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[Battlefleet Gothic: Armada] Warnavy Germanic: Flotilla

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    how awesome is this game? How boardy-gamey?

    I would say the game is really good.

    The biggest problem right now mostly has to do with the multiplayer, where you get matched based on your Admiral level, but your ships can be disabled for multiple matches if they get destroyed or damaged too much, putting you into a death spiral, similar to how in Blood Bowl, if too many players get injured in a match, it increases the odds for your other players to be injured because they will be outnumbered. Easy fix would be to allow you to choose what point match you want to play with a band between Rank 1 and your current rank.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    MWO: Adamski
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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Oh, cool.
    I don't usually do MP... how fleshed out is the SP game?

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    The SP looks amazing, they only included the first 3 missions in the Beta, so that people could try it without spoiling it.

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    MWO: Adamski
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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Looking over the Chaos favours...

    Why would you want the Khorne mark that gives +10 troop instead of the Nurgle mark that gives +20 troop?

    Siren of Slaneesh mark...plus three thousand percent enemy insubordination chance??! Auto insubordination for the whole enemy fleet when a ship is destroyed????

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Looking over the Chaos favours...

    Why would you want the Khorne mark that gives +10 troop instead of the Nurgle mark that gives +20 troop?

    Siren of Slaneesh mark...plus three thousand percent enemy insubordination chance??! Auto insubordination for the whole enemy fleet when a ship is destroyed????

    I think the tooltip for Khorne is bugged, since the Adeptus Astartes favor is the exact same thing, but also grants additional assault actions.

    Siren of Slaanesh is good, but is completely negated by the Imperial Navy favor that makes insubordination impossible.

    Nurgle is nice for the extra troops, but Chaos ships want to kite and be at long range, so the troops and AOE are only useful if you are already failing.

    Tzeentch is the one that synergizes with Chaos play style the best.

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    MWO: Adamski
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Okay, so escort missions are really dumb. There doesn't seem to be a way to reliably get the escorts out of there without them taking fire and if they take fire they can get focused down before you kill whatever cruiser's banging on them.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Balance probably needs work and the Escort missions might need to be reworked probably.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Orks and Eldar definitely will be in the Campaign as enemies.

    Also here's an overview trailer (which includes snippets of Eldar and Ork gameplay)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLkNIBSNGVs

    That trailer looks fucking awesome. I'm not interested in the Beta build, though; I'll wait until the full package is out.


    I have just a general tangential question for lore nerds, though:
    I want to make sure I'm explaining this correctly to people that are new to 40K stuff:


    Science is entirely dead in the Imperium, correct? Even just existing general theories like (say) relativity / atomic theory / Newtonian physics are neither studied nor rigorously understood; technology is basically locked into pre-existing blueprints & standardized machining / forging tools that can do only a select few specialized tasks. Whenever a blueprint or set of specialized tools are lost, the technology locked into becomes extinct.

    There's not even (much) variation or spur of the moment innovation on the production end because most of the production is done by a religious cult that values strict adherence to blueprint specs above all else (the blueprints seen as a product of a divine influence - the Omnissiah, who presence is 'felt' primarily via old AI interfaces that the cult has deified).


    That's why there's no generational leaps in ship design / tank design / whatever even over centuries - literally nobody even knows how to build a ship or how they fundamentally work. They just know how to follow the Lego instructions, and they do not even have / want the creative impetus to try and re-interpret the instructions. This is also why some designs are considered rare / precious even though the Imperium stretches across a pretty large tract of space: the resources may be there to produce, say, thousands of Armageddon class battleships, but the blueprints & tools for making them have all been destroyed (...And this is also why Forge World are considered so valuable even above and beyond much more resource-rich worlds, and why the Omnissiah cult largely has a blind eye turned to it by the otherwise unflinchingly zealous Inquisition).


    Is this roughly correct?

    With Love and Courage
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    That's more or less it from what I understand of 40K lore.

    Also played more of this on both sides.

    Low points games right now are Imperials win if they get a single good engage. Chaos carrier boats win other wise. It's a weird game of cat and mouse.

