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A Thread 4 Talking About the F4nt4stic 4

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Posts

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    The problem I see with the FF in terms of making them relevant (until Hickman) has always been they suffer the most out of creator changes. It happens all the time on stuff when a new person comes onboard, things move back to a starting point, but with the 4 it resets hard all the time. Just from Heroes Return on, Lobdell lead to Claremont easily enough, Pacheco and Loeb paid a little lip service to it, Waid started over twice basically because there was the Marvel Knights stuff, JMS, Millar and Hitch...

    I think what really is the problem is because of the starting point, you have to establish them at their core, which is the four +2 now, before you do something else, whereas with Avengers and X-Men you can simply switch out the characters at the drop of a hat every creative shuffle.

    This definitely rings true for me. Of all the superhero teams and ensembles, this one is more or less fixed. Some occasional subs but your starting lineup really doesn't change because then it's not REALLY the F4 anymore.

    And because of Reed's broader stories across 616 and beyond, he inevitably gets sucked into crossover events and the F4 dynamic is really compromised because of that. Like the build up to Civil War was basically Reed Reed Reed and Reed, which interestingly is why Hickman came on board to restore some semblance of a family story.

    Although I agree that a lot of FF runs focus too much on Reed, I gotta say, the runs that put Reed on the backburner tend to be the worst.

    The DeFalco and Englehart runs are just... ugh. So bad. So very bad.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    The problem I see with the FF in terms of making them relevant (until Hickman) has always been they suffer the most out of creator changes. It happens all the time on stuff when a new person comes onboard, things move back to a starting point, but with the 4 it resets hard all the time. Just from Heroes Return on, Lobdell lead to Claremont easily enough, Pacheco and Loeb paid a little lip service to it, Waid started over twice basically because there was the Marvel Knights stuff, JMS, Millar and Hitch...

    I think what really is the problem is because of the starting point, you have to establish them at their core, which is the four +2 now, before you do something else, whereas with Avengers and X-Men you can simply switch out the characters at the drop of a hat every creative shuffle.

    This definitely rings true for me. Of all the superhero teams and ensembles, this one is more or less fixed. Some occasional subs but your starting lineup really doesn't change because then it's not REALLY the F4 anymore.

    And because of Reed's broader stories across 616 and beyond, he inevitably gets sucked into crossover events and the F4 dynamic is really compromised because of that. Like the build up to Civil War was basically Reed Reed Reed and Reed, which interestingly is why Hickman came on board to restore some semblance of a family story.

    And Reed gets Flanderized a lot in those stories, too.

  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    I feel like the Illuminati, while interesting, really did hurt a lot of the characters in the end.

    XBOX: VIVIXENNEXIVIV | TWITTER | BATTLENET: VIVIXENNE#1433 | YOUTUBE
    Fencingsax
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel up to my see thru butt in wily espionage Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    The problem I see with the FF in terms of making them relevant (until Hickman) has always been they suffer the most out of creator changes. It happens all the time on stuff when a new person comes onboard, things move back to a starting point, but with the 4 it resets hard all the time. Just from Heroes Return on, Lobdell lead to Claremont easily enough, Pacheco and Loeb paid a little lip service to it, Waid started over twice basically because there was the Marvel Knights stuff, JMS, Millar and Hitch...

    I think what really is the problem is because of the starting point, you have to establish them at their core, which is the four +2 now, before you do something else, whereas with Avengers and X-Men you can simply switch out the characters at the drop of a hat every creative shuffle.

    This definitely rings true for me. Of all the superhero teams and ensembles, this one is more or less fixed. Some occasional subs but your starting lineup really doesn't change because then it's not REALLY the F4 anymore.

    And because of Reed's broader stories across 616 and beyond, he inevitably gets sucked into crossover events and the F4 dynamic is really compromised because of that. Like the build up to Civil War was basically Reed Reed Reed and Reed, which interestingly is why Hickman came on board to restore some semblance of a family story.

    And Reed gets Flanderized a lot in those stories, too.

    Reed Flanders. Mr. Fan-diddly-tastic.

    cauvjy2q47n7.jpg
    NeoTomazekebeau
  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    is it weirding anyone else out that Johnny is dating Medusa when he used to date Crystal

    I feel like that's totally a COMIC BOOKS sort of thing, but eh

    XBOX: VIVIXENNEXIVIV | TWITTER | BATTLENET: VIVIXENNE#1433 | YOUTUBE
    RingoFencingsaxDex Dynamo
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    is it weirding anyone else out that Johnny is dating Medusa when he used to date Crystal

    I feel like that's totally a COMIC BOOKS sort of thing, but eh

    And Crystal is supposed to be coming back, sooo....

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    is it weirding anyone else out that Johnny is dating Medusa when he used to date Crystal

    I feel like that's totally a COMIC BOOKS sort of thing, but eh

    Honestly, I'm pretty sure this is nowhere near the first time Johnny's dated a woman after dating her sister.

    Ash-Housewares
  • Mr.SunshineMr.Sunshine Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    is it weirding anyone else out that Johnny is dating Medusa when he used to date Crystal

    I feel like that's totally a COMIC BOOKS sort of thing, but eh

    Honestly, I'm pretty sure this is nowhere near the first time Johnny's dated a woman after dating her sister.

    And if it is... ALL NEW! ALL DIFFERENT!

    Harry Dresden
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    I feel like the Illuminati, while interesting, really did hurt a lot of the characters in the end.

    Hickman's Illuminati, and some of Bendis' too, were fine

    Civil War and to a lesser extent WWH were the culprit there

    FencingsaxHarry DresdenTransporter
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