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As cool as winter, as hot as summer and all Wizard [Harry Dresden]-Next book is not out!

MazzyxMazzyx Comedy GoldRegistered User regular
edited November 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
Harry Dresden:Wizard Extraordinaire

Skin Game is out! Please watch your spoilers carefully.

1.Who is Harry Dresden?

-Harry Dresden is the main character of a series of books called The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. He is a wizard as he explains numerous times though out the books. He has his own Scooby gang kind of like Buffy. And he fights evil, sometimes has lunch with Faerie Queens and usually ends up blowing at least one building up a book. All in all Harry is a bad ass.

2.Why should I read about this guy? Isn't this just a Harry Potter the adult ripoff?

-The Dresden Files are some of the most fun books you can find. The characters are witty, the conversations are fun and the action is packed through and through. The more of the books you read the more you get into it. Plus the guy is such a dork it will make you feel better about yourself time and again.

3.OK, this sounds like it might be more fun than poking my eyes with a hot stick or reading Twilight. Where do I start?

-The Dresden Files has turned into a pretty long series. It is 14 books with a 15th on the way. The stories in each book though are pretty self contained and unlike some other Fantasy series it actually has books coming out about once a year. So the wait period isn't 2 years to when the next ice age hits.

The Books in Order
StormFront_Hardcover_1-120.jpg
FoolMoon_Hardcover_3-120.jpg
GravePeril_Hardcover_4-120.jpg
SummerKnight_Paperback_12-120.jpg
DeathMasks_Paperback_13-120.jpg
BloodRites_Paperback_14-120.jpg
DeadBeat_Hardcover_5-120.jpg
ProvenGuilty_Hardcover_6-120.jpg
WhiteNight_Hardcover_7-120.jpg
SmallFavor_Hardcover_8-120.jpg
TurnCoat_Hardcover_9-120.jpg
Changes_Hardcover_106-120.jpg
gsCoverStore.jpg
cdcover_sm.jpg
skingame_lg-200x300.jpg

Next Books Title is: Peace Talks

Short Stories! Thanks Cimmerii for point them out because I always forget about them.

Short Stories for Dresden!


Don't forget the graphic novel! Mostly because I did because I am a fool!
h7935.jpg

4. Ok, sir, I have read the books and I am in your thread. What do you want me to do? I mean I am in love with Murphy but how will she ever love a neckbeard like me? What do I discuss in this thread?

-Well, hoss, this is where you talk about the books. Plots, theories, favorite characters and favorite moments. Ask questions about are the books good or which one is your favorite. If you could though hoss avoid the Mary Sue shit. It killed the last thread and many threads before this and we really don't want to bring a satellite down on yah. Also, use spoilers for major events or twist. If you are discussing the new book put everything in spoilers for the newest book, some folks gotta work for a livin'. For older books try to keep it to minor stuff unspoiled and major stuff spoiled. You may discuss relationships unspoiled, if and only if it isn't breaking any of the previous rules. And the same goes for speculatin'. Other than that enjoy the thread.

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Posts

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Should the OP have a warning about the first couple books?

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I don't think so.

    I enjoyed them even if the later ones are much better.

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  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Should the OP have correct spelling and BBCode?

    I think it should
    <3 Mazzy

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    It is true, I am all wizard. Ladies.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    Should the OP have correct spelling and BBCode?

    I think it should
    <3 Mazzy

    Hard to believe that OP is like 5 years old.

    I update it from time to time but I think it was a late night ramble when I first made it.

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  • Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    When is the new book coming out?

    ISIS delenda est
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    When is the new book coming out?

    Some time next spring is the current estimate.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    "Soon."

    Aka: "Not Soon Enough".

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    How's the graphic novel?

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  • Worsel96Worsel96 A Castle in the SkyRegistered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    How's the graphic novel?

    It was good, but it's a quick read. The art was solid and it gave my my Dresden fix so I was happy. Wish I could tell you more. It's been awhile since I read it. There are actually a few others out now too, though I haven't picked them up yet.

    Elvenshae
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    I don't think so.

    I enjoyed them even if the later ones are much better.

    I usually have to push people I've introduced to the series to keep going during Fool Moon. It's a rough read.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I dunno about that graphic novel. I mean all the book covers show Harry with a hat, but the graphic novel doesn't.
    The war between Butcher and the cover artist rages on.

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    How's the graphic novel?

    Depends on which one.

    Welcome to the Jungle is a really nice Side Job story that builds off of a throwaway line or two in Storm Front. It's set just before Storm Front and covers a case Harry works at the zoo.

    The Storm Front and Fool Moon graphic novels are pretty good. They're basically condensed versions of the novels.

    Ghoul Goblin is good, and fleshed out some story stuff, but probably the lesser of the graphic novels. It covers a family curse and a feud between the title creatures.

    War Cry is great, as befitting the first original graphic novel in the series to fit the naming convention. It's set before Changes and it covers Harry and Ramirez as they take out their small squad of trainee wardens on a 'simple' mission.

    RingoElvenshaeRchanenShadowhope
  • AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    My reread of the series continues. As i have lost control over my life, i have read entire Proven Guily in 2 days.

    I think it may be my favourite book of the series - not only because it has smaller scale than epic Dead Beat which makes nice contrast, but also because it's the only book in the series that finished with a lot of questions unanswered so far. I would not be surprised if it turned out, that it's the most important book for the series plot overall.

