As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

As cool as winter, as hot as summer[Harry Dresden]-Battle Grounds is out!

1246743

Posts

  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Demonreach
    It's Mab. She may not be the greatest schemer in the Dresdenverse but she's easily in contention. I suspect if the island can contain her, and knowing full well that Harry is contrarian and implusive sometimes, she has a contingency for that. Probably something that tortures the shit out of Molly while she's trapped in there.

    I think it was actually already mentioned up-thread
    The contingency was showing Harry the outer gates and how important she is to keeping the outsiders out of this reality.

    He can't imprison her because he needs her to keep doing her job because no one else is capable of it.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
    ElvenshaeMoridin889Mr Ray
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Started reading Skin Game again.
    And i'm getting kinda annoyed at Harry for trying weasel out of his deal with Mab, and even more for trying to threaten her with imprisonment for a second time.
    The suicide contract was actually smart, stick to the agreement while trying to get off on the rules, just going of and saying "nope, not doing it" is just annoying.
    The point of the whole "deal with the devil" is that, it is a deal, he knew who and what Mab is when making it.

    As for the threat to imprison Mab he makes at the beginning, fuck no.
    He's playing with endangering the continued existence of reality, sheesh dude, get of your high horse.

  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Started reading Skin Game again.
    And i'm getting kinda annoyed at Harry for trying weasel out of his deal with Mab, and even more for trying to threaten her with imprisonment for a second time.
    The suicide contract was actually smart, stick to the agreement while trying to get off on the rules, just going of and saying "nope, not doing it" is just annoying.
    The point of the whole "deal with the devil" is that, it is a deal, he knew who and what Mab is when making it.

    As for the threat to imprison Mab he makes at the beginning, fuck no.
    He's playing with endangering the continued existence of reality, sheesh dude, get of your high horse.

    But it's the kind of threat she can believe. Its not the first time he's threatened to burn the world down for personal reasons

  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Started reading Skin Game again.
    And i'm getting kinda annoyed at Harry for trying weasel out of his deal with Mab, and even more for trying to threaten her with imprisonment for a second time.
    The suicide contract was actually smart, stick to the agreement while trying to get off on the rules, just going of and saying "nope, not doing it" is just annoying.
    The point of the whole "deal with the devil" is that, it is a deal, he knew who and what Mab is when making it.

    As for the threat to imprison Mab he makes at the beginning, fuck no.
    He's playing with endangering the continued existence of reality, sheesh dude, get of your high horse.

    But it's the kind of threat she can believe. Its not the first time he's threatened to burn the world down for personal reasons

    Sure, but either it is an empty one, and she will know it is, or
    Harry is genuinely threatening to destroy the fucking universe out of personal reasons.
    Which is as petty as it fucking gets.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Started reading Skin Game again.
    And i'm getting kinda annoyed at Harry for trying weasel out of his deal with Mab, and even more for trying to threaten her with imprisonment for a second time.
    The suicide contract was actually smart, stick to the agreement while trying to get off on the rules, just going of and saying "nope, not doing it" is just annoying.
    The point of the whole "deal with the devil" is that, it is a deal, he knew who and what Mab is when making it.

    As for the threat to imprison Mab he makes at the beginning, fuck no.
    He's playing with endangering the continued existence of reality, sheesh dude, get of your high horse.

    But it's the kind of threat she can believe. Its not the first time he's threatened to burn the world down for personal reasons

    Sure, but either it is an empty one, and she will know it is, or
    Harry is genuinely threatening to destroy the fucking universe out of personal reasons.
    Which is as petty as it fucking gets.
    Everything Harry does is ultimately a personal reason. He protects Chicago because he loves the city and he feels responsible for putting it in danger. He eliminated the Red Court because they threatened his daughter. Harry would absolutely burn the universe to the ground personally if his daughter is ever killed.

    Harry Dresden is a self-rightoues prick that ultimately just wants everyone to leave everyone else alone to do their own thing. He just stumbled into doing the right thing early in the series, and has been riding the cascade of consequences ever since.

    He is a surprisingly deep character, and it's part of why I love this series.

