The only thing that makes that card "weird" is that it references neutral creatures, which as you say are not distinguished in any way from faction creatures. It is otherwise just Celestial Phantom, a rare.
On that note, it seems like it might have been worthwhile to preserve "deathtouch" as a Songhai ability, just to make that tiniest of bit of effort to differentiate between factions and their abilities.
The only thing that makes that card "weird" is that it references neutral creatures, which as you say are not distinguished in any way from faction creatures. It is otherwise just Celestial Phantom, a rare.
On that note, it seems like it might have been worthwhile to preserve "deathtouch" as a Songhai ability, just to make that tiniest of bit of effort to differentiate between factions and their abilities.
a card that cares about whether its target is faction or neutral is very weird, not sure what your standards are
that's an out of game division having in-game effects
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Seems like an ok card, but boy do they just apply rarity randomly.
Hearthstone has this obvious problem that rarity doesn't really mean anything aside from dust cost and Arena "balance" (though they've already acknowledged that rarity is a bad metric for the second thing). I think Duelyst in imitating the a similar rarity system has that problem as well.
The only thing that makes that card "weird" is that it references neutral creatures, which as you say are not distinguished in any way from faction creatures. It is otherwise just Celestial Phantom, a rare.
On that note, it seems like it might have been worthwhile to preserve "deathtouch" as a Songhai ability, just to make that tiniest of bit of effort to differentiate between factions and their abilities.
I think having a natural death touch is fine. I've always felt that every faction should get their unique twist on mechanics, spreading some to neutral in a dire t way such as this is also fine if it doesn't show up everywhere. There are neutral celerity minions and that's the lyonar keyword, similarly frenzy shows up in multiple places despite being a magmar thing. I can understand wanting clean divisions but I think it is better this way.
Seems like an ok card, but boy do they just apply rarity randomly.
Hearthstone has this obvious problem that rarity doesn't really mean anything aside from dust cost and Arena "balance" (though they've already acknowledged that rarity is a bad metric for the second thing). I think Duelyst in imitating the a similar rarity system has that problem as well.
the rarity system does actually contribute to what I said earlier about new players and confusion and all that, and it makes sense that it shows up in these games because that was a core part of MTG's design philosophy and they're obviously going to take cues from the most successful TCG out there
plus, you know, you can somewhat get away with putting some really good cards at high rarities to drive pack sales, which is also a central component of the business model
Goat, I don't think I or anyone else has disputed the notion that certain complex mechanical ideas and/or alien rules concepts should be implemented at higher rarities such that newer players aren't confronted with too much too fast.
But I do dispute the idea that referencing neutral minions is one such complex or alien rules concept, as the idea of neutral minions is a fundamental element of the game that provides a presumed majority of the cards. If you do not know what a neutral minion is, you aren't paying attention. Now, if you're argument is that the lack of distinguishing features on neutral minions necessitates the higher rarity, I would say that as much as that may be true, that to me is still a failure of their development process. If that had been a concern of theirs prompting a higher rarity, they should have just held off on "printing" such text until they solved the issue with their GUI.
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I can't tell if that Lyonar card is good or not.
It seems like it could swing games pretty significantly depending on the placement minions. Three provokes with hardy bodies is pretty good, hard to remove all three of those. But it doesn't really do anything if you're dealing with an opponent who has more range or spell reach.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
It seems like it could swing games pretty significantly depending on the placement minions. Three provokes with hardy bodies is pretty good, hard to remove all three of those. But it doesn't really do anything if you're dealing with an opponent who has more range or spell reach.
sky phalanx seems really strong. presumably you will get to choose where the silverguard knights go but even if it is random they should cover enough area (usually) to have you entirely protected and odds are you can provoke someone if you are on the offensive. it is a great topdeck since in argeon summoning 2 3/5's and a 5/5 all with provoke seems crazy good.
i guess the only question is whether 8 amna will be too slow of if the other factions get better top end cards.
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I threw together a Kara deck and man is it pretty strong. I'm not even running something particularly optimized--just a bunch of strong neutral minions and card draw to keep the hand full. Suddenly everything minion is a huge threat.
