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[Duelyst] pretty much Hearthstone tactics

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Posts

  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Made it to Rank 6 with a dumb Faie aggro deck (Faice.dek?), and now it seems that every victory results in my opponent spamming friend requests presumably to berate me for playing a dumb deck.

    EDIT: Weeeeeee, made it to Diamond on the last day. Thanks to all those Magmar players flashing in Elucidators to shorten the clock, y'all are collectively my reptilian bros.

    metaghost on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Finished the season at Rank 9 so I got the new epic and legendary cards. I might have been able to push higher but I spent a loooong time yo-yoing in Rank 10--win 2, lose 2, etc. At a certain point I just started throwing random decks from other factions together in order to complete quests.

    I think my spellhai deck is in a good place; the only card I really want that I don't have is Heaven's Eclipse. I could canabalize some cards to make one, but I don't think I need to do that right now. I continue to massage it now and again, but the core is pretty stable and it feels like it stands up to more "competitive" cards pretty well.

    One thing I noticed when I hit rank 10 was that right away I started running into the really scary cards--Reaper of the Nine Moons, Zen'rui, that sort of thing. All the nasty cards I'd been hearing about started showing up. So I need to get better about playing around some of those.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I opened a reaper a few days ago. In one of the first games with it I nabbed a Taygette with it.

    mmmmmmmm.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    Finished the season at Rank 9 so I got the new epic and legendary cards. I might have been able to push higher but I spent a loooong time yo-yoing in Rank 10--win 2, lose 2, etc. At a certain point I just started throwing random decks from other factions together in order to complete quests.

    I think my spellhai deck is in a good place; the only card I really want that I don't have is Heaven's Eclipse. I could canabalize some cards to make one, but I don't think I need to do that right now. I continue to massage it now and again, but the core is pretty stable and it feels like it stands up to more "competitive" cards pretty well.

    One thing I noticed when I hit rank 10 was that right away I started running into the really scary cards--Reaper of the Nine Moons, Zen'rui, that sort of thing. All the nasty cards I'd been hearing about started showing up. So I need to get better about playing around some of those.

    I was definitely vacillating between Rank 10 and 7 for a couple days playing various Songhai decks, as all the variants I have cards for are very draw dependent and generally shit against the very popular Creep Abyssian decks (as well as the less common Heal Lyonar).

    And yeah, Gold and up is definitely "people with actual collections".

    Also! These new cards have basically invalidated my janky Vanar Aggro deck. Blistering Skorn is a rude dude.

  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Yeah, abyssian creep is a pretty rough matchup. Sometimes I get enough damage in the front half of the game to finish them off, but since I'm not running a pure aggro deck I'm usually not fast enough to get the kill.

    I'm looking forward to the shadow creep changes, needless to say.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    spellhai is actually the scariest matchup for creep abyss, tbh

    there's very little straight healing in the deck (3x mystic, I don't like rejuvis because you are sort of burn based), you NEED to get value out of shadow sisters to live, I only feel like I can really stabilize if I get one in a spot where it actually lives a turn. I don't know if people actually run Spiral Technique very much anymore but I lived in fear of it for many games, and a lot of them I felt like the Songhai player easily could have won if they played better.

    Just burn the face out and they have a hard time recovering. Get latern foxes down early before they can dark transf and go to town.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    So is there 'season' monthly? also when is the new expansion suppose to be out? I have just heard august.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    New month = new season

    To my knowledge there has been no mention of a release date for the new set

  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    spellhai is actually the scariest matchup for creep abyss, tbh

    there's very little straight healing in the deck (3x mystic, I don't like rejuvis because you are sort of burn based), you NEED to get value out of shadow sisters to live, I only feel like I can really stabilize if I get one in a spot where it actually lives a turn. I don't know if people actually run Spiral Technique very much anymore but I lived in fear of it for many games, and a lot of them I felt like the Songhai player easily could have won if they played better.

    Just burn the face out and they have a hard time recovering. Get latern foxes down early before they can dark transf and go to town.

