Well one thing that changes a lot of what you listed;
There is a thing where if you do any form of knockback where the opponent will hit a wall before the knockback is finished, everything else is interrupted with a brief wall hit animation. Almost all CC in the game that consists of ANY form of displacement (some things knock back slightly even without it being listed, like I think the KFM 4 that dazes) does not actually CC till the end of the knockback. The wall hitting animation interrupts the rest of the skills effects, and thus any CC.
So if you impact or grip 2 them so the knockback will hit a wall, you lose the stun/knockdown. It is what makes the knockdown from grip 2 (which is our ONLY reliable knockdown, which SUCKS) fairly useless. It is a good form of CC and can be used if they escape one of your dazes for a bit of pressure, but is fairly unreliable for comboing because they will be out of range of most of your stuff. If you were going to hit them into a wall with it, you are better off using 4.
This also brings to mind another thing that bothers me. There is a skill you can use during grip on tab, it says knocks down but cannot be used in arena. The description doesn't really have anything pointing it out, but I assume its because since it is an aoe knockdown, you need a target to hit with your current gripped target to use it? I never bothered to check. If that is the case, it might be just another thing to add to the way FM royally fucks summoner. Which I guess is nice, while we have to work our asses off in any other matchup, at least we have easy mode vs what everyone considers the most annoying class to pvp by a wide margin.
Aerial grip does have a separate CD from normal grip. It looks like you edited it somwhat in there but you still have 3 (1) skills in a row? It should only be two, one for the freeze applied from 3 and 1 for the freeze you worked up during the string. I also wouldn't use 2 in a combo because they are very likely to have escape up, and I am pretty sure it breaks freeze so you cant tech chase (a tech chase is too tight to apply rb and 1 in the tiny frame window you get I am pretty sure). Though I guess if it did work, you could prevent any form of escaping the knockdown from your launches.
Wait, really? Hmm, that might actually explain some of what I saw last night with people not being quite as CC'd as I thought they should be. You're right, if you're close enough at least you can Grip -> 1/4.
Do you feel FM royally fucks summoner? I still haven't had success in that matchup, it goes too quickly for me to learn anything. I've tried sleeping the pet, it just woke up. I've tried killing the pet and sometimes it works and sometimes it goes resist and whoops that means it's still alive and I don't have anything up.
Yeah, let me fix it. Which escape are you referring to, Tab or backroll? I've heard and sort of seen that backroll you do have a window to nail them again.
It should be:
3 RLX RL1 RL1 RL2 RL4 1/4 RL1 RLTab
-> Z RL4 1 RLC FFF/RLV
-> RLV RL1 RLC
I feel like you kind of have to use 2 in a combo instead of holding it or else you just can't do much. Well, maybe in 1s. I'd consider holding it in 3s because I like to use it to double daze on enemy assists and attempt to murder them both.
The terminology I learned is that escape = the F that you can use to get out of daze and knockdown, and Tab refers to the skill that gets out of all levels of CC (assuming skill points). So escape is their F which has a 9 second CD. Tech chasing is the fact that the escape roll has invulnerability for a certain amount of time, but there is a VERY small gap between the end of the invuln and when they can input actions again. If you land another CC (usually a knock down or daze since they are now 100% vulnerable to it) in that small window its guaranteed.
Summoners you just get to fight in a mind game and not some super tight input challenge where 1 wrong slip of the finger and you die to some noobs 2 button 20% damage combo. They have a ranged immune, so do you (but yours is better). They have a counter, but nothing super dangerous while invis and it doesn't displace them so its super easy to just spam them out of it. Otherwise they have no real damage prevention skill (just like FM, which is why other classes just need to get out of chill and they can have a field day on us) so you can spam. I think they also can spec some bubble thing but its only 5 attacks. Usually faster to spam through it (if you see it, try to drop a fury skill on them if one is up). I think you can actually use the V ice block on their cat to keep him down for 8 seconds, and the ice flower buff really isn't necessary for that fight as there is not too much to wait out. Finally the only thing you need to worry about using Tab on is the cat supress, so that is super simple. So basically, just get through their petals (the ranged immune) buff, get a burn on them, and spam 2 and rmb lmb. Drop meteors and grip them. Do whatever. Don't bother to pick and choose your chance to damage them because its the only matchup where you don't have to (well and mirror matches). It just doesn't take as much super complex input play to fight them so its easy to me.
at least moonwater pvp dailies are hot money, you get like 50s a day at level 40
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Welp, I found out a way to not only make FM solo play damage much easier, but I think its even higher than a basic burn build.
Also graduated to beating Junghado on my second try today. Completely demolished him too, and I think in like 2.5 minutes? Not bad for only having true profane (and only a 4 atp diamond!)
Sounds like a frost build that pops embers for explosive damage.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited February 2016
Kind of, but not entirely (though thinking about it, if I gave up a few defensive oriented skill points I could add some extra burst using some cold options)
Basically mostly fire, but using the impact line that does 9.0 damage to frozen targets. Which is 100% uptime (even though bosses gain temp resistance to being rooted by freeze, they still receive the debuff so you can gain bonus damage on frozen targets just like you can with burn). The addition though is that those free fire orbs allow you to fit in dragonblaze. Since that applies 5 embers, when the enemy has 5 embers you go LMB-F-LMB to get 2 detonates. In addition it reduces the CD of Meteor Shower, which is HUGE because that is massive burst in the build. You use short Fuse first for burn, then Meteor which will apply 2 ember per hit, and the ticks of that and lmb and rmb and 1 can all add embers per crit. Basically you likely detonate embers every tick. Massive burst damage. It is mindless cause everything is targetted, you don't need to aim 1, and outside of good use of Dragonblaze you can spam the same 3 things over and over (though good use of the dragonblaze every time it is up is a significant gain on overall damage).
