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[Hamilton] is now on Disney+

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

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    The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    The Room Where It Happens is where it's at.

    Miranda called it one of the best songs he's ever written. According to my play count, it's #1 on my list.

    Guns and Ships is #2. Because Lafayette.

    Last pint: Ridgeback Red / Block 15 - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
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    facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    Does the play address Hamilton's relationship with Laurens at all?

    By which I mean, this is a good excuse to read those letters some more.

    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Could you imagine in 2015 if joe Biden shot and killed jack lew and KEPT BEING VICE PRESIDENT

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    facetious wrote: »
    Does the play address Hamilton's relationship with Laurens at all?

    By which I mean, this is a good excuse to read those letters some more.

    Laurens is a pretty minor character, after he duels Charles Lee he just sort of disappears from the play and he's not in it much before that

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Can you imagine if Dick Cheney had shot a guy in the face and kept being Vice President?

    Forgiveness

    Can you imagine

    Forgiveness

    knitdan on
    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    tinauntinaun Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    facetious wrote: »
    Does the play address Hamilton's relationship with Laurens at all?

    By which I mean, this is a good excuse to read those letters some more.

    Laurens is a pretty minor character, after he duels Charles Lee he just sort of disappears from the play and he's not in it much before that

    There is a small song about his death that's cut from the cast recording. It's basically the only thing not on there.

    Sucks that he died in a battle after Yorktown, less than a month before the last of the british troops left.

    tinaun on
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    It's interesting

    Burr's attitude in the show seems opportunistic and cowardly

    But he ends up marrying the woman he loves and if it weren't for Hamilton he might have won the election

    Both of their approaches are valid and were it not for them fucking each other up they wouldn't have had any issues

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    How is there justifiable self defense in a duel

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    CosCos Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    How is there justifiable self defense in a duel

    Maybe "justifiable response" is more accurate. Either way, that argument didn't really benefit ol' Burr.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    In the moment it would have looked like hamilton actually did try to shoot burr and missed, his shot was not obviously thrown

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Finally finished this this morning. Second half is not as great but still very good

    I'm gonna throw out a favorite song that most people haven't mentioned

    I absolutely love Non-Stop, its probably my second favorite after guns and ships

    But it also doesn't work without like the whole first half so I kinda get it

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Duels were not legal

    If you didnt shoot or very clearly used your shot in a way that could not hurt the other party, and they shot you, that's murder

    If you shoot first in a way that would lead the other party to feel justifiably threatened for their life then if they shoot you they can claim self defense

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I like the hypothesis that burr tried the same coolguy barely-miss that hamilton did, but missed his miss

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I think Satisfied is the best song in the show

    But Guns and Ships, Yorktown and You'll Be Back are all stuck in a brutal, unending fight for my personal favorite

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Alexander Hamilton, My shot, and right hand man are my favorites I think

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    My Shot is fantastic but I like Lafayette's verse in Guns and Ships more and the My Shot reprise and Hercules Mulligan's verse in Yorktown better, personally

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    The BetgirlThe Betgirl I'm Molly! Registered User regular
    i'm always gonna give it up for america's favorite fighting frenchman

    Steam PSN: YerFriendMolly
    ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Wait for it is pretty good

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    nicopernicusnicopernicus Registered User regular
    Burn destroys me every time. After that it's satisfied and room where it happens for me... Wait I can't choose they are all so good, and my favorite changes from day to day.

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Burn and It's Quiet Uptown are both excellent but they're not exactly fun listens

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons
    I really don't think there's very much of a distinction.

    Maybe you have ample opportunity to step back and change your mind in the duel system, but really it's the same underlying nonsense. There's way weirder cultural practices surrounding way more esoteric human social behavior than "fuck that guy".

    sarukun on
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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons
    I really don't think there's very much of a distinction.

    Maybe you have ample opportunity to step back and change your mind in the duel system, but really it's the same underlying nonsense. There's way weirder cultural practices surrounding way more esoteric human social behavior than "fuck that guy".

    Getting mad at someone and shooting them and the situation in a duel are incredibly different

    its the difference between a crime of passion and violence with planning and forethought

    Its why the justice system looks on those things very differently

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Could you imagine in 2015 if joe Biden shot and killed jack lew and KEPT BEING VICE PRESIDENT

    Buzz Aldrin would've shot so many jerks by now

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    Duels were just...more bullshit from people kind of obsessed with being honorable gentlemen, like...there are all these rules surrounding duels, and surrounding how you even start a duel, and mostly they seem like this absurd combination of pageantry and absurd chest thumping. Like, most of the time, people don't even get to the duel phase, someone comes in and goes "alright, just apologize to this giant baby so we can all move on," and even when both sides are giant babies, most of the time they don't shoot each other, it's this fucking insane game of chicken.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons

    Yeah

    One involves far less of a chance of someone getting hurt

    Like, I don't agree with the "duels were a better way" hypothesis, but it's pretty much based on this principle

    If you punch someone in the face you're going to hurt him, and he's going to punch you back and eventually you'll stop (or be stopped) but you're both going to get hurt

    If you instead challenge that same man to a duel

    Then two days later you're going to think about it a lot and decide that maybe you don't want to have that much blood on your hands

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons
    I really don't think there's very much of a distinction.