    I have a feeling the meta shifted a bit since whatever your referencing, as most Creepers at the moment seem to have tons of ways to gain life, whether via Spectral Blade, Shadow Sister, Rejuvenator, or a Void Pulse.

    And man, apparently playing shitty decks early in season is akin to panhandling, as everyone that beats me feels compelled to toss a nickel into the coffers.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    azith28 on
    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Yup can be buffed. But if it attacks it will get hit back.

  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    Yeah, Pando is fully targetable, so buff it to your heart's content.

    On the topic of buffs, I still find Divine Bond to be inconceivably stupid and wonder if they somehow think that using creatures with big butts is a legitimate deck-building constraint for Lyonar.

    The Escape Goat
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    Yeah, Pando is fully targetable, so buff it to your heart's content.

    On the topic of buffs, I still find Divine Bond to be inconceivably stupid and wonder if they somehow think that using creatures with big butts is a legitimate deck-building constraint for Lyonar.

    what's strange is that it used to cost 3. then it was buffed to only cost 2. i mean you can "play around it" by literally punching every single thing that lyonar plays, but i think it is pushing a little when you need to essentially remove every single minion they play or risk dying to any single one that is in range of your general. i'd expect long term it gets reworked somehow and becomes something like attack = current health, or +atk = current health (that rechecks), or the minion can't attack the turn it is played.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    The trick with Panddo is two of Vet's buffs. Second Wish makes it so it's immune to generals, so it can whack generals for free (as well as being a 2/4), and Cosmic Flesh gives it provoke, which means you can infinitely lock a general down unless they remove it with a spell or a minion (since they can't attack the 1/5 provoke). Or use both to make a 3/7 provoke that can't be attacked and does 3 free damage to the enemy general each turn!

    I have forced a sonhai to onyx bear seal a panddo before.
    metaghost wrote: »
    spellhai is actually the scariest matchup for creep abyss, tbh

    there's very little straight healing in the deck (3x mystic, I don't like rejuvis because you are sort of burn based), you NEED to get value out of shadow sisters to live, I only feel like I can really stabilize if I get one in a spot where it actually lives a turn. I don't know if people actually run Spiral Technique very much anymore but I lived in fear of it for many games, and a lot of them I felt like the Songhai player easily could have won if they played better.

    Just burn the face out and they have a hard time recovering. Get latern foxes down early before they can dark transf and go to town.

    I have a feeling the meta shifted a bit since whatever your referencing, as most Creepers at the moment seem to have tons of ways to gain life, whether via Spectral Blade, Shadow Sister, Rejuvenator, or a Void Pulse.

    And man, apparently playing shitty decks early in season is akin to panhandling, as everyone that beats me feels compelled to toss a nickel into the coffers.

    I'll be honest, I've never really been up on the "meta" of the decks. I've looked around the discord and the subreddit but every time I see one of the duelystdb decklists my eyes just glaze over. And also I don't particularly respect the top players in regards to finding optimal lists? Not to discount their skills, but the playerbase is so much smaller than hearthstone there's much less raw experimenting going on and there's less tense competition at the top level to actually foster the development of highly optimized decks. A top player can use whatever random bullshit in a deck and probably make it work well just because there isn't much competition for them, so it's really hard to tell what's actually optimal.

    I do have a Spectral Blade, now that I think of it, but that's really unreliable healing vs. Spellhai. Rejuvi and Void Pulse are options, but since I'm not running a rite list (my draw is instead 2x L'Kian, 2x Twilight Sorc, 1x Alcuin), running that one mana spell feels really irrelevant. Although it does synergize well with the Prismatic Illusionists I'm using...

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    Yeah, Pando is fully targetable, so buff it to your heart's content.