    Spoilers for the entire series!
    The most obvious unanswered question is, what the hell really happened at Arctis Tor - we may guess, than Nemesis infected Denarian and others tried to free infected Lea, but so far, we still don't have clear answer.

    At the start of the book, Harry gets hit by grey Chrysler, even before he starts investigating anything - yeah, after reading Cold Days we may assume it was Ace, but it would be really boring answer, so i consider him a red herring.

    We still dont know who fixed a Little Chicago at the end.

    And the most interesting question - what was this all about about Fetches at Splattercon!!! ?

    We know that they were after Molly, but someone had to summon them. Harry realizes, that Madrigal Raith was an obvious fall guy, even though he had personaly nothing to do with entire plot - the problem is, that he was invited one year before, so someone was already planning this that long ago.

    When Scarecrow attacks Harry, Thomas and Madrigal, he killes Glau, Madrigal's assistant first, which Harry finds suspicious. He propably had something to do with this plot, and was killed so he wouldn't be interrogated.

    Who invited Madrigal to Splattercon!!!? Sandra Marling, minor character. There are 2 problems though:

    1. She didn;t touch Harry's hand, which, as we remeber, was also used as a plot point in Blood Rites.
    2. She is ALSO responsible for giving Molly an idea ofr using fear by mind control on her friends, which starts entire plot.

    Coincidence? I don't think so, and i will be highly surprised, it she won;t return in any future book.

    Main theory? One of the future books will be about time travel, Prisoner of Azkaban style (and i have to remind - time travel is directly sicussed in this book by Harry nad Bob!), and the story will be about revisiting Proven Guilty plot to find out, what it REALLY was all about.

    It is not a new theory, but i like it so much, that i just had to share it here.

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Keep in mind Butcher has said Harry will end up breaking all the Laws of Magic at some point in the series. Time travel is one of those.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Little Chicago:
    While we don't know for sure, safe bet is Lash. Unless you were including that theory already and still wanting a concrete answer, then nm!

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  • AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Little Chicago:
    While we don't know for sure, safe bet is Lash. Unless you were including that theory already and still wanting a concrete answer, then nm!

    I don't buy it.
    If Lash was strong enough to do that, then there would be no point in trying to convinve Harry to take the coin, and she could have just take control of him and pick it up herself.

    Second, meta reason: she is dead. If she really fixed Little Chicago, she would mention it to Harry before her death, and now it's too late to do that. Leaving mystery like that unanswered would by a poor writing by author.

    My guess? Future Harry.

    ... or Mab, but she also would metion it by now.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Probably wasn't Mab. Saving someone from their own screw ups isn't really her style. She saved his life in Changes/Ghost Story because she had an investment in him, and probably respected his attempt to remove himself from her potential control. If it was a fae who did it, Leanansidhe would be more likely, since she is tasked to guard him and actually has access to his basement, but she wasn't exactly in a state to be doing much of anything along those lines at that point.

    I don't think it was Lash, but if it was, I don't think it would invalidate the idea that the Denarians can't just up and control their hosts. You could argue that at that point Lash was enough of a separate entity that the normal free will constraints weren't as binding, and she was doing something that would be of pure benefit to Harry, so maybe that's an out. It's not good writing though, so hopefully it's not the case.

    I'll go with Future Harry too. You need knowledge of Little Chicago, and that's a pretty specialized thing that even a skilled wizard would need time with to get a handle on how it works and how it might be broken. Plus you'd need access, which means going through Harry's wards (either bypassing them or busting through and rebuilding them afterwards), or going in through the Nevernever (which means punching the crap out of two giant centipedes). So with all that, Future Harry is probably the best bet.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Probably wasn't Mab. Saving someone from their own screw ups isn't really her style. She saved his life in Changes/Ghost Story because she had an investment in him, and probably respected his attempt to remove himself from her potential control. If it was a fae who did it, Leanansidhe would be more likely, since she is tasked to guard him and actually has access to his basement, but she wasn't exactly in a state to be doing much of anything along those lines at that point.

    I don't think it was Lash, but if it was, I don't think it would invalidate the idea that the Denarians can't just up and control their hosts. You could argue that at that point Lash was enough of a separate entity that the normal free will constraints weren't as binding, and she was doing something that would be of pure benefit to Harry, so maybe that's an out. It's not good writing though, so hopefully it's not the case.

    I'll go with Future Harry too. You need knowledge of Little Chicago, and that's a pretty specialized thing that even a skilled wizard would need time with to get a handle on how it works and how it might be broken. Plus you'd need access, which means going through Harry's wards (either bypassing them or busting through and rebuilding them afterwards), or going in through the Nevernever (which means punching the crap out of two giant centipedes). So with all that, Future Harry is probably the best bet.
    Lash specifically says 'you're easier to talk to when you're sleeping' so maybe Harry in his head was convinced to by lash and did something about it.

    Harry DresdenRchanen
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Probably wasn't Mab. Saving someone from their own screw ups isn't really her style. She saved his life in Changes/Ghost Story because she had an investment in him, and probably respected his attempt to remove himself from her potential control. If it was a fae who did it, Leanansidhe would be more likely, since she is tasked to guard him and actually has access to his basement, but she wasn't exactly in a state to be doing much of anything along those lines at that point.