    ElvenshaeNitsuaBlackDragon480Polaritiewebguy20Desktop HippieHefflingstopgap
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Started reading Skin Game again.
    And i'm getting kinda annoyed at Harry for trying weasel out of his deal with Mab, and even more for trying to threaten her with imprisonment for a second time.
    The suicide contract was actually smart, stick to the agreement while trying to get off on the rules, just going of and saying "nope, not doing it" is just annoying.
    The point of the whole "deal with the devil" is that, it is a deal, he knew who and what Mab is when making it.

    As for the threat to imprison Mab he makes at the beginning, fuck no.
    He's playing with endangering the continued existence of reality, sheesh dude, get of your high horse.

    But it's the kind of threat she can believe. Its not the first time he's threatened to burn the world down for personal reasons

    Sure, but either it is an empty one, and she will know it is, or
    Harry is genuinely threatening to destroy the fucking universe out of personal reasons.
    Which is as petty as it fucking gets.
    Everything Harry does is ultimately a personal reason. He protects Chicago because he loves the city and he feels responsible for putting it in danger. He eliminated the Red Court because they threatened his daughter. Harry would absolutely burn the universe to the ground personally if his daughter is ever killed.

    Harry Dresden is a self-rightoues prick that ultimately just wants everyone to leave everyone else alone to do their own thing. He just stumbled into doing the right thing early in the series, and has been riding the cascade of consequences ever since.

    He is a surprisingly deep character, and it's part of why I love this series.

    I'd argue that Harry is a very shallow character, but written at depth.

    ShadowhopeHeir
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    A super deep character who's entire personality is summarized in a few sentences :P

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    That's a hell of a negative interpretation of Harry you have there, Veevee. If he was that bad I don't think he'd let circumstances just carry him along to doing the right thing. Making world ending threats it one thing, but actually doing it is something else. Mostly he's pushed into too.

    Oh and backing out of a deal with the DEVIL is called being sane, folks...

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    kime
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I suspect Harry hasn't really thought through what he was threatening to do.
    It's the only really effective card he has to lean on, so he does, without really going through the domino effects it would have.

    Nyysjan on
    kime
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    That's a hell of a negative interpretation of Harry you have there, Veevee. If he was that bad I don't think he'd let circumstances just carry him along to doing the right thing. Making world ending threats it one thing, but actually doing it is something else. Mostly he's pushed into too.

    Oh and backing out of a deal with the DEVIL is called being sane, folks...

    I don't necessarily agree with that interpretation, but it's a fun, interesting one.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    That's a hell of a negative interpretation of Harry you have there, Veevee. If he was that bad I don't think he'd let circumstances just carry him along to doing the right thing. Making world ending threats it one thing, but actually doing it is something else. Mostly he's pushed into too.
    Oh and backing out of a deal with the DEVIL is called being sane, folks...

    I'd argue that, with this particular devil, adhering to the deal to the letter is sanity. Trying to break a deal with Mab?
    That's crazy. Of course, the best idea is not to make the deal in the first place, but that's not always an option.
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    I suspect Harry hasn't really thought through what he was threatening to do.
    It's the only really effective card he has to lean on, so he does, without really going through the domino effects it would have.
    Harry? Act without thinking? Never.
    Whenever has he ever done anything like that? [Why is there still no "sarcasm" tag?]

    He wouldn't be Dresden if he took the time to ponder the consequences of his actions before suffering through those consequences.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I would add that I think almost nothing in the Mab/Harry conversations/relationship should be taken at face value. Neither is really being completely honest with the other and I think both of them know that (though Harry is a bit slow sometimes.)

    ElvenshaeOptimusZedBlackDragon480CantideDesktop Hippie
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    I wonder if Bucher has drawn out a Gygaxian layout of the Dresden multiverse.
    Because as far as we know there are all of three 'planes' of existence. Earth, as in the Prime Material Plane. The Nevernever, which contains everything that's not Earth. And finally whatever is outside the walls, crazytown.

    I doubt a map would make any sense. Once you get to the Nevernever, you'd have a big blank question mark until you got to the outer walls. For all intents and purposes, the Nevernever is infinitely large, and the Outer Gates are on the edge of that infinite space.

    Supposedly outside the walls are other dimensions, timelines and realities. IIRC Bob says that if you go far enough outside the walls you'll find spider-man out there.