    On the topic of buffs, I still find Divine Bond to be inconceivably stupid and wonder if they somehow think that using creatures with big butts is a legitimate deck-building constraint for Lyonar.

    what's strange is that it used to cost 3. then it was buffed to only cost 2. i mean you can "play around it" by literally punching every single thing that lyonar plays, but i think it is pushing a little when you need to essentially remove every single minion they play or risk dying to any single one that is in range of your general. i'd expect long term it gets reworked somehow and becomes something like attack = current health, or +atk = current health (that rechecks), or the minion can't attack the turn it is played.

    Inevitably you're going to run into an Ironcliffe Guardian you can't do much about and then you take 8-13 damage to the dome.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    Yeah, Pando is fully targetable, so buff it to your heart's content.

    On the topic of buffs, I still find Divine Bond to be inconceivably stupid and wonder if they somehow think that using creatures with big butts is a legitimate deck-building constraint for Lyonar.

    what's strange is that it used to cost 3. then it was buffed to only cost 2. i mean you can "play around it" by literally punching every single thing that lyonar plays, but i think it is pushing a little when you need to essentially remove every single minion they play or risk dying to any single one that is in range of your general. i'd expect long term it gets reworked somehow and becomes something like attack = current health, or +atk = current health (that rechecks), or the minion can't attack the turn it is played.

    Inevitably you're going to run into an Ironcliffe Guardian you can't do much about and then you take 8-13 damage to the dome.

    Well, when you're playing Songnai, yeah. Other classes actually have hard removal they can draw into :P

    (well, not vanar)

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Hey! We can turn your shit into bears... which you can then buff and use to attack us and there's nothing we can do about it short of blowing burn or turning it into another bear.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    Divine Bond is especially odd to me because they went to such great lengths to balance Third Wish — a legendary buff — and part of that balancing effort involved restricting it to a specific minion type and you still only get +3 damage for 3 mana (whereas previous iterations were effectively variable, whether due to Blast or # of minions controlled).

    Whereas Divine Bond is typically 5+ damage for 2 mana, and can very easily be 8-10 no matter your willingness to slam your face into an offending provoker out of fear. Within the context of Duelyst, it's not even clear that Lyonar is supposed to be the best at buffing its creatures, as that seems to be Vetruvian's schtick (based on them having an actual cycle of cards dedicated to the concept).

  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    metaghost wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    I've only see the pando used once or twice and never really had a chance to experiment. Can you buff the pando and have it attack becoming an invincible cuddly creature of distruction?

    Yeah, Pando is fully targetable, so buff it to your heart's content.

    On the topic of buffs, I still find Divine Bond to be inconceivably stupid and wonder if they somehow think that using creatures with big butts is a legitimate deck-building constraint for Lyonar.

    what's strange is that it used to cost 3. then it was buffed to only cost 2. i mean you can "play around it" by literally punching every single thing that lyonar plays, but i think it is pushing a little when you need to essentially remove every single minion they play or risk dying to any single one that is in range of your general. i'd expect long term it gets reworked somehow and becomes something like attack = current health, or +atk = current health (that rechecks), or the minion can't attack the turn it is played.

    Inevitably you're going to run into an Ironcliffe Guardian you can't do much about and then you take 8-13 damage to the dome.

    Exactly. Usually for me it is a dioltas tombstone or even a double bonded azurite lion. Bond seems to be just slightly off to the side of fair.

    I want to think that the purpose of bond is to reward healing your guys up via Sundrop elixir or holy immolation (obviously the latter has other benefits), but it just seems like overkill. To be honest if it cost 4 or 5 it might still get played since you randomly will just end games.

    WingedWeasel on
    GoodKingJayIII
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited August 2016
    I agree. Everyone hates Spiral Technique, but it's an eight mana epic. Divine Bond is two, and yeah sure it requires you have a minion on the board, but the damage you get out of it is pretty insane. It's just way too efficient for the mana cost.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    the argument for divine bond I've seen on the discord:

    "it's the only thing keeping lyonar relevant"

    "taygette and makantor are the only things keeping magmar relevant"

    THAT'S SHITTY GAME DESIGN YOU DORKS

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
    metaghostGoodKingJayIII
  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    the argument for divine bond I've seen on the discord:

    "it's the only thing keeping lyonar relevant"

    "taygette and makantor are the only things keeping magmar relevant"

    THAT'S SHITTY GAME DESIGN YOU DORKS

    Given the small amount of cards I can't say it's bad design yet. Clearly it is intended to be played alongside additional cards.

