PvP gear tends to have too much versatility to be really good for PvE, and it's also missing set bonuses, which are huge. You can easily have a 20% DPS difference or more between two equal ilvl players, if one is in PvP gear.
You can get a PvP item for every single slot without versatility. Comparing it to tier is invalid because the idea is that you don't have PvE gear for that slot and you've put an equivalent PvP piece there to fill the hole, not that you're for some reason wearing PvP instead of the tier pieces you apparently have. It's identical to getting a non-tier PvE chestpiece and wearing it until you get your tier chest. If you wanted to bring up the one other hole that PvP items have in PvE it's trinkets, as the procs and uses are mostly defensive based.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
I know, and that's my point. Trinkets and tier bonuses are huge. For a prot paladin, for example, 4pc tier and class trinket represents about an 80-100% DPS increase over a paladin without those two.
You're right that the odd PvP piece here and there is fine, but if i was making a raid i wouldn't accept people in full PvP gear.
There also tends to be sockets for gems in pve gear and sometimes tertiary stats. Those also represent a little more power in pve. The trinkets and tier set bonuses are huge though. Some classes change to entirely different playstyles within a spec or to a different spec altogether once they get them. The pvp set bonuses dont generally do a whole lot.
There also tends to be sockets for gems in pve gear and sometimes tertiary stats. Those also represent a little more power in pve. The trinkets and tier set bonuses are huge though. Some classes change to entirely different playstyles within a spec or to a different spec altogether once they get them. The pvp set bonuses dont generally do a whole lot.
PvP gear can proc sockets and tertiary stats as well if you're getting them from chests instead of buying them with honor/conquest. They're also random so someone could have a full set of PvE gear without a single one having a gem slot, tertiary stat, or being warforged.
My point was that being prejudiced against PvP gear is stupid with how PvP gear works in WoD. When you bring up Tier gear and Legendary rings (something you can get without stepping in a Normal raid btw) that has nothing to do with PvP gear, it has to do with the overall gearing of the person and would still apply regardless if they had PvE or PvP gear in those slots. There is basically no difference between someone using this item instead of this item or this item instead of this one or even this item instead of this one such that someone inspecting you and kicking you from a raid for having the first set of items instead of the second set is stupid.
@Morkath the part that I think you're not understanding is that it's not a bad thing if someone ilvl 740 can kill someone ilvl 710 in 5 seconds.
That's how gear is supposed to work.
It has always been the case that late in an expansion, you all but have to resign yourself to having to go into PvP battles and get wrecked for a while, while you build up honor for the blue PvP gear.
It is a terrible thing. If they are not geared enough to survive long enough to actually participate in the mode, then they need to ilvl block joining. But regardless I checked, it bumps your ilvl to 730 artificially in there, so it is even worse at only a 10 lvl difference.
Also, battlegrounds are not an analog for mythic raiding, it is LFR at best. It is a matchmade experience with no requirements for joining.
Ranked battlegrounds or Arena would be mythic, where you can't go in and expect to do well without maxed out gear.
Ashran's isn't any better, as there are always people in 740 in there as well trolling people.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
It doesn't bump you to 730.
PvE gear that is above 725 gets scaled down to 725, but gear that is below does not get scaled up. The only scaling that takes place is that gear below 700 will be scaled to 700.
You might be confusing it with the blue PvP honor gear, which is 700 outside PvP but 730 inside PvP.
Yeah we haven't had a united PA guild on here for a while. The SE++ guys have a guild, but its pretty much gone into hibernation while waiting for Legion and not many people are actively playing over there.
Good lord, i finally got around to leveling my horde druid and did some bgs. I cant even fathom how there is basically a 2% win rate. Ioc and av are off, and it just doesnt matter. Nobody that has gear pvps on horde. There were even people who had worse gear than the stuff i got through leveling. It could just be because of the weekly thing but that was a terrible experience.
I did manage to get my trinkets and weapon and a few green pieces out of boxes. I could definitely notice improvements when i got new pieces.
Also arthas as a server seems like a barren ghostland compared to sargeras and even how arthas was in mop.
The horde garrison also seems kind of terrible compared to alliance.
Good lord, i finally got around to leveling my horde druid and did some bgs. I cant even fathom how there is basically a 2% win rate. Ioc and av are off, and it just doesnt matter. Nobody that has gear pvps on horde. There were even people who had worse gear than the stuff i got through leveling. It could just be because of the weekly thing but that was a terrible experience.
I did manage to get my trinkets and weapon and a few green pieces out of boxes. I could definitely notice improvements when i got new pieces.
Also arthas as a server seems like a barren ghostland compared to sargeras and even how arthas was in mop.
The horde garrison also seems kind of terrible compared to alliance.