    Also some Cosmology bits from Butcher's AMA back in 2012
    Dudesan: Do The Dresden Files and The Codex Alera share the same metacosmology? Were the many migrations (such as the ancestors of the Alerans, the Marat, and the Canim) through the Nevernever? Should we worry about a Vord invasion of Earth? Bob mentioned that many worlds thought to be fictional do exist in some sense- I think his example is that "Spider-man is real... somewhere out there. What, you think this is the only world?"

    Jim: What kind of insane person would design a universe like that? Next you're going to come up with some kind of theory about how a single extended family bloodline runs through all of these obviously unrelated story universes, and how all of my central heroes actually belong to one family.
    Psssh. No one's going to buy that.

    Dudesan: What we've seen of the cosmology of The Dresden Files seems very Earth-centric. Is that because everything really does revolve around the Earth[1] , or because we're seeing only a tiny slice of a much bigger picture? Are there other planets in real-space inhabited by extraterrestrial sentient beings? If so, do they have their own analogues of wizards, fairies, gods, etc? Are supernatural things influenced by their belief as it is by those of humans? If so, to what extent do these "spheres of influence" overlap?

    Jim: Everything revolves around /this/ earth, in the Dresden stories. But not necessarily around all (or even a majority of) the other earths that exist in the continuum of possibility created by free will. Other, parallel realities have other worlds playing a more central role, and some of them have earth in a nice quiet backwater, peaceful, relatively conflict free, and boring.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    That's a hell of a negative interpretation of Harry you have there, Veevee. If he was that bad I don't think he'd let circumstances just carry him along to doing the right thing. Making world ending threats it one thing, but actually doing it is something else. Mostly he's pushed into too.
    Oh and backing out of a deal with the DEVIL is called being sane, folks...

    I'd argue that, with this particular devil, adhering to the deal to the letter is sanity. Trying to break a deal with Mab?
    That's crazy. Of course, the best idea is not to make the deal in the first place, but that's not always an option.
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    I suspect Harry hasn't really thought through what he was threatening to do.
    It's the only really effective card he has to lean on, so he does, without really going through the domino effects it would have.
    Harry? Act without thinking? Never.
    Whenever has he ever done anything like that? [Why is there still no "sarcasm" tag?]

    He wouldn't be Dresden if he took the time to ponder the consequences of his actions before suffering through those consequences.

    When the deal is you basically turn into a monster, it doesn't matter who you're making it with. You get out of it one way or another pretty much. You have almost nothing to lose and everything to gain. Hence why it went how it did.


    And can someone give me an example of Harry flying off the handle? He may make bad decisions on occasion or just ones X disagrees with, but for the life of me I can't think of one where he just reacted dumbly even though on the other hand there has to be at least 1 or 2 instances.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    A super deep character who's entire personality is summarized in a few sentences :P

    Sorry, Nyysjan had the right interpretation of my thought. I was writing that post just before heading out, so it was a little rushed. I meant a shallow character with realistic reasons for action that has the impression of being very deep. I interpret it as an example of just how well of a story Butcher can tell.

  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I re-listened to Skin Game

    Regarding Harry and his Boss
    Harry doesn't like her and doesn't want to be the Winter Knight. But I also think he bucks her so she will respect him. Remember after he threatens her in Cold Days. Her response "Finally, a Knight worth the trouble."
    After their little sparring match at the beginning of Skin Game she nods her head to him in a gesture that seems like a "fairly well done". Mab respects strength, will, defiance. She has no need of weaklings. Just.... don't insult her pride.

    Oh and I just realized about Hannah Ascher
    When they are dressing up for the party to recruit Anna Valmont. Dresden tells her to consider the condition of his back and that if she tries to stick a knife in it he will bury her with the others. I just realized that considering exactly how Hannah dies, that was foreshadowing
    .

    Rchanen on
    spool32 wrote:
    he pops this cobalt blue tetrahedron like he's thought of something. I'm like son, you know that's just a reskinned fireball, right?
    ElvenshaekimeShadowhopeDesktop HippieHeffling
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    That's a hell of a negative interpretation of Harry you have there, Veevee. If he was that bad I don't think he'd let circumstances just carry him along to doing the right thing. Making world ending threats it one thing, but actually doing it is something else. Mostly he's pushed into too.
    Oh and backing out of a deal with the DEVIL is called being sane, folks...