    HOWEVER it does feel terrible to tell someone that you literally cant play a faction without X. Having something be a lynchpin for a strategy is one thing, if the card is a tent pole and thr only thing keeping the house of cards from crumbling it is a problem.

    GoodKingJayIII
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    I know we've talked about this before, but I sure do wish they would modify the "spirit economy" such that Legendary cards were a bit more accessible, in light of the fact that (compared to HS) there is no deck building restriction on their use. When I first started playing, I was proactively dusting cards to create what I wanted in the moment, but I'm much more hesitant now due to how often they revise cards, such that you never know if something will turn out to be integral to some future deck.

    I guess maybe their hope is that Prismatic cards will help ease the burden, but 2,700 spirit for a playset is just ughhhhhhhh.

  • WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    I havent seen legendaries go from bad to good that I can recall. The higher drop rate and flow of gold I think is how they are addressing the issue (sorta). I think the costs are on the high side as well though. The release of the first set will shake things up and also give a better idea of long term plans.

  • JauntyJaunty Registered User regular
    Oh wow this thread picked up
    I'm completely out of the meta and just started playing again after missing last season, so I have absolutely zero clue what's good anymore

    anyone have any experience with board-swarm vet decks? I'm trying to put some together using arcanysts and portal guardians and so far it's an absolute blast, just curious to see what works.

    qcklw92m98s0.png
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    the argument for divine bond I've seen on the discord:

    "it's the only thing keeping lyonar relevant"

    "taygette and makantor are the only things keeping magmar relevant"

    THAT'S SHITTY GAME DESIGN YOU DORKS

    Must have cards are always problematic. Hearthstone had the same problem at various stages, as you know. It's a thing that can be corrected, and it seems like Counterplay is active with the community and trying to address some of these issues.

    But it's also a smaller community than say, HS, so there's not the same kind of critical mass of data from the community saying "yo, this is fucked."

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • JauntyJaunty Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    the argument for divine bond I've seen on the discord:

    "it's the only thing keeping lyonar relevant"

    "taygette and makantor are the only things keeping magmar relevant"

    THAT'S SHITTY GAME DESIGN YOU DORKS

    Must have cards are always problematic. Hearthstone had the same problem at various stages, as you know. It's a thing that can be corrected, and it seems like Counterplay is active with the community and trying to address some of these issues.

    But it's also a smaller community than say, HS, so there's not the same kind of critical mass of data from the community saying "yo, this is fucked."

    I actually really like the design of divine bond
    I just don't think there are enough creatures/cards that deal with high-damage creatures directly in the game yet.

    throw in some interesting interactions like "the first damage [you/this creature] takes this turn heals instead of deals damage this turn" or "split target creature into 2 [or 3 or whatever] creatures, dividing ATTK & HP evenly and rounded down" type stuff in there and as the options open up things start to be way more fun.

    Jaunty on
    qcklw92m98s0.png
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    I like the concept of Divine Bond I just think it's way too efficient for its cost.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I like the concept of divine bond like I like the concept of inner fire in hearthstone, what I don't like is HOW BLOODY EASY THEY MADE IT TO GET VALUE OUT OF.

    Like literally Lyonar has 6 minions in their deck that instantly win the game if you let them live to be divine bonded. Dioltas' Tombstone and Ironcliffe. WHO BOTH ALSO HAPPEN TO HAVE PROVOKE OH LOL.

    Nevermind the fact that it's also hyper efficient to slap it on a Silverguard Squire or Sojourner.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    As it is with most things in CCGs, you can see the origin of the Divine Bond in Magic cards like Doran, the Siege Tower, a card that was considered power for a time but demanded significant effort to design a deck around.

