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[Dark Souls] III | 三 | Drei | Tres | Trois
Fawst
The road to awe.Registered User regular
The road to awe.Registered User regular
Welcome to the Dark Souls* thread!
* ...and Demon's Souls and Dark Souls... and now Dark Souls 3!
IAQ (Infrequently Asked Questions):
What is Dark Souls?
Dark Souls is a third-person action RPG*.
* Really Pretty Getup (simulator)
So it's kind of like (insert game here)?
Probably not. Most third-person action RPG's tend to be pretty fast with the combat. The thing about Dark Souls is that you need to mean what you do and do what you mean to do. I've heard Monster Hunter is similar, but I've never really played any of those. In this case, if you take a swing or cast a spell, you're committed. Using a big two-handed weapon and you timed it wrong? Yeah, you're gonna get punished.
Punished? That seems harsh.
It is and it isn't. It's more fair than bullshit, but there's plenty of BS moments to go around. Or at least, they'll feel that way until you "git gud."
There are plenty of other games I could be playing that wouldn't be punishing.
Sure are. And not a single one of them will fill you with the same sense of accomplishment that these games will.
That's a bold statement.
I stand by it. I cannot think of a single game where I have ever felt as pumped/relieved/excited to get through something as I have with these games.
OK, I'll give it a shot. What's the setting like?
Dark fantasy. Pretty grim. These are worlds on the brink. Whatever your goal may be, it's pretty likely that you're saving the world by destroying it. Maybe not overtly, but...
Er, spoilers?
No, not really. There is a narrative, but it's not given to you outright. There is a lot of reading between the lines and paying attention in order to put everything together. Some things are open to interpretation. Others are blatant. As for the final goal? Depends on the game and your perspective.
Well that doesn't sound all that interesting. | That sounds awesome!
You're wrong. | You're right! Really, the game lets you use your imagination in a lot of ways. While some things are very clearly laid out, others are not. You can infer so much from simple things such as where you obtain an item and its surroundings, or you can just plow through and not realize that X character died here.
Wait, huh?
Time is ... weird in these games. It's not a guarantee that you are interacting with someone in the "here and now." Rather, you may be interacting with them here and now, but that's not to say they're not already/soon will be dead in another location. At the same time. Yeah...
OK, so it's a punishing, obscure, dark fantasy third-person RPG. What can I do?
A lot. You can be a beefy tank plowing through enemy damage and laughing at how little it affects you. You can be a glass cannon mage, one-shotting the toughest of enemies while praying a stiff wind doesn't cut you down. You can be a sneaky ranged fighter, using gear to enhance your abilities. Or you can say "screw all that" and just punch your way to victory. At level 1. Because you're a masochist.
I take it there are a lot of classes to choose from?
Nope. There are starting classes, sure, but all they do is give you a template to work from. Pretty much any class can become anything along the way. All you're limited by are your stat points and your gear. You assign points to your stats and in turn your stats dictate what gear you can use (effectively).
I hear you die a lot?
Constantly. And while you'll lose progress of a sort by dying, you'll gain knowledge. And knowledge, unlike many other games, truly is power here. So you've rushed into a room and found yourself full of arrows and died? Well now you know not to rush into that room. Now you know that you can probably sneak inside and take out the archer at the back before they even know you're there. You found a strong weapon not that far from the main hub of the game? Now you know that on your next character (you'll probably make more than one) you can rush that spot and focus on getting the stat points you need right away to use it.
So dying isn't that big of a deal?
It can be. When you die, you lose some stuff. Namely the souls you've collected from enemies you've killed and your humanity.
Explain.
When you kill an enemy, you gain souls. These are currency. You spend them on stats to increase them. You also use them to purchase items from any vendors you may find. When you die, you lose all the souls you are carrying. And no, you can't bank them anywhere. On the plus side, you leave behind a bloodstain where you die that contains all the souls you were carrying when you died. If you can reach your bloodstain without dying again, you can pick up all of the souls you lost. Die and they're lost for good.
Is this the punishment you talked about before?
Pretty much. It's going to feel like a punch in the gut the first time you lose "a lot" of souls (it won't be a lot; not your first time through, and not early on). Souls are easy to come by, though. It's more the progress you were making from point A to B that will eventually sting the most.
There's a lot more you're not telling me, isn't there?
Yes, a ton. If you're just kind of interested in the series, play Dark Souls first. If you want to dive in head first and have a PS3, play Demon's Souls. While the two are similar, Demon's Souls is a more raw experience. It's not quite as refined as Dark Souls, but it has plenty of fantastic systems in place. I personally wouldn't start with Dark Souls 2 over either of those two games, but it's better than not playing any of them.
Dark Souls is a third-person action RPG*.
* Really Pretty Getup (simulator)
So it's kind of like (insert game here)?