Though thinking about it, you could take some points and put them into Ice Rain (I had the daze version of blaze for utility, but in most cases this won't do much anyway) and Cold Snap and use that for a burst phase when the meteors are down. I am not sure how significant that damage is so I would have to check. It would be nowhere near the level of the meteors (though I guess you could do both at the same time?).
I could see it being strong in 4 mans with 1 FM (well, it actually works fine with two but only if both spec that build - you can both detonate each others embers and stack them twice as fast). Then alternate burst phases.
I really wish I could go down the line for frost palm that gives cold orbs, so I could Dual dragons more easily. But then it would be much more difficult to maintain frozen (you would have to use dragonfrost as often as possible and find one other source of chill every 5 seconds). I guess you could switch to frost soul and put points into frost fury to get up 3 ice orbs every dual dragons CD for a minor damage loss, but the overall damage gain from dual dragons is not much with the 18 second CD. It would add some burst to the burst phase though.
That sounds very similar to what I have been running. When ice and fire soul came out I immediately got to work trying out various frost builds, but none of it really clicked. I feel like it just needs extra hongmoon levels and the hongmoon skills to really make it worthwhile.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
If it really is soon, gonna use this generous currency exchange to get a character slot.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Do you feel FM royally fucks summoner? I still haven't had success in that matchup, it goes too quickly for me to learn anything. I've tried sleeping the pet, it just woke up. I've tried killing the pet and sometimes it works and sometimes it goes resist and whoops that means it's still alive and I don't have anything up.
The terminology I learned is that escape = the F that you can use to get out of daze and knockdown, and Tab refers to the skill that gets out of all levels of CC (assuming skill points). So escape is their F which has a 9 second CD. Tech chasing is the fact that the escape roll has invulnerability for a certain amount of time, but there is a VERY small gap between the end of the invuln and when they can input actions again. If you land another CC (usually a knock down or daze since they are now 100% vulnerable to it) in that small window its guaranteed.
Summoners you just get to fight in a mind game and not some super tight input challenge where 1 wrong slip of the finger and you die to some noobs 2 button 20% damage combo. They have a ranged immune, so do you (but yours is better). They have a counter, but nothing super dangerous while invis and it doesn't displace them so its super easy to just spam them out of it. Otherwise they have no real damage prevention skill (just like FM, which is why other classes just need to get out of chill and they can have a field day on us) so you can spam. I think they also can spec some bubble thing but its only 5 attacks. Usually faster to spam through it (if you see it, try to drop a fury skill on them if one is up). I think you can actually use the V ice block on their cat to keep him down for 8 seconds, and the ice flower buff really isn't necessary for that fight as there is not too much to wait out. Finally the only thing you need to worry about using Tab on is the cat supress, so that is super simple. So basically, just get through their petals (the ranged immune) buff, get a burn on them, and spam 2 and rmb lmb. Drop meteors and grip them. Do whatever. Don't bother to pick and choose your chance to damage them because its the only matchup where you don't have to (well and mirror matches). It just doesn't take as much super complex input play to fight them so its easy to me.
I just keep not recognizing their moves quick enough and by the time I feel like I have an opening, I'm already dead. I keep getting snared right off the bat and not wanting to backdash it and just taking a ton of damage, then get grabbed, Tab that, immediately get stunned by the cat again, backdash that, then finally I can start fighting back. Might need to get Divine Veil up faster or something. You go hard on the summoner and try to ignore the cat?
Kind of, but not entirely (though thinking about it, if I gave up a few defensive oriented skill points I could add some extra burst using some cold options)
Basically mostly fire, but using the impact line that does 9.0 damage to frozen targets. Which is 100% uptime (even though bosses gain temp resistance to being rooted by freeze, they still receive the debuff so you can gain bonus damage on frozen targets just like you can with burn). The addition though is that those free fire orbs allow you to fit in dragonblaze. Since that applies 5 embers, when the enemy has 5 embers you go LMB-F-LMB to get 2 detonates. In addition it reduces the CD of Meteor Shower, which is HUGE because that is massive burst in the build. You use short Fuse first for burn, then Meteor which will apply 2 ember per hit, and the ticks of that and lmb and rmb and 1 can all add embers per crit. Basically you likely detonate embers every tick. Massive burst damage. It is mindless cause everything is targetted, you don't need to aim 1, and outside of good use of Dragonblaze you can spam the same 3 things over and over (though good use of the dragonblaze every time it is up is a significant gain on overall damage).
Though thinking about it, you could take some points and put them into Ice Rain (I had the daze version of blaze for utility, but in most cases this won't do much anyway) and Cold Snap and use that for a burst phase when the meteors are down. I am not sure how significant that damage is so I would have to check. It would be nowhere near the level of the meteors (though I guess you could do both at the same time?).
I could see it being strong in 4 mans with 1 FM (well, it actually works fine with two but only if both spec that build - you can both detonate each others embers and stack them twice as fast). Then alternate burst phases.
I really wish I could go down the line for frost palm that gives cold orbs, so I could Dual dragons more easily. But then it would be much more difficult to maintain frozen (you would have to use dragonfrost as often as possible and find one other source of chill every 5 seconds). I guess you could switch to frost soul and put points into frost fury to get up 3 ice orbs every dual dragons CD for a minor damage loss, but the overall damage gain from dual dragons is not much with the 18 second CD. It would add some burst to the burst phase though.
Is this intended for soloplay or what?
I'm personally not really impressed by Dual Dragons right now to think it worth 3 points on an 18 second cooldown skill that has questionable advantage over using the Orbs separately only if the Bleed it generates outdoes Dragonblaze's extra damage on a burning target. Then again, you're not burning targets with this build outside Short Fuse, so there's that.