One question: why do my Snow Chasers sometimes not come back to my hand when they die? And no, they weren't dispelled and my hand wasn't full. It happened twice during games against the AI, and once in a ladder game. I don't know if I'm reading the card incorrectly, but if it's a bug that's pretty bad.
and note that this does not include the center row
I don't know if how you're supposed to do it but I always fight vanar from the center row, to minimize the number of infiltrate spots that can hit me and so I don't get bodyslammed by avalanche
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Kara's a pretty dumb general and I'm sure she'll be the first to be nerfed (assuming we ignore the change to creep in response to Cassyva). Giving +1/+1 to all minions summoned the turn you activate BBS seems like one possibility that doesn't dramatically alter the identity of what she does.
Kara's a pretty dumb general and I'm sure she'll be the first to be nerfed (assuming we ignore the change to creep in response to Cassyva). Giving +1/+1 to all minions summoned the turn you activate BBS seems like one possibility that doesn't dramatically alter the identity of what she does.
that seems a little weak, but it is possible. i haven't found kara to be too bad. yes it is frustrating when they get double saberspine in their opener and you can't pressure them enough (guess what happened yesterday!), but in order to properly abuse the BBS you need to make some concessions. i don't think the cardpool supports a broken kara build at the moment although it could in the future.
I mean, none of the abilities should actually be strong. They should just be mana-sinks that have some build-around potential. Part of why Kaleos is under-represented is that his ability demands that you control a creature AND that creature needs to be positioned such that being teleported is meaningful — that's a weak ability, presumably meant to compensate for perceived strengths in the Songhai repertoire. Of course, the Magmar generals each got excellent abilities, so I'm not sure they really had balance in mind.
i don't think it is a problem if the abilities are strong if the rest of the game is built around that. the issue is when they are not in line with each other. personally i find kara to be acceptable at the moment.
I would say that a significant issue with Kara's ability is that it clearly puts certain development pressures upon how they design Vanar and Neutral creatures, as they have to bear in mind that each such creature can very easily be +1/+1 greater than designed, if not 2 or 3. I imagine that the usage of Saberspine Tigers as a sort of two-card combo-kill is part of why they are supposedly redesigning Rush, and the way that Kara leverages ETB triggers should be additionally concerning, as most such creatures are designed to be smaller as compensation for the accompanying effect.
And it's not surprising folks would downplay the strength of symmetrical card draw, even in the face of Spelljammer and Blaze Hound being significant players in the current meta.
i didn't see that they were redesigning rush. was that on reddit? what's it supposed to be? rush (or charge, or ferocity, or whatever the game in question calls it) is arguably the most powerful mechanic in any game where it exists.
i agree the bbs is constraining, i am just not certain if that is a problem that vanar and neutral guys need to have worse bodies. in the case of etb minions i think it is reasonable with the way they are now and continuing to force them to have weaker stats seems fine. sure it is something to keep in mind, but it isn't inherently a problem. playing a bunch of 2/2 for 2 guys because they get effects and might be 4/4's late in the game is a decision you need to make when constructing the deck. i can reasonably see it changing it is definitely strong.
I thought I saw it in the giant Shimzar reddit post that devs had said a "change to Rush" was accompanying the change to creep, but I have no idea what that could mean.
Kara's a pretty dumb general and I'm sure she'll be the first to be nerfed (assuming we ignore the change to creep in response to Cassyva). Giving +1/+1 to all minions summoned the turn you activate BBS seems like one possibility that doesn't dramatically alter the identity of what she does.
wait is there a confirmed creep change (and if so what is it)
or do we just know that they are going to change it but not what that change will be?
Kara's a pretty dumb general and I'm sure she'll be the first to be nerfed (assuming we ignore the change to creep in response to Cassyva). Giving +1/+1 to all minions summoned the turn you activate BBS seems like one possibility that doesn't dramatically alter the identity of what she does.
wait is there a confirmed creep change (and if so what is it)
or do we just know that they are going to change it but not what that change will be?
creep always does 1 damage
shadow nova costs 4
there's an 8 cost spell that blows up all your creep to do that many tiles of damage to all enemies
Hot damn, I can't wait
I was expecting something like creep getting cleared from the tile once it deals its damage which honestly I would have been fine with but this is a delightful surprise.
i don't like this card at the moment. spirit of the wild already exists and works with any minion. yes this adds a body but the vespyr restriction, and only being 1 minion is tough. arctic displacer as mentioned is good with it, but i want to see what other vespyrs are added. vespyr.dec has felt close since some of their cards are super strong, but a lot of the actual minions are awful.