Probably not. Most third-person action RPG's tend to be pretty fast with the combat. The thing about Dark Souls is that you need to mean what you do and do what you mean to do. I've heard Monster Hunter is similar, but I've never really played any of those. In this case, if you take a swing or cast a spell, you're committed. Using a big two-handed weapon and you timed it wrong? Yeah, you're gonna get punished.
Punished? That seems harsh.
It is and it isn't. It's more fair than bullshit, but there's plenty of BS moments to go around. Or at least, they'll feel that way until you "git gud."
There are plenty of other games I could be playing that wouldn't be punishing.
Sure are. And not a single one of them will fill you with the same sense of accomplishment that these games will.
That's a bold statement.
I stand by it. I cannot think of a single game where I have ever felt as pumped/relieved/excited to get through something as I have with these games.
OK, I'll give it a shot. What's the setting like?
Dark fantasy. Pretty grim. These are worlds on the brink. Whatever your goal may be, it's pretty likely that you're saving the world by destroying it. Maybe not overtly, but...
Er, spoilers?
No, not really. There is a narrative, but it's not given to you outright. There is a lot of reading between the lines and paying attention in order to put everything together. Some things are open to interpretation. Others are blatant. As for the final goal? Depends on the game and your perspective.
Well that doesn't sound all that interesting. | That sounds awesome!
You're wrong. | You're right! Really, the game lets you use your imagination in a lot of ways. While some things are very clearly laid out, others are not. You can infer so much from simple things such as where you obtain an item and its surroundings, or you can just plow through and not realize that X character died here.
Wait, huh?
Time is ... weird in these games. It's not a guarantee that you are interacting with someone in the "here and now." Rather, you may be interacting with them here and now, but that's not to say they're not already/soon will be dead in another location. At the same time. Yeah...
OK, so it's a punishing, obscure, dark fantasy third-person RPG. What can I do?
A lot. You can be a beefy tank plowing through enemy damage and laughing at how little it affects you. You can be a glass cannon mage, one-shotting the toughest of enemies while praying a stiff wind doesn't cut you down. You can be a sneaky ranged fighter, using gear to enhance your abilities. Or you can say "screw all that" and just punch your way to victory. At level 1. Because you're a masochist.
I take it there are a lot of classes to choose from?
Nope. There are starting classes, sure, but all they do is give you a template to work from. Pretty much any class can become anything along the way. All you're limited by are your stat points and your gear. You assign points to your stats and in turn your stats dictate what gear you can use (effectively).
I hear you die a lot?
Constantly. And while you'll lose progress of a sort by dying, you'll gain knowledge. And knowledge, unlike many other games, truly is power here. So you've rushed into a room and found yourself full of arrows and died? Well now you know not to rush into that room. Now you know that you can probably sneak inside and take out the archer at the back before they even know you're there. You found a strong weapon not that far from the main hub of the game? Now you know that on your next character (you'll probably make more than one) you can rush that spot and focus on getting the stat points you need right away to use it.
So dying isn't that big of a deal?
It can be. When you die, you lose some stuff. Namely the souls you've collected from enemies you've killed and your humanity.
Explain.
When you kill an enemy, you gain souls. These are currency. You spend them on stats to increase them. You also use them to purchase items from any vendors you may find. When you die, you lose all the souls you are carrying. And no, you can't bank them anywhere. On the plus side, you leave behind a bloodstain where you die that contains all the souls you were carrying when you died. If you can reach your bloodstain without dying again, you can pick up all of the souls you lost. Die and they're lost for good.
Is this the punishment you talked about before?
Pretty much. It's going to feel like a punch in the gut the first time you lose "a lot" of souls (it won't be a lot; not your first time through, and not early on). Souls are easy to come by, though. It's more the progress you were making from point A to B that will eventually sting the most.
There's a lot more you're not telling me, isn't there?
Yes, a ton. If you're just kind of interested in the series, play Dark Souls first. If you want to dive in head first and have a PS3, play Demon's Souls. While the two are similar, Demon's Souls is a more raw experience. It's not quite as refined as Dark Souls, but it has plenty of fantastic systems in place. I personally wouldn't start with Dark Souls 2 over either of those two games, but it's better than not playing any of them.
Dark Souls III Trailers/Videos:
Announcement Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlGv-IW4g
Gameplay Reveal Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HIxuGi_2TQ
16 Minutes of Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha8eRiP0DmI
Boss Battle Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2ahQU2WN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlGv-IW4gGameplay Reveal Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HIxuGi_2TQ16 Minutes of Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha8eRiP0DmIBoss Battle Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ2ahQU2WN0Fawst on
+5
Posts
From what we've seen in the stress test, it's not called humanity, it's called ember form or some such.
