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Smash Bros. is Video Games: The Game: The Reckoning

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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    Hey guys Rorus is not too bad with Mewtwo

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    AbsurdPropositionAbsurdProposition Registered User regular
    Generally speaking, the more a character relies on precise reads to function, the less good they are. Doesn't mean they can't win, but it means they have to take more risks to get the same distance that the top characters get by covering multiple options with relative safety.

    Then again, I don't feel like any character is straight garbage in this game. Not all of them are tourney viable, but I can't say any are bad enough where you assume your opponent is sandbagging if they pick them.

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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    @Bobkins Flymo I gotta bail. More than enough ass-beating for one night, I think. GGs!

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Good games, Greasy. I got a few replays long enough to upload.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    @Bobkins Flymo Any chance you have time for two or three more? We haven't fought in an age

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Maybe a few games

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    but if you can outwit your opponent you can destroy them like with no one else.

    is there anyone on the roster to whom this doesn't apply

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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    Good games, Greasy. I got a few replays long enough to upload.

    oh yeah, I should upload the one match I actually squeaked a victory out of

    edit; nvm it's too long

    GreasyKidsStuff on
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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    but if you can outwit your opponent you can destroy them like with no one else.

    is there anyone on the roster to whom this doesn't apply

    The difference is that Ganondorf is designed to create that pressure and his punishes are the most severe in the roster

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    Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Ganon as a character is bad

    Doesn't mean people can't play him well
    Ganon is good online

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
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    McFlynnMcFlynn Registered User regular
    So I beat this guy on Pikachu as Mewtwo, and he calls me CAMPER and then switches to Sheik (because playing one of the best characters in the game against one of the worst is clearly just and honorable?) and then despite beating me up manages to choke and SD.

    Naturally, I switch to my delightful "GoodGames!" tag, to which he gives an anguished NO and I promptly leave.

    I had a similar experience today. Opponent is one of those players that has one or two combos memorized super well, but sucks at anything outside of that. Along with that, he's an extreme over-roller who spams projectiles like crazy. (Toon Link and Ness.)

    He beat my sucky new experiment character a few times and taunted just a little too much for my taste, so I went Dedede. I tried my best to humiliate him and when he finally quit he had a big spiel about me needing practice and spamming too much. Like seriously, dude had a solid paragraph of tags about how I was horrible and only won because I spam. Dude used more arrows as Toon Link than I did in all of Wind Waker.

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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    I think that, while playing against Rorus, I learned that I rely waaaaay too much on jumping around my opponent and trying to land aerials when it doesn't make sense to, especially since I'm not very good at short-hopping.

    There's plenty of situations where, rather than just move away and get to the ground as fast as I can, I telegraph these big dairs that I aim at my opponent's head, but they always block. It's stupid and always ends with me being grabbed/punished. I gotta work on that somehow.

    edit: also, I am terrible at approaching characters with easily spammed projectiles ie. Mewtwo

    GreasyKidsStuff on
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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited August 2015
    I am still terrible at fighting Mewtwo

    Edit; But god damn is he light

    Wyborn on
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Now you see why Mewtwo is not good

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Nah I think I just read you in that match

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Now you see why Ganon is not good

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Nah I think you just read me in that match

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    RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    I'll play a game or two if anyone is up for it

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Now you see why Mario is not good

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Now you see why Ness is complete bullshit.

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    ...I have barely played Mario.

    That seems like a bad matchup for Ganon

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Hey, it's past midnight here. I gotta go to bed.

    You managed to rope me in for way more than two or three games

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Yeah I didn't mean to play that long either. I think we both started to lose focus at the end there

    Really good games, though! It's been too long. You been playing Mewtwo a lot? You seem really comfortable with their moveset

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I just picked him up, but I'd been playing him on FG for maybe an hour and then a bunch of games with Greasy

    I feel like that final KO Punch was super lucky on my part.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Not lucky - moves that ignore shield are pretty much my biggest Achilles heel, because I will shield pretty much anything at any time for any reason. I felt it coming about ten frames before you fired it off, and I closed my eyes, and I waited

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Have you never played versus the Marios?

    I cannot explain why my doc play was so vicious. I seriously don't play those two and just copied what I see in videos. Granted, they have some seriously horseshit frame data that would give Ganon some grief.

    Holy fuck is Doc's recovery ass though. Worse than Ganon's?

