As cool as winter, as hot as summer[Harry Dresden]-Battle Grounds is out!

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    jimbutcherauthor AMA Author Jim Butcher 284 points 16 days ago I'm Deceased Silver

    Wow, really? I thought it was obvious.

    Both of Bob's parents have appeared in the Dresden Files. :)

    Yeah, no, not obvious.

    Oh it's totally obvious:
    Bob's parents are (ghost) Molly and Harry, from when Harry becomes Cowl but doesn't 'arrive' until Harry becomes Kemmler.

    Bonea and Maggie become the first Archive when Harry becomes OG Merlin and builds Demonreach, but he gets bushwhacked by Summercourt Murphy/Nimue and sent forward in time again, where he sits out fighting himself as Kemmler, annoys the Gatekeeper to no end, and pals around with Ebenezer McCoy, all under the guise of "Simon Petrovovich". His wizard's lair is called Archangel because it's the opposite of Demonreach: it's where he imprisons Uriel and company.

    Not convoluted at all!
    Chances it's Nicodemus and Margaret?
    I mean, Harry's already got one half brother, may as well get him a second.

    Not very likely.
    Bob worked with Kemmler for a long time. Maybe it's Merlin and somebody else. (I still figure the British voice in Demonreach is Merlin. The first Merlin.)

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    jimbutcherauthor AMA Author Jim Butcher 284 points 16 days ago I'm Deceased Silver

    Wow, really? I thought it was obvious.

    Both of Bob's parents have appeared in the Dresden Files. :)

    Yeah, no, not obvious.

    Oh it's totally obvious:
    Bob's parents are (ghost) Molly and Harry, from when Harry becomes Cowl but doesn't 'arrive' until Harry becomes Kemmler.

    Bonea and Maggie become the first Archive when Harry becomes OG Merlin and builds Demonreach, but he gets bushwhacked by Summercourt Murphy/Nimue and sent forward in time again, where he sits out fighting himself as Kemmler, annoys the Gatekeeper to no end, and pals around with Ebenezer McCoy, all under the guise of "Simon Petrovovich". His wizard's lair is called Archangel because it's the opposite of Demonreach: it's where he imprisons Uriel and company.

    Not convoluted at all!
    Chances it's Nicodemus and Margaret?
    I mean, Harry's already got one half brother, may as well get him a second.

    Not very likely.
    Bob worked with Kemmler for a long time. Maybe it's Merlin and somebody else. (I still figure the British voice in Demonreach is Merlin. The first Merlin.)
    One of the places that Merlin ended up in the stories was in a crystal cave.

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    jimbutcherauthor AMA Author Jim Butcher 284 points 16 days ago I'm Deceased Silver

    Wow, really? I thought it was obvious.

    Both of Bob's parents have appeared in the Dresden Files. :)

    Yeah, no, not obvious.

    Oh it's totally obvious:
    Bob's parents are (ghost) Molly and Harry, from when Harry becomes Cowl but doesn't 'arrive' until Harry becomes Kemmler.

    Bonea and Maggie become the first Archive when Harry becomes OG Merlin and builds Demonreach, but he gets bushwhacked by Summercourt Murphy/Nimue and sent forward in time again, where he sits out fighting himself as Kemmler, annoys the Gatekeeper to no end, and pals around with Ebenezer McCoy, all under the guise of "Simon Petrovovich". His wizard's lair is called Archangel because it's the opposite of Demonreach: it's where he imprisons Uriel and company.

    Not convoluted at all!
    Chances it's Nicodemus and Margaret?
    I mean, Harry's already got one half brother, may as well get him a second.

    Not very likely.
    Bob worked with Kemmler for a long time. Maybe it's Merlin and somebody else. (I still figure the British voice in Demonreach is Merlin. The first Merlin.)

    What if...

    (Peace Talks)
    What if Thomas wasn't the first Demonreach "resident" put there for suspended animation reasons? Might Merlin have placed himself there as a "break glass in case of apocalypse" contingency? It would explain why he "needs to be there." And being forced to re-live his sins with blinding clarity would make anyone salty. (Especially if he is also time-traveling Harry.)

  • CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    re Bob's parentage:
    Given that angels are meant to have Intellectus of the universe, and parent's knowledge is said to be passed to the spirit of intellect, I doubt Bob has a fallen as one of his parents. Harry would never have a question he couldn't answer. Bonnie is going to be hella powerful once she matures, and keeping with Harry's contined power creep. Even his assistant is levelled up.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Been reading Fool's Moon after stopping years ago. It was pretty slow and plodding in the beginning, but when it gets to Act 2 of the book it just goes and goes.

    Just got to
    the garage rescue where the agents are revealed to be hexenwulf.

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    During my most recent re-read of the series, I decided that Fool Moon was really not quite as bad as I remembered. (Storm Front was still pretty rough, though.)

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    During my most recent re-read of the series, I decided that Fool Moon was really not quite as bad as I remembered. (Storm Front was still pretty rough, though.)

    My main issue with Fools Moon has always been that it just felt like, "Storm Front, but this time with werewolves!"

    Same character beats as book 1, really. If it weren't for introducing important characters, you could just skip it on rereads.

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    Hexenwolfen and the Loup-Garou attack get referenced quite a few times throughout the series. Other than that I don't really feel you need anything else from that book, Dresden introduces Billy and the Werewolves well enough in every later appearance.

    Oh wait, does Fool Moon have the run-in with Bianca or is that Storm Front?

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  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    Tbh I always felt that the series hits its stride with Grave Peril, and that should probably be where you introduce new readers to the series. You get the introduction of Knights of the Cross, the Vampire Courts, and the Fey (plus opening Ways to the Nevernever); you get a large chunk of the serious recurring characters (Michael and his family, Thomas and Justine, the Leanansidhe); and it sets up several plot lines and villains that carry through most of the rest of the books. Plus his writing is much improved compared to the first two books, and he has a better sense of the characters.

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Hexenwolfen and the Loup-Garou attack get referenced quite a few times throughout the series. Other than that I don't really feel you need anything else from that book, Dresden introduces Billy and the Werewolves well enough in every later appearance.

    Oh wait, does Fool Moon have the run-in with Bianca or is that Storm Front?

    Bianca was introduced in Storm Front. Look, Fool Moon is by no means my favorite. For pretty much every previous re-read, I came away thinking that at least now the interesting books were about to start. This time was different. I don't know. We get a better sense of why Marcone is where he is. (Though his preternatural knifesmanship strains credulity.) The Alphas are silly, but there's some good stuff setting up Billy and Georgia. Harry experiences genuine consequences for the first time. (His "apprentice" gets killed, along with a station full of cops.) The final confrontation with the FBI is pretty good, including a legitimately disturbing personality shift when Harry wears the belt. Plus the Susan relationship being built up makes what happens in Grave Peril that much worse.

    It has a lot of dumb stuff, too. Potions, and Murph, and Tera, and whatnot. It isn't a literary masterpiece. All I'm saying is it was better than I had previously given it credit for. In my opinion.

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  • CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    I typically reread starting from Summer Knight as probably the best of the early series, but I started again from Storm Front. Things are rough til Grave Peril for sure.

    "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Not like the books are that big, so while you can skip ahead, as pointed out there's some good stuff sprinkled in the so so of the beginning. Probably best to tell new people to tough it out or only skip if they really hate it. But then if they do probably wouldn't like the rest anyway. On re-read if you know the beats it's a different story.

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Almost through Cold Days in my re read for the new books, so I haven't read any posts here, but just wanted to say that Harry's little monologue on homosexuality and sex is a little out of left field and kind of off putting.

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Almost through Cold Days in my re read for the new books, so I haven't read any posts here, but just wanted to say that Harry's little monologue on homosexuality and sex is a little out of left field and kind of off putting.

    It is this giant non sequitur.

