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As cool as winter, as hot as summer and all Wizard [Harry Dresden]-Next book is not out!

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Posts

  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    Neal Stephenson
    ElvenshaekimeJayrichojdarksunHeirwebguy20BrodyHeffling
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    One of the better parts of the series was when Harry realized how he must look to the rest of the world in the, i want to say proven guilty, i think.
    All his exploits, his adventures, his deeds and the company he keeps.

    We know just how goofy, stupid and stupidly lucky he can be.
    But to those who were not there, or could not peek into his mind, he towers like a near godlike figure, a hero of myth, not a born lucky sucker who somehow manages to survive when he by all rights should not.

    There's a bit of bias in how we see Dresden because he's the one penning these journals. He sees himself as a decently skilled wizard whose gotten lucky a bunch, what he glosses over in most books is just how far he's willing to go when he gets desperate. Sue is a good example. Harry rolls up with her and is all 'Wooooo! She was right there, good thinking right?', everyone else has their jaws on the floor because what he's done is batshit insane, incredibly powerful, and borderline illegal. Or just from the first few books with all the property damange. Harry writes it from the standpoint of him being a dumbass and blowing up/burning down a building, with his and therefore our focus on dumbass. Doesn't change the fact that when things got ugly, Harry brought down a building.
    There is a degree of bias yes.
    But, again, the point is that Harry can make people very, very nervous.
    And when he realizes just how nervous he can make them, that scene was pretty awesome, because the difference in how he sees himself, and how others not close to him see him, is pretty huge.

    ShadowhopeSleep
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.

    ElvenshaePolaritieJayrichoDelmainjdarksunMoridin889ShadowhopeSleepBrodyZibblsnrt
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    Heir
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.

    DelmainElvenshaeJayrichoMoridin889ShadowhopeBrodyKamar
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    Are you talking legally or ethically?

    Ethically? Sure, absolutely. Entirely his responsibility.

    Legally? If you wish somebody to death real hard from a state away the law is not written in any way that is going to result in you going to jail.

    Dresen-verse still has that weird veneer of being set in a "normal" world where 99% of people don't know that magic/faeries/demons exist and the laws don't make any accommodation for them.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    ElvenshaejdarksunShadowhopeSleep
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    Are you talking legally or ethically?

    Ethically? Sure, absolutely. Entirely his responsibility.

    Legally? If you wish somebody to death real hard from a state away the law is not written in any way that is going to result in you going to jail.

    Dresen-verse still has that weird veneer of being set in a "normal" world where 99% of people don't know that magic/faeries/demons exist and the laws don't make any accommodation for them.
    If it can be shown that you, intentionally, caused the death, i'm pretty sure that it is legally murder and you can be sent to jail.
    Now, how you would prove someone caused a death by just thinkingvery hard, is another matter.

    Harry is in the clear, because his crimes can't be proven, but that does not mean he did not commit a crime.

    Harry DresdenHeir
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    Are you talking legally or ethically?

    Ethically? Sure, absolutely. Entirely his responsibility.

    Legally? If you wish somebody to death real hard from a state away the law is not written in any way that is going to result in you going to jail.

    Dresen-verse still has that weird veneer of being set in a "normal" world where 99% of people don't know that magic/faeries/demons exist and the laws don't make any accommodation for them.
    If it can be shown that you, intentionally, caused the death, i'm pretty sure that it is legally murder and you can be sent to jail.
    Now, how you would prove someone caused a death by just thinkingvery hard, is another matter.

    Harry is in the clear, because his crimes can't be proven, but that does not mean he did not commit a crime.

    The only ones who could do anything legally speaking would be the White Counsel and they're ok letting this go.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    I am treating the subject with all the seriousness it deserves. The subject being:
    If a wizard and a polka player raise a t-rex from the dead in order to prevent a necromancer from ascending to godhood, what laws have they broken?
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    Are you talking legally or ethically?