I dunno, I'm looking at it and I'm just not sure the numbers make sense. Blazing Beam is 10.0 to Burned targets vs Frost Blast's 9.0 to Frozen targets and the build as presented doesn't appear to have a great focus dump equivalent. (If you combine it with Ice Rain+Cold Snap and only do this when Cold Snap's down you might have something there.) Yes, you lose some autodetonation of Embers but that's only 0.3. Comparatively you can go Flame Palm T3F2 and get 0.8 back on Burned targets, T4F3 and get a little more safety/AoE back, or honestly even stop at T3F1 and use the orbs it generates off crits to skip past Fire Fury (which kinda has a bad ratio) to get to Dragonblaze.
I'm just not sure the damage is as high as you think it is. I'd probably swap soul over to Frozen and go Ice Rain+Cold Snap+Frost Fury as the focus and use Force Blast/Snowball/Short Fuse/Meteor Shower as the cheap filler for when Cold Snap is down.
"March 3, 2016
Battle Mushin himself on Floor 8 of Mushin's Tower, wander the maze of the party dungeon Naryu Labyrinth, and conjure the spirits as a Warlock in this Content Update"
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Well, you seem to have a slight misconception on how much damage detonation does, or maybe you think the auto explosion doesn't do it at 5 only (it does). But the mod for detonation is around 5.00. I will be damned if I can figure that out from how they described it (I had it set at 6.00 but that seems to be wrong) but I checked it by eye. My flame palms were doing around 1000-1100 which are 3.20 mod, and the explosion did 1600ish. So that says to me its roughly 5.00.
So you make up the difference of 10.0 beam and the 9.0 impact right there. The dragonblazes give you another full detonate (they apply 5 embers) so that adds some damage. Then the whole purpose of the build is meteor shower, which becomes an absurd burst dump since between that, fuse and the fireballs, you are basically hitting 5 embers every second. It's nuts.
I did some fiddling last night though and learned some things, one unfortunate about the build (but my direct experiences still show the build did better damage than when I ran burn). Something the skills just for some reason felt was fine to leave out but I found on the actual tooltip of ember; auto detonation cannot crit. Well that is odd and also way harder to find out than it should be, but its a thing. A damage loss when fireballs explode, but it still ends up breaking about even.
I also noticed when I tried to add in the ice rain and cold snap as a second smaller burst session when meteors are down, that you cannot spam ice rain while using lmb and rmb. Those will reset the cast speed of it. So that makes its burst not all that much better than a normal rotation. I might still experiment with its use though to see what happens. Since I don't need my 2 for anything else it couldn't hurt.
I ran a ton of numbers out of game, and it all at the very least ends up even on a burn build. I don't wanna make a mega math post about it, but also just my experiences doing Mushin yesterday there was a noticeable difference in killing speed. At the very least, I did not have to worry about errors in maintaining burning due to needing to perform defensive maneuvers. That alone made it worth it.
Ice rain just feels like a 6-24 man boss dps tool you can run without pissing off burn masters. If you have two frosties you can rotate cold snaps and just hold 2 forever, especially once the hongmoon skill for it is out that makes it essentially free during cold snaps.
I would remove the dual dragon points though if you are set up like that since you aren't going to reach 3 frost orbits without the RB right side tree, frost soul, or speccing X for orbits + 3 + the occasional frost fury.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited February 2016
Yeah I already looked into that. The only benefit to Dual Dragons would be an additional burst during meteor, because it is only 9.0 mod over a normal button press (1 most likely) every 18 seconds. If you managed to spam it on CD always, it would only be a 0.5 mod increase to overall dps (or roughly ~300). So I actually got rid of that to spec for ice rain.
I still want to try adding in Ice Rain as a burst. I can't quite make out how fast it casts, if its over 2 times a second its a damage gain. However, I noticed while holding the button it sometimes will "lock up" its cast and stop casting for a second. At first I thought it was a focus issue, but I paid attention to this and it was not. The whole deal with ice rain and cold snap seems somewhat sloppy to begin with.
With regards to the patch, I almost feel the content coming OTHER than Warlock is a little bit too quick. For casuals, we could still be taking in everything that we just got even 2 weeks later. I have a feeling all BSH things will become rather dated come this final dungeon. Sure they still need to be run for upgrade mats and possible costumes, but still.
Oh and there was mention there is another balance patch on the KR version we might get. Pretty extensive changes to BM, KFM, DES, and ASS. I think assassins in particular will enjoy actually getting some changes this time. I didn't look at what they are exactly because I am not versed in enough about most of those classes to be able to tell how much changed. Also, while we are not getting it, that update added a new solo challenge in an infinate tower that has 100 floors and is all 1v1 matches with npcs based on real classes that increase in AI as you go up. You also get to pick 3 special skills from a list of about 20ish as a bonus to help you through it. Sounds VERY badass.
For anyone still into the game, the content we have to look forward to is still awesome and is going to be SO much better than even the stuff we have already seen. One day we will get caught up and hit a drought, but there is a very bright future ahead currently.
I am thinking we might need to start organizing some major group run at night to try and get ourselves into the habit of like... doing something together. Currently we all kind of do whatever whenever because there is a randomness about what everyone wants to get done each night. I think both for fun and for profit (those HM skill books are legit) we should begin getting a regular 4 man dungeon run in at least a few nights a week. What time seems best for people? I usually only get on after 8-9, so something like 10 EST would work for me. What does everyone else think? We could also organize a night to do 3v3 PVP for about an hour or so as the Zen Beans are very beneficial, and the 3 pvp quests you can get done doing those are a small chunk of income.
Kai_San on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited February 2016
Also sorry for the post spam, but for organizations sake this needs a separate post -
"Additional Character Slot
With the addition of a new class to the game, the maximum number of character slots available will increase by one, to a new maximum of eight. We’ll also be providing everyone with an additional character slot unlock to hold their new Warlock—for free."
Good thing I didn't spend my HM coin yet, as I was going to buy one for this reason. Yay. Time to get a few of those boxes and hope for a costume instead.