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    On the eve of Battle Ground, the following occurs to me:

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but
    we haven't seen the Leanansidhe since Molly ascended in Cold Days. Was she even at Harry's party? I don't think so. That strikes me as a conspicuous absence. The coming fights seem ideally suited for her particular brand of bloodlust. Of course, the last time she was sidelined for several books stemmed from Outsider problems. One wonders if there is something there.

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited September 29
    On the eve of Battle Ground, the following occurs to me:

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but
    we haven't seen the Leanansidhe since Molly ascended in Cold Days. Was she even at Harry's party? I don't think so. That strikes me as a conspicuous absence. The coming fights seem ideally suited for her particular brand of bloodlust. Of course, the last time she was sidelined for several books stemmed from Outsider problems. One wonders if there is something there.

    Minor Battle Ground spoilers:
    She’s referenced as being involved in the battle, but doesn’t make an in-person appearance.



    Full book Battle Ground spoilers (though I’ll try not to name names):
    Well, that happened.

    I’ll say that it’s a better book that Peace Talks. I’m a little disappointed in some of the characters killed. There’s a pretty major one that I won’t spoiler, but I think that that one was foreseen by plenty of people, and it’s actually some of the minor character deaths that annoy me more. There’s also two major reveals about characters that I appreciated - a lot of people expected one of the two reveals, but while I’ve seen the other one suggested for a long time I haven’t seen it ascend to the point of “oh yes, that’s totally what happened.”

    The epilogue chapters were great. I appreciated that after the major threats were dealt with, there was plenty of “so, what now?” And I got a kick out of just about everything in the epilogue involved Lara and Molly. It seems to set the next book pretty explicitly as being One Year Later, and for reasons obvious to anyone who has read the last few chapters of Battle Ground I expect it to involve the White Court pretty heavily.


    Finally, FWIW, the Christmas short story that takes place after Battle Ground is included as well, at least in the Kindle edition.

    Shadowhope on
    People on the Internet are more discourteous than in the real world because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
  • JayrichoJayricho Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Amazon apparently has an issue with stocking the book and don’t know when they’ll be able to ship out my pre-order. Ugh.

  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    So I went and looked up spoilers for this because I'm doing this as a relisten and I won't catch up via audiobook until late October best.
    Jim wasn't lying when he said he felt it was his job to torture Harry was he?

    Biscuits 3:16 "food Jesus is dead and you killed him"
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  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    Yep, I got that delay email, too.

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited September 29
    So I went and looked up spoilers for this because I'm doing this as a relisten and I won't catch up via audiobook until late October best.
    Jim wasn't lying when he said he felt it was his job to torture Harry was he?

    Major BG spoilers:
    I think that Harry actually came out of this better in some ways than he has in a while. Yes, there was a pretty significant death in there, and yes, he’s off the White Council, and yes, Nemesis did what they did, and yes, the Thomas situation. But Molly’s situation seems somewhat improved, Harry got his house back, his situation with Maggie seems pretty good, he seems to have pretty solidly earned the fear/respect of the supernatural world and he’s strengthened his relationships with some allies, he knows a lot more about what’s going on, etc.

    I think that Harry is overall in a better state now (as if the Christmas after Battle Ground) in some ways than he’s been since Grave Peril. Sure, there’s a lot of things in his life right now that suck, and the major death in BG is one of the biggest hits he’s taken. But given what’s happened over the series, that’s par for the course, and I think that he’s in some ways closer than ever to the most positive parts of his support network.

    Plus, he’s engaged to get married! Won’t that be fun?

    Huge direct BG spoiler:
    In the next book, I really want the wedding to happen, and for Mirror Mirror to end with the morning after. Harry and Lara are lying in bed. Lara reaches out to touch Harry and her fingers get burned. They would both stare at each other for a moment, and then Lara would just start cursing.
    I can dream, right?

    Shadowhope on
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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Whelp, time to step out of this thread until I get and finish my copy.
    Checking email to make sure it's enroute...
    Hey, says it's out for delivery.

    Sorry for you people that got delayed.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I decided to get the audio book because I had all audible trial credit to use and you can't beat free

    Though I'm not really a fan of James Marsters narration from the only other one I listened to which was skin game I believe.

