I should really get around to testing this, but on Cata even the regular longbow takes two left clicks to kill a slave/clan rat. That could narrow the gap a little if the Swiftbow still does. If it takes 3 that'd be pretty atrocious.
It's decent vs. rat ogres. But only decent.
But then again, on Cataclysm, the Trueseeker is kind of the only viable option.
I got an orange trueflight bow, upgrade from my true blue. For some reason the orange seems even wonkier than the blue, with arrows just spinning around enemies more often, never hitting, meaning it's taking two shots to kill a special instead of one. I'd greatly prefer a normal longbow—whoever decided trueflights should prioritize mooks over specials is a monster. Plus, it is just me, or does the quickfire suffer from some pretty spotty hit detection?
Also fused some orange daggers, the 1/5 chance that I was hoping to avoid. Same damage as my blue sword, though faster and less targets. Haven't got the hang of them yet, as I take way more damage that my sword prevented thanks to its sweeping every enemy in sight.
I don't really like true seeker on nightmare and cats. The number of rats make it hard to lock onto the specials.
NM/Cata doesn't increase spawns AFAIK.
I've never had this problem with the Trueseeker, but some of the guys I play with do. I think it's because in our groups the elf isn't really on special hunting duty, since the handgun on ES/DR is the best at quickly taking them down. We don't usually run a beam staff, but that works too. For me the Elf is more the long range murder machine, and since the only specials that really pose problems in Cataclysm or Nightmare are ones that tend to spawn or attack alone (globes and runners) it hasn't been an issue.
I do really wish that you could lock on with a key. They should use the "weapon special" key that the rapier/pistol has for it.
The Drakefires are so much fun I kind of don't want to find a blue/orange handgun anymore.
I also need to complete a couple missions on Hard for that banner, and then start working on Nightmares. Need to lock down a solid group for weekday evening Nightmare ratkillings.
Also fused some orange daggers, the 1/5 chance that I was hoping to avoid. Same damage as my blue sword, though faster and less targets. Haven't got the hang of them yet, as I take way more damage that my sword prevented thanks to its sweeping every enemy in sight.
The headshot modifier is life.
I prefer sword/dagger to all other elf weapon setups, though.
I accidentally recommended this to my brother because he loves L4D and Evolve, but he doesn't like PC gaming. Is there word on when this will come out on consoles?
I accidentally recommended this to my brother because he loves L4D and Evolve, but he doesn't like PC gaming. Is there word on when this will come out on consoles?
Ran into a cheat last night - some sort of hack attacking the game's RNG. He had both the % to not use bomb and % to not use medical, and he could throw infinite bombs and heal forever. Also every single chest in every game was full of pots, heals, bombs, loot dice, etc...
The chest thing makes me think attacking RNG. There's no way I should find 10 medicals in 7 chests on nightmare 3 games in a row. Yeah, took me that long to see the BS.
Edit: It was hilarious to watch him A) deny it and Fail so hard at nightmare that I saw him host normal after we disbanded.
The Drakefires are so much fun I kind of don't want to find a blue/orange handgun anymore.
I got a pair of blue drake's with X% increased attack speed (on all the time, not a chance on kill for a short duration) and X% overcharge reduction two or three days into the pre-order's pre-release beta. Turned the Dwarf Ranger from the most boring of fantasy cliches and class I always avoided into my most played class. Long range can get iffy but medium and closer it's so easy to get a headshot on anything with how big the fireball is I just run around and bunny hop turning the game into its own take on Devil May Cry's Gunslinger setup.
I have some Exotic Drakefires that have the 15% attack speed, Chance to Knockback (max roll), and Reduced Venting Damage. In my opinion, the attack speed is kind of eh, since it seems to me that when you're firing at that increased rate, you're apparently hitting each rat twice, because the corpse doesn't stop blocking shots for a brief second. Without any penetration, that's a lot of wasted shots. The knockback is also kind of... not particularly useful. If I'm unloading into something it'll be dead momentarily anyway, unless it's a rat ogre which can't get knocked back. I will say that the charge attack is the REAL winner with the weapon, able to clear out waves of rats, save teammates (no friendly fire), and has Armor Piercing unlike the attack it's based on, so it can also wipe out clusters of storm vermin if you're able to use up your entire heat bar for it.
If I had my choice of mods, it'd probably be accuracy (more reliable for sniping specials, overheat reduction, and then probably the heal on kill.
In my opinion, the attack speed is kind of eh, since it seems to me that when you're firing at that increased rate, you're apparently hitting each rat twice, because the corpse doesn't stop blocking shots for a brief second. Without any penetration, that's a lot of wasted shots.