    Lost a breakthrough mission vs another chaos player because he was better at scouting me, was making avid use of 12K range on his cannons and I was too gingerly about putting my carrier in to actually shoot it out. Considering when I warped out I had all three of his ships on the ropes I feel I could've won it.

    Super concerned about the fact that ship upgrades don't add to their points value.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Okay, so escort missions are really dumb. There doesn't seem to be a way to reliably get the escorts out of there without them taking fire and if they take fire they can get focused down before you kill whatever cruiser's banging on them.

    I found my best results for escort missions were to set the supply ships up in a line on the edge of the map, and as soon as the match starts, set them to pilot to the opposite side of the map, and set them to silent running.

    Have my naval vessels right next to them to start, and try to keep them roughly on pace right next to them. Target the engines of anything that gets close.

    If your supply ships get engaged, fire their all ahead full.

    Of course, I haven't run into the problem of having the whole convoy wiped out with a triple nova cannon blast yet.

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    MWO: Adamski
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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Orks and Eldar definitely will be in the Campaign as enemies.

    Also here's an overview trailer (which includes snippets of Eldar and Ork gameplay)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLkNIBSNGVs

    That trailer looks fucking awesome. I'm not interested in the Beta build, though; I'll wait until the full package is out.


    I have just a general tangential question for lore nerds, though:
    I want to make sure I'm explaining this correctly to people that are new to 40K stuff:


    Science is entirely dead in the Imperium, correct? Even just existing general theories like (say) relativity / atomic theory / Newtonian physics are neither studied nor rigorously understood; technology is basically locked into pre-existing blueprints & standardized machining / forging tools that can do only a select few specialized tasks. Whenever a blueprint or set of specialized tools are lost, the technology locked into becomes extinct.

    There's not even (much) variation or spur of the moment innovation on the production end because most of the production is done by a religious cult that values strict adherence to blueprint specs above all else (the blueprints seen as a product of a divine influence - the Omnissiah, who presence is 'felt' primarily via old AI interfaces that the cult has deified).


    That's why there's no generational leaps in ship design / tank design / whatever even over centuries - literally nobody even knows how to build a ship or how they fundamentally work. They just know how to follow the Lego instructions, and they do not even have / want the creative impetus to try and re-interpret the instructions. This is also why some designs are considered rare / precious even though the Imperium stretches across a pretty large tract of space: the resources may be there to produce, say, thousands of Armageddon class battleships, but the blueprints & tools for making them have all been destroyed (...And this is also why Forge World are considered so valuable even above and beyond much more resource-rich worlds, and why the Omnissiah cult largely has a blind eye turned to it by the otherwise unflinchingly zealous Inquisition).


    Is this roughly correct?

    Generally yes, but of course the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus are full of exemptions and hypocracy regarding their strict rules and taboos. I also wouldn't say all science is dead but that a lot of is more about rediscovery than discovery.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Orks and Eldar definitely will be in the Campaign as enemies.

    Also here's an overview trailer (which includes snippets of Eldar and Ork gameplay)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLkNIBSNGVs

    That trailer looks fucking awesome. I'm not interested in the Beta build, though; I'll wait until the full package is out.


    I have just a general tangential question for lore nerds, though:
    I want to make sure I'm explaining this correctly to people that are new to 40K stuff:


    Science is entirely dead in the Imperium, correct? Even just existing general theories like (say) relativity / atomic theory / Newtonian physics are neither studied nor rigorously understood; technology is basically locked into pre-existing blueprints & standardized machining / forging tools that can do only a select few specialized tasks. Whenever a blueprint or set of specialized tools are lost, the technology locked into becomes extinct.

    There's not even (much) variation or spur of the moment innovation on the production end because most of the production is done by a religious cult that values strict adherence to blueprint specs above all else (the blueprints seen as a product of a divine influence - the Omnissiah, who presence is 'felt' primarily via old AI interfaces that the cult has deified).