Edit: Looking over the balance changes it looks like we will be getting, I see numerous significant buffs to KFM damage. Like not side shit either, buffs to 3 (more damage to grabbed or force gripped enemies) and F (more damage peroid, AND bonus damage to targets affected by searing palm) Looks like their PVE damage is getting a huge facelift. Also crazy shit like Iron shoulder getting a new path that reduces the CD of Landslide by 3 seconds and resets its own CD on crit. Landslide's non stun paths getting damage bonuses to F during its aoe effect. It is an awful lot of buffs. Most of them are carefully done to not quite effect PVP, but I am sure there are some ways to make it work there too.
Oh no wait, Smite gets a CD reduction to 12 seconds. Think that miiiiiight be a PVP buff.
I disagree with the end though. That area people powerlevel the last few levels in is in the open world. It was only worth it when it was empty (and never is now). The best way to do level 43 to 45 is do daily quests in E fleet and if you can at 43 harbor, and if that isn't enough (or you are trying to do it in one night) might want to just force out some PVP. Or Faction daily quests. Basically might as well do the things that get you end game shit anyway, because you should avoid basically ALL the blue quests in act 3 cause they kind of suck. Except the dailies in dungeons you need to go to for story anyway, the rewards from those are worth it.
I also added to the guide some grinding on that camp of NPCs around level 6. Cant remember the name, but they respawn fast and every 3 minutes you can channel change for instant spawn. I did that on the KFM I started, was a good mindless boost to 8 in like 30 minutes or so. Maybe blue quests are faster, but I hate questing. I also didn't use a dragon soup, if I was RICH I would have done so there.
An addition to the guide as well - if you have the spare money (or value leveling new characters over upgrading the super expensive gear like me) buy some gems for your alt. Gems have no level req, so you could theoreticaly put a 28 attack power diamond on a level 4 hongmoon weapon. The best ones for leveling are attack power, followed by whatever amethyst, and IMO followed by the one that does extra damage / lifesteal to stunned and knocked down targets. You are going to be doing a lot of power leveling as grinding, and grinding is pure AOE killing. So if you aoe knock down, then spam some other AOE, that is a huge amount of extra damage (especially because you can get around 90 for fairly cheap, I am not sure what the best hexagonal go for if you are rich but it would be significant). Finally if you want your 4th gem, take the one that makes you invuln and gives crit on evade. While it might not happen often, when it does it removes any chance at all from you dying to an AOE pack. When you first enter some of the grind spots 3 levels below the mobs there, this is a big deal. Also early on, this might be the better gem peroid, because the crit bonus will be huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge and doubles as making your amethyst way more effective in keeping you alive.
You probably only need to buy two or three dragon soups to complement what you get from surveys. Mostly for while you are at Wraithbloom meadows and the Dig Sites.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
You will spend a good few hours in each of those areas. I actually did the 33-38 one on my FM, I managed to go from 33 to 36, on 3 soups. If I wanted to finish the other two levels, I would have needed 2 more possibly.
I assume the dig sites take a few hours as well. Basically, you will probably need over 10. They aren't expensive though, selling for 1g each on the TP right now (which is nothing when you can get 8+ in one day).
But if you have the money to blow (like people with 100-200 gold just sitting around) you likely want some extra just to pop for any point where you are killing things worth decent exp anyway.
All depends on AoE grinding efficiency and whether you mix in any low hanging fruit blue quests along with your grinding. You can more than easily cover the soups needed for another new character's entire path to 45 with a day's worth of dailies.
So, I forgot who it was that linked this BM build to me in Discord...
But I was looking at that in-game last night. My BM is only 22, so I was wondering what I should prioritize spending points in as I work towards this build. (I wish the builder site also had a "how to use this build" writeup.)
Don't bother looking at level 45 builds early on. You don't have the points to work with and often times the relevant skills themselves to make it matter. Instead focus on investing deep into two or 3 skills and learn how to use them together, experimenting with different combinations so you learn what the class can be capable of, or just 1 point investments that are nice.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Well, you seem to have a slight misconception on how much damage detonation does, or maybe you think the auto explosion doesn't do it at 5 only (it does). But the mod for detonation is around 5.00. I will be damned if I can figure that out from how they described it (I had it set at 6.00 but that seems to be wrong) but I checked it by eye. My flame palms were doing around 1000-1100 which are 3.20 mod, and the explosion did 1600ish. So that says to me its roughly 5.00.
So you make up the difference of 10.0 beam and the 9.0 impact right there. The dragonblazes give you another full detonate (they apply 5 embers) so that adds some damage. Then the whole purpose of the build is meteor shower, which becomes an absurd burst dump since between that, fuse and the fireballs, you are basically hitting 5 embers every second. It's nuts.
I did some fiddling last night though and learned some things, one unfortunate about the build (but my direct experiences still show the build did better damage than when I ran burn). Something the skills just for some reason felt was fine to leave out but I found on the actual tooltip of ember; auto detonation cannot crit. Well that is odd and also way harder to find out than it should be, but its a thing. A damage loss when fireballs explode, but it still ends up breaking about even.
I also noticed when I tried to add in the ice rain and cold snap as a second smaller burst session when meteors are down, that you cannot spam ice rain while using lmb and rmb. Those will reset the cast speed of it. So that makes its burst not all that much better than a normal rotation. I might still experiment with its use though to see what happens. Since I don't need my 2 for anything else it couldn't hurt.
I ran a ton of numbers out of game, and it all at the very least ends up even on a burn build. I don't wanna make a mega math post about it, but also just my experiences doing Mushin yesterday there was a noticeable difference in killing speed. At the very least, I did not have to worry about errors in maintaining burning due to needing to perform defensive maneuvers. That alone made it worth it.