    Ethically? Sure, absolutely. Entirely his responsibility.

    Legally? If you wish somebody to death real hard from a state away the law is not written in any way that is going to result in you going to jail.

    Dresen-verse still has that weird veneer of being set in a "normal" world where 99% of people don't know that magic/faeries/demons exist and the laws don't make any accommodation for them.
    If it can be shown that you, intentionally, caused the death, i'm pretty sure that it is legally murder and you can be sent to jail.
    Now, how you would prove someone caused a death by just thinkingvery hard, is another matter.

    Harry is in the clear, because his crimes can't be proven, but that does not mean he did not commit a crime.

    The only ones who could do anything legally speaking would be the White Counsel and they're ok letting this go.

    Ignoring all the property damage of course. Maybe some weapons charges too, I think Murphy has looked the other way a few times on that sort of stuff.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    I am treating the subject with all the seriousness it deserves. The subject being:
    If a wizard and a polka player raise a t-rex from the dead in order to prevent a necromancer from ascending to godhood, what laws have they broken?
    So you have no interest in actually discussing and just want to be a goose.
    Fine, i'm out.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    I am treating the subject with all the seriousness it deserves. The subject being:
    If a wizard and a polka player raise a t-rex from the dead in order to prevent a necromancer from ascending to godhood, what laws have they broken?
    So you have no interest in actually discussing and just want to be a goose.
    Fine, i'm out.

    Or maybe I don't think legal discussions of the Dresden Files needs to get to debate death match levels of seriousness.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    It has been a bit of a rollercoaster to catch up on the last page or two, but from my perspective, Dave was being entirely facetious, and unless we want to tag in SiG or one of the other actual law talking folks, dealing with the realities of wizardry in a legal sense seems like it's going to run into a brick wall in short order anyways. It's like looking over the devastation that occurs during the Battle of New York in The Avengers; yeah, that clean up would have a massive price tag associated with it, but aside from being a plot point in Daredevil and later in Homecoming, it goes years without much more than a nod. Civil War deals with the loss of life primarily, rather than the costs associated with such shenanigans.

    I suppose Butcher could write a book or short story about some supernatural insurance claims adjuster who has to tell the museum that their coverage, extensive as it is, doesn't include damages incurred during a T-Rexurection, but given how long Peace Talks is taking, I'm not inclined to suggest with any real conviction that he add more to his plate until he finishes that fucking book. :-P

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    It has been a bit of a rollercoaster to catch up on the last page or two, but from my perspective, Dave was being entirely facetious, and unless we want to tag in SiG or one of the other actual law talking folks, dealing with the realities of wizardry in a legal sense seems like it's going to run into a brick wall in short order anyways. It's like looking over the devastation that occurs during the Battle of New York in The Avengers; yeah, that clean up would have a massive price tag associated with it, but aside from a nod in Daredevil and then making it a plot point in Homecoming, it goes years without much more than a nod. Civil War deals with the loss of life primarily, rather than the costs associated with such shenanigans.

    I suppose Butcher could write a book or short story about some supernatural insurance claims adjuster who has to tell the museum that their coverage, extensive as it is, doesn't include damages incurred during a T-Rexurection, but given how long Peace Talks is taking, I'm not inclined to suggest with any real conviction that he add more to his plate until he finishes that fucking book. :-P

    He's probably helping out Martin with Winds of Winter, so once that gets sorted Peace Talks will come right out.

    An insurance agent is having a very unfortunate discussion with Marcone about how they're going to have to raise his property insurance rates. Marcone eventually agrees and makes a note to trash something of Harry's, just on principle. Marcone then makes another note that he's going to have to sneak Harry a gift so that Harry has something that Marcone can trash.

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  • RingoRingo Stardust, Golden Caught in a Devil's BargainRegistered User regular
    "Honestly Dresden, it's like giving, and taking, candy from a baby."

