AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
I don't think that's really fair?
They aren't meant to be identical. The world knows the old gods exist. We fight their physical manifestions. Blizzard cribbed what they wanted from the idea and rolled it into their universe.
+1
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Blizzard is completely missing the whole point of Cthulhu mythos, namely that you're not supposed to actually see the monsters because then they are mundane. That's why people take sanity damage looking at them in Call of Cthulhu and they're only described in brief phrases that are the closest to what the viewer can interpret of the monstrosity mortals can't comprehend. Because the less a monster is seen the more our imagination will be able to do than any amount of CG could accomplish.
The problem is that it's fundamentally incompatible with the core foundation of MMO philosophy, in that "if you can't kill it, get bigger numbers until you can."
Yeah there are enemies that players can "fear" in a sense, however it'd be in an entirely ironic fashion i.e. Devilsaurs. The concepts of "fear" are so alien to MMO players by the nature of the way the genre is constructed, that attempting to place a true representation of a Lovecraft horror into the game will do nothing but result in players instead getting pissed off and crying on the forums about "unfair mechanics".
Not to mention the "Blizzney" art style they've so heavily been pushing after Warcraft 3 really doesn't lend itself to any sort of true horror elements.
I agree she didn't get any face time after that, but everyone should know who she is unless they don't read quests or pay attention to what they're doing, and if that's the case then I think they only have themselves to blame.
I am one of those people
Me too, even when I try and make a point of reading the quests.... There's just so many and I have so little time. And I get it, you have problems with murlocks....
It'd be nice if there was an overarching main quest that I could pay attention to, but as it stands it's too much of a pain in the ass for me to suss out the story through the multitude of quests you get (not to mention all the quests you don't get because you're leveling in a different zone).
I've never really seen WoW as a story focused game. I think it's there for those who want to find it, but I think you actually have to want to find it.
As it takes more and more quests/exp to hit cap I read them less and less. You dont even have to read it for the objectives anymore. You just need to run to the blue area on the map. All the story I get is through the cut scenes or when an npc is talking before it lets me turn in/pickup the next thing.
You won't see any until at least Cata. They used cutscenes very rarely in Wrath (Only one I can think of that isn't attached to a raid is the Wrathgate), and I don't think at all before that. In Cata they used a couple, but mainly in-engine. Same with MoP. I think the rash of lots of pre-rendered cutscenes really doesn't start until WoD, where you'll have at least one per zone if you complete the zone.
You won't see any until at least Cata. They used cutscenes very rarely in Wrath (Only one I can think of that isn't attached to a raid is the Wrathgate), and I don't think at all before that. In Cata they used a couple, but mainly in-engine. Same with MoP. I think the rash of lots of pre-rendered cutscenes really doesn't start until WoD, where you'll have at least one per zone if you complete the zone.
Cata also put a bunch in low level zones using in-game engine. Redridge and Stonetalon come to mind. Usually at the end of a zone-long quest chain, so if you are moving on before you "complete" a zone you miss it.
Looks like the patch really screwed things up. When I try to get to my character, it loads to 90% or so, boots me out, and says 'character not found.' Other people have had trouble connecting as well. Hopefully this gets fixed soon
Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Pretty sure they had that exact same bug earlier in the expansion.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Looks like the patch really screwed things up. When I try to get to my character, it loads to 90% or so, boots me out, and says 'character not found.' Other people have had trouble connecting as well. Hopefully this gets fixed soon
That's usually related to server instability, not patching.
Looks like the patch really screwed things up. When I try to get to my character, it loads to 90% or so, boots me out, and says 'character not found.' Other people have had trouble connecting as well. Hopefully this gets fixed soon
That's usually related to server instability, not patching.
Whatever they tried to do to the bnet infrastructure wrecked things pretty hard.
Everything seems to be working fine now. But omg BGs are 10x worse now than they were before because of the bonus. Pve people whining about how pvp sucks, undergeared people whining about how their faction sucks, premades rolling non premades, with all combinations of the previous as well.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Completing the battlegrounds for the weekly isn't too bad with pve gear if you mainly just queue Alterac Valley, since the factions still largely ignore eachother and treat it like a pve race.
