As cool as winter, as hot as summer[Harry Dresden]-Peace Talks out in July!

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    I thought Ghost Story was real slow, but I liked Cold Days and Skin Game.

    Heck I liked Peace Talks just fine, but it's very much Part 1 of 2.

    DevoutlyApatheticJayrichoElvenshaezepherin
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Peace talks is very good and it feels like a rolling crescendo. I am ok with the 2 part nature of it and battlegrounds if it is of the same quality as Peace talks.

    stopgap
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited July 20
    @DevoutlyApathetic might want to fix your spoiler tag there.

    I have some concerns about where things are going and I can agree about downer endings to things. I worry Butcher might be writing himself into a corner here with how things will shake out for some characters.

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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    one thing peace talks set up
    there was a lot of talk about how molly was changing and basically the titan coming in and kicking mab made me think..well it could be time for a change from Morganna/Mab to Molly/Mab
    Also, i'm still not sure if i buy into Justine being the Traitor. It feels too convenient.

    Nitsua
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Mab
    I have a feeling that the series is going to end with Molly being the Queen, but that feels a little ... meteoric, unless things happen in the Apocalyptic Trilogy..

    Book title quibbles
    Given the overall theme of the book and the fact that any peace talks in it were, at best, spectacularly ineffective, I'm starting to wonder if Guest Right wouldn't have fit better as a name.

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    edited July 20
    Full Book/Future
    I'm wondering what the actual sucker punch is for this. The Outsider press at the Gates and the Titan attack on Chicago are the distractions...what are they distracting us from? Is it really all an elaborate plot to destroy any Starborn or similar threats?

    EDIT: Also, if you had told me back around the time of Fool Moon that one of the chief cogs in humanity's salvation would be
    Gentleman John Marcone, via his rational invocation of Chicago's right to mutual defense under the Accords

    I would not have believed you.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited July 20
    Current book stuff
    I love how Marcone has been handled over the series really. Him hosting the summit and very clearly having markers to call in with half the heavy hitters. And Dresden has basically never been able to do a thing about him because he knows how to toe the line exactly.

    Pretty sure he's going to end the series running the whole city even more than he already does. He's the least likely of the major characters to die, easily.

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  • NitsuaNitsua Gloucester, VARegistered User regular
    What have you done? You’ve sealed his fate!

    Though, Butcher hasn’t been one to kill off characters, so who knows? They death count on the good guy side is pretty low, and one of them didn’t even count.

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    He doesn't kill characters on either side off often (aside from jerk-of-the-book one shots, of course), but it tends to be a fairly big deal when they do go down - and often something of a surprise, given that a bunch of them are pretty sudden when they happen. A lot of the character deaths have (supernatural-world) geopolitical consequences rather than just making somone sad/happy/vengeful.

    (I do prefer it to writers who seem to flip a coin every other chapter to see if someone dies or not..)

    NitsuaElvenshae
  • NitsuaNitsua Gloucester, VARegistered User regular
    Though, after the Red Court, saying he doesn’t kill enemies like crazy kinda goes out the window. Literally millions dead through that. Tons of ghouls, fae, and others dead too. No big characters too often though, that’s true. What drags there have been, though tragic and sometimes sudden, don’t feel unearned. They don’t just seem to happen for no reason at all or just because he can.

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  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Current/next book speculation:
    I think Murphy is setup to die soon, but I'm hoping the convenient setup of a good working relationship with the einherjar, and at least on Valkyrie in a book titled "Battle Grounds" means that she's going to rise. (And hopefully get to enjoy the spoils of Harry's lengthened life span (assuming best case).

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited July 23
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Current/next book speculation:
    I think Murphy is setup to die soon, but I'm hoping the convenient setup of a good working relationship with the einherjar, and at least on Valkyrie in a book titled "Battle Grounds" means that she's going to rise. (And hopefully get to enjoy the spoils of Harry's lengthened life span (assuming best case).
    Would she take that deal? I hadn't considered that outcome, and she already turned down Excalibur, so...