    I don't think it was Lash, but if it was, I don't think it would invalidate the idea that the Denarians can't just up and control their hosts. You could argue that at that point Lash was enough of a separate entity that the normal free will constraints weren't as binding, and she was doing something that would be of pure benefit to Harry, so maybe that's an out. It's not good writing though, so hopefully it's not the case.

    I'll go with Future Harry too. You need knowledge of Little Chicago, and that's a pretty specialized thing that even a skilled wizard would need time with to get a handle on how it works and how it might be broken. Plus you'd need access, which means going through Harry's wards (either bypassing them or busting through and rebuilding them afterwards), or going in through the Nevernever (which means punching the crap out of two giant centipedes). So with all that, Future Harry is probably the best bet.
    Lash specifically says 'you're easier to talk to when you're sleeping' so maybe Harry in his head was convinced to by lash and did something about it.
    Yeah, while I do think that Future Harry is the one responsible here, I do remember that Harry has another self in his head who frequently chatted with Lash during his duration as host.

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Asthariel wrote: »
    My reread of the series continues. As i have lost control over my life, i have read entire Proven Guily in 2 days.

    I think it may be my favourite book of the series - not only because it has smaller scale than epic Dead Beat which makes nice contrast, but also because it's the only book in the series that finished with a lot of questions unanswered so far. I would not be surprised if it turned out, that it's the most important book for the series plot overall.

    Spoilers for the entire series!
    The most obvious unanswered question is, what the hell really happened at Arctis Tor - we may guess, than Nemesis infected Denarian and others tried to free infected Lea, but so far, we still don't have clear answer.

    At the start of the book, Harry gets hit by grey Chrysler, even before he starts investigating anything - yeah, after reading Cold Days we may assume it was Ace, but it would be really boring answer, so i consider him a red herring.

    We still dont know who fixed a Little Chicago at the end.

    And the most interesting question - what was this all about about Fetches at Splattercon!!! ?

    We know that they were after Molly, but someone had to summon them. Harry realizes, that Madrigal Raith was an obvious fall guy, even though he had personaly nothing to do with entire plot - the problem is, that he was invited one year before, so someone was already planning this that long ago.

    When Scarecrow attacks Harry, Thomas and Madrigal, he killes Glau, Madrigal's assistant first, which Harry finds suspicious. He propably had something to do with this plot, and was killed so he wouldn't be interrogated.

    Who invited Madrigal to Splattercon!!!? Sandra Marling, minor character. There are 2 problems though:

    1. She didn;t touch Harry's hand, which, as we remeber, was also used as a plot point in Blood Rites.
    2. She is ALSO responsible for giving Molly an idea ofr using fear by mind control on her friends, which starts entire plot.

    Coincidence? I don't think so, and i will be highly surprised, it she won;t return in any future book.

    Main theory? One of the future books will be about time travel, Prisoner of Azkaban style (and i have to remind - time travel is directly sicussed in this book by Harry nad Bob!), and the story will be about revisiting Proven Guilty plot to find out, what it REALLY was all about.

    It is not a new theory, but i like it so much, that i just had to share it here.
    My theory is fairly similar
    Harry is Cowl and Molly is Kumori.

    Well, alternate history Harry and Molly.

    Cowl has connections specifically to He Who Walks Behind, has knowledge of the Darkhallow and hatred of Kemmler and his acolytes, he believes that the White Council is dark and corrupt, he has a hatred of the Winter Sidth, knowledge of the internal politics of the White Court, knows Bob is with Harry (when not even the other Kemmlerites knew), has the chance to kill Ramirez, but instead throws him free from the Darkhallow.

    I'm saying he has a lot of overlap and knowledge with Harry.

    Kumori knows about Harry's magical items (naming them specifically when asking him to disarm himself), uses Japanese when casting spells (her name also means "cloudiness"), and has a more gentle nature than Cowl.

    She has some crossover with Molly, but she really only gets one solid appearance in the books so there's less evidence.



    Now, imagine Harry going through the books without any of the stuff we know Cowl or the Black Council did in the background.

    Harry isn't clued in to people like Victor Sells, the hexenwulfs, or the Darkhallow.

    The Winter Court doesn't know about the infiltration among them or others.

    Molly isn't discovered as a witch until some time later as the Fetches don't have the free run to leave Arctis Tor and alert Harry.

    Little Chicago isn't almost destroyed by Cowl, so Harry isn't forced into examining it again.

    Harry doesn't get the upper hand on the White Court politically.

    The White Council doesn't have the same kind of fighting against the Red Court with Black Council representatives that forces certain traitors within it to hold off their plans.

    I'm willing to bet there's a lot more that has to do with tipping the odds more into Harry's favor.

    Harry would be a different and possibly much darker person, and wouldn't have been there to stop some world changing events.

    So, Harry and Molly, at the end of the world, facing the inevitable apocalypse that would have resulted, and finally with the full knowledge of what is going to happen decide that the way to survive is to break laws of magic, and go back in time to stop it.

    So they orchestrate plans that would allow them to clue in people about the threats while trying to gain enough power themselves to fight off the oncoming apocalypse. They adopt disguises to allow their alternate selves to go on normally and with only a few interventions to clue them in or to prevent certain disasters.