Well, as long as you don't die and then have to run back. Otherwise you're looking at running past a train of nothing but ret paladins that judge you for 60k+ from 20 yards away because resilience was always a shitty mechanic.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Honor PvP Gear goes to 730 ilvl while in PvP (Conquest to 740), comparing a 710 ilvl to that is like saying people in LFR gear should be able to beat Mythic bosses.
Completing the battlegrounds for the weekly isn't too bad with pve gear if you mainly just queue Alterac Valley, since the factions still largely ignore eachother and treat it like a pve race.
Well, as long as you don't die and then have to run back. Otherwise you're looking at running past a train of nothing but ret paladins that judge you for 60k+ from 20 yards away because resilience was always a shitty mechanic.
Gear balance is not out of whack in PvP. Wearing Mythic level gear I was on par with those who had 730 PvP Conquest gear and even won the Colisseum as a Frost DK with Dual Wield, no tank shenanigans at all. Again, tanks do not belong in PvP and they SHOULD be utterly destroyed in it. I won the Colisseum finally by focusing only on the tanks and healers trying to turtle and wiped them out until it was between me and a Fury Warrior.
Gear entry balance is what is out of whack. A brand new player entering battlegrounds or Ashran is going to get massacred because they don't have that special gear. Likely they've got some Baleful pieces, so maybe average ilevel of 660, and I'm being really generous, when they ding 100. So they go in and 660 vs 730 is not even a contest. Such is how it has always been late in seasons. Legion claims to be fixing this with gear meaning nothing so everyone is on an equal playing field, aside from talents (which could end up being just as broken), but we'll see.
Completing the battlegrounds for the weekly isn't too bad with pve gear if you mainly just queue Alterac Valley, since the factions still largely ignore eachother and treat it like a pve race.
Well, as long as you don't die and then have to run back. Otherwise you're looking at running past a train of nothing but ret paladins that judge you for 60k+ from 20 yards away because resilience was always a shitty mechanic.
Resilience doesn't exist anymore.
Right, I forgot about this. So they just hit that hard because they hit that hard - even better.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
They hit that hard because they are ilvl 740. I'm not sure what you're expecting from highly-geared players.
They're also popping cooldowns guaranteed. The trinkets grant a shot of Versatility, which outright boosts damage alone. Just the thing to tear through a player.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Honor PvP Gear goes to 730 ilvl while in PvP (Conquest to 740), comparing a 710 ilvl to that is like saying people in LFR gear should be able to beat Mythic bosses.
You have to pvp to get pvp gear, going in with the highest level pve gear you can get without actually doing raiding, still results in you dying nearly instantly to someone with the highest level gear. There is no "non mythic pvp" mode for the player to join, so your argument is moot.
That is bad. That player has no incentive to continue to play PvP, since there is literally nothing they can do. The gear difference should give the other person the advantage, and they should probably always win the fight. But the other player should not being dying in like 5 seconds without even scratching the other person.
This is why people complain about battlegrounds. There is no way to prepare and gear up for it, except to be able to do heroic/mythic raids, which not everyone can do. So instead you have to just get facerolled until you get enough points to buy gear so you can actually play the mode. Which is terrible terrible design.
e:
Madican, you are still completely missing my point about tanks. Maybe read what I said, then try making an argument? Or just keep beating at that strawman.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Honor PvP Gear goes to 730 ilvl while in PvP (Conquest to 740), comparing a 710 ilvl to that is like saying people in LFR gear should be able to beat Mythic bosses.
You have to pvp to get pvp gear, going in with the highest level pve gear you can get without actually doing raiding, still results in you dying nearly instantly to someone with the highest level gear. There is no "non mythic pvp" mode for the player to join, so your argument is moot.