It's been a while since I've hopped on but doing A LOT of runs with them before launch I've never had this issue. Could easily be because I'm having too much fun wearing out the space bar and flinging fire Mario style I just didn't notice it though. There's normally not enough rats on screen where they overlap even in death animations to miss the head of a new target. In swarms I alternate the guns with either a 2h hammer or axe and shield rather than purely rely on the guns, so if limp rats can body block for even just a bit it might matter more there when I'm not as focused on shooting to notice.
Even in the worst case scenario of losing a few fireballs due to body blocks you could argue with every shot stunning Stormvermin, and other specials like Globadiers, it more than makes up for it. Especially with how easy specials are to kill with just a few quick headshots while they're stun locked.
Another negative is, even though it isn't really that many more fireballs with bonus attack speed, on Nightmare and Cataclysm you're just nuking your teammates that much faster. I spent most of my time on Hard and whenever I had a group capable of pushing into a harder difficulty it normally took me a run or two to remember I can fry my teammates now.
I know p2p is supposed to be bad, and it killed my enjoyment in previous games (notably Space Marine), but I have to say, Vermintide has run very smoothly for me, unless someone with a potato tries hosting.
MWO: Adamski
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
I host games late nights so I usually end up playing with lots of people in Europe and Australia and they've never had issue. I have a good connection, though, so my hosting is usually solid. It's netcode is pretty good, though.
You can play transatlantic but blocking and headshots are definitely easier if you are host / the host is near you.
Doesn't matter for normal and not much for hard but on nightmare mistakes are costly.
Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited November 2015
Are talking beyond human reflexes harder (less than ~180-~250 milliseconds) or "shaves a half second off a three second window" harder.
Cos I reckon I could learn to block regardless if its just the latter.
You gotta remember, us aussies gotta do this for every game. We're used to it.
Also I'll probably be playing controller. I have an ongoing rsi issue with my left hand that makes me wary of playing with keyboard and mouse for long sessions.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I know p2p is supposed to be bad, and it killed my enjoyment in previous games (notably Space Marine), but I have to say, Vermintide has run very smoothly for me, unless someone with a potato tries hosting.
Its typical of horde games. Games like vermintide and payday 2 can be much more lax with actual enemy positions and the like at any given time, and thus can give the system a lot of rope to compensate for lag. This doesn't work for competitive games for obvious reasons, the rats wont mind getting gibbed from too far away or behind a corner and the game isn't impacted much by players seeing slightly different positions on stuff from time to time.
This is also why sometimes shit goes through walls and wonks around, it also lends itself to cheating as the individual peers system gets comparatively much say in what "actually happens". In the end I find these kinds of games can utilize p2p the best.
Vic_Hazard on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Controller seems good, although I'll need to adjust the buttons because I prefer aim and fire to be on the shoulders. I'll have a proper go this arvo.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
So, turns out there's a really hilariously buggy way to glitch through all of the Horned Rat.
Like, having done it I genuinely can't even figure out how some of the stuff in it happens coding wise. At a certain point in the exploit it literally causes the game to spawn nothing but already dead rag dolls.
Holy crap, I always get to play the bw in my crew and I've been dying to get some good gear for the elf, which is the only melee class I've been able to tolerate.
Today netted me an exotic dagger/sword combo with heroic killing blow and regrowth, and a blue swift bow with bloodlust. All rolled in their upper 25% ranges!
That on top of clearing everything on hard.
So, turns out there's a really hilariously buggy way to glitch through all of the Horned Rat.
Like, having done it I genuinely can't even figure out how some of the stuff in it happens coding wise. At a certain point in the exploit it literally causes the game to spawn nothing but already dead rag dolls.
That's hilarious. Closest thing to that I've ever had happen is a rat ogre falling through the world. Nothing spawned after, just had a few rooms to clear before strolling through an empty sewer to catch my carriage. Not sure how common that is anymore, pre-release seemed to be one of the more common oddball bugs.
Controller seems good, although I'll need to adjust the buttons because I prefer aim and fire to be on the shoulders. I'll have a proper go this arvo.
I played with controller for a bit, but mouse and keyboard is just way better for aiming, and I tend to play the elf a lot so I need to aim accurately a lot
Issue I can see coming with the controller is not being able to look around fast enough. You learn real fast in this game to look everywhere all the time, I swing my perspective around with every hammer charge attack and keep looking behind us when we're moving for example.
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FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
Yeah I have enough trouble hitting the tiny little rat heads on the gunners, Commanders, etc, that you HAVE to headshot quickly with a mouse (heh), don't think I could do so with a controller.
Finally got through every mission (I think) on normal. My PC did not like it when I looked at the pillar in the final mission.