    I'd argue that, with this particular devil, adhering to the deal to the letter is sanity. Trying to break a deal with Mab?
    That's crazy. Of course, the best idea is not to make the deal in the first place, but that's not always an option.
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    I suspect Harry hasn't really thought through what he was threatening to do.
    It's the only really effective card he has to lean on, so he does, without really going through the domino effects it would have.
    Harry? Act without thinking? Never.
    Whenever has he ever done anything like that? [Why is there still no "sarcasm" tag?]

    He wouldn't be Dresden if he took the time to ponder the consequences of his actions before suffering through those consequences.

    When the deal is you basically turn into a monster, it doesn't matter who you're making it with. You get out of it one way or another pretty much. You have almost nothing to lose and everything to gain. Hence why it went how it did.


    And can someone give me an example of Harry flying off the handle? He may make bad decisions on occasion or just ones X disagrees with, but for the life of me I can't think of one where he just reacted dumbly even though on the other hand there has to be at least 1 or 2 instances.

    Where he acted dumbly?
    Like, maybe 40% of his interactions with Molly he later realizes how much of an idiot he was.
    The first time we meet Bianca.
    Trying to wave off his former apprentice rather than find out why she needed information from him.
    There's usually two or three situations per book where he later kicks himself for being an idiot.

    Where he flies of the handle?
    Losing Michael's sword.
    Vampire Ballroom Holocaust?

    RchanenDoodmannPolaritieDesktop Hippiestopgap
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    That's a hell of a negative interpretation of Harry you have there, Veevee. If he was that bad I don't think he'd let circumstances just carry him along to doing the right thing. Making world ending threats it one thing, but actually doing it is something else. Mostly he's pushed into too.
    Oh and backing out of a deal with the DEVIL is called being sane, folks...

    I'd argue that, with this particular devil, adhering to the deal to the letter is sanity. Trying to break a deal with Mab?
    That's crazy. Of course, the best idea is not to make the deal in the first place, but that's not always an option.
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    I suspect Harry hasn't really thought through what he was threatening to do.
    It's the only really effective card he has to lean on, so he does, without really going through the domino effects it would have.
    Harry? Act without thinking? Never.
    Whenever has he ever done anything like that? [Why is there still no "sarcasm" tag?]

    He wouldn't be Dresden if he took the time to ponder the consequences of his actions before suffering through those consequences.

    When the deal is you basically turn into a monster, it doesn't matter who you're making it with. You get out of it one way or another pretty much. You have almost nothing to lose and everything to gain. Hence why it went how it did.


    And can someone give me an example of Harry flying off the handle? He may make bad decisions on occasion or just ones X disagrees with, but for the life of me I can't think of one where he just reacted dumbly even though on the other hand there has to be at least 1 or 2 instances.

    Where he acted dumbly?
    Like, maybe 40% of his interactions with Molly he later realizes how much of an idiot he was.
    The first time we meet Bianca.
    Trying to wave off his former apprentice rather than find out why she needed information from him.
    There's usually two or three situations per book where he later kicks himself for being an idiot.

    Where he flies of the handle?
    Losing Michael's sword.
    Vampire Ballroom Holocaust?

    See also:
    Half the time Lash is messing with his head.

    Polaritie on
    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
    ElvenshaeRchanen
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    In the RPG, Harry has an aspect that reads "The place was on fire and it wasn't my fault".