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Doc's recovery fights it out with Mac's for the worst in the game, yeah

    And it was just down to frame data, and I haven't fought a Mario in so long it's painful. I don't know! I didn't have time to adjust

    Ness apparently has a toolset where I don't need to care about Mario, but Ganondorf needs me to know how the other guy plays or I'm going to have a bad time

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    I Win SwordfightsI Win Swordfights all the traits of greatness starlight at my feetRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Ganon as a character is bad

    Doesn't mean people can't play him well
    Ganon is good online

    yep good online, usable offline but you gotta be on your game the whole time

    i wrote out a big long boring post that came after that statement but i realized no one would give a shit

    so i'ma just stick with that

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I'd read it!

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    I Win SwordfightsI Win Swordfights all the traits of greatness starlight at my feetRegistered User regular
    I guess I should have elaborated that I didn't think anyone would give a shit cuz I feel like I've said it before but basically:

    ganon has some good options and tools but he's not a character that can rest on his laurels, if you pick ganondorf you need to be ready to work the whole time whereas the top tiers can compensate for weaknesses

    take roy vs marth for instance: when i'm playing marth i need to make every decision count because my best kill moves are either my smash attacks which really aren't that fantastic or a tipper which requires precision and forethought because if they're running from me my chase options aren't phenomenal and if they're rushing me down i'm getting weak hits no matter what

    with roy, not only am i the one rushing them down, but i get kills all the time that surprise me! like i'll get an f-tilt close to the hilt and all of the sudden they'll be dead!

    plus the OoS utility of his up-b compared to dolphin slash, how little of a commitment his neutral b is, his amazing up-smash especially compared to marth's, consistent and worthwhile followups off of grabs, and how much easier it is to achieve his ideal spacing as opposed to marth

    as marth stands right now after all the patches, i think he's just at lower-mid tier but i wouldn't call him a bad character because there are a lot of things i can do with him and i can beat a lot of people with him and it isn't exactly a struggle, it just requires better play and more focus and a tighter game plan than when i bust out The Boy

    ganondorf and falcon are similar. ganon has a specific gameplan he's good at and when you make your way in and execute it it's devastating and imo a good ganondorf can take on most of the cast and be very scary doing it, but falcon is much more freeform and suffers less from his bad choices, in my experience. this experience being my brother the falcon main as well as my friend kevin the falcon/shulk main, both very good and intelligent players, and these two ganons i play with sometimes/see play sometimes.

    so it's not that these characters are bad, imo, it's just that they're outshined by others leaving the only reason to play them being if you like them, but even that can work to your favor because people simply play better when they're playing what they want to play and you get that sweet sweet matchup inexperience advantage

    but

    smash 4 is pretty well balanced imo, the only truly bad character i can think of is lil mac (meaning no real advantageous or winning matchups and i can't even think of anyone he could go even with, looking at the roster right now i can see ways pretty much everyone can cheese him out unless the mac is really good)

    i think a lot of the cast sit in the mid-tier wherein if you get two people of decent tournament level skill to fight it out, the player matchup will nearly always outweigh the character matchup by a large margin and that's super impressive especially considering the cast

    i don't think charizard is all that bad (but he's definitely not good), i don't think samus is bad at all, i don't know that i've ever seen a non-custom palutena, but aside from the obvious really good characters (imo sheik, roy, ryu, zss, sonic, diddy, luigi, rosalina, pikachu, and probably villager too that character scares me are top 10) i feel like the whole cast is slept on to some degree (other than lil mac) simply by virtue of the game not even being a year old yet and the dominance of the easier to play characters in the tournament scene. i feel this way about a lot of fighting games.

    nobody here plays umvc3 but people thought wesker was OP as hell till they figured out they just weren't good enough at the game yet

    but as the life span of the game goes on and people really figure out the game and their characters i think this will be the most diverse smash game not counting PM.

    by the by, wyborn have you ever seriously tried roy? i feel like with your propensity for getting in asses as well as your enjoyment of lucina you might really enjoy him

    and really enjoy how fucking good he is cuz god damn that boy is good

    i feel like that got rambly as fuck and i don't even know if i ended up making a point but i'm not reading it over

    if there's one thing i want you to take away from this it's to stick with ganon because you feel him in your heart and that's clear in your play but also try roy because he's super good and super fun

    and even though there's not a ton of footage of smash 4 ganon i recommend watching vids of other heavies just to get an idea of how they approach and what you can adapt from that into your own game plan

    also dedede is high tier and i will hear nothing to the contrary

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    Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    what's important is the skill gap between you and the other player

    heavy characters/grapplers/etc. in fighting games punish players who are below your skill level