I also got a bow that has some kind of homing arrows, but not sure exactly how it works. When I right click aim at something it will turn red, then the arrow will spin around it, but sometimes it goes for other stuff too?
We managed to finish a nightmare map and the loot table left me pretty disappointed. It looked like a barebones hard loot list.
The loot lists have multiple permutations, but the most common for Nightmare is 3/2/2/1 and for Hard 2/2/2/2. That doesn't look like much, but on average your loot is 'twice as good'.
If you rate them along a points system (1 for White, 5 for Green, etc.) due to fusing, your average loot looks like this:
We managed to finish a nightmare map and the loot table left me pretty disappointed. It looked like a barebones hard loot list.
The loot lists have multiple permutations, but the most common for Nightmare is 3/2/2/1 and for Hard 2/2/2/2. That doesn't look like much, but on average your loot is 'twice as good'.
If you rate them along a points system (1 for White, 5 for Green, etc.) due to fusing, your average loot looks like this:
Two slots for orange items is nowhere close to the average for hard though. 2/2/2/2 might be the most common permutation, but there are so many with 1/X/X/X that I see two orange items less than half the time.
+1
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Played a little of this over the weekend with friends, and enjoyed it in the main, but just felt kinda ineffective as the Waywatcher.
Pretty sure it's just that I haven't adjusted to how to play this game (I'm not much for shooters, but team-based PvE stuff is great, so). Any good guides to the characters and general gameplay yet? Any videos I saw that said they were all about that kinda... weren't.
1) Your job is not to take damage. Everything else is secondary. Learn what to do to not take damage.
1a) Stay together, especially if you don't know the map
1b) During hordes, bunch up and be sure that someone is constantly looking behind, even if nothing is happening there
1c) Learn to block, learn to push, learn to dodge
1d) Fight first, loot later
1e) Kill what you can at ranged, but don't get caught with your ranged weapon in close combat, because you can't block, and melee kills are faster most of the time.
2) Swing when you want to swing. Don't spam attacks, learn the arcs of your weapons, try have rat heads in the middle of the swing. Learn the timing on your heavy attacks. In stressy situations this is where I still make mistakes, think "gotta kill rats fast" and take swipes from the side during animations etcet.
3) There are basically 2 kinds of ranged weapons: Snipers to quickly kill specials, and AoEs that clear commons. This is mostly clear if the weapon has 'armor penetration' or not. Without armor penetration, the best you can do is chain headshots which stuns until they die, but it can take a long time. The long barrel guns are often 1 shot hits.
For the waywatcher in particular, the dagger/sword combo is seen as the best weapon because it has huge headshot damage on normal kills, which means that it can very quickly mow through commons.
The shortbow is pretty disappointing I found, and even the poison version is situational. It does a small AoE but the damage seems low. I much favor the longbow, which 1 shot hits on approriate item levels, (blues on hard, orange on nightmare for sure) and penetrates, which means that if you have a good angle you can kill rats 3 at a time.
Posts
It's decent vs. rat ogres. But only decent.
But then again, on Cataclysm, the Trueseeker is kind of the only viable option.
I got an orange trueflight bow, upgrade from my true blue. For some reason the orange seems even wonkier than the blue, with arrows just spinning around enemies more often, never hitting, meaning it's taking two shots to kill a special instead of one. I'd greatly prefer a normal longbow—whoever decided trueflights should prioritize mooks over specials is a monster. Plus, it is just me, or does the quickfire suffer from some pretty spotty hit detection?
Also fused some orange daggers, the 1/5 chance that I was hoping to avoid. Same damage as my blue sword, though faster and less targets. Haven't got the hang of them yet, as I take way more damage that my sword prevented thanks to its sweeping every enemy in sight.
NM/Cata doesn't increase spawns AFAIK.
I've never had this problem with the Trueseeker, but some of the guys I play with do. I think it's because in our groups the elf isn't really on special hunting duty, since the handgun on ES/DR is the best at quickly taking them down. We don't usually run a beam staff, but that works too. For me the Elf is more the long range murder machine, and since the only specials that really pose problems in Cataclysm or Nightmare are ones that tend to spawn or attack alone (globes and runners) it hasn't been an issue.
I do really wish that you could lock on with a key. They should use the "weapon special" key that the rapier/pistol has for it.
I also need to complete a couple missions on Hard for that banner, and then start working on Nightmares. Need to lock down a solid group for weekday evening Nightmare ratkillings.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
The headshot modifier is life.
I prefer sword/dagger to all other elf weapon setups, though.
Q1 2016
The chest thing makes me think attacking RNG. There's no way I should find 10 medicals in 7 chests on nightmare 3 games in a row. Yeah, took me that long to see the BS.