    Also it just occurred to me that Chekov's swords didn't do anything at all during the book. We got some quick development on Fidelachius and... that's it. Despite the very explicit foreshadowing with Sanya's flight getting delayed repeatedly.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Current/next book speculation:
    I think Murphy is setup to die soon, but I'm hoping the convenient setup of a good working relationship with the einherjar, and at least on Valkyrie in a book titled "Battle Grounds" means that she's going to rise. (And hopefully get to enjoy the spoils of Harry's lengthened life span (assuming best case).
    Would she take that deal? I hadn't considered that outcome, and she already turned down Excalibur, so...
    She turned down the Sword because she was still a cop and wouldn't be able to reconcile the requirements of the two positions.
    I'm not seeing anything that would prevent her from signing on as a Valkyrie.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Current/next book speculation:
    I think Murphy is setup to die soon, but I'm hoping the convenient setup of a good working relationship with the einherjar, and at least on Valkyrie in a book titled "Battle Grounds" means that she's going to rise. (And hopefully get to enjoy the spoils of Harry's lengthened life span (assuming best case).
    Would she take that deal? I hadn't considered that outcome, and she already turned down Excalibur, so...
    She turned down the Sword because she was still a cop and wouldn't be able to reconcile the requirements of the two positions.
    I'm not seeing anything that would prevent her from signing on as a Valkyrie.
    A fair point, though to nitpick the Valkyries and Einherjar are different things. But with multiple Valkyries in town then yeah, any badass heroic mortals might be getting offers if they die.

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Current/next book speculation:
    I think Murphy is setup to die soon, but I'm hoping the convenient setup of a good working relationship with the einherjar, and at least on Valkyrie in a book titled "Battle Grounds" means that she's going to rise. (And hopefully get to enjoy the spoils of Harry's lengthened life span (assuming best case).
    Would she take that deal? I hadn't considered that outcome, and she already turned down Excalibur, so...

    Also it just occurred to me that Chekov's swords didn't do anything at all during the book. We got some quick development on Fidelachius and... that's it. Despite the very explicit foreshadowing with Sanya's flight getting delayed repeatedly.

    Peace Talks, The Swords
    Sanya's plane got delayed seven times before he took the hint to stay in Chicago. Does God have a ban on texting? You'd think the massive disruptions to air traffic caused by those delays would be too much of a dick move for a benevolent diety

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    edited July 23
    Murph
    I dunno if Murph will take up one of the Swords at this point. Things have changed a lot for her since the previous job offer, and at least part of that involves dumping enough grey-area into her world that she might struggle with the Purity Of Purpose(tm) needed to really rock one of the things. Also there's the injury - I doubt Uriel's going to be making loans in that regard.

    I don't think she's going to get killed off anytime soon given she's started developing off in interesting directions as a kind of supernatural black ops/more-Marcone-adjacent-than-she'd-admit person at this point. Plus it would be really fridgey even for Butcher - I wouldn't want to be the one dealing with the fan blowback on that kind of decision.

    As to the valkyries and einherjaren, there's the additional fun possibility that she'll end up on Odin's radar personally shortly into Battle Ground. Nothing could go wrong with being noticed by multiple parts of that mythological world, right?

    Chekov's cutlery
    I suspect the fact that they weren't fired - well, drawn - in the third act despite the chapter with Sanya and Butters is an artifact of this being a single book that got reconfigured into a pair of books. I suspect they'll show up in the climax of the overall "case" in September.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Current/next book speculation:
    I think Murphy is setup to die soon, but I'm hoping the convenient setup of a good working relationship with the einherjar, and at least on Valkyrie in a book titled "Battle Grounds" means that she's going to rise. (And hopefully get to enjoy the spoils of Harry's lengthened life span (assuming best case).
    Would she take that deal? I hadn't considered that outcome, and she already turned down Excalibur, so...

    Also it just occurred to me that Chekov's swords didn't do anything at all during the book. We got some quick development on Fidelachius and... that's it. Despite the very explicit foreshadowing with Sanya's flight getting delayed repeatedly.

    Peace Talks, The Swords
    Sanya's plane got delayed seven times before he took the hint to stay in Chicago. Does God have a ban on texting? You'd think the massive disruptions to air traffic caused by those delays would be too much of a dick move for a benevolent diety

    We know that can God communicates in mysterious ways in the books.
    Michael says that God mostly talked empathically: feelings of confidence when he's where he's supposed to be, odd inclinations to be at certain places, occasionally having an angel knock on his front door, etc. The kind of thing I always heard is God talking to us.
    For Butters, the mission assignments are much more straight forward and in a language he understands. He literally sees MMO quest markers above peoples heads (or, at least he did at first, that may have changed).
    For Sanya, self proclaimed agnostic/atheist and wielder of one of the Swords, God has to be a little clearer to make sure that he knows this isn't just ordinary mortal fuckery, this is divine fuckery making sure he is where he's needed. So, he's delayed 7 times.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Also, re: swords
    It’s not unusual for a flight to be repeatedly delayed and then cancelled. Happens without even affecting other traffic at the airport all the time.