Hmm. Well, that's higher than is reported, but it's still based around Meteor Shower on a 45 second timer with 5 second uptime. Which, yes goes down on Dragonblazes, but I'm not yet sure it's so much higher to be worth the flat damage increase of Blazing Beam which has roughly 80% uptime. (Also consider the damage on Burn itself, which should always be up in that build.) It seems like it might burst harder for that 5 seconds, which could be worth it on phased fights, though.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
The 9.0 impact is 100% uptime.
It is a difference of 1.0 mod. Made up for by a 5.0 mod every 5 casts. It is a perfect switch really. Then adding in an additional 5.0 mod that can come up as often as every 5 casts as well. That more than makes up for the burn damage (which is pretty pitiful, looks like something around 200 a second). You are also not factoring in the damage loss to reapply burn with impact, which does only something like 5.5 in that build. And with proper rotation management, Meteor Storm should be up every 30 seconds give or take a few, which coincides with fuse perfectly.
I mean if you don't believe the actual act of using the build, I could make a video comparing it for you. I actually did it for a full run of Mushin, and the fight that made it most noticeable was floor 5. Normally I had to go through 3 of the floor buffs and I think usually saw the 4th (but never used it, cause I finish the guy shortly after). Using that build, I never saw the third buff. This is actually a perfect fight for it as well, because the red buff is a huge damage boost for a short time, which goes very nicely with a build using a damage burst for a short time.
The explosion is not higher than reported, but its reported poorly. It states a 0.3 mod per ember, then 75% additional damage per ember. Which... is very unclear. If you just add 0.75 to 0.3 and times by 5 it should be over 5.0 mod but isn't. If you do a 75% bonus x 5 that is 4.75 times the damage of 1.5, which would be even higher but isn't. But it certainly is not 0.3 damage total.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
It is a difference of 1.0 mod. Made up for by a 5.0 mod every 5 casts. It is a perfect switch really. Then adding in an additional 5.0 mod that can come up as often as every 5 casts as well. That more than makes up for the burn damage (which is pretty pitiful, looks like something around 200 a second). You are also not factoring in the damage loss to reapply burn with impact, which does only something like 5.5 in that build. And with proper rotation management, Meteor Storm should be up every 30 seconds give or take a few, which coincides with fuse perfectly.
I mean if you don't believe the actual act of using the build, I could make a video comparing it for you. I actually did it for a full run of Mushin, and the fight that made it most noticeable was floor 5. Normally I had to go through 3 of the floor buffs and I think usually saw the 4th (but never used it, cause I finish the guy shortly after). Using that build, I never saw the third buff. This is actually a perfect fight for it as well, because the red buff is a huge damage boost for a short time, which goes very nicely with a build using a damage burst for a short time.
The explosion is not higher than reported, but its reported poorly. It states a 0.3 mod per ember, then 75% additional damage per ember. Which... is very unclear. If you just add 0.75 to 0.3 and times by 5 it should be over 5.0 mod but isn't. If you do a 75% bonus x 5 that is 4.75 times the damage of 1.5, which would be even higher but isn't. But it certainly is not 0.3 damage total.
Well, Burn build should also get the benefit of Short Fuse and Inferno burns as well, delaying the need to reapply with Impact, dropping that down to 3 times every 30 seconds. And don't discount the extra 0.8 on every Flame Palm since you can use T3F2 instead (or get bounce+minor lifedrain from T4F3).
I don't disbelieve that it can be a good build, I'm just not yet sure it's higher overall damage unless you're in a phased fight.
I really need to dig up some good assassin guides and get some practice in. I've got waay too many lazy/bad habits from leveling.
As for clan activities, heck yes let's get some 4 person dungeons going!
Are there any decent pvp matchup guides out there for forcemasters? I feel like I really just need to know what skills the other classes actually have, so I can identify when they are actually vulnerable. For KFM/BM/Destro it feels like there is no window at the moment, but it has to be there.
Don't bother looking at level 45 builds early on. You don't have the points to work with and often times the relevant skills themselves to make it matter. Instead focus on investing deep into two or 3 skills and learn how to use them together, experimenting with different combinations so you learn what the class can be capable of, or just 1 point investments that are nice.
True, but in this case where I was putting my points in mostly lined up with this build, so I was hoping to get an idea of what to prioritize as I go. That way I also get into the habit of using the skills appropriately.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
So if anyone hasn't looked into Warlock yet and is interested -
Here is the best vid I found giving info + showing how skills look in an organized manner
There are some notable differences in the updated version we will be getting. He goes over most of them, but misses the changes to the block skill (1). The deflect version is changed to a 0.5 sec parry like all the rest of them in the game, and has a 3 second CD instead of 6. It blocks for the base 1.5 second as well.
Basically Warlock is like a modified Summoner really. Less pet use (is summoned, limited duration, can be dismissed. At best it can be up around 32 seconds and have a 39 second cooldown). The aforementioned block that like BM can have 100% uptime if you choose to spec it that way. Little movement skills (just an SS on an 8 second CD). Bursty, but also capable of sustain. Some of the burst is insane though. Also has two of the coolest group buffs in the game.
Also most of their best shit is like aoe by default. Likely will be a VERY easy class to grind up levels with.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
We managed to find 4 people for some 4 man dungeoning last night. We only had 3 when we went into BSH and it went poorly, but with 4 of us and Poharan, I think we had a good time. Poh herself took awhile but we nailed it in the end.
I still am surprised how entertaining the PVE is in the game. I am shocked that it was even possible to hit a wall at the first boss of any dungeon in this game. Gives something to work towards.
Hopefully we can begin doing that a few nights a week. I noticed we basically have 2-4 people on any given night now though. Would more schedules things help that, or have people moved on to other coming games now?
I got surprised by the complete lack of indicators and the higher damage the bosses were throwing around. In the 24 mans I've had 0 issue soloing the bosses and staying full health through frost fury heals but that won't fly in the 4 man unless I can get more damage, pierce, and possible defense.