    Overall, Cowl and the others do a lot of damage to people, but seem to hold back when it comes to directly hurting certain people or to hiding their plans.

  • AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Asthariel wrote: »
    My reread of the series continues. As i have lost control over my life, i have read entire Proven Guily in 2 days.

    I think it may be my favourite book of the series - not only because it has smaller scale than epic Dead Beat which makes nice contrast, but also because it's the only book in the series that finished with a lot of questions unanswered so far. I would not be surprised if it turned out, that it's the most important book for the series plot overall.

    Spoilers for the entire series!
    The most obvious unanswered question is, what the hell really happened at Arctis Tor - we may guess, than Nemesis infected Denarian and others tried to free infected Lea, but so far, we still don't have clear answer.

    At the start of the book, Harry gets hit by grey Chrysler, even before he starts investigating anything - yeah, after reading Cold Days we may assume it was Ace, but it would be really boring answer, so i consider him a red herring.

    We still dont know who fixed a Little Chicago at the end.

    And the most interesting question - what was this all about about Fetches at Splattercon!!! ?

    We know that they were after Molly, but someone had to summon them. Harry realizes, that Madrigal Raith was an obvious fall guy, even though he had personaly nothing to do with entire plot - the problem is, that he was invited one year before, so someone was already planning this that long ago.

    When Scarecrow attacks Harry, Thomas and Madrigal, he killes Glau, Madrigal's assistant first, which Harry finds suspicious. He propably had something to do with this plot, and was killed so he wouldn't be interrogated.

    Who invited Madrigal to Splattercon!!!? Sandra Marling, minor character. There are 2 problems though:

    1. She didn;t touch Harry's hand, which, as we remeber, was also used as a plot point in Blood Rites.
    2. She is ALSO responsible for giving Molly an idea ofr using fear by mind control on her friends, which starts entire plot.

    Coincidence? I don't think so, and i will be highly surprised, it she won;t return in any future book.

    Main theory? One of the future books will be about time travel, Prisoner of Azkaban style (and i have to remind - time travel is directly sicussed in this book by Harry nad Bob!), and the story will be about revisiting Proven Guilty plot to find out, what it REALLY was all about.

    It is not a new theory, but i like it so much, that i just had to share it here.
    My theory is fairly similar
    Harry is Cowl and Molly is Kumori.

    Well, alternate history Harry and Molly.

    Cowl has connections specifically to He Who Walks Behind, has knowledge of the Darkhallow and hatred of Kemmler and his acolytes, he believes that the White Council is dark and corrupt, he has a hatred of the Winter Sidth, knowledge of the internal politics of the White Court, knows Bob is with Harry (when not even the other Kemmlerites knew), has the chance to kill Ramirez, but instead throws him free from the Darkhallow.

    I'm saying he has a lot of overlap and knowledge with Harry.

    Kumori knows about Harry's magical items (naming them specifically when asking him to disarm himself), uses Japanese when casting spells (her name also means "cloudiness"), and has a more gentle nature than Cowl.

    She has some crossover with Molly, but she really only gets one solid appearance in the books so there's less evidence.



    Now, imagine Harry going through the books without any of the stuff we know Cowl or the Black Council did in the background.

    Harry isn't clued in to people like Victor Sells, the hexenwulfs, or the Darkhallow.

    The Winter Court doesn't know about the infiltration among them or others.

    Molly isn't discovered as a witch until some time later as the Fetches don't have the free run to leave Arctis Tor and alert Harry.

    Little Chicago isn't almost destroyed by Cowl, so Harry isn't forced into examining it again.

    Harry doesn't get the upper hand on the White Court politically.

    The White Council doesn't have the same kind of fighting against the Red Court with Black Council representatives that forces certain traitors within it to hold off their plans.

    I'm willing to bet there's a lot more that has to do with tipping the odds more into Harry's favor.

    Harry would be a different and possibly much darker person, and wouldn't have been there to stop some world changing events.

    So, Harry and Molly, at the end of the world, facing the inevitable apocalypse that would have resulted, and finally with the full knowledge of what is going to happen decide that the way to survive is to break laws of magic, and go back in time to stop it.

    So they orchestrate plans that would allow them to clue in people about the threats while trying to gain enough power themselves to fight off the oncoming apocalypse. They adopt disguises to allow their alternate selves to go on normally and with only a few interventions to clue them in or to prevent certain disasters.

    Overall, Cowl and the others do a lot of damage to people, but seem to hold back when it comes to directly hurting certain people or to hiding their plans.

    Yeah, it's popular theory, but i don't like it. Also, assuming that Cowl tells the truth during dialogues, it gives a counterargument to your theory.
    He says "I have wondered what makes the Wardens so afraid of you", If he is Harry 2.0, then he have no reason to wonder about it, because it's obvious if he is the same person. We can also assume, that he is a member of White Court to have an informations like that, and i think it would be difficult to him ih he has the same face as someone fairly known.

    For me, there is only one possible explanation: Cowl is Simon Petrovich, a.k.a. White Courst member who dies off-screen at the start of Summer Knight.

    Others assume that his Death Curse killed a lot of vampires on Archangel, but considering what powerhouse Cowl / Simon is, he could do that any other way.

    He also have suprisingly large presence in a text, even though he doesn't appear even once: almost every book he is referenced at least once, if he isn't - The Archangel is. Almost, as if author didn't want the reader to forget about his name...