That is bad. That player has no incentive to continue to play PvP, since there is literally nothing they can do. The gear difference should give the other person the advantage, and they should probably always win the fight. But the other player should not being dying in like 5 seconds without even scratching the other person.
This is why people complain about battlegrounds. There is no way to prepare and gear up for it, except to be able to do heroic/mythic raids, which not everyone can do. So instead you have to just get facerolled until you get enough points to buy gear so you can actually play the mode. Which is terrible terrible design.
e:
Madican, you are still completely missing my point about tanks. Maybe read what I said, then try making an argument? Or just keep beating at that strawman.
You can very easily do ashran to completely gear up in a couple of hours. Especially if you get into a group that is going through the quest multiple times. Otherwise, doing the daily bonus objectives in ashran takes all of 5 minutes and gets you a few hundred honor from completing them and a bit more from turning in the artifacts. In addition the, gladiator's sanctum craps out gear, honor, and even a little conquest. Tol Borad is free honor every couple of hours. That stuff is all doable in pve gear. Battlegrounds are the absolute worst way to get geared because if you aren't carrying the team you probably won't be winning.
People who are wearing pve gear in pvp also generally don't tend to fix their talents and glyphs to match what they are doing. The ideal setup for raiding and pvp are often very different. The stat priority can even be different, which means that even though someone is wearing top of the line raiding gear, they are actually all messed up for pvp.
I mess around in pvp as brewmaster every once in a while. I don't do the greatest damage, but i throw out a ton of slows and disorients, can defend flags against multiple people for a good amount of time, and can shield allies for a lot in smaller skirmishes. It's not the best spec, but I certainly don't get killed in a global unless it's a legit like 5v1 burst. I always see a bunch of people complaining about getting killed really fast only to see them letting a warlock freecast chaos bolt over and over on them or are just doing something flat out wrong.
Personally I think it is stupid that anyone in pve gear is complaining that they can't pvp. If you try to join even a normal pve raid while in pvp gear you will either flat out be denied or kicked as soon as someone inspects you. That people in pve gear can even participate in pvp is more generous than the pve community would allow. If you want to access the other half of the game, earn your gear. *note I am not pointing this at anyone in particular, just that it is a double standard that exists between communities.*
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Honor PvP Gear goes to 730 ilvl while in PvP (Conquest to 740), comparing a 710 ilvl to that is like saying people in LFR gear should be able to beat Mythic bosses.
You have to pvp to get pvp gear, going in with the highest level pve gear you can get without actually doing raiding, still results in you dying nearly instantly to someone with the highest level gear. There is no "non mythic pvp" mode for the player to join, so your argument is moot.
That is bad. That player has no incentive to continue to play PvP, since there is literally nothing they can do. The gear difference should give the other person the advantage, and they should probably always win the fight. But the other player should not being dying in like 5 seconds without even scratching the other person.
This is why people complain about battlegrounds. There is no way to prepare and gear up for it, except to be able to do heroic/mythic raids, which not everyone can do. So instead you have to just get facerolled until you get enough points to buy gear so you can actually play the mode. Which is terrible terrible design.
e:
Madican, you are still completely missing my point about tanks. Maybe read what I said, then try making an argument? Or just keep beating at that strawman.
This is really my biggest problem with the PVP design in WOD. It has a HUGE barrier to entry for anybody who wants to start to try pvp. They start pvp get utterly wrecked like they are standing around naked until they endure the frustration long enough to accumulate some pvp gear to at least not die in a couple hits. This does not give much incentive for the borderline folks who kind of want to try PVP to stick with it. They go in get shredded helplessly then leave pvp and never go back again.
I think this whole issue is why they are going to such a big revamp on how PVP is handled in Legion. The new ways they are working cures a lot of the negative incentive issue we currently see.
Hopefully the prestige awards for resetting the pvp level are cool. Or else people will just hit 50 and thats it. Im all for stat regulation so long as they actually tune it when necessary. It will end up really showing people whether they are good at pvp or have just been stomping undergeared people. I cant help but think the pvp only spells would have a lot of cool uses in pve though, especially the ones that currently are usable that are being pushed to pvp.
