The problem is the game is a decade old and the content pipeline for it was designed back then, when the concept of rapid iteration was a pipe dream. They constantly allude to bottlenecks that mean they can't just throw more devs and artists at the problem to get things done faster. What they'd need to do is a full systems overhaul so they can eliminate those bottlenecks but after Cata they're pretty gunshy about doing a bunch of work to fix something that doesn't directly apply to endlevel engagement even though if they actually fixed this it'd help massively for every expansion down the road.
speaking of which, from the engineering roundtable that wasn't streamed:
The WoW representative described a picture that makes the rounds at the office describing WoW: a trash can, with an iron on it (plugged in and running), with a coffee pot on top, with spaghetti and water in the coffee pot. "Problem solved!"
It's actually ramen.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I can only assume the trash can is a metaphor for Warlods.
No more dual specs, I guess. You just have access to everything from go.
?
All classes will have access to all specs. No more having to pick two
I'm betting they're taking a page from FFXI/XIV and making it so changing your weapon changes your spec.
Nah I bet it'll be like it is today, just with all spec icons on the right hand side. They still want you to be able to change weapons on the fly, even in combat
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited November 2015
I'd imagine it'll be like Hunter pets, where you go to the spec selection screen and then hit the "activate" button on whichever spec you want.
Still good but it's a little too low on single target damage - we just buffed that but it's not one of the stars
There will be a new Storm, Earth, and Fire - right now it's cumbersome, you cant really know what it's about by looking at the button
New: its a toggle like Blade Flurry, when it's on you split, when it's off you are one
They have semi AI, they know to attack different target than you
Downside is less control but upside is it will always be doing something useful
Artifacts: easy to level for 2 specs?
The further you are behind, the easier it is to catch up most of the way
Maintaining off specs is more difficult but not impossible - you'll be very slightly behind on the 2nd spec
But for those very far behind, the traits are cheaper to get although you'll be doing the same activities
Hopefully you won't want to change specs with the new class fantasy fulfillment!
Moonkin updates:
There have been multiple failures - so we said let's revamp it entirely
Core problem with moonkin is the whole spec is a bar cycle on your UI
You are playing the UI game - that's done
Now there are builders and spenders with diff strengths and weaknesses and reasons to use them.
Moonkin still have fantasy of being a Druid that calls down power of the stars.
Moonkin changes seems to imply that Eclipse is finally gone and done. Good riddance, that whole mechanic has been terrible ever since they introduced it in Wrath.
Unless you could assign a weapon to a spec or something, but you would have to do that far too often while leveling. They would have to start all new characters with an heirloom weapon or something. Which, might not be the worst idea since you're looking down the barrel of 110 levels when you start now.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
How would this system react to a Death Knight equipping a two-handed mace, or a rogue equipping a mace or an axe? How would it know the difference between fire and frost mage, brewmaster and mistweaver, or holy and disc, or any warlock spec, which all use a staff?
The class changes and balance details are encouraging! It's great to have them really focus on classes this expansion.
Discipline priest being outlined as a 30% dps/70% healer is interesting. I'll take any change over what we have now. Strength through static and boring game-play.
Hm.
With the removal of Aspect of the Fox and Amplify Magic mid-way through this expansion I really thought they were working against hybridization and unique niche powers as they were seen as unfair. However with the new Discipline concept they clearly don't mind niche hybridization. Furthermore they talk about diversifying utility spells in the druid section: Feral and Guardian druids get exclusive access to stampeding roar, Balance gets innervate, and Restoration will get something that overcharges their mark of the wild for a cooldown. How are these really different than Aspect of the Fox and Amplify Magic? Strange reversal on their part, but I like it.
S'always a little annoying to hear about these now as it just gets me itching. It's clear the expansion is little under a year off though...
Really I like loitering in cities for the social stuff
not hanging out in my garrison
I do hope the class halls are a social thing since the realm I am on is rather dead
not joking, I believe more than 80% of my playtime in vanilla was hanging out in Ironforge
There was a belt on a wall to the south of the bank area I used to hang out on my rogue on when flying came in Cata they removed it
I was sad
The top of huts near the bank in Org was where I hung out for years
The problem is the game is a decade old and the content pipeline for it was designed back then, when the concept of rapid iteration was a pipe dream. They constantly allude to bottlenecks that mean they can't just throw more devs and artists at the problem to get things done faster. What they'd need to do is a full systems overhaul so they can eliminate those bottlenecks but after Cata they're pretty gunshy about doing a bunch of work to fix something that doesn't directly apply to endlevel engagement even though if they actually fixed this it'd help massively for every expansion down the road.
speaking of which, from the engineering roundtable that wasn't streamed:
The WoW representative described a picture that makes the rounds at the office describing WoW: a trash can, with an iron on it (plugged in and running), with a coffee pot on top, with spaghetti and water in the coffee pot. "Problem solved!"