    Also, food for thought: he was Justin Du Morne teacher, and as such, he would know about Bob - and obviously, Cowl knows about Bob existence in Dead Beat.

    At this point, it's the only explanation that would be satisfying for me.

    Asthariel on
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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Asthariel wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Asthariel wrote: »
    My reread of the series continues. As i have lost control over my life, i have read entire Proven Guily in 2 days.

    I think it may be my favourite book of the series - not only because it has smaller scale than epic Dead Beat which makes nice contrast, but also because it's the only book in the series that finished with a lot of questions unanswered so far. I would not be surprised if it turned out, that it's the most important book for the series plot overall.

    Spoilers for the entire series!
    The most obvious unanswered question is, what the hell really happened at Arctis Tor - we may guess, than Nemesis infected Denarian and others tried to free infected Lea, but so far, we still don't have clear answer.

    At the start of the book, Harry gets hit by grey Chrysler, even before he starts investigating anything - yeah, after reading Cold Days we may assume it was Ace, but it would be really boring answer, so i consider him a red herring.

    We still dont know who fixed a Little Chicago at the end.

    And the most interesting question - what was this all about about Fetches at Splattercon!!! ?

    We know that they were after Molly, but someone had to summon them. Harry realizes, that Madrigal Raith was an obvious fall guy, even though he had personaly nothing to do with entire plot - the problem is, that he was invited one year before, so someone was already planning this that long ago.

    When Scarecrow attacks Harry, Thomas and Madrigal, he killes Glau, Madrigal's assistant first, which Harry finds suspicious. He propably had something to do with this plot, and was killed so he wouldn't be interrogated.

    Who invited Madrigal to Splattercon!!!? Sandra Marling, minor character. There are 2 problems though:

    1. She didn;t touch Harry's hand, which, as we remeber, was also used as a plot point in Blood Rites.
    2. She is ALSO responsible for giving Molly an idea ofr using fear by mind control on her friends, which starts entire plot.

    Coincidence? I don't think so, and i will be highly surprised, it she won;t return in any future book.

    Main theory? One of the future books will be about time travel, Prisoner of Azkaban style (and i have to remind - time travel is directly sicussed in this book by Harry nad Bob!), and the story will be about revisiting Proven Guilty plot to find out, what it REALLY was all about.

    It is not a new theory, but i like it so much, that i just had to share it here.
    My theory is fairly similar
    Harry is Cowl and Molly is Kumori.

    Well, alternate history Harry and Molly.

    Cowl has connections specifically to He Who Walks Behind, has knowledge of the Darkhallow and hatred of Kemmler and his acolytes, he believes that the White Council is dark and corrupt, he has a hatred of the Winter Sidth, knowledge of the internal politics of the White Court, knows Bob is with Harry (when not even the other Kemmlerites knew), has the chance to kill Ramirez, but instead throws him free from the Darkhallow.

    I'm saying he has a lot of overlap and knowledge with Harry.

    Kumori knows about Harry's magical items (naming them specifically when asking him to disarm himself), uses Japanese when casting spells (her name also means "cloudiness"), and has a more gentle nature than Cowl.

    She has some crossover with Molly, but she really only gets one solid appearance in the books so there's less evidence.



    Now, imagine Harry going through the books without any of the stuff we know Cowl or the Black Council did in the background.

    Harry isn't clued in to people like Victor Sells, the hexenwulfs, or the Darkhallow.

    The Winter Court doesn't know about the infiltration among them or others.

    Molly isn't discovered as a witch until some time later as the Fetches don't have the free run to leave Arctis Tor and alert Harry.

    Little Chicago isn't almost destroyed by Cowl, so Harry isn't forced into examining it again.

    Harry doesn't get the upper hand on the White Court politically.

    The White Council doesn't have the same kind of fighting against the Red Court with Black Council representatives that forces certain traitors within it to hold off their plans.

    I'm willing to bet there's a lot more that has to do with tipping the odds more into Harry's favor.

    Harry would be a different and possibly much darker person, and wouldn't have been there to stop some world changing events.

    So, Harry and Molly, at the end of the world, facing the inevitable apocalypse that would have resulted, and finally with the full knowledge of what is going to happen decide that the way to survive is to break laws of magic, and go back in time to stop it.

    So they orchestrate plans that would allow them to clue in people about the threats while trying to gain enough power themselves to fight off the oncoming apocalypse. They adopt disguises to allow their alternate selves to go on normally and with only a few interventions to clue them in or to prevent certain disasters.

    Overall, Cowl and the others do a lot of damage to people, but seem to hold back when it comes to directly hurting certain people or to hiding their plans.

    Yeah, it's popular theory, but i don't like it. Also, assuming that Cowl tells the truth during dialogues, it gives a counterargument to your theory.
    He says "I have wondered what makes the Wardens so afraid of you", If he is Harry 2.0, then he have no reason to wonder about it, because it's obvious if he is the same person. We can also assume, that he is a member of White Court to have an informations like that, and i think it would be difficult to him ih he has the same face as someone fairly known.

    For me, there is only one possible explanation: Cowl is Simon Petrovich, a.k.a. White Courst member who dies off-screen at the start of Summer Knight.

    Others assume that his Death Curse killed a lot of vampires on Archangel, but considering what powerhouse Cowl / Simon is, he could do that any other way.