On another note, i finally watched the legion trailer and if sylvanas is as badass in the expansion as she was in the video, i may have to play horde. It totally makes sense that she does something as alleria is supposed to make an appearance, and she probably still has some beef with the legion helping contribute to her current state. Screw varian, i hope he finally dies though.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Honor PvP Gear goes to 730 ilvl while in PvP (Conquest to 740), comparing a 710 ilvl to that is like saying people in LFR gear should be able to beat Mythic bosses.
You have to pvp to get pvp gear, going in with the highest level pve gear you can get without actually doing raiding, still results in you dying nearly instantly to someone with the highest level gear. There is no "non mythic pvp" mode for the player to join, so your argument is moot.
That is bad. That player has no incentive to continue to play PvP, since there is literally nothing they can do. The gear difference should give the other person the advantage, and they should probably always win the fight. But the other player should not being dying in like 5 seconds without even scratching the other person.
This is why people complain about battlegrounds. There is no way to prepare and gear up for it, except to be able to do heroic/mythic raids, which not everyone can do. So instead you have to just get facerolled until you get enough points to buy gear so you can actually play the mode. Which is terrible terrible design.
e:
Madican, you are still completely missing my point about tanks. Maybe read what I said, then try making an argument? Or just keep beating at that strawman.
What strawman? You're whining that because you have a little higher health then you shouldn't be dying so quick against people who outgear you and render that health negligible and how it renders a whole class unviable in PvP.
First off, tank is not a class, it is a spec. No class is unviable in PvP, you just refuse to change to the viable specs. Second, you are not a tank in PvP. A tank in PvE is a tank because they have healers, they can anticipate mechanics, and their abilities are designed to keep them alive against bosses that have aggro on them to survive big hits. A tank in PvP is weak because there is no aggro, a player can bait your defenses and wait until they're down then annihilate you with lots of smaller hits, and healers are more interested in keeping the DPS alive than someone who can't contribute.
You want to gear up? Ashran and Gladiator Sanctum. Avengers Ashran in particular got me honor-capped multiple times a day. Stepping into a battleground fresh-faced and whining about being able to do nothing against the peeople grinding conquest since season start is like stepping into a raid fresh-faced and whining about being out DPS'd by the raider farming the place for months. Their gear, their skill, and their ability is much higher than yours and you should not be trying to compete in their domain.
The be fair, the gap in gear is pretty ridiculous in pvp right now. Like ilvl 710 tank dying nearly instantly to a geared pvp'er bad.
Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Honor PvP Gear goes to 730 ilvl while in PvP (Conquest to 740), comparing a 710 ilvl to that is like saying people in LFR gear should be able to beat Mythic bosses.
You have to pvp to get pvp gear, going in with the highest level pve gear you can get without actually doing raiding, still results in you dying nearly instantly to someone with the highest level gear. There is no "non mythic pvp" mode for the player to join, so your argument is moot.
That is bad. That player has no incentive to continue to play PvP, since there is literally nothing they can do. The gear difference should give the other person the advantage, and they should probably always win the fight. But the other player should not being dying in like 5 seconds without even scratching the other person.
This is why people complain about battlegrounds. There is no way to prepare and gear up for it, except to be able to do heroic/mythic raids, which not everyone can do. So instead you have to just get facerolled until you get enough points to buy gear so you can actually play the mode. Which is terrible terrible design.
e:
Madican, you are still completely missing my point about tanks. Maybe read what I said, then try making an argument? Or just keep beating at that strawman.
What strawman? You're whining that because you have a little higher health then you shouldn't be dying so quick against people who outgear you and render that health negligible and how it renders a whole class unviable in PvP.
First off, tank is not a class, it is a spec. No class is unviable in PvP, you just refuse to change to the viable specs. Second, you are not a tank in PvP. A tank in PvE is a tank because they have healers, they can anticipate mechanics, and their abilities are designed to keep them alive against bosses that have aggro on them to survive big hits. A tank in PvP is weak because there is no aggro, a player can bait your defenses and wait until they're down then annihilate you with lots of smaller hits, and healers are more interested in keeping the DPS alive than someone who can't contribute.