My mains are all on Staghelm, and it's neat how the rare spawns that drop Medallion of the Legion can last for two or three minutes before someone shows up to kill them. I've soloed Terrorist, and I've made it about 50% on Doomroller and Deathtalon before people started showing up.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Good lord, i finally got around to leveling my horde druid and did some bgs. I cant even fathom how there is basically a 2% win rate. Ioc and av are off, and it just doesnt matter. Nobody that has gear pvps on horde. There were even people who had worse gear than the stuff i got through leveling. It could just be because of the weekly thing but that was a terrible experience.
I did manage to get my trinkets and weapon and a few green pieces out of boxes. I could definitely notice improvements when i got new pieces.
Also arthas as a server seems like a barren ghostland compared to sargeras and even how arthas was in mop.
The horde garrison also seems kind of terrible compared to alliance.
I just got my first horde to close to max level. Its not so much that the horde garrison is terrible it actually feels a lot more impressive in many ways than the alliance one but it is spread out a ton more than the alliance one. It has at least double the footprint of the alliance one so its a lot more running around to get anywhere in it.
It is definitely bigger, and the shipyard is quite a bit farther away. It just feels harsher on the eyes because of the white color palette, and it is kind of laid out weird. The only thing I like about it is the main hall, you dont have to weave through the little room on the left to get to the follower table.
The horde garrison stops being annoying once you get flying. Horde is my main, so I am biased, but I prefer it to the alliance one, since everything is a more direct path to get to.
I do dislike the fact it is in a frozen tundra though, I agree.
Since I have flying its size does not bother me but I can see a lot of people leveling horde before flight could have found it annoying. I don't mind the tundra its a pretty nice looking horde base overall.
The horde garrison gets a lot better when you get the shipyard table in the main hall.
The shipyard is annoyingly far away, and the instance transfer that happens between the garrison and the shipyard has a tendency to do nasty things (or at least it used to, I haven't needed to run down there regularly in months). It was a bit of a dick punch when I found out the shipyard compass-hearthstone thing basically teleported you to the garrison exit rather than to the actual shipyard itself (and that they didn't give it to you until you basically had the achievement that put the table in the main hall).
As for the other buildings, you're usually going to have a few that you don't actually visit often, and if you drag those to the farther away plots you can save yourself quite a bit of running. The non-movable ones like the mines and the herb garden are all fairly convenient. The only non movable thing I would like closer is the warspear portal.
I feel like people wouldnt complain about lack of flying as much if things werent laid out in a way that necessites flying for it to be easily accessed Like the portal could easily be in one of those side rooms of the main hall for horde. Why does it need to be OUTSIDE of the walls of the garrison? That doesnt even make sense tactically.
Luckily i picked up flying on alliance before even leveling horde. So leveling with flying was actually pretty great. Add to that i was playing a druid and it was like lvl 68 all over again in tbc. Draenor treasures addon + flight form was easymode. I also had done the intro quest and had been picking up resources for a long time which let me buy the exp pots and upgrade my garrison quickly.
I even sort of convinced my wife to give horde another go but she has been pretty resistant. Hopefully stuff balances out a bit in legion as pvp racials are being looked at.
I feel like people wouldnt complain about lack of flying as much if things werent laid out in a way that necessites flying for it to be easily accessed Like the portal could easily be in one of those side rooms of the main hall for horde. Why does it need to be OUTSIDE of the walls of the garrison? That doesnt even make sense tactically.
Luckily i picked up flying on alliance before even leveling horde. So leveling with flying was actually pretty great. Add to that i was playing a druid and it was like lvl 68 all over again in tbc. Draenor treasures addon + flight form was easymode. I also had done the intro quest and had been picking up resources for a long time which let me buy the exp pots and upgrade my garrison quickly.
I even sort of convinced my wife to give horde another go but she has been pretty resistant. Hopefully stuff balances out a bit in legion as pvp racials are being looked at.
It's outside of the walls at the top of a tower that dismounts you when you run up the stairs to get to the top. Flight smooths over so many little bits of tedium. I wish the devs weren't so reluctant to embrace it.
At the trading post you can buy a sack of gold for 50ish resources that have about 15g in them. So for every 10k resources you can get 3k gold. Probably not as good as getting the treasure hunters or goblin/dwarven crews going, but after all the gold stuff gets changed to resources in legion it should be really easy to get resources.
Doesnt everyone else fish while waiting on queues instead of jumping in circles? Ive caught like 100 fish before while waiting on an RBG group to get together. Fishing does tend to have a very low return for time investment though. Some of the mounts/pets might be worth it for some people, but if you arent on a high pop raiding server the food from the fish probably wont sell for very much.
That Marks bonus, making Aimed Shot insta-cast? That's going to do some wonderfully foul things.