I was sitting on discord waiting for someone to join me and explain the venom thrasher poison/buff thing in more detail but spent the evening in a channel forever alone.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
We were in the PVP channel, did you not see us We had been doing 3v3 before, never moved to a different channel.
I knew the poison thing but still had issues dealing with it. I think when you turn others spell effects down, it turns down monster effects ANY other players. I have enough trouble performance wise in dungeons as it is, I dunno if I could turn that back up. But I could not see stuff like poison. I had to assume where it was when I destroyed an egg and hope I had the debuff (I saw something with 1 minute as a duration and green, I guess that was it, but I still got hit by things).
I didn't manage to get the buff either until we did the 6 man version later that night as a quick run. Then I did get the buff, which is insane, but he was at like 20% anyway so it didn't last long.
The main issue we had was you mostly need someone who can legit handle aggro on the boss. I have no idea how a destroyer can survive all the basic attack damage in there, so likely we needed to have really organized CC. Which was hard when you are still learning the rest of the fight.
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Craft 'em or Marketplace.
They're obscenely expensive either way.
The terminology I learned is that escape = the F that you can use to get out of daze and knockdown, and Tab refers to the skill that gets out of all levels of CC (assuming skill points). So escape is their F which has a 9 second CD. Tech chasing is the fact that the escape roll has invulnerability for a certain amount of time, but there is a VERY small gap between the end of the invuln and when they can input actions again. If you land another CC (usually a knock down or daze since they are now 100% vulnerable to it) in that small window its guaranteed.
Summoners you just get to fight in a mind game and not some super tight input challenge where 1 wrong slip of the finger and you die to some noobs 2 button 20% damage combo. They have a ranged immune, so do you (but yours is better). They have a counter, but nothing super dangerous while invis and it doesn't displace them so its super easy to just spam them out of it. Otherwise they have no real damage prevention skill (just like FM, which is why other classes just need to get out of chill and they can have a field day on us) so you can spam. I think they also can spec some bubble thing but its only 5 attacks. Usually faster to spam through it (if you see it, try to drop a fury skill on them if one is up). I think you can actually use the V ice block on their cat to keep him down for 8 seconds, and the ice flower buff really isn't necessary for that fight as there is not too much to wait out. Finally the only thing you need to worry about using Tab on is the cat supress, so that is super simple. So basically, just get through their petals (the ranged immune) buff, get a burn on them, and spam 2 and rmb lmb. Drop meteors and grip them. Do whatever. Don't bother to pick and choose your chance to damage them because its the only matchup where you don't have to (well and mirror matches). It just doesn't take as much super complex input play to fight them so its easy to me.
Also graduated to beating Junghado on my second try today. Completely demolished him too, and I think in like 2.5 minutes? Not bad for only having true profane (and only a 4 atp diamond!)
I am convinced it is higher dps than he accepted burn build, but it wouldn't play nice with other fm. Which is why it seems best for mushin.
https://bnstree.com/FM?build=450100025541256213943110634263312393241011
Basically mostly fire, but using the impact line that does 9.0 damage to frozen targets. Which is 100% uptime (even though bosses gain temp resistance to being rooted by freeze, they still receive the debuff so you can gain bonus damage on frozen targets just like you can with burn). The addition though is that those free fire orbs allow you to fit in dragonblaze. Since that applies 5 embers, when the enemy has 5 embers you go LMB-F-LMB to get 2 detonates. In addition it reduces the CD of Meteor Shower, which is HUGE because that is massive burst in the build. You use short Fuse first for burn, then Meteor which will apply 2 ember per hit, and the ticks of that and lmb and rmb and 1 can all add embers per crit. Basically you likely detonate embers every tick. Massive burst damage. It is mindless cause everything is targetted, you don't need to aim 1, and outside of good use of Dragonblaze you can spam the same 3 things over and over (though good use of the dragonblaze every time it is up is a significant gain on overall damage).
Though thinking about it, you could take some points and put them into Ice Rain (I had the daze version of blaze for utility, but in most cases this won't do much anyway) and Cold Snap and use that for a burst phase when the meteors are down. I am not sure how significant that damage is so I would have to check. It would be nowhere near the level of the meteors (though I guess you could do both at the same time?).
I could see it being strong in 4 mans with 1 FM (well, it actually works fine with two but only if both spec that build - you can both detonate each others embers and stack them twice as fast). Then alternate burst phases.
I really wish I could go down the line for frost palm that gives cold orbs, so I could Dual dragons more easily. But then it would be much more difficult to maintain frozen (you would have to use dragonfrost as often as possible and find one other source of chill every 5 seconds). I guess you could switch to frost soul and put points into frost fury to get up 3 ice orbs every dual dragons CD for a minor damage loss, but the overall damage gain from dual dragons is not much with the 18 second CD. It would add some burst to the burst phase though.
ARGH. What a tease!
I'm dead serious."
Is this intended for soloplay or what?
I'm personally not really impressed by Dual Dragons right now to think it worth 3 points on an 18 second cooldown skill that has questionable advantage over using the Orbs separately only if the Bleed it generates outdoes Dragonblaze's extra damage on a burning target. Then again, you're not burning targets with this build outside Short Fuse, so there's that.
I dunno, I'm looking at it and I'm just not sure the numbers make sense. Blazing Beam is 10.0 to Burned targets vs Frost Blast's 9.0 to Frozen targets and the build as presented doesn't appear to have a great focus dump equivalent. (If you combine it with Ice Rain+Cold Snap and only do this when Cold Snap's down you might have something there.) Yes, you lose some autodetonation of Embers but that's only 0.3. Comparatively you can go Flame Palm T3F2 and get 0.8 back on Burned targets, T4F3 and get a little more safety/AoE back, or honestly even stop at T3F1 and use the orbs it generates off crits to skip past Fire Fury (which kinda has a bad ratio) to get to Dragonblaze.