    Which really tells you all you need to know about his mindset re: impulsiveness and personal responsibility.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    ElvenshaeDelmainjdarksunRchanenMazzyxMoridin889Desktop Hippie
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    That's pretty much the opening to
    Blood Rites
    and it WASN'T his fault.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    Jayricho
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    So, I've been listening to the series on audiobook for the first time, on my commute and road trips, almost exclusively. Also the occasional yard-mowing. I'm about 1/4 through Skin Game at the moment. Really enjoying the series, and especially the world building. I recently started playing in a Dungeon World game and am playing a wizard somewhat inspired by Harry's reliance on old fashioned detective work and thaumaturgy rather than big whammy spells. At least, that's my interpretation of Harry to the point I'm at. Seems like his big fireballs and force spells tend to amount to fuckall in the grand scheme and the plots tend to contrive a reason for him to be depleted and reliant upon his wits and/or friends by the time he confronts the big bad(s) of a given book.
    Anyway, I saw mentioned upthread that Jim Butcher has done several faqs and whatnot following each book, is there a place where one can find all of these easily? My google-fu is weak and I'm having trouble finding these on my own.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Yeah, generally the fireballs and force stuff comes up when hes dealing with grunts, and can just overpower them. Or because its still a good way to stall.

    Like most wizards, his trump card is time to prepare. He's constantly in over his head by terms of power. Just the stronger fae (not even queens) can beat him in a fair fight.

    Polaritie on
    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
    DelmainDr. Phibbs McAthey
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    So, I've been listening to the series on audiobook for the first time, on my commute and road trips, almost exclusively. Also the occasional yard-mowing. I'm about 1/4 through Skin Game at the moment. Really enjoying the series, and especially the world building. I recently started playing in a Dungeon World game and am playing a wizard somewhat inspired by Harry's reliance on old fashioned detective work and thaumaturgy rather than big whammy spells. At least, that's my interpretation of Harry to the point I'm at. Seems like his big fireballs and force spells tend to amount to fuckall in the grand scheme and the plots tend to contrive a reason for him to be depleted and reliant upon his wits and/or friends by the time he confronts the big bad(s) of a given book.
    Anyway, I saw mentioned upthread that Jim Butcher has done several faqs and whatnot following each book, is there a place where one can find all of these easily? My google-fu is weak and I'm having trouble finding these on my own.

    You need to sign up to his forum, but this thread has most/all of the stuff he's said.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    Dr. Phibbs McAtheyJayrichoRchanen
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So, I've been listening to the series on audiobook for the first time, on my commute and road trips, almost exclusively. Also the occasional yard-mowing. I'm about 1/4 through Skin Game at the moment. Really enjoying the series, and especially the world building. I recently started playing in a Dungeon World game and am playing a wizard somewhat inspired by Harry's reliance on old fashioned detective work and thaumaturgy rather than big whammy spells. At least, that's my interpretation of Harry to the point I'm at. Seems like his big fireballs and force spells tend to amount to fuckall in the grand scheme and the plots tend to contrive a reason for him to be depleted and reliant upon his wits and/or friends by the time he confronts the big bad(s) of a given book.
    Anyway, I saw mentioned upthread that Jim Butcher has done several faqs and whatnot following each book, is there a place where one can find all of these easily? My google-fu is weak and I'm having trouble finding these on my own.

    You need to sign up to his forum, but this thread has most/all of the stuff he's said.

    Yeah

    http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php

    Go there, sign up, look through the "Word of Jim" subforum. It'll only show up if you're registered and logged in. It's a compilation and transcript of almost every AMA, event, and speech he's given. Lots of stuff to go through. Lots. I suggest either searching or going through the compilation thread.

  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    kimeCantideJulius
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    GrpAhic DeiGn is My PAssIon
    JayrichoTofystedethEvilOtakuMazzyxDesktop Hippie
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.

    I figure it just rolls the abrahamic traditions together for that part.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
    DoodmannDedwrekkaHeirRchanenDesktop Hippie
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    If we wanted to get a collection together, I live about 20 minutes north of Jim and could leave an offering of Burger King and cases of Coke on his doorstep to help motivate his process.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    webguy20
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    It may come to that! I recently realized it's been THREE years since the last book when they used to come out yearly! He may start turning into Martin! We can't allow that! Whatever it takes!

    And I can just imagine the shitstorm if he started writing about other religions a lot. Happy to avoid that.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.
    Which would explain the White God and Uriel being among the most powerful beings around.
    But it does not really scale to "destroy galaxies with a thought" (and that's Uriel, a servant of WG), or explain idiosyncracies when compared to other gods and beings.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.
    Christianity, and especially Catholic versions of it, is huge in Chicago where the story is set. If the story were set in the middle east you'd see a lot bigger impact from the Islamic side of the abrahamic religions.