It's actually ramen.
After reading through the mmo champ summary of the engineering panel it's pretty clear things are even worse than I imagined.
+4
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Major Glyphs gone? I know they seem to be adding a little more pominent customization back but I would not be surprised if it is not as good as it sounds on paper. Meanwhile, more oversimplifying.
They might as well just get rid of glyphs and inscription entirely because they just don't seem to like it.
0
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
The problem is the game is a decade old and the content pipeline for it was designed back then, when the concept of rapid iteration was a pipe dream. They constantly allude to bottlenecks that mean they can't just throw more devs and artists at the problem to get things done faster. What they'd need to do is a full systems overhaul so they can eliminate those bottlenecks but after Cata they're pretty gunshy about doing a bunch of work to fix something that doesn't directly apply to endlevel engagement even though if they actually fixed this it'd help massively for every expansion down the road.
speaking of which, from the engineering roundtable that wasn't streamed:
The WoW representative described a picture that makes the rounds at the office describing WoW: a trash can, with an iron on it (plugged in and running), with a coffee pot on top, with spaghetti and water in the coffee pot. "Problem solved!"
It's actually ramen.
After reading through the mmo champ summary of the engineering panel it's pretty clear things are even worse than I imagined.
Sounds pretty bad, a 10-year old engine with lots of static coding that needs to be painstakingly searched and fixed before implementing even minor changes.
People who have played the demo are reporting that everything is shared tag. No more competing for tagging mobs.
Excellent. If they overhaul the resource gathering stuff to be personally phased like GW2, I think I'd go slap money on a pre-order immediately (still probably getting Legion, but that'd be a huge 'good job, Blizz' for me).
Welp, they did, so I did.
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
That was a really good read and actually makes their engineering people seem like a really awesome place to work.
But oh my god, I cannot believe someone hasn't convinced them to put all this effort into just moving on to a new game. I bet they could find a way to move all information into a WoW2 essentially in less time than it takes to update a single aspect of the current game. Yikes.
+3
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
That was a really good read and actually makes their engineering people seem like a really awesome place to work.
But oh my god, I cannot believe someone hasn't convinced them to put all this effort into just moving on to a new game. I bet they could find a way to move all information into a WoW2 essentially in less time than it takes to update a single aspect of the current game. Yikes.
Word. You would think that at some point SOMEBODY with a corner office would have decided, "We are killing ourselves trying to drag along all of this outdated code, time to start from scratch".
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
This is exactly what I've been saying forever - the fact that they're still using this bastardized Frankenstein of an engine (which admittedly they've managed to get far more life out of than I'm sure even they expected) instead of even something off the shelf like UE5 or something is just flabbergasting. They addressed that during the talk by saying essentially "we'd rather use our old busted-ass custom engine than learn something else from scratch" but man, there has to have been a point at which it made sense financially. How much time have they had to spend rejigging old code to fit some new idea or scrapping a cool idea because the old engine simply wouldn't support it? Meanwhile newer games with less experienced developers are just showing off these ridiculous new games and making WoW look like WoW made EQ look when it launched.
That was a really good read and actually makes their engineering people seem like a really awesome place to work.
But oh my god, I cannot believe someone hasn't convinced them to put all this effort into just moving on to a new game. I bet they could find a way to move all information into a WoW2 essentially in less time than it takes to update a single aspect of the current game. Yikes.
Word. You would think that at some point SOMEBODY with a corner office would have decided, "We are killing ourselves trying to drag along all of this outdated code, time to start from scratch".
Between Warlords model and turf remake, and cataclysm's changes to vanilla, WoW pretty much is remade. We're just so used to the content by now that we don't realize how much of it's been redone.
It sounds like they fight constantly with legacy code written during or before 2004
There's no way they're using legacy code with the number of updates WoW has been through.
I think this is turning into an argument of terminology. Code doesn't need to be, strictly speaking, legacy code for it to be the equivalent of a gordian knot.
The fact that the WoW dev team has been working with a 10+ year old code base essentially guarantees that there are some parts that are much more sound than others, and the parts that are less sound are likely way less sound.
Honestly I think that any promises of <year turnaround on major content patches sounds like a marketing promise that engineering not only couldn't possibly keep, but would laugh at anyone who suggested it. Over time, content patches will tend to deliver less and take more time, and WoW has done exactly that.