I'm just not sure the damage is as high as you think it is. I'd probably swap soul over to Frozen and go Ice Rain+Cold Snap+Frost Fury as the focus and use Force Blast/Snowball/Short Fuse/Meteor Shower as the cheap filler for when Cold Snap is down.
Battle Mushin himself on Floor 8 of Mushin's Tower, wander the maze of the party dungeon Naryu Labyrinth, and conjure the spirits as a Warlock in this Content Update"
So you make up the difference of 10.0 beam and the 9.0 impact right there. The dragonblazes give you another full detonate (they apply 5 embers) so that adds some damage. Then the whole purpose of the build is meteor shower, which becomes an absurd burst dump since between that, fuse and the fireballs, you are basically hitting 5 embers every second. It's nuts.
I did some fiddling last night though and learned some things, one unfortunate about the build (but my direct experiences still show the build did better damage than when I ran burn). Something the skills just for some reason felt was fine to leave out but I found on the actual tooltip of ember; auto detonation cannot crit. Well that is odd and also way harder to find out than it should be, but its a thing. A damage loss when fireballs explode, but it still ends up breaking about even.
I also noticed when I tried to add in the ice rain and cold snap as a second smaller burst session when meteors are down, that you cannot spam ice rain while using lmb and rmb. Those will reset the cast speed of it. So that makes its burst not all that much better than a normal rotation. I might still experiment with its use though to see what happens. Since I don't need my 2 for anything else it couldn't hurt.
I ran a ton of numbers out of game, and it all at the very least ends up even on a burn build. I don't wanna make a mega math post about it, but also just my experiences doing Mushin yesterday there was a noticeable difference in killing speed. At the very least, I did not have to worry about errors in maintaining burning due to needing to perform defensive maneuvers. That alone made it worth it.
I would remove the dual dragon points though if you are set up like that since you aren't going to reach 3 frost orbits without the RB right side tree, frost soul, or speccing X for orbits + 3 + the occasional frost fury.
I still want to try adding in Ice Rain as a burst. I can't quite make out how fast it casts, if its over 2 times a second its a damage gain. However, I noticed while holding the button it sometimes will "lock up" its cast and stop casting for a second. At first I thought it was a focus issue, but I paid attention to this and it was not. The whole deal with ice rain and cold snap seems somewhat sloppy to begin with.
With regards to the patch, I almost feel the content coming OTHER than Warlock is a little bit too quick. For casuals, we could still be taking in everything that we just got even 2 weeks later. I have a feeling all BSH things will become rather dated come this final dungeon. Sure they still need to be run for upgrade mats and possible costumes, but still.
Oh and there was mention there is another balance patch on the KR version we might get. Pretty extensive changes to BM, KFM, DES, and ASS. I think assassins in particular will enjoy actually getting some changes this time. I didn't look at what they are exactly because I am not versed in enough about most of those classes to be able to tell how much changed. Also, while we are not getting it, that update added a new solo challenge in an infinate tower that has 100 floors and is all 1v1 matches with npcs based on real classes that increase in AI as you go up. You also get to pick 3 special skills from a list of about 20ish as a bonus to help you through it. Sounds VERY badass.
For anyone still into the game, the content we have to look forward to is still awesome and is going to be SO much better than even the stuff we have already seen. One day we will get caught up and hit a drought, but there is a very bright future ahead currently.
I am thinking we might need to start organizing some major group run at night to try and get ourselves into the habit of like... doing something together. Currently we all kind of do whatever whenever because there is a randomness about what everyone wants to get done each night. I think both for fun and for profit (those HM skill books are legit) we should begin getting a regular 4 man dungeon run in at least a few nights a week. What time seems best for people? I usually only get on after 8-9, so something like 10 EST would work for me. What does everyone else think? We could also organize a night to do 3v3 PVP for about an hour or so as the Zen Beans are very beneficial, and the 3 pvp quests you can get done doing those are a small chunk of income.
"Additional Character Slot
With the addition of a new class to the game, the maximum number of character slots available will increase by one, to a new maximum of eight. We’ll also be providing everyone with an additional character slot unlock to hold their new Warlock—for free."
Good thing I didn't spend my HM coin yet, as I was going to buy one for this reason. Yay. Time to get a few of those boxes and hope for a costume instead.
Edit: Looking over the balance changes it looks like we will be getting, I see numerous significant buffs to KFM damage. Like not side shit either, buffs to 3 (more damage to grabbed or force gripped enemies) and F (more damage peroid, AND bonus damage to targets affected by searing palm) Looks like their PVE damage is getting a huge facelift. Also crazy shit like Iron shoulder getting a new path that reduces the CD of Landslide by 3 seconds and resets its own CD on crit. Landslide's non stun paths getting damage bonuses to F during its aoe effect. It is an awful lot of buffs. Most of them are carefully done to not quite effect PVP, but I am sure there are some ways to make it work there too.
Oh no wait, Smite gets a CD reduction to 12 seconds. Think that miiiiiight be a PVP buff.
Also, we need to get the clan slots up or something for the inevitable altitis outbreak. Well, assuming we can get people imto cerulean.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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Got you http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/topic/149028-leveling-guide-for-those-who-care-not-for-story/
I disagree with the end though. That area people powerlevel the last few levels in is in the open world. It was only worth it when it was empty (and never is now). The best way to do level 43 to 45 is do daily quests in E fleet and if you can at 43 harbor, and if that isn't enough (or you are trying to do it in one night) might want to just force out some PVP. Or Faction daily quests. Basically might as well do the things that get you end game shit anyway, because you should avoid basically ALL the blue quests in act 3 cause they kind of suck. Except the dailies in dungeons you need to go to for story anyway, the rewards from those are worth it.
