[WOW] Luke 8:30: "What is thy name ? And he said, Legion."

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Heirlooms, probably can't use level boosts, no DKs or Demon Hunters, RAF bonuses

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I for one am not fond of the idea of a vanilla server or pristine as one hand I enjoy the social aspect of the game on the other I hate the drama and elitism that went on

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Also any items or buffs that give exp bonuses like the Monk daily buff, holiday buffs, and exp potions.

  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    They could also kill rested XP on a pristine server.

    I don't think I'd play on a pristine server, though. I would play on a vanilla server for a little while, despite preferring the game in its current state (for the most part).

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I think by 'pristine' they mean every efficiency-enhancing mechanism that was implemented post-release. Rest xp would stay, but most everything else would go. They'd probably get rid of flying too if they think they could manage it.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    They also tweaked the xp curves several times to make old content go faster. It used to be that you would not outlevel a zone just by questing in it, now the quests turn green or gray well before (for old zones).

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  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    I'll be completely honest, as much as I fall into the 'never say never' camp with Blizzard anymore given how often they've gone back and done things they said would not do, a pure vanilla server is one of those things I thought for sure would never come to pass despite how often it's been requested (since the first Blizzcon if I recall correctly). Good on them if they can deliver it (and obviously it's possible, it's just a question of logistics vs. cost). I certainly won't touch it, but if other people find that appealing, more power to them.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    They also tweaked the xp curves several times to make old content go faster. It used to be that you would not outlevel a zone just by questing in it, now the quests turn green or gray well before (for old zones).

    I was just about to post this. Also, it's good to hear they are "in contact" with Nostalrius. The question is whether the "contact" went further than the C&D order and subsequent legal saber rattling.


    Also, in regards to Green Fire, I still regret not doing the Rokh'delar quests on my Hunter before they were trivial. As it turned out, you needed to know how to multi-trap and kite like a Goddamn Pro in BC, and that quest chain would have helped me a ton.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    I remember trying to do Rhok a few times and getting fucked by people "helping" me. I'd report them, try again later, get screwed again and eventually gave up and moved on. IIRC at the time I had the AV xbow that was better than anything else soooo yeah, wasn't super motivated.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    There were so many people that I helped do their rhok and anathema quests in vanilla. It basically consisted of giving them motw on my druid or standing there with my imp out after trading healthstones and clearing mobs around the quest area. My account was like a unicorn in vanilla because druids and locks were a very small part of the population and I dont remember anyone else on my server with both.

    I dont think a pristine server would be that great. So it takes longer to level to run into the same max level problems. Turning off crz would be one of the only things I like. Emerald Dream is a good server for all kinds of random stuff because its connected to like 2 other rp servers and thats it. Turning off group finder is an interesting thought that would force people to probably join big guilds to do stuff, which isnt bad. But that is completely reliant on enough people wanting to play on the server. There would also have to be a pvp and pve version of the server which would split up the amount of people that would play on a pristine server. The pvp server would be a blood bath in some of the low level zones with both factions like ashenvale. Which could be really fun, or frustrating to others. It could also give rise to some faction rivalry which is sorely missing on most servers. There are a lot of ifs about the concept, but if it was popular it could be fun to at least go with the first wave for a bit.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I remember those quests. I wish they'd given mages a high-level class quest.

    I was also pissed they didn't include any legendary caster items.

    Then they finally introduced Atiesh, but locked it behind content so difficult and time consuming that it was soul crushing.

    Seriously, that shit was ridiculous.

    RT800 on
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  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

    I feel like that's at odds with Project 1999.

    Pristine realms sound nice. But I don't think it was just the way leveling and the social features were implemented in Vanilla that made it alluring. I rolled up my recent warrior doing nothing but questing in Cataclysm without heirlooms or the dungeon finder and I was generally a level or two higher then the zone I was in at the end of it.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

    I feel like that's at odds with Project 1999.

    Pristine realms sound nice. But I don't think it was just the way leveling and the social features were implemented in Vanilla that made it alluring. I rolled up my recent warrior doing nothing but questing in Cataclysm without heirlooms or the dungeon finder and I was generally a level or two higher then the zone I was in at the end of it.

    That was due to the xp changes that were mentioned earlier. They've had a habit of decreasing the amount of xp it takes to level by 25-30% or so once the content isn't brand new, anymore.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    And quite frankly, I think an awful lot of people would end up disappointed if they just brought back a vanilla server (assuming they manage to solve the incredibly contentious issue of exactly what point of vanilla to replicate). I remember when people brought the original EverQuest back on private servers, and it didn't take people very long at all to realize how dogshit it was compared to MMO gameplay now.