There are consumables you can pick up(think hard humanity) called embers, and if you consume one it puts you into ember form, presumably the game's analogue to being human. I have no idea how it interacts with multiplayer, but max HP was definitely higher in ember form, though weirdly it almost looked like a bonus, not that HP was missing when not in ember form. Also, the character's body has a fiery glow when in ember form.
It looks to me like we're going to get a look at what it's like to exist during a different part of the cycle, or the SotFS ending of DS2 is canon and your character just walked away immune to hollowing. Killing the boss gives the message "heir of fire defeated" or something like that, so I'm thinking maybe those bosses are people who have previously linked the flame.
I really hope the PvP is back to Demon's and Dark Souls 1 greatness. Soul Memory and general unbalance ruined everything but low level PvP in Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne was primarily a PvE game where all PvP in it was highly limited, highly restricted, and mostly an afterthought.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
It's generally agreed upon that Dark Souls 2 has the best pvp of all Soulsborne games, soul memory being the only real mark against it. Dark Souls 1 PvP was honestly trash compared to DS2, it was just lagstab fishing, and any great memories you might have of it are more nostalgia than anything else. Miyazaki has yet to make a game with quality PvP to be fair.
I think the fact that Tanimura-san is working in tandem with Miyazaki on DS3 bodes very well for the game, because I don't know if it's because he's the president of From now and is too busy or what, but Miyazaki doesn't seem able to deliver a great Soulsborne experience without more help now. Bloodborne is a great game, but was so lacking in content compared to the others it's ridiculous, and has some huge gaping holes in it, with covenants, PvP, and the chalice dungeons all being either underdeveloped or just clumsily designed.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
The quantity of builds and variation you could fight in DS2 was great. But the very existence of Soul Memory and how terrible it was meant that you never had even matchmaking.
Demon's Souls had a fantastic PvP setting because the areas were huge and it led to giant cat and mouse games around the environment as -the entire gigantic level was open and not divided off to tiny fog walled areas on invasions-, but DS1/DS2 added stronger mechanics like Poise, Shield-Breaking Shotels, greater weapon variety, and more Magic Choices that made the confrontation part of it better.
Perfect Souls PvP would have Demon's/Bloodborne sized areas, Demon's quantity and ease of invasions, DS2 variety, and DS1 balance.
Only if you play on hacker-infested PC. I learned my lesson and I'm going back to PS4 for DSIII.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
You shut your goose mouth! Demon's Souls PvP back in the day was some of the most honorable combat I ever saw. Bowing before each fight, bowing after a win. No teabagging there. And I was the best Dark Souls PvP'er you could be: I was the Providing Troll! I would jump into PvP matches in the upper Undead Burg and drop items to give to people. Then I'd bow and leave. If people who were woefully ill-equipped to kill me started fighting me, I would casually roll around, leading them back to the items I dropped and point at them. Then I'd leave with a smile (and hopefully leave them with a smile)!
No, but for real, PvP used to be awesome in these games. Then it became "well, if the game can troll me, I can troll other players!"
If they could get the netcode right, Souls PvP can be really fun. There's some really great experiences to be had in DS2 fight clubs, and even the arena when you get even matches, which to be fair is quite uncommon.
I get that some people hate being invaded, but I never minded it. It's fun to have the extra tension of knowing you could be invaded at any time, and it's satisfying to win a fight against another player. It breaks up the monotony of easily predictable AI. I'm primarily a PvE player in Souls games, I typically don't really bother to invade and what not, but I have a good time when I get invaded, win or lose.
I highly dislike the tiiiiiiny PvP arena and fog-wall compartmentalization that the Bonfire checkoints added into DS1/DS2. There were not conductive to PvE or PvP.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
1: soul memory is an objectively terrible thing.
2: region based matchmaking doesn't work when your regions are "Japan" and "not-Japan."
The pvp was amazing when you were matched up against someone of comparable soul level from your corner of the globe, but those two points combined made the average pvp experience miserable.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
*Belltower trolling
*Chameleon trolling in the Belltower
*Good at using that instant cast pushback miracle out on the bridge to knock people off, anyway
Failing that, I was packed to the gills with Hexes, including that one almost insta-death spell.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Hopefully they go back to the Dark Souls 1 system of closing off PVP for cleared zones.
Agreed.
All I want is Jolly Coop Fun without having to worry about getting ganked by someone instantly backstabbing me to death from 12 feet in front of me.
They were trying to solve the problem of people twinking and having fully upgraded weapons and gear while being low SL and invading and smoking newbies. They would've achieved their goal perfectly if they had just made the matchmaking based on souls spent. So souls spent on levelling up, upgrading gear, etc. It would've solved the problem and not introduced all the problems that the soul memory system they actually went with had.
I guess it's just easier to go with soul level and not worry about the twinking issue. Especially now that people can choose to play offline from the menu if they don't want to risk invasion.