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
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    I Win SwordfightsI Win Swordfights all the traits of greatness starlight at my feetRegistered User regular
    edited August 2015
    yeah that too

    ganondorf will probably get worse and worse in the meta as the game's lifespan goes on but right now he's a viable character in a decent amount of matchups if you're a good enough player and have a secondary to cover his bad matchups and also don't get counter-stage-picked too hard

    unfortunately ganon is not secret-high-tier grappler like hugo

    I Win Swordfights on
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    AbsurdPropositionAbsurdProposition Registered User regular
    I agree with most of what you said but gotta disagree on Lil Mac being the worst character. I feel like at a minimum he's midtier. He's this game's glass cannon, he gets crapped on hard if his opponent punishes a mistake, but when he has the momentum it's very hard to reset back to neutral against him. And on top of that there's the KO Punch which is amazing just because the threat of it forces the opponent to not rely on shield leaving them way more open for everything else Mac can do.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    As a Ganondorf player I live for those between moments of advanced helplessness and impending annihilation, when the first hit of D-Smash connects and we get to experience that long moment before the second hit connects - that's always been great, you know? Everything about that is great. But they boosted that second hit lately, now when you're past 80% it kills as hard as his F-Smash does, so that long hanging heartbeat portends much more than it used to.

    When I read the air dodge and instead of flipping my UAir I let them taste a BAir that sends them into space

    When the shield shatters and they only have 20% damage but they know they've lost the stock anyway

    That long, terrible "FWOOM" of the FSmash connecting and the fire engulfing them before they go flying

    And the secret super armor first hit of the Dark Fists before they're sent skyward and killed at like 70% for heavies

    I play Ganondorf because his character is the one I like best; I play Ness because he fits that description as well. It just so happen that Ganondorf's style meshes so well with mine, and that Ness covers the majority of Ganon's bad matchups like a charm

    I probably will try Roy a little bit more later on, though right now I'm trying to learn to use Sheik a little bit. I'm not very good with her but her speed seems a good complement to Ganon's power and Ness's battlefield control. Roy feels really nice to use

    The only problem is that Roy, as a character, is so lame

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2015
    You already play Ness. If you pick up Sheik you will be tried for war crimes

    Sterica on
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    McFlynnMcFlynn Registered User regular
    Ness is definitely popular and bullshitful in FG.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    You already play Ness. If you pick up Sheik you will be tried for war crimes

    Listen, I asked SilverWind which person I should use as a third, and she said "Sheik" instantly

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    I Win SwordfightsI Win Swordfights all the traits of greatness starlight at my feetRegistered User regular
    I agree with most of what you said but gotta disagree on Lil Mac being the worst character. I feel like at a minimum he's midtier. He's this game's glass cannon, he gets crapped on hard if his opponent punishes a mistake, but when he has the momentum it's very hard to reset back to neutral against him. And on top of that there's the KO Punch which is amazing just because the threat of it forces the opponent to not rely on shield leaving them way more open for everything else Mac can do.

    I never feel unconfirmed against a little mac, because I know one mistake on their part can mean a stock for them

    And since KO is broadcast a mile away by the giant flashing KO thing, I just hop skip and twirl away till he wastes it or losing it, though Roy and Falco are very mobile characters and can evade him well

    I maintain him in my "worst in the game" spot but I do not try to put my word across as what everyone should believe or feel about the game, I just spend a lot of time thinking about/reading/playing fighting games so I tend to have a lot of opinions and a lot to say but that doesn't automatically make me right

    And I tend to approach things with a different mentality than most

    Which is one of the most beautiful things about these games is how much of your own personality and style and mentality can come across so clearly in your play

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    @wyborn As much as I loathe to give you easy pointers, you were letting me punish you on Disables. You can easily jump out of it and never hit the ground. Shit, I think Greasy was DIing out of it without having to jump.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    You can jump out of Disable?


    ....wait can Ganon jump out of Disable?

    ...is Disable the side-B, I thought it was the Down-B

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