    Maybe you have ample opportunity to step back and change your mind in the duel system, but really it's the same underlying nonsense. There's way weirder cultural practices surrounding way more esoteric human social behavior than "fuck that guy".

    Getting mad at someone and shooting them and the situation in a duel are incredibly different

    its the difference between a crime of passion and violence with planning and forethought

    Its why the justice system looks on those things very differently

    Which is wrapped up in our culture and the philosophies that were produced by it.

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons
    I really don't think there's very much of a distinction.

    Maybe you have ample opportunity to step back and change your mind in the duel system, but really it's the same underlying nonsense. There's way weirder cultural practices surrounding way more esoteric human social behavior than "fuck that guy".

    Getting mad at someone and shooting them and the situation in a duel are incredibly different

    its the difference between a crime of passion and violence with planning and forethought

    Its why the justice system looks on those things very differently

    Which is wrapped up in our culture and the philosophies that were produced by it.

    If you really think spur of the moment violence and delayed, continued intent to commit violence are the same I don't know what to say other than that you are wrong.

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    sarukun wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    seriously though

    people in old times used to think "if you insult me badly enough then we need to go out to a field and SHOOT AT EACH OTHER"

    why was that a thing?!

    You say that like it isn't still a thing for people to get mad and hurt/try to kill each other.

    There's a difference between hurting someone in a fit of rage and having a complex code of honor built around sometimes attacking each other with lethal weapons
    I really don't think there's very much of a distinction.

    Maybe you have ample opportunity to step back and change your mind in the duel system, but really it's the same underlying nonsense. There's way weirder cultural practices surrounding way more esoteric human social behavior than "fuck that guy".

    Getting mad at someone and shooting them and the situation in a duel are incredibly different

    its the difference between a crime of passion and violence with planning and forethought

    Its why the justice system looks on those things very differently

    Which is wrapped up in our culture and the philosophies that were produced by it.

    If you really think spur of the moment violence and delayed, continued intent to commit violence are the same I don't know what to say other than that you are wrong.

    I don't think they're identical.

    But I think the distinction is a small one and more related to the cultural background of the participants than anything else.

    Edit: Like, passion is not something that invariably and necessarily wanes over time, especially if there are no cultural forces at work that discourage it.

    sarukun on
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Also dueling pistols were notoriously unreliable and so much of dueling was just about challenging someone and then everyone apologizes

    And most duels were not fought past the first shot, or in the time of swords, first blood

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Dueling is what happens when codes of masculinity meet codes of honor

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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    facetious wrote: »
    Does the play address Hamilton's relationship with Laurens at all?

    By which I mean, this is a good excuse to read those letters some more.

    There's hamilton's line "Laurens I like you a lot" in My Shot, which Miranda has confirmed alludes to their purported relationship, but it doesn't do anything more with it

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Finally got through the whole album.

    Right Hand Man miiiight be my favorite (for now anyway).

    Edit: Err, not album I guess. Whatever you'd call it, good stuff!

    Houk the Namebringer on
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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    I just hit HERCULES MULLIGAN.

    I'm way into this.

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    NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    I like sorrow and villian songs so I'm a bigger fan of the second half now.

    Careful how you proceed, good man
    Intemperate indeed, good man
    Recognize the accusations I lay at your feet
    or prepare to bleed, good man

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    I just hit HERCULES MULLIGAN.

    I'm way into this.
    DON'T NEED NO INTRODUCTION

    YOU KNOCK ME DOWN I GET THE FUCK BACK UP AGAIN

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    This musical is a master class in effective use of profanity.

    It isn't afraid to swear, but isn't afraid to shy away from it when that's funnier.

    Makes it a seasoning, not a main dish.

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    The BetgirlThe Betgirl I'm Molly! Registered User regular
    The one point where they don't swear that actively confuses me is in Satisfied when she says 'And when you said hi/ I forgot my dang name' vs damn name

    I don't know what makes that choice happen but I keep expecting to hear 'damn' and it is definitely not 'damn'

    Steam PSN: YerFriendMolly
    ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    That hard g can make dang hit way harder in my humble opinion.

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