You want to gear up? Ashran and Gladiator Sanctum. Avengers Ashran in particular got me honor-capped multiple times a day. Stepping into a battleground fresh-faced and whining about being able to do nothing against the peeople grinding conquest since season start is like stepping into a raid fresh-faced and whining about being out DPS'd by the raider farming the place for months. Their gear, their skill, and their ability is much higher than yours and you should not be trying to compete in their domain.
This. This is the strawman you are beating on.
I said, as a decently geared pve tank, I can go into pvp, have my defenses up, and still be obliterated nearly instantly. I am making no claims as to how effective I should be as a tank, I am not claiming I should be able to roflestomp the deeps.
You are then focusing on the fact that tanks should not be in pvp at all, completely ignoring the point I am actually making. Which is, a player who is setup and geared for taking spikes of damage, is still dying almost instantaneously. This isn't being hit by a lot of little hits, this isn't from a healer not being there to sustain me. This is me going in, and like 5 seconds into a fight being dead. A dps player in the same level of gear is going to be in even worse shape. The damage output scale is out of whack.
There is no skill involved in this disparity. They are winning purely for the fact they have ground out more battles. Nothing more. If the difference in gear is going to be that different, then they need to put people over 720 ilvl into their own battlegrounds bracket, and let them beat on each other.
Also I need you to take the snark and eliteness out of your responses by about 200%. I am not "whining" about anything, I made a claim as to why people are upset as to when they go into battlegrounds and backed it up with a personal experience.
A tank is built to take spikes of damage from an npc whose damage output is designed around that fact and assumed to have healing support. Human players--especially when there's more than one beating on you--out dps a boss by an order of magnitude so a tank not being able to hold up against them--especially when they don't have 3 healers healing them--makes perfect sense. It's like trying to tank a Mythic boss in LFR gear with no healers and then complaining that you died too quick. It's just math.
Also Enigmedic, in WoD PvP gear is 100% usable in PvE, that's the whole point behind the pvp ilvl increase system. The only difference between the two types of gear is that you cannot upgrade PvP gear with Valor so if someone is kicking you for wearing ilvl 700 PvP gear in content that ilvl 700 PvE gear would be fine then they're an idiot and you're better off not suffering through their stupidity.
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
PvP gear tends to have too much versatility to be really good for PvE, and it's also missing set bonuses, which are huge. You can easily have a 20% DPS difference or more between two equal ilvl players, if one is in PvP gear.
A tank is built to take spikes of damage from an npc whose damage output is designed around that fact and assumed to have healing support. Human players--especially when there's more than one beating on you--out dps a boss by an order of magnitude so a tank not being able to hold up against them--especially when they don't have 3 healers healing them--makes perfect sense. It's like trying to tank a Mythic boss in LFR gear with no healers and then complaining that you died too quick. It's just math.
Also Enigmedic, in WoD PvP gear is 100% usable in PvE, that's the whole point behind the pvp ilvl increase system. The only difference between the two types of gear is that you cannot upgrade PvP gear with Valor so if someone is kicking you for wearing ilvl 700 PvP gear in content that ilvl 700 PvE gear would be fine then they're an idiot and you're better off not suffering through their stupidity.
Still not reading what I actually wrote, and beating on the tank strawman.
So let me simplify this.
I am a class/spec. What class/spec? Doesn't matter.
I am geared towards defensive stats. I still die nearly instantly in pvp, because of the gear imbalance in high level pvp gear.
Another class who is not geared with defensive stats, but at the same level is going to die even faster. They are not having fun when trying out pvp for the first time. They are not going to continue to get punched in the face to gear up to level the playing field.