    That's why there's no generational leaps in ship design / tank design / whatever even over centuries - literally nobody even knows how to build a ship or how they fundamentally work. They just know how to follow the Lego instructions, and they do not even have / want the creative impetus to try and re-interpret the instructions. This is also why some designs are considered rare / precious even though the Imperium stretches across a pretty large tract of space: the resources may be there to produce, say, thousands of Armageddon class battleships, but the blueprints & tools for making them have all been destroyed (...And this is also why Forge World are considered so valuable even above and beyond much more resource-rich worlds, and why the Omnissiah cult largely has a blind eye turned to it by the otherwise unflinchingly zealous Inquisition).


    Is this roughly correct?

    Purchasing the BETA will give you free access to the Space Marines when they come out, just in case that matters.

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    MWO: Adamski
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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Yeah every "destroy this special target" mission is kind of whack right now. Data retrieval & assassination it's too easy to run and wait out the timer before you can warp. Breakthrough I have yet to see the defender come close to winning.

    Is there any kind of penalty for targeting subsystems? Or is it something you always want to do.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I won breakthrough as a defender with chaos carrier spam.

    Also at low levels carrier spam is super aggravating to fight against. I'm kinda hoping that by launch Crit's are temporary/repairable and the nova cannon is less absurd. Currently it feels like the grand meta you're grinding games towards is to have less and less ship combat and more and more giant space wizard battles.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Does the game put limits on what kind of ships you can purchase in relation to the rest of your fleet? Like the in the tabletop version the basic imperial list needs 2 cruisers for every battlecruiser and 3 (battle-)cruisers for every battleship.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Does the game put limits on what kind of ships you can purchase in relation to the rest of your fleet? Like the in the tabletop version the basic imperial list needs 2 cruisers for every battlecruiser and 3 (battle-)cruisers for every battleship.

    The game limits you at the rate you can purchase them, but in a match you could theoretically have a single battleship and the rest of your fleet be escorts.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    This would be bad though because escorts are absolutely garbage.

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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    I won breakthrough as a defender with chaos carrier spam.

    Also at low levels carrier spam is super aggravating to fight against. I'm kinda hoping that by launch Crit's are temporary/repairable and the nova cannon is less absurd. Currently it feels like the grand meta you're grinding games towards is to have less and less ship combat and more and more giant space wizard battles.

    Yeah a lot of the special abilities could stand to be toned down. Or at least limit the most useful ones to the less used ships. Stasis bomb is kind of ridiculous and overused right now.

    Mines are really strange this game. They just show up randomly. I remember the table top they were exclusive to the defender who could place them.

    MrBody on
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Assassination needs to be harder for the defender. They need to have a much longer time limit before they can warp out.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    You can interrupt warps with lightning strike. So it is doable.

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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    You can also interrupt warping with taunt. I think stasis bomb also works?

    I'm thinking at the very least, ships should be limited to only one special ability each.

    Also thinking I prefer the way special orders were handled in the tabletop. They were kind of risky because you had to make a leadership check for them and if you failed your ship just kind of floundered for the turn. All Ahead Full and Burn Retros were part of the same special orders pool and not separate to a "burn meter". Carriers were also balanced by making the Reload special order MANDATORY after every use before you could launch ordinance again. For the video game, I would prefer special orders being reduced to like a 30 second cooldown but receiving the tabletop limitations. If they do keep the burn meter, I don't like how if it depletes, you have to wait until it's 100% full before you can use it again, but as long as you keep a sliver of it left you can use it anytime. Just increases the amount of micro babysitting you have to do in a game that's too fast at normal speed (I think it should be 66% at normal speed).

    Does anyone have an idea yet what lances mean by "minimal armor"? Does that mean 50?

    How does insubordination and executions work? What is the advantage of executing a fleeing ship?

    MrBody on
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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Finally unlocked Battlecruisers. Holy crap how is the Mars not massively better than the Overlord in every possible way? You trade one (on each side) broadside cannon and torpedoes in exchange for 2 ordinance launch bays and a nova cannon???

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Can you automate torpedo launches? I was coming here to ask advice on implementing them better, just occurred to me I never tried right clicking them. That could help.