    He also have suprisingly large presence in a text, even though he doesn't appear even once: almost every book he is referenced at least once, if he isn't - The Archangel is. Almost, as if author didn't want the reader to forget about his name...

    Also, food for thought: he was Justin Du Morne teacher, and as such, he would know about Bob - and obviously, Cowl knows about Bob existence in Dead Beat.

    At this point, it's the only explanation that would be satisfying for me.
    Even Harry openly wonders why the Wardens are so afraid of him. He spends whole books just going along with the fact that the Wardens don't like him before he realizes pretty late into Proven Guilty that half think he's a dangerous lunatic who is subverting the system in order to betray them down the road and the other half think he's a hero.

    ElvenshaeShadowhope
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Asthariel wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Asthariel wrote: »
    My reread of the series continues. As i have lost control over my life, i have read entire Proven Guily in 2 days.

    I think it may be my favourite book of the series - not only because it has smaller scale than epic Dead Beat which makes nice contrast, but also because it's the only book in the series that finished with a lot of questions unanswered so far. I would not be surprised if it turned out, that it's the most important book for the series plot overall.

    Spoilers for the entire series!
    The most obvious unanswered question is, what the hell really happened at Arctis Tor - we may guess, than Nemesis infected Denarian and others tried to free infected Lea, but so far, we still don't have clear answer.

    At the start of the book, Harry gets hit by grey Chrysler, even before he starts investigating anything - yeah, after reading Cold Days we may assume it was Ace, but it would be really boring answer, so i consider him a red herring.

    We still dont know who fixed a Little Chicago at the end.

    And the most interesting question - what was this all about about Fetches at Splattercon!!! ?

    We know that they were after Molly, but someone had to summon them. Harry realizes, that Madrigal Raith was an obvious fall guy, even though he had personaly nothing to do with entire plot - the problem is, that he was invited one year before, so someone was already planning this that long ago.

    When Scarecrow attacks Harry, Thomas and Madrigal, he killes Glau, Madrigal's assistant first, which Harry finds suspicious. He propably had something to do with this plot, and was killed so he wouldn't be interrogated.

    Who invited Madrigal to Splattercon!!!? Sandra Marling, minor character. There are 2 problems though:

    1. She didn;t touch Harry's hand, which, as we remeber, was also used as a plot point in Blood Rites.
    2. She is ALSO responsible for giving Molly an idea ofr using fear by mind control on her friends, which starts entire plot.

    Coincidence? I don't think so, and i will be highly surprised, it she won;t return in any future book.

    Main theory? One of the future books will be about time travel, Prisoner of Azkaban style (and i have to remind - time travel is directly sicussed in this book by Harry nad Bob!), and the story will be about revisiting Proven Guilty plot to find out, what it REALLY was all about.

    It is not a new theory, but i like it so much, that i just had to share it here.
    My theory is fairly similar
    Harry is Cowl and Molly is Kumori.

    Well, alternate history Harry and Molly.

    Cowl has connections specifically to He Who Walks Behind, has knowledge of the Darkhallow and hatred of Kemmler and his acolytes, he believes that the White Council is dark and corrupt, he has a hatred of the Winter Sidth, knowledge of the internal politics of the White Court, knows Bob is with Harry (when not even the other Kemmlerites knew), has the chance to kill Ramirez, but instead throws him free from the Darkhallow.

    I'm saying he has a lot of overlap and knowledge with Harry.

    Kumori knows about Harry's magical items (naming them specifically when asking him to disarm himself), uses Japanese when casting spells (her name also means "cloudiness"), and has a more gentle nature than Cowl.

    She has some crossover with Molly, but she really only gets one solid appearance in the books so there's less evidence.



    Now, imagine Harry going through the books without any of the stuff we know Cowl or the Black Council did in the background.

    Harry isn't clued in to people like Victor Sells, the hexenwulfs, or the Darkhallow.

    The Winter Court doesn't know about the infiltration among them or others.

    Molly isn't discovered as a witch until some time later as the Fetches don't have the free run to leave Arctis Tor and alert Harry.

    Little Chicago isn't almost destroyed by Cowl, so Harry isn't forced into examining it again.

    Harry doesn't get the upper hand on the White Court politically.

    The White Council doesn't have the same kind of fighting against the Red Court with Black Council representatives that forces certain traitors within it to hold off their plans.

    I'm willing to bet there's a lot more that has to do with tipping the odds more into Harry's favor.

    Harry would be a different and possibly much darker person, and wouldn't have been there to stop some world changing events.

    So, Harry and Molly, at the end of the world, facing the inevitable apocalypse that would have resulted, and finally with the full knowledge of what is going to happen decide that the way to survive is to break laws of magic, and go back in time to stop it.

    So they orchestrate plans that would allow them to clue in people about the threats while trying to gain enough power themselves to fight off the oncoming apocalypse. They adopt disguises to allow their alternate selves to go on normally and with only a few interventions to clue them in or to prevent certain disasters.

    Overall, Cowl and the others do a lot of damage to people, but seem to hold back when it comes to directly hurting certain people or to hiding their plans.