A tank is built to take spikes of damage from an npc whose damage output is designed around that fact and assumed to have healing support. Human players--especially when there's more than one beating on you--out dps a boss by an order of magnitude so a tank not being able to hold up against them--especially when they don't have 3 healers healing them--makes perfect sense. It's like trying to tank a Mythic boss in LFR gear with no healers and then complaining that you died too quick. It's just math.
Also Enigmedic, in WoD PvP gear is 100% usable in PvE, that's the whole point behind the pvp ilvl increase system. The only difference between the two types of gear is that you cannot upgrade PvP gear with Valor so if someone is kicking you for wearing ilvl 700 PvP gear in content that ilvl 700 PvE gear would be fine then they're an idiot and you're better off not suffering through their stupidity.
Still not reading what I actually wrote, and beating on the tank strawman.
So let me simplify this.
I am a class/spec. What class/spec? Doesn't matter.
I am geared towards defensive stats. I still die nearly instantly in pvp, because of the gear imbalance in high level pvp gear.
Another class who is not geared with defensive stats, but at the same level is going to die even faster. They are not having fun when trying out pvp for the first time. They are not going to continue to get punched in the face to gear up to level the playing field.
How is that functionally different than trying to pve while undergeared? If youre an undergeared tank and try to do a raid above your gear youre still going to get 2 shot. I would argue it is less fun for more people if an undergeared tank dies in pve as the whole group will suffer the wipe. In pvp you can function with one less person. It's the same situation for both, an undergeared person is trying to do something that requires higher gear than they have.
Like multiple people have said, do ashran and gladiators sanctum to get at least the honor gear. The blue gear puts you ahead of the vast majority of people, and you will likely get a few of the epic pieces in rhe process. BGs are garbage for honor except during the bonus event(if you are winning). BGs are where you go to play around, not get geared.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
@Morkath the part that I think you're not understanding is that it's not a bad thing if someone ilvl 740 can kill someone ilvl 710 in 5 seconds.
That's how gear is supposed to work.
It has always been the case that late in an expansion, you all but have to resign yourself to having to go into PvP battles and get wrecked for a while, while you build up honor for the blue PvP gear.
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They aren't meant to be identical. The world knows the old gods exist. We fight their physical manifestions. Blizzard cribbed what they wanted from the idea and rolled it into their universe.
Actually, the new Chronicle lore book that came out gives the Old Gods a vested interest in keeping Azeroth more or less intact, so who knows?
The problem is that it's fundamentally incompatible with the core foundation of MMO philosophy, in that "if you can't kill it, get bigger numbers until you can."
Yeah there are enemies that players can "fear" in a sense, however it'd be in an entirely ironic fashion i.e. Devilsaurs. The concepts of "fear" are so alien to MMO players by the nature of the way the genre is constructed, that attempting to place a true representation of a Lovecraft horror into the game will do nothing but result in players instead getting pissed off and crying on the forums about "unfair mechanics".
Not to mention the "Blizzney" art style they've so heavily been pushing after Warcraft 3 really doesn't lend itself to any sort of true horror elements.
Me too, even when I try and make a point of reading the quests.... There's just so many and I have so little time. And I get it, you have problems with murlocks....
It'd be nice if there was an overarching main quest that I could pay attention to, but as it stands it's too much of a pain in the ass for me to suss out the story through the multitude of quests you get (not to mention all the quests you don't get because you're leveling in a different zone).
I've never really seen WoW as a story focused game. I think it's there for those who want to find it, but I think you actually have to want to find it.
Personally I'm curious, but so little time...
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I don't remember any cut scenes when BC launched but that was almost a decade ago now...
PSN = PessimistMaximus
Cata also put a bunch in low level zones using in-game engine. Redridge and Stonetalon come to mind. Usually at the end of a zone-long quest chain, so if you are moving on before you "complete" a zone you miss it.
That's usually related to server instability, not patching.
Whatever they tried to do to the bnet infrastructure wrecked things pretty hard.
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Wearing PvE tank gear into PvP just means that person is a target since they won't contribute anything except take up a slot. So I'm not really chuffed about tanks getting wrecked in PvP, they don't belong there and at best waste everyone's time.