Yeah trying to suggest they aren't using legacy code when they've said, flat out, they can't logistically increase the base 16 slot bag/remove it/make it replaceable because it could just absolutely break all the UI.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
While I'm happy for the rogues who play Combat, as an Assassination player I'm dreading reading what I'm fairly confident will be "No Major Changes". Frost DKs are apparently identical to their live counterparts with (thus far at least) no changes planned, which sucks for them. Not that every spec needs an overhaul, but when some specs are getting rebuilt from the ground up, having others not even get a fresh coat of paint is pretty disappointing. Assassination rogues have been one of the most simplistic, rote playstyles in the game simply because it involves (especially since WoD) all of two to three buttons. Arms warriors are in the same boat.
The devs went too far with the ability prune in WoD and if the overpruned specs don't at least get some flavor or variety back in the specs it will be, as they say in polite society, pretty fuckin' shitty.
35 Focus, Melee Range, Instant, 10 sec cooldown
Tear a wound in the target, dealing heavy damage over 12 sec.
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I'm betting they're taking a page from FFXI/XIV and making it so changing your weapon changes your spec.
probably not, since lowbies don't have artifacts
Nah I bet it'll be like it is today, just with all spec icons on the right hand side. They still want you to be able to change weapons on the fly, even in combat
edit: Some new news about class changes and mechanics: http://www.wowhead.com/news=249804/darkmoon-faire-community-amphitheatre-lore-systems-class-changes (scroll down to Day 2)
Some good stuff
Moonkin changes seems to imply that Eclipse is finally gone and done. Good riddance, that whole mechanic has been terrible ever since they introduced it in Wrath.
this really is the last datapoint I need to convince me to retire my shaman and just main druid
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I didn't say artifacts.
weapons are not spec-specific prior to artifacts tho
Discipline priest being outlined as a 30% dps/70% healer is interesting. I'll take any change over what we have now. Strength through static and boring game-play.
Hm.
With the removal of Aspect of the Fox and Amplify Magic mid-way through this expansion I really thought they were working against hybridization and unique niche powers as they were seen as unfair. However with the new Discipline concept they clearly don't mind niche hybridization. Furthermore they talk about diversifying utility spells in the druid section: Feral and Guardian druids get exclusive access to stampeding roar, Balance gets innervate, and Restoration will get something that overcharges their mark of the wild for a cooldown. How are these really different than Aspect of the Fox and Amplify Magic? Strange reversal on their part, but I like it.
S'always a little annoying to hear about these now as it just gets me itching. It's clear the expansion is little under a year off though...
There was a belt on a wall to the south of the bank area I used to hang out on my rogue on when flying came in Cata they removed it
I was sad
The top of huts near the bank in Org was where I hung out for years
After reading through the mmo champ summary of the engineering panel it's pretty clear things are even worse than I imagined.
They might as well just get rid of glyphs and inscription entirely because they just don't seem to like it.
Here's a link to it: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/5262-Engineering-Community-Amphitheater-Discussion
Sounds pretty bad, a 10-year old engine with lots of static coding that needs to be painstakingly searched and fixed before implementing even minor changes.
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Welp, they did, so I did.
But oh my god, I cannot believe someone hasn't convinced them to put all this effort into just moving on to a new game. I bet they could find a way to move all information into a WoW2 essentially in less time than it takes to update a single aspect of the current game. Yikes.
Word. You would think that at some point SOMEBODY with a corner office would have decided, "We are killing ourselves trying to drag along all of this outdated code, time to start from scratch".
Between Warlords model and turf remake, and cataclysm's changes to vanilla, WoW pretty much is remade. We're just so used to the content by now that we don't realize how much of it's been redone.
It sounds like they fight constantly with legacy code written during or before 2004
There's no way they're using legacy code with the number of updates WoW has been through.
I think this is turning into an argument of terminology. Code doesn't need to be, strictly speaking, legacy code for it to be the equivalent of a gordian knot.
The fact that the WoW dev team has been working with a 10+ year old code base essentially guarantees that there are some parts that are much more sound than others, and the parts that are less sound are likely way less sound.
Honestly I think that any promises of <year turnaround on major content patches sounds like a marketing promise that engineering not only couldn't possibly keep, but would laugh at anyone who suggested it. Over time, content patches will tend to deliver less and take more time, and WoW has done exactly that.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OLcAGbXhWIVcl5IziVpG0eKFJS3xi_Sac9kYMkRFvD8/edit?usp=sharing
Previous draw distance increases have been worldwide.
The devs went too far with the ability prune in WoD and if the overpruned specs don't at least get some flavor or variety back in the specs it will be, as they say in polite society, pretty fuckin' shitty.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
They sure do bandy about "core fantasy" a lot for some pretty generic archetypes.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OLcAGbXhWIVcl5IziVpG0eKFJS3xi_Sac9kYMkRFvD8/edit?usp=sharing
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
Survival gets Mongoose Bite. I just saved you several minutes.
Steam: pazython
Hah!
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