PMAvers on
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0
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Last Old God art revealed, incidentally:
Y'Shaarj
This was the guy whose heart we blew up in the last Pandaria raid. He was said to have 'seven terrible heads' so presumably this is one and he's got a half-dozen others, hydra/orochi/ogru-jahad style.
the seven heads are the various Sha we fight in various places around pandaria; the first pandaren emperor (who was probably a titan, I guess?) killed him originally and sealed his heart away, and the Sha are his manifestations seeping up through the ground (a la saronite in wrath.)
that said, have we seen them all at this point? Has it ever been confirmed that there are only the four?
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
the seven heads are the various Sha we fight in various places around pandaria; the first pandaren emperor (who was probably a titan, I guess?) killed him originally and sealed his heart away, and the Sha are his manifestations seeping up through the ground (a la saronite in wrath.)
that said, have we seen them all at this point? Has it ever been confirmed that there are only the four?
Depending on the source, three, four, or five Old Gods lie imprisoned. Some of these sources seem to imply that these numbers were the limit to the number of Old Gods. The roleplaying game seems to imply that there were more than five Old Gods, including those imprisoned or killed.
the seven heads are the various Sha we fight in various places around pandaria; the first pandaren emperor (who was probably a titan, I guess?) killed him originally and sealed his heart away, and the Sha are his manifestations seeping up through the ground (a la saronite in wrath.)
that said, have we seen them all at this point? Has it ever been confirmed that there are only the four?
Was he a titan? I thought we actually met him at the top of kunlai and he was a normal panda.
0
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
the seven heads are the various Sha we fight in various places around pandaria; the first pandaren emperor (who was probably a titan, I guess?) killed him originally and sealed his heart away, and the Sha are his manifestations seeping up through the ground (a la saronite in wrath.)
that said, have we seen them all at this point? Has it ever been confirmed that there are only the four?
The new Warcraft Chronicle lore book lays down the definitive series of events:
There were four Old Gods who invaded Azeroth in its ancient past (there's a pretty cool map here of what the world looked like when they conquered it - the red regions are the domains of the Elemental Lords who lived there before the Old Gods arrived and enslaved them).
Then the Titans came and created armies of stone warriors to fight them (guys like Archaedes, Thorim, and various other big humanoid stone giants are the survivors of this conflict). Y'Shaarj was too powerful for the stone armies to destroy, so the Titans killed him personally by ripping him out of the planet and tearing him apart. Then they found out that the Old Gods had physically infested Azeroth so completely that killing them would actually damage the planet - the death of Y'Shaarj was what tore open the surface and created the Well of Eternity (which would eventually become the Maelstrom) in the first place. The Titans locked up the other Old Gods rather than risk killing them and entombed Y'Shaarj's last remains (his heart) in what would be Pandaria. Y'Shaarj's power polluted the land and manifested as the Sha creatures - the pandaren emperor was actually the one who sealed away all the Sha 10,000 years ago, and the players accidentally break the seals during MoP.
So yeah, there were only ever four Old Gods on Azeroth officially. However, there are many others out in the universe, infesting other worlds or traveling through space searching for worlds to infest. Chronicle also touches on where they come from and why.
Posts
You can get a PvP item for every single slot without versatility. Comparing it to tier is invalid because the idea is that you don't have PvE gear for that slot and you've put an equivalent PvP piece there to fill the hole, not that you're for some reason wearing PvP instead of the tier pieces you apparently have. It's identical to getting a non-tier PvE chestpiece and wearing it until you get your tier chest. If you wanted to bring up the one other hole that PvP items have in PvE it's trinkets, as the procs and uses are mostly defensive based.
You're right that the odd PvP piece here and there is fine, but if i was making a raid i wouldn't accept people in full PvP gear.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
PvP gear can proc sockets and tertiary stats as well if you're getting them from chests instead of buying them with honor/conquest. They're also random so someone could have a full set of PvE gear without a single one having a gem slot, tertiary stat, or being warforged.
My point was that being prejudiced against PvP gear is stupid with how PvP gear works in WoD. When you bring up Tier gear and Legendary rings (something you can get without stepping in a Normal raid btw) that has nothing to do with PvP gear, it has to do with the overall gearing of the person and would still apply regardless if they had PvE or PvP gear in those slots. There is basically no difference between someone using this item instead of this item or this item instead of this one or even this item instead of this one such that someone inspecting you and kicking you from a raid for having the first set of items instead of the second set is stupid.
It is a terrible thing. If they are not geared enough to survive long enough to actually participate in the mode, then they need to ilvl block joining. But regardless I checked, it bumps your ilvl to 730 artificially in there, so it is even worse at only a 10 lvl difference.