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I know you probably meant borderline illegal by magical law, but it's amusing to imagine the argument that breaking into a museum and riding out on one of the exhibits (and destroying all sorts of shit in the process ) Is only borderline illegal.

    "I returned the bones when I was done with them. Really, i just commandeered them. And it was self defense when I desecrated all of those remains, plus technically they were already desecrated."

    "Oh my God, that building is on fire. "

    "THAT WASN'T MY FAULT."

    Removing the exhibit would be illegal, but I'm willing to bet that the law doesn't cover what happens if the exhibit removes itself. Otherwise yeah.

    "It was like that when I got here, and the building is still structurally sound so stop complaining."

    That's like arguing that stealing a car is totally fine, because you did not physically carry it.

    Sue was leaving the building anyway, Harry was just being a good samaritan and making sure she didn't cause too much trouble. It's like going to a picnic and keeping an eye on the one year old when it wanders off to try and put things in its mouth. Exactly like that.

    My memory fails me, was Sue animated before Harry got to it?
    Because i was pretty sure Harry was the one who animated it.

    He was. Pretty sure that Illinois doesn't have a lot of laws that cover necromancy though. Totally legal. Except for the B & E.
    If Harry animated Sue, then anything that happened afterwards was his fault.
    Yoiur argument is the worst kind of rules lawyering.
    But there is no rules against laser weapons in football, so i am totally allowed to incinerate opposing team to death.

    Harry removed the dinosaur exhibit from the museum, means of how he did it have no real bearing on that.

    There's a best kind of rules lawyering? I'm also not seeing how lasers wouldn't improve football, both American and regular. C'mon, lasers.
    Not sure how serious.
    Murder is murder, even if used by means not generally used, same for theft.
    Only escape Harry has is that nobody has evidence or means to prove his crimes.

    Are you talking legally or ethically?

    Ethically? Sure, absolutely. Entirely his responsibility.

    Legally? If you wish somebody to death real hard from a state away the law is not written in any way that is going to result in you going to jail.

    Dresen-verse still has that weird veneer of being set in a "normal" world where 99% of people don't know that magic/faeries/demons exist and the laws don't make any accommodation for them.
    If it can be shown that you, intentionally, caused the death, i'm pretty sure that it is legally murder and you can be sent to jail.
    Now, how you would prove someone caused a death by just thinkingvery hard, is another matter.

    Harry is in the clear, because his crimes can't be proven, but that does not mean he did not commit a crime.

    People have been convicted of murder before even when nobody can actually figure out how they did it. All that's needed is for someone to link Dresden's motives to a body and there's a case.

    The whole thing about people not seeing magic stuff properly, making up explanations more complicated than what actually happened, that can also apply to "Here we have a burnt corpse and the last person seen leaving the area was this guy carrying a wooden stick. Alright boys, let's go find Mr. Harry Potter."

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    There are existing laws that cover if non-law enforcement kills someone in the act of a crime; they are very specific, and vary from state to state. In Illinois, the use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to themselves or another, or during the commission of a felony.

    Pretty sure Dresden's ok there.

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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    But someone is going to sue him for damages sooner or later. Probably in the middle of a big magical problem.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I think Dresden mentions at one point that he was being sued by the Larry Fowler show for destroying all the electronics on set.

    It's kind of a throw-away line though and is never mentioned again as far as I can recall.

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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I think Dresden mentions at one point that he was being sued by the Larry Fowler show for destroying all the electronics on set.

    It's kind of a throw-away line though and is never mentioned again as far as I can recall.

    Well, it's more of a reoccurring gag than a throw-away line. It appears in a few of the books.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    An insurance agent is having a very unfortunate discussion with Marcone about how they're going to have to raise his property insurance rates. Marcone eventually agrees and makes a note to trash something of Harry's, just on principle. Marcone then makes another note that he's going to have to sneak Harry a gift so that Harry has something that Marcone can trash.