Although I still have the opinion of: "you can shackle me with any dumb anti-twink mechanic that you want as long as you remove it for new game+ and beyond"
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
That way the things that matter are tracked, while buying max stacks of arrows/firebombs/what have you won't slowly push you into higher and higher brackets.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Everything is denominated in souls in the end. So you give everything a soul number based on some base value + how many souls spent on it and then when a person leaves a bonfire and enters a PvP enable area you tally those numbers up and give them a score and bam, you've got a rating to matchmake with.
If people are really getting hammered by twinks and don't like it, they can just play offline. It's not that big of a deal.
Advancing to new game+ is a deliberate act of the player, and anyone who makes it that far no longer needs anti-twink systems to protect them.
At that point you can use whatever anti-twink system you want. The pvp diehards who dislike the system and crave soul level matchmaking need only to advance to new game+.
Since the pvpers are usually in it for the long haul, rushing through the story to get to new game+ isn't much of an issue.
The only people that lose out are twinks who want to bully newbs.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
I want to be invaded before NG+. I don't care if twinks invade and kill me a few times, not that it's going to be that common anyway.
I'm fine with just using SL only and dealing with the downsides, because after DS2 I realized they didn't have it in them to come up with anything better. Basically I'm glad they just decided to go back to DS1's matchmaking because at least then there should actually be invasions. I'm glad they're using the password matchmaking from Bloodborne too to help people who like to co-op. That's a good addition.
Saw some videos from the stress test of a guy using the mace and showing situations where the weapon art on the mace is good. I know people were thinking it sounded pointless, but yeah, it's going to be great in PvP. Hit L2 and you get hyper armor for a short time in addition to taking less damage from attacks. So instead of dodging or blocking somebody, you can hit that, eat their hit but without stagger and then unload with a counter attack.
The disciples of blue were almost that, but there were just too many hoops to jump through between the blue sentinels and them coming to your aide.
Edit:
I want soul memory matchmaking, so I'm happy.
But I recognize that twinking is a concern that deserves to be addressed. I just don't want it to be cumbersome for the pvp crowd. That's why I'm in favor of opt-out and opt-in solutions.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Also the fact that blue sentinels couldn't use their arena to fight honor duels without consumables but reds could. So many missed opportunities for that covenant to be really great.
also because most people access blue sentinels at a point in soul memory where there are no invaders, equip it for a while, give up when nothing happens and move on by the time sentinels might actually be useful.
If they'd just put the covenant at a progression point roughly equal to the brotherhood of blood even with all the other flaws the system would have worked way better.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
I'm hoping for Disciples of Blue 2: Electric Boogaloo. Now with more "the cavalry has arrived" and less "I invade people who are minding their own business , but I'm blue and have a questionable sense of moral superiority"
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Seriously. It's such a fantastic way to fix issues with the DS1 system, but they just made it too annoying to be worth it.
Honestly though, if they put any thought into PvP beyond just increasing player limit, I bet people would be more interested in it. The seed of the giant was cool, but enemies are just as easy to dodge as an invader as a player. Some tweak that just doesn't turn it into "Fuck it just get it over with" for a lot of people so that you aren't spending the entire game hollow or offline.
If, and that's a big if, From doesn't fuck it up. Which they will, because simple shit is apparently an insurmountable issue for them.
i.e. tying animations to frame-rate, soul memory, durability bullshit, etc.
No, though I was mostly chillin' in the Lower 'Burg last night. Tonight, I think I'll finish off the Capra Demon, then make a run for the Elite Knight Armor (I can't believe I wandered so close to it once already :P) and Havel's Ring.
I should stop watching Extra Sidequest, but I needed a Souls Fix to get through the workday.
You see, if you chose the 'evil' ending you got a shiiiiiiiiiiitload of souls. But then you were sent to NG+ 1-1 intro stage and couldn't spend them on level ups or any real gear until you completed that first stage again... all while people your NG+ soul level could and would invade you.
It was tense and fun and the higher risk/reward thematically fit with choosing the evil/selfish option.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
They don't expect to be roasted by a great combustion for about 700 damage :twisted:
Edit: In the past some of you have mentioned hackers being a common problem, what are the common signs to look out for? I don't think I've dealt with that, any PvP I've had has generally been quite fair.
Queuing up in the Darkroot Basin area after being summoned, watching my host and an invader duke it out, while standing next to another invader as we both calmly watch the proceedings.. it's all quite civilized.
:edit: just poked at the mugenmonkey DaS character planner, looks like a +15 reinforced club is better than the raw +5 by 28 points of damage.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Getting raw +5 uses the same resources as getting to straight +10 I think.
Also, Straight +15 gets B level STR scaling, while Raw only gets C. If it matters to you.