Also, battlegrounds are not an analog for mythic raiding, it is LFR at best. It is a matchmade experience with no requirements for joining.
Ranked battlegrounds or Arena would be mythic, where you can't go in and expect to do well without maxed out gear.
Ashran's isn't any better, as there are always people in 740 in there as well trolling people.
PvE gear that is above 725 gets scaled down to 725, but gear that is below does not get scaled up. The only scaling that takes place is that gear below 700 will be scaled to 700.
You might be confusing it with the blue PvP honor gear, which is 700 outside PvP but 730 inside PvP.
I stand corrected if that's the case, I haven't done much this season and maybe it changed this season.
I did manage to get my trinkets and weapon and a few green pieces out of boxes. I could definitely notice improvements when i got new pieces.
Also arthas as a server seems like a barren ghostland compared to sargeras and even how arthas was in mop.
The horde garrison also seems kind of terrible compared to alliance.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
My mains are all on Staghelm, and it's neat how the rare spawns that drop Medallion of the Legion can last for two or three minutes before someone shows up to kill them. I've soloed Terrorist, and I've made it about 50% on Doomroller and Deathtalon before people started showing up.
I just got my first horde to close to max level. Its not so much that the horde garrison is terrible it actually feels a lot more impressive in many ways than the alliance one but it is spread out a ton more than the alliance one. It has at least double the footprint of the alliance one so its a lot more running around to get anywhere in it.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I do dislike the fact it is in a frozen tundra though, I agree.
The shipyard is annoyingly far away, and the instance transfer that happens between the garrison and the shipyard has a tendency to do nasty things (or at least it used to, I haven't needed to run down there regularly in months). It was a bit of a dick punch when I found out the shipyard compass-hearthstone thing basically teleported you to the garrison exit rather than to the actual shipyard itself (and that they didn't give it to you until you basically had the achievement that put the table in the main hall).
As for the other buildings, you're usually going to have a few that you don't actually visit often, and if you drag those to the farther away plots you can save yourself quite a bit of running. The non-movable ones like the mines and the herb garden are all fairly convenient. The only non movable thing I would like closer is the warspear portal.
Luckily i picked up flying on alliance before even leveling horde. So leveling with flying was actually pretty great. Add to that i was playing a druid and it was like lvl 68 all over again in tbc. Draenor treasures addon + flight form was easymode. I also had done the intro quest and had been picking up resources for a long time which let me buy the exp pots and upgrade my garrison quickly.
I even sort of convinced my wife to give horde another go but she has been pretty resistant. Hopefully stuff balances out a bit in legion as pvp racials are being looked at.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
It's outside of the walls at the top of a tower that dismounts you when you run up the stairs to get to the top. Flight smooths over so many little bits of tedium. I wish the devs weren't so reluctant to embrace it.
Also, I'm going down to the SY regularly to play the ship-crew-lottery for my submarines. What the fuck else am I supposed to do with resources?
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I can still get 400g/stack for fat sleeper, even on proudmoore's saturated market
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
That Marks bonus, making Aimed Shot insta-cast? That's going to do some wonderfully foul things.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Y'Shaarj
This was the guy whose heart we blew up in the last Pandaria raid. He was said to have 'seven terrible heads' so presumably this is one and he's got a half-dozen others, hydra/orochi/ogru-jahad style.
that said, have we seen them all at this point? Has it ever been confirmed that there are only the four?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Warcraft wiki says
Was he a titan? I thought we actually met him at the top of kunlai and he was a normal panda.
The new Warcraft Chronicle lore book lays down the definitive series of events:
There were four Old Gods who invaded Azeroth in its ancient past (there's a pretty cool map here of what the world looked like when they conquered it - the red regions are the domains of the Elemental Lords who lived there before the Old Gods arrived and enslaved them).
Then the Titans came and created armies of stone warriors to fight them (guys like Archaedes, Thorim, and various other big humanoid stone giants are the survivors of this conflict). Y'Shaarj was too powerful for the stone armies to destroy, so the Titans killed him personally by ripping him out of the planet and tearing him apart. Then they found out that the Old Gods had physically infested Azeroth so completely that killing them would actually damage the planet - the death of Y'Shaarj was what tore open the surface and created the Well of Eternity (which would eventually become the Maelstrom) in the first place. The Titans locked up the other Old Gods rather than risk killing them and entombed Y'Shaarj's last remains (his heart) in what would be Pandaria. Y'Shaarj's power polluted the land and manifested as the Sha creatures - the pandaren emperor was actually the one who sealed away all the Sha 10,000 years ago, and the players accidentally break the seals during MoP.
So yeah, there were only ever four Old Gods on Azeroth officially. However, there are many others out in the universe, infesting other worlds or traveling through space searching for worlds to infest. Chronicle also touches on where they come from and why.