    If not: The torpedo escorts seem way to micro-required to be useful. Am I missing something as to the use of torpedoes? They just fire in a straight line, so you have to do a lot of jockeying to get in position then manually fire them; it's a bit much. (Or am I getting old and slow?)

    Counter detection awareness: I know you get a little popup when you'very been sighted, but if I missed it, is there some hint on the UI as to whether you are currently being tracked? Is there an indication of whether you appear on their scope at all (blip vs identified)?

    Stealth in general: If I leave a carrier in an Ion cloud, does launching ships reveal me?

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Finally unlocked Battlecruisers. Holy crap how is the Mars not massively better than the Overlord in every possible way? You trade one (on each side) broadside cannon and torpedoes in exchange for 2 ordinance launch bays and a nova cannon???

    Just staying true to the table top, I see. Although the overlord would arguably be better against Eldar, because at least on the table top they more or less can ignore ordnance and lances but get eaten alive by regular cannons.

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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Finally unlocked Battlecruisers. Holy crap how is the Mars not massively better than the Overlord in every possible way? You trade one (on each side) broadside cannon and torpedoes in exchange for 2 ordinance launch bays and a nova cannon???

    Just staying true to the table top, I see. Although the overlord would arguably be better against Eldar, because at least on the table top they more or less can ignore ordnance and lances but get eaten alive by regular cannons.

    That was one aspect I was never a fan of. Knowing you were up against Eldar, you just picked battery-heavy ships and you annihilated them.

    I'm not sure how this would work with the video game. Are you aware of your opponent before hand in a quick match? But then, shields work differently in the video game. They're just an additional buffer as opposed to the "damage threshold" you had to punch through every turn in the TT to inflict hull damage. Also armor is different. Standard armor in video game for Chaos/Imperium is shrugging off 50% of hits, but in TT it was rolling a 1-4, or 67% chance. Eldar armor was 50% (1-3) and they didn't have the regular shield damage threshold, which is what made them so fragile.
    Can you automate torpedo launches? I was coming here to ask advice on implementing them better, just occurred to me I never tried right clicking them. That could help.

    If not: The torpedo escorts seem way to micro-required to be useful. Am I missing something as to the use of torpedoes? They just fire in a straight line, so you have to do a lot of jockeying to get in position then manually fire them; it's a bit much. (Or am I getting old and slow?)

    I don't think you are. Though I can't imagine auto launching torps as soon as they're up to be hitting much.

    At normal speed, I can't imagine them being useful. There needs to be an "auto rotate to keep torpedo line on target" command. It's also super frustrating when there's a group of escorts and they get in each other's way.

    And besides the micro, have you noticed the torp escorts get HALF the hull points as the others? I thought that was extremely weird. Every escort in the TT always had a single hull point.

    At least with the Imperial navy, I've been sticking with the double cannon frigates. If you can close to 3k, they do 130% the dps of the lance escorts (assuming lances "minimal armor" means 50?). Even more if you get the armor piecing upgrade.

    Lances in general are kind of a sad state of affairs currently.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    You CAN automate torpedos! If they have a decent shot, they'll take it, they won't just fire blindly every time they load a tube. Much more useful.

    I didn't notice the Chaos torpedo escorts having less hull, 200 hull, 50 armor. The macro destroyer had 100 hull, 25 armor. Perhaps that's an Imperial distinction? My DDs get shredded up close, the lancers with enhanced criticals are my go to for longevity, the DDs would be good for assassination if I ever drew offense.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    You CAN automate torpedos! If they have a decent shot, they'll take it, they won't just fire blindly every time they load a tube. Much more useful.

    I didn't notice the Chaos torpedo escorts having less hull, 200 hull, 50 armor. The macro destroyer had 100 hull, 25 armor. Perhaps that's an Imperial distinction? My DDs get shredded up close, the lancers with enhanced criticals are my go to for longevity, the DDs would be good for assassination if I ever drew offense.

    The Imperial Cobra destroyer is the smalles Imperial escort ship, but on the tabletop that is repesented with a lower armour value as all escorts only have 1 hitpoint anyway. Same goes for the Chaos Iconoclast destroyer armed with gun batteries.