  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    I got to admit I chuckled at the... unfortunate typo of calling it a 'pirate' server.

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  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    SteevL wrote: »
    They could also kill rested XP on a pristine server.

    I don't think I'd play on a pristine server, though. I would play on a vanilla server for a little while, despite preferring the game in its current state (for the most part).

    Huh, I didn't elaborate in this post at all. That's what posting in a rush in the morning before I've had my caffeine will do.

    Basically, I don't see the idea of a "pristine" server as being appealing to the majority of people who want the vanilla experience. I imagine a huge part of the appeal is the old talent system. And the pre-Cataclysm world, when Southshore was an Alliance town and not a steaming slimeheap. When you had to run on foot to the Scarlet Monastery (Horde had it a little easier) because you weren't level 40 yet, or if you were, you had to spend time grinding on mobs in order to get enough money for a mount.

    Let's not forget that quest for alliance in Felwood that involved escorting that tree dude from the north end to the south end of the zone. I was on a PVP server at the time, and the escort path followed the main road all the way down. I failed it quite a few times.

    I personally look back fondly on these experiences, and am fine with keeping them just as memories. But stuff like that is exactly what made vanilla what it was. If Blizzard would be able to find a way to make it work, that'd be cool. I'd play it for a few days and then be done with it. Others would play it for a lot longer.
    Arthil wrote: »
    I got to admit I chuckled at the... unfortunate typo of calling it a 'pirate' server.

    I read it so quickly that I thought it was exactly what he meant. I guess it's more of a Freudian slip than a typo!

    SteevL on
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  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Oh right, I forgot about another hilarious vanilla experience I had: levelling up all my weapon skills as a warrior. I wanted to make sure I had all my weapon skills levelled up, so I spent a lot of time in the Deeprun Tram on the Ironforge side killing rats with whichever weapon I was working on. Anyone passing through either way were treated to the sight of a level 60 human warrior surrounded by 50+ rat corpses, and in the process of creating more.

    Some people ignored it, others joined in. One gnome passing by stopped, looked left and right, and then just said "lol."

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    Oh right, I forgot about another hilarious vanilla experience I had: levelling up all my weapon skills as a warrior. I wanted to make sure I had all my weapon skills levelled up, so I spent a lot of time in the Deeprun Tram on the Ironforge side killing rats with whichever weapon I was working on. Anyone passing through either way were treated to the sight of a level 60 human warrior surrounded by 50+ rat corpses, and in the process of creating more.

    Some people ignored it, others joined in. One gnome passing by stopped, looked left and right, and then just said "lol."

    Nobody told you about the unkillable mobs? I wanna say Blasted Lands, they were by the Dark Portal. To kill them you had to kill the crystal they were 'linked' to, otherwise their hp would just sit at 1 and they'd be unresponsive. If you were level 60, you could just find the right spot (where no pathing mobs would come by) and afk swinging at one of those.

    Nobody
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    Oh right, I forgot about another hilarious vanilla experience I had: levelling up all my weapon skills as a warrior. I wanted to make sure I had all my weapon skills levelled up, so I spent a lot of time in the Deeprun Tram on the Ironforge side killing rats with whichever weapon I was working on. Anyone passing through either way were treated to the sight of a level 60 human warrior surrounded by 50+ rat corpses, and in the process of creating more.

    Some people ignored it, others joined in. One gnome passing by stopped, looked left and right, and then just said "lol."

    Nobody told you about the unkillable mobs? I wanna say Blasted Lands, they were by the Dark Portal. To kill them you had to kill the crystal they were 'linked' to, otherwise their hp would just sit at 1 and they'd be unresponsive. If you were level 60, you could just find the right spot (where no pathing mobs would come by) and afk swinging at one of those.

    I used to sit there with seal of light up on my paladin with a cheap grey or white weapon just in case I got my one drop in TBC.

    I was so glad when that went away.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    a big thing that people would hate (imo) is decreasing the speed you move about the world; in vanilla you didn't even get a mount until 40, and lots of people couldn't afford them even then.

    I do think that having to manually run across zones contributed to the feeling of 'adventuring,' but I dunno if people would be in for it today

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    a big thing that people would hate (imo) is decreasing the speed you move about the world; in vanilla you didn't even get a mount until 40, and lots of people couldn't afford them even then.

    I do think that having to manually run across zones contributed to the feeling of 'adventuring,' but I dunno if people would be in for it today

    More than that, seeing things they've never seen before, or not quite knowing how or where to complete a certain quest or task added a lot to the 'adventuring' aspect. Something that would be completely lost today.

    It'd be a nice novelty thing that would wear off for most very quickly. There's a reason why this argument seems to come up more often when the game is in between expansions and there's not as much to do in the game.