Yeah, well;
1, That is bad design that a class is completely useless in an entire aspect of the game.
2, I was pointing out the fact a class designed to weather damage was nearly instantly dying as to why the gear balance is out of whack.
Well, as long as you don't die and then have to run back. Otherwise you're looking at running past a train of nothing but ret paladins that judge you for 60k+ from 20 yards away because resilience was always a shitty mechanic.
Resilience doesn't exist anymore.
Gear entry balance is what is out of whack. A brand new player entering battlegrounds or Ashran is going to get massacred because they don't have that special gear. Likely they've got some Baleful pieces, so maybe average ilevel of 660, and I'm being really generous, when they ding 100. So they go in and 660 vs 730 is not even a contest. Such is how it has always been late in seasons. Legion claims to be fixing this with gear meaning nothing so everyone is on an equal playing field, aside from talents (which could end up being just as broken), but we'll see.
Right, I forgot about this. So they just hit that hard because they hit that hard - even better.
And 60k is not really all that much health.
You have to pvp to get pvp gear, going in with the highest level pve gear you can get without actually doing raiding, still results in you dying nearly instantly to someone with the highest level gear. There is no "non mythic pvp" mode for the player to join, so your argument is moot.
That is bad. That player has no incentive to continue to play PvP, since there is literally nothing they can do. The gear difference should give the other person the advantage, and they should probably always win the fight. But the other player should not being dying in like 5 seconds without even scratching the other person.
This is why people complain about battlegrounds. There is no way to prepare and gear up for it, except to be able to do heroic/mythic raids, which not everyone can do. So instead you have to just get facerolled until you get enough points to buy gear so you can actually play the mode. Which is terrible terrible design.
e:
Madican, you are still completely missing my point about tanks. Maybe read what I said, then try making an argument? Or just keep beating at that strawman.
You can very easily do ashran to completely gear up in a couple of hours. Especially if you get into a group that is going through the quest multiple times. Otherwise, doing the daily bonus objectives in ashran takes all of 5 minutes and gets you a few hundred honor from completing them and a bit more from turning in the artifacts. In addition the, gladiator's sanctum craps out gear, honor, and even a little conquest. Tol Borad is free honor every couple of hours. That stuff is all doable in pve gear. Battlegrounds are the absolute worst way to get geared because if you aren't carrying the team you probably won't be winning.
People who are wearing pve gear in pvp also generally don't tend to fix their talents and glyphs to match what they are doing. The ideal setup for raiding and pvp are often very different. The stat priority can even be different, which means that even though someone is wearing top of the line raiding gear, they are actually all messed up for pvp.
I mess around in pvp as brewmaster every once in a while. I don't do the greatest damage, but i throw out a ton of slows and disorients, can defend flags against multiple people for a good amount of time, and can shield allies for a lot in smaller skirmishes. It's not the best spec, but I certainly don't get killed in a global unless it's a legit like 5v1 burst. I always see a bunch of people complaining about getting killed really fast only to see them letting a warlock freecast chaos bolt over and over on them or are just doing something flat out wrong.
Personally I think it is stupid that anyone in pve gear is complaining that they can't pvp. If you try to join even a normal pve raid while in pvp gear you will either flat out be denied or kicked as soon as someone inspects you. That people in pve gear can even participate in pvp is more generous than the pve community would allow. If you want to access the other half of the game, earn your gear. *note I am not pointing this at anyone in particular, just that it is a double standard that exists between communities.*
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This is really my biggest problem with the PVP design in WOD. It has a HUGE barrier to entry for anybody who wants to start to try pvp. They start pvp get utterly wrecked like they are standing around naked until they endure the frustration long enough to accumulate some pvp gear to at least not die in a couple hits. This does not give much incentive for the borderline folks who kind of want to try PVP to stick with it. They go in get shredded helplessly then leave pvp and never go back again.