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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm finding mass suicide escorts the best for breakthrough attacker.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    There was a patch apparently

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/363680/discussions/0/385428458162643686/

    Assault Boats got nerfed pretty hard, and apparently there was a stealth nerf not listed that changed it so shield transfer only brings back about 100 points of shields.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Huh. That patch made attack craft invisible for me.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Upcoming balance patch:
    Torpedoes:
    - Now have armor piercing. (Reducing the enemy armor to 25%)

    I persisted to keep them as in the board game despite all the negative comments regarding their effectiveness. But after testing them with this change i must admit they are more interesting, devastating and give more incentive to dodge them.

    Nova Cannon:
    - Minimal range increase from 5000 to 6000.
    - Slightly increase the dispersion radius.
    - Slightly decrease the epicenter. (Area that deal max damage)

    I think this should decrease a bit the Nova Cannon spam without rendering it useless.

    Chaos rework:
    - Add more Chaos macro turrets variation in order to fit with the rulebook range stats.
    - Add new heavy missile pods to the Chaos weaponry in order to fit with the rulebook firepower stats. (DPS: 3)
    - Add a missile pod (range 6000) to the Slaughter/Devastation.
    - Add a heavy missile pod (range 9000) to the Acheron.
    - Add a super heavy missile pod (range 12000) to the Carnage/Styx.
    - Add 2 heavy missile (range 12000) pod to the Desolator.
    - Slaughter speed have been increase by 50.
    - Light macro turret are now called Light missile pod.
    - Missile pod rate of fire is now 6.
    - Twin linked battery rate of fire is now 3.
    - Iconoclast now have 6 missile pod instead of 9.
    - Chaos heavy macro battery no longer have 12 attacks but 8.
    - Chaos heavy lances battery no longer exist. All Chaos heavy lances occurrences are replaced by Chaos lances battery.
    - Chaos heavy launch bay no longer exist. All Chaos heavy launch bay occurrences are replaced by Chaos launch bay.
    - Add a prow launch bay to the Chaos weaponry that count as 2 launch bay.
    - Add a prow launch bay to the despoiler.
    - Replace the twin linked battery of the Devastation by a lance battery.
    - Chaos macro battery rate of fire is now 5.
    - Chaos heavy macro battery rate of fire is now 6.
    - All point costs have been modified to fit with new stats values.

    With those changes, Chaos will fit more to the stats of the TT. For most ship it's a up!
    Most important thing is the addition of a new missile pods and the range variation on macro turrets that allow us to perfectly match the firepower and arc of fire of Chaos ships that you find in the BFG rulebook. Maybe some of you didn't noticed it but DPS of the weapons match the firepower of the TT. Only exception was some Chaos ships for various technical and complex reasons. this will be no longer the case in the next patch.

    Retribution:
    - Retribution speed have been increase by 50.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Looking really nice for Chaos, which is nice, and also reducing the Imperial reliance on Macro Cannons while improving Torpedoes.

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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    ACTIVATING TACTICAL COGITATORS ACTIVATING TACTICALCOGITATORSACTIVATINGTACTICALCOGITATORSACTIVATACTIVATETACTCOGCOGCOGITATATGGATTOOOOOOOORS!!!

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    MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    So what is the deal with lances? What does the tooltip mean by "minimal armor"? I thought that meant 50%, but the torpedo change now makes it seem like 25%?

    The standard exchange rate for weapon slots seems to be 1 dps lance = 2 x 1 dps cannons. Back when I thought "minimal" meant 50%, that meant at <3k range, cannons were doing 160% the damage of their lance equivalent. Seemed like a decent deal.

    But if "minimal" is 25%? That means cannons only do 107% the dps of lances at point blank range, and much much worse the farther you get.

    But none of the experiences support that. Lances are heavy outdamaged by cannons.

    I just don't get these maths.

    MrBody on
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    I have just a general tangential question for lore nerds, though:
    I want to make sure I'm explaining this correctly to people that are new to 40K stuff:


    Science is entirely dead in the Imperium, correct? Even just existing general theories like (say) relativity / atomic theory / Newtonian physics are neither studied nor rigorously understood; technology is basically locked into pre-existing blueprints & standardized machining / forging tools that can do only a select few specialized tasks. Whenever a blueprint or set of specialized tools are lost, the technology locked into becomes extinct.