  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    Oh right, I forgot about another hilarious vanilla experience I had: levelling up all my weapon skills as a warrior. I wanted to make sure I had all my weapon skills levelled up, so I spent a lot of time in the Deeprun Tram on the Ironforge side killing rats with whichever weapon I was working on. Anyone passing through either way were treated to the sight of a level 60 human warrior surrounded by 50+ rat corpses, and in the process of creating more.

    Some people ignored it, others joined in. One gnome passing by stopped, looked left and right, and then just said "lol."

    Nobody told you about the unkillable mobs? I wanna say Blasted Lands, they were by the Dark Portal. To kill them you had to kill the crystal they were 'linked' to, otherwise their hp would just sit at 1 and they'd be unresponsive. If you were level 60, you could just find the right spot (where no pathing mobs would come by) and afk swinging at one of those.

    Yeah, I remember those. I'm pretty sure I tried them a few times, but I was also on a PVP server and by this time I hated PVP. In Deeprun Tram, I didn't have to worry about getting ganked.
    Javen wrote: »
    a big thing that people would hate (imo) is decreasing the speed you move about the world; in vanilla you didn't even get a mount until 40, and lots of people couldn't afford them even then.

    I do think that having to manually run across zones contributed to the feeling of 'adventuring,' but I dunno if people would be in for it today

    More than that, seeing things they've never seen before, or not quite knowing how or where to complete a certain quest or task added a lot to the 'adventuring' aspect. Something that would be completely lost today.

    It'd be a nice novelty thing that would wear off for most very quickly. There's a reason why this argument seems to come up more often when the game is in between expansions and there's not as much to do in the game.

    There is definitely something to be said for the experience of adventure and discovery. I loved the whole Linken questline when I first did it because it took me to areas I had not yet been to. In a few cases, I'm pretty sure I had to wait until I levelled up a bit before continuing that questline. And I did most of it, if not all, on foot.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    It was total bullshit but I still look back fondly on the druid seal form quest chain.

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    BobbleKyanilisBrainleech
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Trecking halfway across the world for the warlock class quests is a particularly fond and bittersweet memory for my early wow days. I remember being really impressed with the game when that quest took me across the bridge between arathi and the wetlands for the first time.

    Bobble
  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    It's strange, I remember vanilla and BC very fondly, and yet when I think of the details, half of the memories terrify me. As mentioned, weapon leveling was a pain. And then there was my experience as a Ret paladin during that period. I mean we just got treated like crap. I'm unsure of the balancing really was that bad, if too many players just perceived Ret pallies as bad.

    But I do miss certain things; the scope of the adventure to max level, the expectations that came with doing dungeons meant you could go slower, the diversity of 5 mans. Really, half the things I actually miss can't be recreated due to their nature, or are simply dependent on more content being put out. It's very easy to criticize Blizzard on that point, WoD had much less content in the end.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I sure as shit don't miss pausing for 20-30 seconds every two mobs to recover my mana while leveling my mage.

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  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I sure as shit don't miss pausing for 20-30 seconds every two mobs to recover my mana while leveling my mage.

    Or making food or water for your other 4 party members in an instance!

  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I sure as shit don't miss pausing for 20-30 seconds every two mobs to recover my mana while leveling my mage.

    Oh yeah, that sucked. Honestly I think much of the issues can be solved, as I said, with more content. The reasons I miss vanilla revolve around the scope of leveling; but that was a result of slow down mechanics like the need to stop between each fight or level weapons - which are not good ways to do that. I think there is a way to recapture that sense of scope without tedious mechanics.

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  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    a big thing that people would hate (imo) is decreasing the speed you move about the world; in vanilla you didn't even get a mount until 40, and lots of people couldn't afford them even then.

    I do think that having to manually run across zones contributed to the feeling of 'adventuring,' but I dunno if people would be in for it today

    More than that, seeing things they've never seen before, or not quite knowing how or where to complete a certain quest or task added a lot to the 'adventuring' aspect. Something that would be completely lost today.

    It'd be a nice novelty thing that would wear off for most very quickly. There's a reason why this argument seems to come up more often when the game is in between expansions and there's not as much to do in the game.

    Well a lot of the not knowing where stuff was, was because people didn't read the quest. The vast majority of quests would give descriptions about where it is, like east of X near the big cave. You certainly got to know the world better when you had to actually look for things instead of just going wherever the blue is on the map. Having to find things is much more interesting than just going on autopilot. The quests that literally told you to go find something in another zone across the world are the ones people remember, like the seal form quest, the warlock mount quest, warrior cyclone axe, etc. It was because there was a struggle to finish them and a sense of achievement when it was finished. Unlike say the kill harpies in northwest barrens. You might remember doing it, but it was just another forgettable go kill stuff quest.