    Yeah, it's popular theory, but i don't like it. Also, assuming that Cowl tells the truth during dialogues, it gives a counterargument to your theory.
    He says "I have wondered what makes the Wardens so afraid of you", If he is Harry 2.0, then he have no reason to wonder about it, because it's obvious if he is the same person. We can also assume, that he is a member of White Court to have an informations like that, and i think it would be difficult to him ih he has the same face as someone fairly known.

    For me, there is only one possible explanation: Cowl is Simon Petrovich, a.k.a. White Courst member who dies off-screen at the start of Summer Knight.

    Others assume that his Death Curse killed a lot of vampires on Archangel, but considering what powerhouse Cowl / Simon is, he could do that any other way.

    He also have suprisingly large presence in a text, even though he doesn't appear even once: almost every book he is referenced at least once, if he isn't - The Archangel is. Almost, as if author didn't want the reader to forget about his name...

    Also, food for thought: he was Justin Du Morne teacher, and as such, he would know about Bob - and obviously, Cowl knows about Bob existence in Dead Beat.

    At this point, it's the only explanation that would be satisfying for me.
    Even Harry openly wonders why the Wardens are so afraid of him. He spends whole books just going along with the fact that the Wardens don't like him before he realizes pretty late into Proven Guilty that half think he's a dangerous lunatic who is subverting the system in order to betray them down the road and the other half think he's a hero.
    Also, just in the realm of standard wizardry he's a heavyweight. His main weakness is that he's a brute when fighting (probably because he does pack such a puch finesse is rarely needed). But he's not a total brute. Little Chicago was a masterpiece of thaumaturgy. Hell, even his brute fighting is top class, to where Lea admits his evocation skill is at a rare level. The only difference in power between him and the Merlin is experience - give Harry another century of fighting stuff that goes bump in the night and he'd be extremely terrifying to oppose.

    Harry had the potential to be one of the strongest wizards on the council. And then he started tapping new power sources. The wardens are right to fear what he coould become.

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  • NogsNogs Crap, crap, mega crap. Registered User regular
    i still wanna know
    if that damn fae necklace/gem for traveling through the fae will ever live up to its supposed curse. it made it so his mother couldnt sleep. i wanna know what its done to harry

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Now imagine if
    his access to Bob, Lash jr, and Demonreach all became public knowledge.
    One spirit of intellect with centuries of knowledge that is already on the 'banned entities' list.
    One newbie spirit of intellect who may or may not have inherited the knowledge of a fallen angel.
    One semi-sentient supermax prison chock full of crazy evil things whose failsafe is an explosion somewhere between Krakatoa and Yellowstone going off.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    Elvenshae
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    So, some extra stuff. The finished manuscript for the next Dresden book is due Christmas, and if things go well we'll see it released next spring.

    HefflingJayricho
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Now imagine if
    his access to Bob, Lash jr, and Demonreach all became public knowledge.
    One spirit of intellect with centuries of knowledge that is already on the 'banned entities' list.
    One newbie spirit of intellect who may or may not have inherited the knowledge of a fallen angel.
    One semi-sentient supermax prison chock full of crazy evil things whose failsafe is an explosion somewhere between Krakatoa and Yellowstone going off.

    Some stuff Butcher has revealed about the Peace Talks
    There's a scene where Bonnie (Harry's new spirit of intellect) is helping Maggie make pancakes. Bonnie is surprised to learn that pancakes are inanimate.

    She knows a lot of information, but has no context for it.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Now imagine if
    his access to Bob, Lash jr, and Demonreach all became public knowledge.
    One spirit of intellect with centuries of knowledge that is already on the 'banned entities' list.
    One newbie spirit of intellect who may or may not have inherited the knowledge of a fallen angel.
    One semi-sentient supermax prison chock full of crazy evil things whose failsafe is an explosion somewhere between Krakatoa and Yellowstone going off.
    At a minimum, the Gatekeeper knows he bound Demonreach, and implied he knows what it is. Of course, he's also one of the members of the Council who trusts Harry anyways.

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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Now imagine if
    his access to Bob, Lash jr, and Demonreach all became public knowledge.
    One spirit of intellect with centuries of knowledge that is already on the 'banned entities' list.
    One newbie spirit of intellect who may or may not have inherited the knowledge of a fallen angel.
    One semi-sentient supermax prison chock full of crazy evil things whose failsafe is an explosion somewhere between Krakatoa and Yellowstone going off.
    At a minimum, the Gatekeeper knows he bound Demonreach, and implied he knows what it is. Of course, he's also one of the members of the Council who trusts Harry anyways.
    Ebenezar knows or at least super highly suspects. Wrote about it in his journals.

    KetBra
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Now imagine if
    his access to Bob, Lash jr, and Demonreach all became public knowledge.
    One spirit of intellect with centuries of knowledge that is already on the 'banned entities' list.
    One newbie spirit of intellect who may or may not have inherited the knowledge of a fallen angel.
    One semi-sentient supermax prison chock full of crazy evil things whose failsafe is an explosion somewhere between Krakatoa and Yellowstone going off.
    At a minimum, the Gatekeeper knows he bound Demonreach, and implied he knows what it is. Of course, he's also one of the members of the Council who trusts Harry anyways.
    Ebenezar knows or at least super highly suspects. Wrote about it in his journals.
    Probably was told by the Gatekeeper due to being the Blackstaff and related and all. Of course, he's also firmly in the allies group.