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  • mjn6172mjn6172 King of the Lurkers, also secretly a Freemason (shhhhh.) Registered User regular
    I have a question, and maybe I just missed something, but here it is (End of book spoilers.)
    Is there any reason other than stupidity that Harry didn't explain the full plan regarding Thomas to Lara? Lara seems to think that they're going to island where Harry will use his magic to fix Thomas, and goes insane when Harry puts him in prison/suspended animation instead. That should never have been a fight. Harry could have just told her "Hey, when we get to the island I can put him in suspended animation where no one can track him or harm him so we have a little time to figure out how to make him better." Instead we get a crazy, stupid, and unnecessary fight scene and Harry makes another problem for himself.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    mjn6172 wrote: »
    I have a question, and maybe I just missed something, but here it is (End of book spoilers.)
    Is there any reason other than stupidity that Harry didn't explain the full plan regarding Thomas to Lara? Lara seems to think that they're going to island where Harry will use his magic to fix Thomas, and goes insane when Harry puts him in prison/suspended animation instead. That should never have been a fight. Harry could have just told her "Hey, when we get to the island I can put him in suspended animation where no one can track him or harm him so we have a little time to figure out how to make him better." Instead we get a crazy, stupid, and unnecessary fight scene and Harry makes another problem for himself.

    Not sure if that was always the plan:
    He needed to be put into suspended animation because otherwise his demon was going to eat him. They didn't know that until they saw how bad he was. If he had been healthier then I think just chilling on the island would be enough to screw up folks trying to find him.

    Still doesn't explain the situation when Lara knows how Harry feels about Thomas and that Harry is pretty guileless about that sort of thing.

    Pailryder
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    mjn6172 wrote: »
    I have a question, and maybe I just missed something, but here it is (End of book spoilers.)
    Is there any reason other than stupidity that Harry didn't explain the full plan regarding Thomas to Lara? Lara seems to think that they're going to island where Harry will use his magic to fix Thomas, and goes insane when Harry puts him in prison/suspended animation instead. That should never have been a fight. Harry could have just told her "Hey, when we get to the island I can put him in suspended animation where no one can track him or harm him so we have a little time to figure out how to make him better." Instead we get a crazy, stupid, and unnecessary fight scene and Harry makes another problem for himself.

    Yeah, I'm generally chalking that up to bad writing.
    Major upgrade to his connection to the island in that fight too. Previously, Intellectus was just information about the island, now it's got command and control functionality. Dunno if he's doing this via Alfred or if Butcher just decided to go for a power upgrade.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Intellectus
    Harry's had control over the physical island itself for some time. He used it in the battle against Peabody's proxies while he had Morgan stowed there, and that was years of practice ago in story terms.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Intellectus
    IIRC, that was mostly limited to dehydrating the soil so those specific trees collapse. It wasn't like full on Poison Ivy control of plants and dirt.
    So, still an upgrade, but not really one that came out of nowhere.

    And, it'd hardly be the first time Butcher decided it was time for Dresden to level up.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Powerleveling
    One thing I've enjoyed about the series is the fact that people beefing up their supernatural muscles generally makes sense. Most of the recurring characters are established as smart or smart-adjacent and pretty conscientious about "hey, improving this particular thing helps me Not Die," and when you mix that with the assumption that they've been Doing Things for the year-ish between most of the cases, it just makes sense that people are going to be steadily picking up tricks. Changes-but-before-the-deal Harry is pretty goddamned scary compared to Storm Front Harry, but the transition didn't feel abrupt at all.

    Butters probably wins in that department, given the results of his having a few months' Q&A with Bob...

    Chronology of said powerleveling
    Butcher's got a rough timeline up on his site. About four years pass between Harry punching Demonreach in the nose and Peace Talks, but he spends one of those years out of commission due to a case of the deads, and there's a little over a year between his return and Peace Talks. Given the stuff he learned about the island I'd assume he'd be really motivated to learn what he can do with it. I imagine someone who's been around the block as often as any surviving DF character has by now would pick up quote a bit over that kind of timespan.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    edited July 29
    So I'm reading Brief Cases, and I have to say that Peace Talks is just not a good book. The difference in quality between the two is just huge.

    e: Homophones!

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited July 28
    It seems pretty accepted that Peace Talks is not up to Butcher's normal standards of writing, I'm wondering how much of that is just him getting his feet wet again after not being able to write in his own space for so many years and how much of it is realizing halfway through that he's got too much stuff that needs to go in for it to be a single book, and his editor and publishers saying "sure, make it two books" while trying not to make the little cash register noises over the phone.

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    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

    According to Butcher, it was more like 1.3 books. He said after the split, he had to add about a third to each book.

  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

    According to Butcher, it was more like 1.3 books. He said after the split, he had to add about a third to each book.

    Feels like it would have been a much smarter decision to publish a long book. We've been waiting 6 years -- nobody would have complained, LOL.

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  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

    According to Butcher, it was more like 1.3 books. He said after the split, he had to add about a third to each book.