    Like, creatures with huge asses are already the preferred size in games with direct attacking, so there's no real need to further incentivize that ideal.

    The Escape Goat
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    As it is with most things in CCGs, you can see the origin of the Divine Bond in Magic cards like Doran, the Siege Tower, a card that was considered power for a time but demanded significant effort to design a deck around.

    Like, creatures with huge asses are already the preferred size in games with direct attacking, so there's no real need to further incentivize that ideal.

    That's the real sticking point. Divine Bond is just free wins for a deck that would already exist. Any class would run Ironcliffe in a heartbeat because it's insane battlefield control. Many classes are already running Dioltas for the same reason. And then, wammo, 2 mana deal 10.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • JauntyJaunty Registered User regular
    5b13d2f45cf1c8307a47a27fafdb1349.png
    This is the Luncheon Meatgrinder deck I put together for this season, and games have been absolutely hilarious
    granted I'm way down the ladder right now but I don't really remember the climb as ever being too too difficult so I'm hoping this deck's hot-streak continues
    I think I can make room for a 6-7 drop by taking it down to only 2 Portal Guardians since they work so great as a late pickup due to their low cost allows them to be played with spells, comboing really well with any Firestarters or Prismatic Illusionists already on the board.

    What I really want to do is find a way to jam Owlbeasts in there somewhere because I just discovered that Prismatic Illusionist's illusions are counted as arcanysts (unlike Firestarter's spellsparks, despite firestarter himself being one). Owlbeasts+inner oasis just sounds too funny to me.

    qcklw92m98s0.png
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    as funny as that'd be, it's probably overkill and the third (if not the second) inner oasis should probably be what you're looking to cut first

    also 3 siphon + 3 lightbender seems a wee bit overkill

    might want to consider sun seer if you do put in owlbeast, he's a pretty good source of heals in my arcanyst vet because you can buff him for lots and lots of hits

    but really what that deck wants is yogg

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • JauntyJaunty Registered User regular
    @The Escape Goat thanks for the tips
    I hear you on the third inner oasis but the fact that it's also draw and that it makes all those little critters I'm spamming out sticky as hell makes me really reluctant to dump it. I think I could drop a lightbender pretty easily, I jammed them all in there after I got sick of dealing with shadow creep (since siphon does not dispell the space). I just gotta figure out what an amusing enough replacement would be.

    qcklw92m98s0.png
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    Ground up to Diamond again. Was struggling to make progress in Gold while playing an Owl Songhai deck (sans Heaven's Eclipse, cuz I got none), tried a budget Kara but hated it, then realized I had a fair amount of Magmar cards and was able to convert an Alter Rex into sufficient spirit to gather the rare playsets to unlock Taygete.

    Magmar is pretty dumb. I've been switching out tons of cards as I progressed, having never really played Magmar and wanted to get a feel for this and that, and Magmar just has a silly amount of versatility. As much as Warbeast and Taygete are the targets of a lot of animosity, the issue as I see is just that Magmar can be any deck it wants to be and not really have distinct weaknesses, and that isn't a quality that would disappear should they decide to delete Warbeast (or Taygete) from the game's history.

    Regardless, now I think I might fiddle with a Grincher Sajj deck just to have fun.

  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    edited August 2016
    They released a neat little animated video over the weekend to accompany an announcement that Duelyst is coming to consoles (PS4/XBone; no release date) —

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL-pMxa4ML8

    metaghost on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    That's cool. I'd give it a shot on the console.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
    WingedWeasel
  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Putting this on console seems really smart to me, it's a battleground Hearthstone isn't fighting over at all. It's basically just Gwent aiming at that market right now.

    liEt3nH.png
    WingedWeaselGoodKingJayIII
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    And according to the Devs, unless there's some technological snag that prevents it (or Sony/Microsoft says "no"), it'll be a shared account between Console/Browser/PC.

    WingedWeasel
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Blizzard connects its Battlenet accounts to Overwatch on PS4. No reason the same couldn't be done for Duelyst, in which case the transition would be super easy for me.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
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