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  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    Has there ever been any official word on whether or not Harry is unusual in the wizarding world for having so many magical gadgets? He's got his bracelet, rings, and coat, all of which have saved his life plenty of times, plus his staff and blasting rod, plus the occasional potion and Little Chicago.

    I'd like to know if other wizards have similar things that we just don't see, or if there's some reason for Harry to have these things that nobody else gets.

    I can buy Molly only having been able to put together her wands, and Ramirez is younger, too, at least at first. But Luccio, Morgan, and a lot of the bad guys we've seen seem like they would really benefit from stuff similar to Harry's.

  • LochielLochiel Registered User regular
    I suspect that wizards are a paranoid lot who both make a habit of acquiring such magical tools, and of hiding them from other wizards. I suspect that if you're in a fight with a wizard and you haven't seen something new yet, then it's because they're setting you up to get hit with it.

    The world does seem awfully full of magical dohickies and whatdos.

    Elvenshae
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Tarantio wrote: »
    Has there ever been any official word on whether or not Harry is unusual in the wizarding world for having so many magical gadgets? He's got his bracelet, rings, and coat, all of which have saved his life plenty of times, plus his staff and blasting rod, plus the occasional potion and Little Chicago.

    I'd like to know if other wizards have similar things that we just don't see, or if there's some reason for Harry to have these things that nobody else gets.

    I can buy Molly only having been able to put together her wands, and Ramirez is younger, too, at least at first. But Luccio, Morgan, and a lot of the bad guys we've seen seem like they would really benefit from stuff similar to Harry's.

    Well, most of that list is standard wizard gear (foci for wards or fire magic, general purpose focus, warded clothing).

    Luccio actually does have artifacts she makes. Per Turn Coat I think?
    She made every Warden's sword, and the events of Dead Beat are why she couldn't make Harry one. Warden swords just chop through all wards and other defenses, which makes them fairly powerful artifacts. But since Luccio had to do the entire smithing process getting body swapped fucked up making them until she redevelops those muscles.

    I would say that the things Harry has made that are truly unique inventions are probably:
    Force rings - clever evocation magic basically (one of his specialties)
    Little Chicago - a masterpiece of thaumaturgy
    Antidote for Red Court saliva - Bob helped and it was half guesswork. I think it's stated offhand somewhere that it was quickly improved by the council once war broke out, so more of a "Harry needed it first" thing.

    I think Little Chicago is the only thing Harry has made that would actually be beyond the level of the average wizard who had a use for it. Some of what he does is definitely clever (the rings, which I don't know if he shared with the council but are probably low-level things anyone can copy, at least the early versions).

    But as far as being unusual in his total number of gadgets I think it's implied that most wizards eventually create a lot of tools. Harry does have Bob though, which is an unusual advantage in learning/creating new tricks.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    I'd guess that Harry's reliance on magical gadgets is mostly due to his being young and inexperienced (for a wizard).
    As a wizards get more experience, they might come to rely less on enchanted items and magic potions that need to be made in advance and more on just doing it with magic when the need arises.

    Not to say that there's no value in crafting magic items, doing so let's a wizard hone their craft in a way that is less likely to leave a crater, and can lead to new ways of thinking about and implementing magic effects.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Calica
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Eh, I think they use less simple ones and then make more complicated things for harder situations - again, warden swords for instance.

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    He mentions several times how he's kind of a magical bruiser, a lot of power but not much focus. That, and the fact that he gets into more trouble than even the Wardens, means that he has to have some kind of preparation in order to get out of tight situations because he's not terribly great on the fly (though that changes). So he has his rings, his belt buckle, potions, ect.

  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited November 2015
    see317 wrote: »
    I'd guess that Harry's reliance on magical gadgets is mostly due to his being young and inexperienced (for a wizard).
    As a wizards get more experience, they might come to rely less on enchanted items and magic potions that need to be made in advance and more on just doing it with magic when the need arises.

    Not to say that there's no value in crafting magic items, doing so let's a wizard hone their craft in a way that is less likely to leave a crater, and can lead to new ways of thinking about and implementing magic effects.

    That does not explain
    the Merlin's tactical rig in Changes. Or Ebenezer's robes (same book)

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    I'm pretty sure I remember reading something where Jim indicated that most of the top wizards have bargains and resources and secret allies up the wazoo. Harry is mostly unusual in that respect in how quickly he's gaining them and how ahead of the power curve they are. You can see hints that throughout - McCoy seems to be on good terms with Odin already, and called on a race of bird people to help in Changes, wields the Blackstaff, etc, and it goes almost without saying that the Gatekeeper probably has a huge number of allies and resources that can call upon. Listens-to-Wind, Ancient Mai, etc, they probably all have a ton of contacts, allies, secret power sources, artifacts, etc.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2015
    Agreed. Changes was where we saw Harry call upon, tap into, and otherwise put into play every resource at his disposal, and through ties to people like those in the Grey Council, they managed to wipe out the Red Court. I think that book put into perspective just how dangerous Harry and his people are when put to a single task. I have to imagine there was a definite "...waitwhat?" moment before the infighting began to fill the power vacuum.

    Similarly, I think the Apocalyptic Trilogy that's supposed to cap this series off will have similar chips being cashed in and IOU's called into play, but on a much larger scale.

    Considering what Harry brought to the table, I can't imagine what the entire council would bring to bear in a showdown like that.

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