    Feels like it would have been a much smarter decision to publish a long book. We've been waiting 6 years -- nobody would have complained, LOL.

    And I wouldn’t be waiting until September to finish the book I started reading in July.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

    According to Butcher, it was more like 1.3 books. He said after the split, he had to add about a third to each book.

    Feels like it would have been a much smarter decision to publish a long book. We've been waiting 6 years -- nobody would have complained, LOL.
    This is the internet people would have complained.

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

    According to Butcher, it was more like 1.3 books. He said after the split, he had to add about a third to each book.

    Feels like it would have been a much smarter decision to publish a long book. We've been waiting 6 years -- nobody would have complained, LOL.
    This is the internet people would have complained.

    It's practically rule 35. Rule 35: it's the internet people always complain.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Yeah, I blame "crap, I need to turn 1.7 books into 2.0 books."

    Butcher's good at self-contained stories, but part-one-of-two novels aren't those by definition.

    According to Butcher, it was more like 1.3 books. He said after the split, he had to add about a third to each book.

    Feels like it would have been a much smarter decision to publish a long book. We've been waiting 6 years -- nobody would have complained, LOL.
    This is the internet people would have complained.

    It's practically rule 35. Rule 35: it's the internet people always complain.

    People are complaining because he did it this way, so might have well done it the way that made more sense

    ElvenshaeBlackDragon480
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited July 29
    Re:swords/Chekov's gun:
    It seemed relatively obvious that Butters' new version of the sword is literally designed to defeat the armor of the Last Titan. They make a big deal out of how much more powerful the sword is against monsters, and then another big deal is made about her celestial bronze armor and how normal weapons can't hurt it. Felt like an obvious lead. I suppose the only question is how does one get the Knights and Ethniu in the same place without them simply getting squished.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited July 29
    Re:swords/Chekov's gun:
    It seemed relatively obvious that Butters' new version of the sword is literally designed to defeat the armor of the Last Titan. They make a big deal out of how much more powerful the sword is against monsters, and then another big deal is made about her celestial bronze armor and how normal weapons can't hurt it. Felt like an obvious lead. I suppose the only question is how does one get the Knights and Ethniu in the same place without them simply getting squished.
    Counterpoint: It may not matter if Harry seals her. Also there's some other plausible uses for that new property of the sword.

    Although I'm also not sure if that's a fakeout or not, and I have no idea what the placard is supposed to do.

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  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Re:swords/Chekov's gun:
    It seemed relatively obvious that Butters' new version of the sword is literally designed to defeat the armor of the Last Titan. They make a big deal out of how much more powerful the sword is against monsters, and then another big deal is made about her celestial bronze armor and how normal weapons can't hurt it. Felt like an obvious lead. I suppose the only question is how does one get the Knights and Ethniu in the same place without them simply getting squished.
    Counterpoint: It may not matter if Harry seals her. Also there's some other plausible uses for that new property of the sword.

    Although I'm also not sure if that's a fakeout or not, and I have no idea what the placard is supposed to do.
    I think it'll counter the Eye of Balor somehow

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    edited July 29
    imagine
    butters stabbing harry with the sword but it goes through and stabs someone else behind him.
    i'm still of the opinion the biggest issue was that the publisher said REJOICE TWO BOOKS THIS YEAR and set me up for disappointment. This was a small book compared to the last few and the quality was not there. So we really got 1/3rd of a book.

    Pailryder on
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    Think I'm going to just try and forget everything I think/feel about Peace Talks. Then come September, I'll re-read it like a day or two before Battle Grounds comes out and then go directly into it and just treat it as one larger Dresden files book. Which really I should have just done in the first place. But who am I kidding, I couldn't even stop myself from reading the first six preview chapters as they were dropped, I was never gonna wait till September for the whole thing.

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  • stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    I really enjoyed peace talks, it felt very good to be part of the Dresden verse again. I do agree with those who felt that it was too empty, I felt there was a lot of repetition of previous descriptions in previous books that were used almost as padding. I love getting to see the characters interact again oh, and I am very excited for the second half of the book which frankly from the pacing feels like they should be read as one.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Fidelacchius
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Counterpoint: It may not matter if Harry seals her. Also there's some other plausible uses for that new property of the sword.

    Although I'm also not sure if that's a fakeout or not, and I have no idea what the placard is supposed to do.
    I'm curious as to what will happen if a Deniarian gets tagged with the Lightsaber of the Cross - specifically, if it might free the host, or if they still have to choose to rid themselves of the Fallen. (Also if it depends on who's in the driver's seat for any given Denarian.)

    Also, if it can free Thomas of his Hunger I expect considerable angst from Harry given the implications that could have had for certain Red Court-adjacent people, because if there's one thing we've been short of in this series it's Emo Harry, right?

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