    There's not even (much) variation or spur of the moment innovation on the production end because most of the production is done by a religious cult that values strict adherence to blueprint specs above all else (the blueprints seen as a product of a divine influence - the Omnissiah, who presence is 'felt' primarily via old AI interfaces that the cult has deified).


    That's why there's no generational leaps in ship design / tank design / whatever even over centuries - literally nobody even knows how to build a ship or how they fundamentally work. They just know how to follow the Lego instructions, and they do not even have / want the creative impetus to try and re-interpret the instructions. This is also why some designs are considered rare / precious even though the Imperium stretches across a pretty large tract of space: the resources may be there to produce, say, thousands of Armageddon class battleships, but the blueprints & tools for making them have all been destroyed (...And this is also why Forge World are considered so valuable even above and beyond much more resource-rich worlds, and why the Omnissiah cult largely has a blind eye turned to it by the otherwise unflinchingly zealous Inquisition).


    Is this roughly correct?

    Roughly correct yes.

    1. As mentioned before there is a continual quest from the Adeptus Mechanicus to rediscover old lost technology, not to mention scavenge old technology for use in their more modern ships. While the imperium is generally going slowly forward in terms of tank technology (as more STCs are rediscovered) it's definitely going backwards on the macroscale (and as such modern imperial ships have worse reactors, engines and weaponry than the older chaos ships. Bombers and interceptor-technology though has improved).

    2. While technology on the macroscale is going backwards there is a continual struggle to redesign to compensate. The modern navys development of armoured prows and greater reliance on torpedo technology has pretty much levelled the battlefield vs the older (not to mention daemon augmented) chaos fleet.

    3. There is also the case of brilliant, and experienced, techpriests who go against the stream and innovate. Many times their innovations end up less efficient than the old proven ways. A lot of the time they end up getting inquisitioned before they can put their innovations into use. Almost all the time their inventions are jealously guarded by the forgeworld they belong to. Sometimes however (just sometimes) the forgeworld is sufficiently productive that the technology reaches the navy/army in significant amounts, sometimes the technology is spread through backchannels (sometimes through the influence from space marine chapters, which frequently respond with a heavily disguised "Fuck you" if the administration questions their heterodoxical use of technology, and sometimes through the influence of prominent military lords) and even more rarely the Lords of Terra (or Mechanicus leadership) take a personal interest and the technology is disseminated into general usage.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    A fully working STC machine would change everything. The Adeptus Mechanics expend vast resources chasing down rumours of a working STC machine.

    Basically a STC machine is the super Lego blueprint creator of the setting. Tell it what you want (a tractor, say), tell it what you've got and it will churn out the plans for everything you need to create a tractor with your raw materials from an axe upwards.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Orks and Eldar definitely will be in the Campaign as enemies.

    Also here's an overview trailer (which includes snippets of Eldar and Ork gameplay)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLkNIBSNGVs

    That trailer looks fucking awesome. I'm not interested in the Beta build, though; I'll wait until the full package is out.


    I have just a general tangential question for lore nerds, though:
    I want to make sure I'm explaining this correctly to people that are new to 40K stuff:


    Science is entirely dead in the Imperium, correct? Even just existing general theories like (say) relativity / atomic theory / Newtonian physics are neither studied nor rigorously understood; technology is basically locked into pre-existing blueprints & standardized machining / forging tools that can do only a select few specialized tasks. Whenever a blueprint or set of specialized tools are lost, the technology locked into becomes extinct.

    There's not even (much) variation or spur of the moment innovation on the production end because most of the production is done by a religious cult that values strict adherence to blueprint specs above all else (the blueprints seen as a product of a divine influence - the Omnissiah, who presence is 'felt' primarily via old AI interfaces that the cult has deified).