Edit: It was hilarious to watch him A) deny it and
If I had my choice of mods, it'd probably be accuracy (more reliable for sniping specials, overheat reduction, and then probably the heal on kill.
Even in the worst case scenario of losing a few fireballs due to body blocks you could argue with every shot stunning Stormvermin, and other specials like Globadiers, it more than makes up for it. Especially with how easy specials are to kill with just a few quick headshots while they're stun locked.
Another negative is, even though it isn't really that many more fireballs with bonus attack speed, on Nightmare and Cataclysm you're just nuking your teammates that much faster. I spent most of my time on Hard and whenever I had a group capable of pushing into a harder difficulty it normally took me a run or two to remember I can fry my teammates now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/3rlupb/analysis_of_loot_tables_and_farm_efficiency/
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I read a post by a guy who did some quick testing and figured it wasn't raising his weapon proc rates for things like healing, berzerking, etc.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Wonder how bad the lag is.
I have never played a l4d style game.
Closest is tf2.
any australians skulking in here?
MWO: Adamski
Doesn't matter for normal and not much for hard but on nightmare mistakes are costly.
Cos I reckon I could learn to block regardless if its just the latter.
You gotta remember, us aussies gotta do this for every game. We're used to it.
Also I'll probably be playing controller. I have an ongoing rsi issue with my left hand that makes me wary of playing with keyboard and mouse for long sessions.
Its typical of horde games. Games like vermintide and payday 2 can be much more lax with actual enemy positions and the like at any given time, and thus can give the system a lot of rope to compensate for lag. This doesn't work for competitive games for obvious reasons, the rats wont mind getting gibbed from too far away or behind a corner and the game isn't impacted much by players seeing slightly different positions on stuff from time to time.
This is also why sometimes shit goes through walls and wonks around, it also lends itself to cheating as the individual peers system gets comparatively much say in what "actually happens". In the end I find these kinds of games can utilize p2p the best.
Like, having done it I genuinely can't even figure out how some of the stuff in it happens coding wise. At a certain point in the exploit it literally causes the game to spawn nothing but already dead rag dolls.
Today netted me an exotic dagger/sword combo with heroic killing blow and regrowth, and a blue swift bow with bloodlust. All rolled in their upper 25% ranges!
That on top of clearing everything on hard.
I played with controller for a bit, but mouse and keyboard is just way better for aiming, and I tend to play the elf a lot so I need to aim accurately a lot
I also got a bow that has some kind of homing arrows, but not sure exactly how it works. When I right click aim at something it will turn red, then the arrow will spin around it, but sometimes it goes for other stuff too?
The loot lists have multiple permutations, but the most common for Nightmare is 3/2/2/1 and for Hard 2/2/2/2. That doesn't look like much, but on average your loot is 'twice as good'.
If you rate them along a points system (1 for White, 5 for Green, etc.) due to fusing, your average loot looks like this:
Two slots for orange items is nowhere close to the average for hard though. 2/2/2/2 might be the most common permutation, but there are so many with 1/X/X/X that I see two orange items less than half the time.
Pretty sure it's just that I haven't adjusted to how to play this game (I'm not much for shooters, but team-based PvE stuff is great, so). Any good guides to the characters and general gameplay yet? Any videos I saw that said they were all about that kinda... weren't.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
1) Your job is not to take damage. Everything else is secondary. Learn what to do to not take damage.
1a) Stay together, especially if you don't know the map
1b) During hordes, bunch up and be sure that someone is constantly looking behind, even if nothing is happening there
1c) Learn to block, learn to push, learn to dodge
1d) Fight first, loot later
1e) Kill what you can at ranged, but don't get caught with your ranged weapon in close combat, because you can't block, and melee kills are faster most of the time.
2) Swing when you want to swing. Don't spam attacks, learn the arcs of your weapons, try have rat heads in the middle of the swing. Learn the timing on your heavy attacks. In stressy situations this is where I still make mistakes, think "gotta kill rats fast" and take swipes from the side during animations etcet.
3) There are basically 2 kinds of ranged weapons: Snipers to quickly kill specials, and AoEs that clear commons. This is mostly clear if the weapon has 'armor penetration' or not. Without armor penetration, the best you can do is chain headshots which stuns until they die, but it can take a long time. The long barrel guns are often 1 shot hits.
For the waywatcher in particular, the dagger/sword combo is seen as the best weapon because it has huge headshot damage on normal kills, which means that it can very quickly mow through commons.
The shortbow is pretty disappointing I found, and even the poison version is situational. It does a small AoE but the damage seems low. I much favor the longbow, which 1 shot hits on approriate item levels, (blues on hard, orange on nightmare for sure) and penetrates, which means that if you have a good angle you can kill rats 3 at a time.