat to politics depending on the nation, with some nation never even going to war.

    Although they did say specifically with Stellaris the equal starting positions change this pretty significantly. And the win/lose isn't tied to keeping track of a line of succession, but more standard 4X conditions.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
This discussion has been closed.