    Mages still suck to quest/level with...

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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. i'm the bat guy (bluh)Registered User regular
    And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

    I feel like that's at odds with Project 1999.

    I've heard that a few times but unless Project 1999 was set up in the same place as Nost with employees in similar locations I don't think it's necessarily a fair comparison. International laws can get really messy and complex on these sorts of things.

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    Kyanilis
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    I sure as shit don't miss pausing for 20-30 seconds every two mobs to recover my mana while leveling my mage.

    Or making food or water for your other 4 party members in an instance!

    Or the rest of the raid.

    (Why no, I never had to log on my Mage and fill another player's inventory with conjured water to pass out at the beginning of raid night because our group didn't have anyone playing a Mage as a main, why do you ask?)

    Bobble
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Ohhh shit I'd almost forgotten that.

    Standing there waiting for the raid to gather just conjuring and conjuring and conjuring 2 water at a time until I had like 20 stacks to hand out.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    probably my fondest memory of early vanilla was doing the warlock quest when you get your succubus; at that time it involved going to ashenvale, and because my warlock was human and had thus far only adventured through elwynn, westfall and redridge, ashenvale seemed like it might as well have been on another planet.

    I remember I took the wrong boat (once I figured out where the boats even were, that is) and wound up in theramore, then figured I might as well just sneak across the barrens. I hadn't played a horde character at that point, so I'd never seen the barrens! I didn't know how to get to ashenvale exactly because the map was grayed out, but eventually I found it.

    it really felt like I'd gone on an adventure. I don't know if you can really replicate that though, because 1) the data tools and addons are so much more advanced now and 2) I don't think that many people really want the experience of 'figure it out yourself, it'll take a while.' Removing flying in new expansions is like a tiny microcosm of that, and people lost their minds.

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    While there are some things which tickle the nostalgia button when it comes to Vanilla...

    There's plenty which makes it a dumpster-fire level of an idea.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    It's strange, I remember vanilla and BC very fondly, and yet when I think of the details, half of the memories terrify me. As mentioned, weapon leveling was a pain. And then there was my experience as a Ret paladin during that period. I mean we just got treated like crap. I'm unsure of the balancing really was that bad, if too many players just perceived Ret pallies as bad.

    But I do miss certain things; the scope of the adventure to max level, the expectations that came with doing dungeons meant you could go slower, the diversity of 5 mans. Really, half the things I actually miss can't be recreated due to their nature, or are simply dependent on more content being put out. It's very easy to criticize Blizzard on that point, WoD had much less content in the end.

    The idea is that you can't have the scope and size and satisfying achievements of vanilla without having the frustrations and grinds that went along with it, because it's the frustrations and grinds that make the destination so much sweeter.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I remember going into BRD at level 50 or so with 4 others of similar level, determined to do every what in there (including the chains we had to return back to SW for a bunch of times). Our healer was either disc or shadow, don't remember now. Our tank was a prot paladin.

    It took 11 hours (this i remember very well).

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  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    That sounds incredibly rough becaue prot paladins were good for like 2 spells then were oom. However, depending on which patch, reckoning could do insane damage when combined with seal of command. BRD is just an awful instance though. It's layout is so sprawling that it is easy to miss things, and lots of the bosses were gated by doing quests outside of the dungeon. I really liked having solo stuff come to an end by summoning extra bosses in a dungeon, or letting you open a locked door to another wing. But BRD could have easily been chopped up into like 5 separate dungeons.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    It was January or February 2005 iirc.

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  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    I don't think I entered BRD for the first time until about 5 months into release. I didn't see everything there either until a few expansions later, when I could solo it. My groups always broke up before that room where you have to light torches with the respawning mobs of dwarves. That whole dungeon was pretty rough. I'm glad it still exists in its original form, though. And it's nice of them to break it up into more digestible chunks in dungeon finder.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    BRD taught me that there is actually a time limit the game gives you to complete lfd dungeons. When lfd was first added they had not cut BRD into pieces, I was leveling my first healing character (the character I main now). At that level range it was the only dungeon available. I ended up running that dungeon with a random warrior I found through dungeon finder. We really hit it off, and we made our way wing by wing through BRD really successfully (especially since neither of us had been there before). Other people came and went, getting tired of dying of old age. We ended up doing parts of it short handed because new people zoning in wouldn't know how to get back to us (there were no mole machines, and unless you have keys the shortcut gates are locked), so they would leave party once they realized they couldn't get back. Eventually we got to the end, but we were getting warnings that the instance was expiring by the time we killed the king.

    I'm still friends with that warrior tank, even though he plays alliance now.

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