On another note, i finally watched the legion trailer and if sylvanas is as badass in the expansion as she was in the video, i may have to play horde. It totally makes sense that she does something as alleria is supposed to make an appearance, and she probably still has some beef with the legion helping contribute to her current state. Screw varian, i hope he finally dies though.
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What strawman? You're whining that because you have a little higher health then you shouldn't be dying so quick against people who outgear you and render that health negligible and how it renders a whole class unviable in PvP.
First off, tank is not a class, it is a spec. No class is unviable in PvP, you just refuse to change to the viable specs. Second, you are not a tank in PvP. A tank in PvE is a tank because they have healers, they can anticipate mechanics, and their abilities are designed to keep them alive against bosses that have aggro on them to survive big hits. A tank in PvP is weak because there is no aggro, a player can bait your defenses and wait until they're down then annihilate you with lots of smaller hits, and healers are more interested in keeping the DPS alive than someone who can't contribute.
You want to gear up? Ashran and Gladiator Sanctum. Avengers Ashran in particular got me honor-capped multiple times a day. Stepping into a battleground fresh-faced and whining about being able to do nothing against the peeople grinding conquest since season start is like stepping into a raid fresh-faced and whining about being out DPS'd by the raider farming the place for months. Their gear, their skill, and their ability is much higher than yours and you should not be trying to compete in their domain.
This. This is the strawman you are beating on.
I said, as a decently geared pve tank, I can go into pvp, have my defenses up, and still be obliterated nearly instantly. I am making no claims as to how effective I should be as a tank, I am not claiming I should be able to roflestomp the deeps.
You are then focusing on the fact that tanks should not be in pvp at all, completely ignoring the point I am actually making. Which is, a player who is setup and geared for taking spikes of damage, is still dying almost instantaneously. This isn't being hit by a lot of little hits, this isn't from a healer not being there to sustain me. This is me going in, and like 5 seconds into a fight being dead. A dps player in the same level of gear is going to be in even worse shape. The damage output scale is out of whack.
There is no skill involved in this disparity. They are winning purely for the fact they have ground out more battles. Nothing more. If the difference in gear is going to be that different, then they need to put people over 720 ilvl into their own battlegrounds bracket, and let them beat on each other.
Also I need you to take the snark and eliteness out of your responses by about 200%. I am not "whining" about anything, I made a claim as to why people are upset as to when they go into battlegrounds and backed it up with a personal experience.
Also Enigmedic, in WoD PvP gear is 100% usable in PvE, that's the whole point behind the pvp ilvl increase system. The only difference between the two types of gear is that you cannot upgrade PvP gear with Valor so if someone is kicking you for wearing ilvl 700 PvP gear in content that ilvl 700 PvE gear would be fine then they're an idiot and you're better off not suffering through their stupidity.
Still not reading what I actually wrote, and beating on the tank strawman.
So let me simplify this.
I am a class/spec. What class/spec? Doesn't matter.
I am geared towards defensive stats. I still die nearly instantly in pvp, because of the gear imbalance in high level pvp gear.
Another class who is not geared with defensive stats, but at the same level is going to die even faster. They are not having fun when trying out pvp for the first time. They are not going to continue to get punched in the face to gear up to level the playing field.
How is that functionally different than trying to pve while undergeared? If youre an undergeared tank and try to do a raid above your gear youre still going to get 2 shot. I would argue it is less fun for more people if an undergeared tank dies in pve as the whole group will suffer the wipe. In pvp you can function with one less person. It's the same situation for both, an undergeared person is trying to do something that requires higher gear than they have.
Like multiple people have said, do ashran and gladiators sanctum to get at least the honor gear. The blue gear puts you ahead of the vast majority of people, and you will likely get a few of the epic pieces in rhe process. BGs are garbage for honor except during the bonus event(if you are winning). BGs are where you go to play around, not get geared.
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That's how gear is supposed to work.
It has always been the case that late in an expansion, you all but have to resign yourself to having to go into PvP battles and get wrecked for a while, while you build up honor for the blue PvP gear.