    And I don't buy that belief is what gives "gods" their power, or at least it's far from the whole picture. Remember, one of the Knights of the Cross is an Agnostic bordering on Atheist.

    HeirBlackDragon480Rchanen
  • Dr. Phibbs McAtheyDr. Phibbs McAthey Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    So, I've been listening to the series on audiobook for the first time, on my commute and road trips, almost exclusively. Also the occasional yard-mowing. I'm about 1/4 through Skin Game at the moment. Really enjoying the series, and especially the world building. I recently started playing in a Dungeon World game and am playing a wizard somewhat inspired by Harry's reliance on old fashioned detective work and thaumaturgy rather than big whammy spells. At least, that's my interpretation of Harry to the point I'm at. Seems like his big fireballs and force spells tend to amount to fuckall in the grand scheme and the plots tend to contrive a reason for him to be depleted and reliant upon his wits and/or friends by the time he confronts the big bad(s) of a given book.
    Anyway, I saw mentioned upthread that Jim Butcher has done several faqs and whatnot following each book, is there a place where one can find all of these easily? My google-fu is weak and I'm having trouble finding these on my own.

    You need to sign up to his forum, but this thread has most/all of the stuff he's said.

    Yeah

    http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php

    Go there, sign up, look through the "Word of Jim" subforum. It'll only show up if you're registered and logged in. It's a compilation and transcript of almost every AMA, event, and speech he's given. Lots of stuff to go through. Lots. I suggest either searching or going through the compilation thread.

    So, is that forum not sending an activation email for several hours after signing up a normal thing? Because I've been waiting on confirmation (and have told it to resend the activation email twice) for around 3 1/2 hours, even checking ye olde spam box. I mean, I can wait, it's just not what I've come to expect. Got it.

    Dr. Phibbs McAthey on
  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.
    Christianity, and especially Catholic versions of it, is huge in Chicago where the story is set. If the story were set in the middle east you'd see a lot bigger impact from the Islamic side of the abrahamic religions.

    And I don't buy that belief is what gives "gods" their power, or at least it's far from the whole picture. Remember, one of the Knights of the Cross is an Agnostic bordering on Atheist.
    Except the story is not just set in Chicago.
    It is also set in Nevernever, where one would expect atleast hearing mentions of heavy hitters like Brahma, Shiva, and/or Vishnu.
    Butcher has gone on record (i think) on not including other religions because he does not want to offend, but in doing so, he seemingly has created a universe where Christianity is true.

    If he wants to not have universe where christianity is the true religion, he needs to either scale back Uriel/WG, write about other heavy hitters (i vote Kali), or get more into detail about who/what WG is and how he fits in the rest of the cosmology.
    Or he could just come out and admit that Dresdenverse is set in Christian/Abrahamic universe.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    There are two instances of deities from decently sized pantheons in the Dresdenverse that I can come up with off the top of my head.
    Odin and Hades. Neither of them seems like a lightweight. Active worshiper numbers are probably fairly low in either case, though.

    It's entirely possible that the deities of other religions exist alongside those of the Abrahamic faiths, and we just never encounter them because they've got their own problems elsewhere.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
    DoodmannkimeRchanenMazzyxDesktop HippieHeffling
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.

    I figure it just rolls the abrahamic traditions together for that part.

    Its not just that.
    belief is all well and good, but even knowing about an entity gives it power.
    This is why fairies are still powerful and there's a whole hidden war going on to eliminate every last scrap of knowledge about certain nasties.

    Combine that with the fact one entity can have several mantles
    santa = odin = also a hunter guy?
    The WG is basically the dude literally everyone on Earth has heard of, with bonus multipliers for believers and double dipping religions ( all flavors of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, probably Zoroastrianism*).
    And even if it existed as some sort of creative force that did actually build the universe or whatever, it makes sense it'd get slotted into those mantles.

    *goddamn phone, you got that word right lb the first try but can't get the easy stuff?

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
    DoodmannDesktop Hippie
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    It may come to that! I recently realized it's been THREE years since the last book when they used to come out yearly! He may start turning into Martin! We can't allow that! Whatever it takes!