I also added to the guide some grinding on that camp of NPCs around level 6. Cant remember the name, but they respawn fast and every 3 minutes you can channel change for instant spawn. I did that on the KFM I started, was a good mindless boost to 8 in like 30 minutes or so. Maybe blue quests are faster, but I hate questing. I also didn't use a dragon soup, if I was RICH I would have done so there.
An addition to the guide as well - if you have the spare money (or value leveling new characters over upgrading the super expensive gear like me) buy some gems for your alt. Gems have no level req, so you could theoreticaly put a 28 attack power diamond on a level 4 hongmoon weapon. The best ones for leveling are attack power, followed by whatever amethyst, and IMO followed by the one that does extra damage / lifesteal to stunned and knocked down targets. You are going to be doing a lot of power leveling as grinding, and grinding is pure AOE killing. So if you aoe knock down, then spam some other AOE, that is a huge amount of extra damage (especially because you can get around 90 for fairly cheap, I am not sure what the best hexagonal go for if you are rich but it would be significant). Finally if you want your 4th gem, take the one that makes you invuln and gives crit on evade. While it might not happen often, when it does it removes any chance at all from you dying to an AOE pack. When you first enter some of the grind spots 3 levels below the mobs there, this is a big deal. Also early on, this might be the better gem peroid, because the crit bonus will be huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge and doubles as making your amethyst way more effective in keeping you alive.
I assume the dig sites take a few hours as well. Basically, you will probably need over 10. They aren't expensive though, selling for 1g each on the TP right now (which is nothing when you can get 8+ in one day).
But if you have the money to blow (like people with 100-200 gold just sitting around) you likely want some extra just to pop for any point where you are killing things worth decent exp anyway.
But I was looking at that in-game last night. My BM is only 22, so I was wondering what I should prioritize spending points in as I work towards this build. (I wish the builder site also had a "how to use this build" writeup.)
Hmm. Well, that's higher than is reported, but it's still based around Meteor Shower on a 45 second timer with 5 second uptime. Which, yes goes down on Dragonblazes, but I'm not yet sure it's so much higher to be worth the flat damage increase of Blazing Beam which has roughly 80% uptime. (Also consider the damage on Burn itself, which should always be up in that build.) It seems like it might burst harder for that 5 seconds, which could be worth it on phased fights, though.
It is a difference of 1.0 mod. Made up for by a 5.0 mod every 5 casts. It is a perfect switch really. Then adding in an additional 5.0 mod that can come up as often as every 5 casts as well. That more than makes up for the burn damage (which is pretty pitiful, looks like something around 200 a second). You are also not factoring in the damage loss to reapply burn with impact, which does only something like 5.5 in that build. And with proper rotation management, Meteor Storm should be up every 30 seconds give or take a few, which coincides with fuse perfectly.
I mean if you don't believe the actual act of using the build, I could make a video comparing it for you. I actually did it for a full run of Mushin, and the fight that made it most noticeable was floor 5. Normally I had to go through 3 of the floor buffs and I think usually saw the 4th (but never used it, cause I finish the guy shortly after). Using that build, I never saw the third buff. This is actually a perfect fight for it as well, because the red buff is a huge damage boost for a short time, which goes very nicely with a build using a damage burst for a short time.
The explosion is not higher than reported, but its reported poorly. It states a 0.3 mod per ember, then 75% additional damage per ember. Which... is very unclear. If you just add 0.75 to 0.3 and times by 5 it should be over 5.0 mod but isn't. If you do a 75% bonus x 5 that is 4.75 times the damage of 1.5, which would be even higher but isn't. But it certainly is not 0.3 damage total.
I don't disbelieve that it can be a good build, I'm just not yet sure it's higher overall damage unless you're in a phased fight.
As for clan activities, heck yes let's get some 4 person dungeons going!
True, but in this case where I was putting my points in mostly lined up with this build, so I was hoping to get an idea of what to prioritize as I go. That way I also get into the habit of using the skills appropriately.
Here is the best vid I found giving info + showing how skills look in an organized manner
There are some notable differences in the updated version we will be getting. He goes over most of them, but misses the changes to the block skill (1). The deflect version is changed to a 0.5 sec parry like all the rest of them in the game, and has a 3 second CD instead of 6. It blocks for the base 1.5 second as well.
Basically Warlock is like a modified Summoner really. Less pet use (is summoned, limited duration, can be dismissed. At best it can be up around 32 seconds and have a 39 second cooldown). The aforementioned block that like BM can have 100% uptime if you choose to spec it that way. Little movement skills (just an SS on an 8 second CD). Bursty, but also capable of sustain. Some of the burst is insane though. Also has two of the coolest group buffs in the game.
Also most of their best shit is like aoe by default. Likely will be a VERY easy class to grind up levels with.
stream.bladeandsoul.com
I still am surprised how entertaining the PVE is in the game. I am shocked that it was even possible to hit a wall at the first boss of any dungeon in this game. Gives something to work towards.
Hopefully we can begin doing that a few nights a week. I noticed we basically have 2-4 people on any given night now though. Would more schedules things help that, or have people moved on to other coming games now?
I was sitting on discord waiting for someone to join me and explain the venom thrasher poison/buff thing in more detail but spent the evening in a channel forever alone.
I knew the poison thing but still had issues dealing with it. I think when you turn others spell effects down, it turns down monster effects ANY other players. I have enough trouble performance wise in dungeons as it is, I dunno if I could turn that back up. But I could not see stuff like poison. I had to assume where it was when I destroyed an egg and hope I had the debuff (I saw something with 1 minute as a duration and green, I guess that was it, but I still got hit by things).
I didn't manage to get the buff either until we did the 6 man version later that night as a quick run. Then I did get the buff, which is insane, but he was at like 20% anyway so it didn't last long.
The main issue we had was you mostly need someone who can legit handle aggro on the boss. I have no idea how a destroyer can survive all the basic attack damage in there, so likely we needed to have really organized CC. Which was hard when you are still learning the rest of the fight.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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