    Nah. Marcone arranges for the insurance agent's home to get infested with something very dark and dangerous while the insurance agent is on vacation, and that gives Harry a tip that there's something very dark and dangerous infests a certain home. The insurance agent comes home from vacation to find smoldering ruins where his dream home once was, and it turns out that "Act of Dresden" isn't explicitly covered in his policy.

    Dinosaurs were made up by the CIA to discourage time travel.
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    "The house was on fire, and it was sort of my fault..."

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    I think Dresden mentions at one point that he was being sued by the Larry Fowler show for destroying all the electronics on set.

    It's kind of a throw-away line though and is never mentioned again as far as I can recall.

    Well, it's more of a reoccurring gag than a throw-away line. It appears in a few of the books.

    I think that incident is part of how he developed his tech hex though.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Making the hex that amps up his anti tech stuff is a good idea anyway. So many security cameras and what not in an area best way to stay out of jail in a lot of cases is blind all the electronic witnesses before engaging big bads.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeah, I just mean that's where his inspiration for how to do it came from, since he had tried to turn it off for that.

    And yes, he gets a lot of mileage out of that hex.

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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    He was deliberately tech hexing in Fool Moon, before his second Larry Fowler appearance (where he blew up the studio electronics)

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    He was deliberately suppressing his magic so as not to blow up the studio while he was on the Larry Fowler show.

    But then Duke Ortega of the Red Court showed up on the show to challenge Harry to a duel, so Harry let all his pent-up magic get released in an effort to intimidate the Duke.

    It also happened to blow out all the electronics in the studio.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    They repeatedly note that wizards and technology don't mix very well, especially modern stuff. It comes up in big and little ways all over the place in the series. Just being near modern electronics can fuck with or ruin them, but actively using magic seems to be even rougher. Intentionally invoking magic as his developed hex does is just the next step up from that, but there's a reason his car is decades old and he comments on enjoying drive in movies (where the projector can be kept far enough to avoid interference, as I recall).

    If I didn't have a dozen books on the backlog, I'd say that I should start a long overdue re-read of the series, but I did finally start Brief Cases on a trip this week, despite owning it for, like, forever now.

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    One of the key plot points for a book is that critical information was being kept on storage media you needed to use with a computer, ensuring that all the magical types searching for it wouldn't be able get to the information without destroying it.

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  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    One of the key plot points for a book is that critical information was being kept on storage media you needed to use with a computer, ensuring that all the magical types searching for it wouldn't be able get to the information without destroying it.

    Specifically all the human magical types. A lot of magical beings exist just fine around tech.

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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    One of the key plot points for a book is that critical information was being kept on storage media you needed to use with a computer, ensuring that all the magical types searching for it wouldn't be able get to the information without destroying it.

    Specifically all the human magical types. A lot of magical beings exist just fine around tech.

    Yeah, there's a bit at the end of skin game that emphasizes that.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

    Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

    Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

    Pretty sure
    Molly
    has a cell phone? Am I misremembering that?

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

    Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

    Pretty sure
    Molly
    has a cell phone? Am I misremembering that?

    Full series spoilers
    After she becomes the Winter Lady, she uses a cell phone and it freaks Harry out mentally

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

    Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

    No, it’s just that the definition of “modern tech” adjusts over time. A long time ago, magical people curdled milk. Or prevented radios from working. Nowadays, 1950s cars work okayish, but modern computerized cars shit the bed around the magically talented.

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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Weren't there also indications that younger wizards are less incompatible with newer tech? Like, really old wizards had problems with milk curdling and physical devices. Dresden's generation is okay with mechanical stuff, but has issues with electronics.

    Like as the technology seems less magical to the wizard, it's less incompatible with magic, or something.

    Pretty sure
    Molly
    has a cell phone? Am I misremembering that?

    She also has a full runed up apartment from svartalfs that make sure tech doesn't break around magic.

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