    And I can just imagine the shitstorm if he started writing about other religions a lot. Happy to avoid that.

    Well, he's also been writing another series (Cinder Spires) and several short stories (Cold Case, Day One, Jury Duty)

    Elvenshae
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.

    I figure it just rolls the abrahamic traditions together for that part.

    Its not just that.
    belief is all well and good, but even knowing about an entity gives it power.
    This is why fairies are still powerful and there's a whole hidden war going on to eliminate every last scrap of knowledge about certain nasties.

    Combine that with the fact one entity can have several mantles
    santa = odin = also a hunter guy?
    The WG is basically the dude literally everyone on Earth has heard of, with bonus multipliers for believers and double dipping religions ( all flavors of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, probably Zoroastrianism*).
    And even if it existed as some sort of creative force that did actually build the universe or whatever, it makes sense it'd get slotted into those mantles.

    *goddamn phone, you got that word right lb the first try but can't get the easy stuff?

    re: the asterisk

    the more uncommon and strange the word is, the more likely autocorrect is to guess it correctly (as long as it's a real word, of course)

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    While i love Dresden Files as a series, and find it one of the few long running series that just keep getting better by the book (Ghost Story was great, weird, but great).
    The series does have it's issues.
    Plots tend to be rather contrived in places (getting better as series goes on, but the first books were pretty horrible with the potions that just happened to be the ones Harry would need), and the technology issues seem sometimes inconsistent (and is there mainly because Butcher does not want to write around cellphones).

    World building is mostly awesome, but White God and Uriel seem out of place with the rest of the Dresdenverse (either it's a mystery left intentionally vague, a future plot point, or Christianity just happens to be the one (closest to) true religion).
    I'd actually prefer if he just came out and admitted that last one, instead of seemingly smuggling it in through the backdoor, i can read fiction based on (somewhat) Christian cosmology, i just get annoyed when it is assumed true as a baseline in a fantasy novel where other gods play a major part.

    And Harry, as entertaining as he is, can come of (at least to me) as pretty annoying at times.
    His sexism, constant uncommunication with people, lack of planning/preparing, and self martyrdom (Michael giving him the speech in Skin Game about hubrish was fucking awesome).

    As far as god goes.
    I thought they were pretty explicitly going with all religions are true but riffing off the American Gods rules where belief = power so the abrahamic "God" would be the most powerful being on the planet in modernity.

    Eh. Christianity isn't an order of magnitude bigger than the next two religions and that's assuming you consider it all one thing.
    Dresdenverse uses an mostly catholic view with the Angels being named and distinct beings and no way 100% or even 50% of "Christians" believe that.

    I'd be down for some variation of that where Harry runs into say a descendant of the prophet in the Sunni tradition who packs a huge spiritual wallop.
    Christianity, and especially Catholic versions of it, is huge in Chicago where the story is set. If the story were set in the middle east you'd see a lot bigger impact from the Islamic side of the abrahamic religions.

    And I don't buy that belief is what gives "gods" their power, or at least it's far from the whole picture. Remember, one of the Knights of the Cross is an Agnostic bordering on Atheist.

    Knights o the Cross
    The version of Christianity depicted in the book kinda skips over several major points and, for example, Michael's insistence that Harry is cool with God despite like never seeking any sacraments is a fairly liberal version of it. That version would be fine with Sasha not believing because of how he acts.

    I agree that I don't think it directly equates that believers equal power. It certainly doesn't seem to be current believers since Hades and Odin were both fairly powerful in modern times. There is a bit of a chicken and egg problem with the whole question of where the gods come from.
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    It's entirely possible that the deities of other religions exist alongside those of the Abrahamic faiths, and we just never encounter them because they've got their own problems elsewhere.

    It is, though the Knights at least feel they're responsible for covering the whole world. Granted the threats we see them face are their own special flavor of horrible bad guys.

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Plenty of stories only have XYZ and don't mention ABC and we're left to make whatever assumptions we choose. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe the WG is THE God, maybe he isn't. Maybe Shiva is out there, maybe not. It's not really the point of the story. It may be interesting if he goes into it, it may not. Like he says, though, is it worth the risk offending people?

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
    EvilOtaku
Sign In or Register to comment.