    That's why there's no generational leaps in ship design / tank design / whatever even over centuries - literally nobody even knows how to build a ship or how they fundamentally work. They just know how to follow the Lego instructions, and they do not even have / want the creative impetus to try and re-interpret the instructions. This is also why some designs are considered rare / precious even though the Imperium stretches across a pretty large tract of space: the resources may be there to produce, say, thousands of Armageddon class battleships, but the blueprints & tools for making them have all been destroyed (...And this is also why Forge World are considered so valuable even above and beyond much more resource-rich worlds, and why the Omnissiah cult largely has a blind eye turned to it by the otherwise unflinchingly zealous Inquisition).


    Is this roughly correct?

    Yes but it's partly a reaction to Millennia of fighting chaos. Simply put, if technology becomes too advanced, it's also susceptible to being possessed by chaos. Being a brutal, dictatorial theocracy makes life miserable for most (but not all) systems, but the kick is that it's worked for 10,000 years out of necessity.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    A fully working STC machine would change everything. The Adeptus Mechanics expend vast resources chasing down rumours of a working STC machine.

    Basically a STC machine is the super Lego blueprint creator of the setting. Tell it what you want (a tractor, say), tell it what you've got and it will churn out the plans for everything you need to create a tractor with your raw materials from an axe upwards.

    Also STC tractors with some guns slapped on is literally what the Imperium mainly uses for a lot of their military technology. Even quite a few of the mos prized war-robots of the Adeptus Mechanicus are former construction or police bots.

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    EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Orks and Eldar definitely will be in the Campaign as enemies.

    Also here's an overview trailer (which includes snippets of Eldar and Ork gameplay)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLkNIBSNGVs

    That trailer looks fucking awesome. I'm not interested in the Beta build, though; I'll wait until the full package is out.


    I have just a general tangential question for lore nerds, though:
    I want to make sure I'm explaining this correctly to people that are new to 40K stuff:


    Science is entirely dead in the Imperium, correct? Even just existing general theories like (say) relativity / atomic theory / Newtonian physics are neither studied nor rigorously understood; technology is basically locked into pre-existing blueprints & standardized machining / forging tools that can do only a select few specialized tasks. Whenever a blueprint or set of specialized tools are lost, the technology locked into becomes extinct.

    There's not even (much) variation or spur of the moment innovation on the production end because most of the production is done by a religious cult that values strict adherence to blueprint specs above all else (the blueprints seen as a product of a divine influence - the Omnissiah, who presence is 'felt' primarily via old AI interfaces that the cult has deified).


    That's why there's no generational leaps in ship design / tank design / whatever even over centuries - literally nobody even knows how to build a ship or how they fundamentally work. They just know how to follow the Lego instructions, and they do not even have / want the creative impetus to try and re-interpret the instructions. This is also why some designs are considered rare / precious even though the Imperium stretches across a pretty large tract of space: the resources may be there to produce, say, thousands of Armageddon class battleships, but the blueprints & tools for making them have all been destroyed (...And this is also why Forge World are considered so valuable even above and beyond much more resource-rich worlds, and why the Omnissiah cult largely has a blind eye turned to it by the otherwise unflinchingly zealous Inquisition).


    Is this roughly correct?

    Yes but it's partly a reaction to Millennia of fighting chaos. Simply put, if technology becomes too advanced, it's also susceptible to being possessed by chaos. Being a brutal, dictatorial theocracy makes life miserable for most (but not all) systems, but the kick is that it's worked for 10,000 years out of necessity.

    I'd debate that, I'd say it's taken this long for enough degradation to occur that it's become almost completely fatal. It's a sign of just how far the imperium's fallen. So it's kinda worked until now but it certainly wasn't necessary. Especially given the two human empires that I can think of chaos went out of it's way to force the corrupt Primarchs to destroy as they couldn't be corrupted.

    From the fluff of the recent codex's humanity is well and truly losing more then it's winning. I have a horrible feeling they're planning a reboot like I think they did (or are?) for their 20k series and like many other RPG's have done.

    Having to start all over is a real pain.

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    It's always been losing, but always winning too. That's 40k for you. The Emperor's plan of a perfectly rational society to confront Chaos was equally flawed.

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