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eh, makes sense to me
it's a really weird effect, you put weird effects on epics and legendaries to not confuse new players so badly/quickly
that said they need some way to tell between neutral and faction cards if a new player does happen to open one of these
On that note, it seems like it might have been worthwhile to preserve "deathtouch" as a Songhai ability, just to make that tiniest of bit of effort to differentiate between factions and their abilities.
a card that cares about whether its target is faction or neutral is very weird, not sure what your standards are
that's an out of game division having in-game effects
Hearthstone has this obvious problem that rarity doesn't really mean anything aside from dust cost and Arena "balance" (though they've already acknowledged that rarity is a bad metric for the second thing). I think Duelyst in imitating the a similar rarity system has that problem as well.
PSN: Threeve703
I think having a natural death touch is fine. I've always felt that every faction should get their unique twist on mechanics, spreading some to neutral in a dire t way such as this is also fine if it doesn't show up everywhere. There are neutral celerity minions and that's the lyonar keyword, similarly frenzy shows up in multiple places despite being a magmar thing. I can understand wanting clean divisions but I think it is better this way.
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the rarity system does actually contribute to what I said earlier about new players and confusion and all that, and it makes sense that it shows up in these games because that was a core part of MTG's design philosophy and they're obviously going to take cues from the most successful TCG out there
plus, you know, you can somewhat get away with putting some really good cards at high rarities to drive pack sales, which is also a central component of the business model
But I do dispute the idea that referencing neutral minions is one such complex or alien rules concept, as the idea of neutral minions is a fundamental element of the game that provides a presumed majority of the cards. If you do not know what a neutral minion is, you aren't paying attention. Now, if you're argument is that the lack of distinguishing features on neutral minions necessitates the higher rarity, I would say that as much as that may be true, that to me is still a failure of their development process. If that had been a concern of theirs prompting a higher rarity, they should have just held off on "printing" such text until they solved the issue with their GUI.
It seems like it could swing games pretty significantly depending on the placement minions. Three provokes with hardy bodies is pretty good, hard to remove all three of those. But it doesn't really do anything if you're dealing with an opponent who has more range or spell reach.
PSN: Threeve703
it's call of the wild, it's good
i guess the only question is whether 8 amna will be too slow of if the other factions get better top end cards.
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i think so, but i couldnt remember if there were any exceptions
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One question: why do my Snow Chasers sometimes not come back to my hand when they die? And no, they weren't dispelled and my hand wasn't full. It happened twice during games against the AI, and once in a ladder game. I don't know if I'm reading the card incorrectly, but if it's a bug that's pretty bad.
PSN: Threeve703
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and note that this does not include the center row
I don't know if how you're supposed to do it but I always fight vanar from the center row, to minimize the number of infiltrate spots that can hit me and so I don't get bodyslammed by avalanche
Hoo boy. I stared at that card for like 5 minutes and still didn't see that...
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that seems a little weak, but it is possible. i haven't found kara to be too bad. yes it is frustrating when they get double saberspine in their opener and you can't pressure them enough (guess what happened yesterday!), but in order to properly abuse the BBS you need to make some concessions. i don't think the cardpool supports a broken kara build at the moment although it could in the future.
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And it's not surprising folks would downplay the strength of symmetrical card draw, even in the face of Spelljammer and Blaze Hound being significant players in the current meta.
i agree the bbs is constraining, i am just not certain if that is a problem that vanar and neutral guys need to have worse bodies. in the case of etb minions i think it is reasonable with the way they are now and continuing to force them to have weaker stats seems fine. sure it is something to keep in mind, but it isn't inherently a problem. playing a bunch of 2/2 for 2 guys because they get effects and might be 4/4's late in the game is a decision you need to make when constructing the deck. i can reasonably see it changing it is definitely strong.
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or even just the icehowl effect/how it works in shadowverse (can't attack heroes/can't attack heroes the turn they're summoned)
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wait is there a confirmed creep change (and if so what is it)
or do we just know that they are going to change it but not what that change will be?
creep always does 1 damage
shadow nova costs 4
there's an 8 cost spell that blows up all your creep to do that many tiles of damage to all enemies
I was expecting something like creep getting cleared from the tile once it deals its damage which honestly I would have been fine with but this is a delightful surprise.
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And just the thought of getting Displacer-Huldra'd pisses me off.