    I haven't started it yet because I didn't sleep good last night and might fall asleep if I start it now.

  • Banzai5150Banzai5150 Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    I decided to get the audio book because I had all audible trial credit to use and you can't beat free

    Though I'm not really a fan of James Marsters narration from the only other one I listened to which was skin game I believe.

    I haven't started it yet because I didn't sleep good last night and might fall asleep if I start it now.

    I positively LOVE Marsters narration and is the only voice for Dresden for me! I’m really hoping this book “feels” better than the last when I’m done.

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  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I think it's just that Marsters reads kinda slow and deliberately and I am used to reading physical copies of the book and I'm a bit of a fast reader and usually finish them in maybe 5 to 8 hours total.

    In my head Harry is much much more Peter Parker-esque

  • Banzai5150Banzai5150 Registered User regular
    He does read rather slowly, and annoyingly raises and lowers his volume depending on the text which makes it a bit difficult to listen to when I’m in the car at times.

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  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    I think it's just that Marsters reads kinda slow and deliberately and I am used to reading physical copies of the book and I'm a bit of a fast reader and usually finish them in maybe 5 to 8 hours total.

    In my head Harry is much much more Peter Parker-esque

    I still imagine him as paul blackthorne.


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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    So, who has two thumbs and Battle Ground? :D

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    So I went and looked up spoilers for this because I'm doing this as a relisten and I won't catch up via audiobook until late October best.
    Jim wasn't lying when he said he felt it was his job to torture Harry was he?

    Major BG spoilers:
    I think that Harry actually came out of this better in some ways than he has in a while. Yes, there was a pretty significant death in there, and yes, he’s off the White Council, and yes, Nemesis did what they did, and yes, the Thomas situation. But Molly’s situation seems somewhat improved, Harry got his house back, his situation with Maggie seems pretty good, he seems to have pretty solidly earned the fear/respect of the supernatural world and he’s strengthened his relationships with some allies, he knows a lot more about what’s going on, etc.

    I think that Harry is overall in a better state now (as if the Christmas after Battle Ground) in some ways than he’s been since Grave Peril. Sure, there’s a lot of things in his life right now that suck, and the major death in BG is one of the biggest hits he’s taken. But given what’s happened over the series, that’s par for the course, and I think that he’s in some ways closer than ever to the most positive parts of his support network.

    Plus, he’s engaged to get married! Won’t that be fun?

    Huge direct BG spoiler:
    In the next book, I really want the wedding to happen, and for Mirror Mirror to end with the morning after. Harry and Lara are lying in bed. Lara reaches out to touch Harry and her fingers get burned. They would both stare at each other for a moment, and then Lara would just start cursing.
    I can dream, right?

    Personally if I was Lara
    I would be a little hesitant to marry Harry. He's got significant Cartwright Curse action going on.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    So, who has two thumbs and Battle Ground? :D

    These days, I generally get all of my books first as ebooks, and then I put the physical hardcover copies of certain series on my Christmas wish list. Peace Talks, Battle Ground, and Rhythm of War are all on my list for this year.

    People on the Internet are more discourteous than in the real world because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Full Battle Ground spoilers
    So...is the extent of Conjuritis' significance--throughout BOTH BOOKS--leaning into it once and magically dropping a sky anvil on a vampire?

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited September 30
    Well my copy arrived.

    It's got a big knife gash in it because Amazon put the book in the box at a weird angle that I could not have anticipated when I viciously stabbed open the package with a large knife.

    I mean seriously they should know better.

    Anyway, still legible.

    RT800 on
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    Well my copy arrived.

    It's got a big knife gash in it because Amazon put the book in the box at a weird angle that I could not have anticipated when I viciously stabbed open the package with a large knife.

    I mean seriously they should know better.

    Anyway, still legible.

    Battle ground, battle scar edition

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  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Minor BG spoilers
    I really wish there had been a conversation between Ivy and Harry.

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  • CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    Full Battle Ground spoilers
    So...is the extent of Conjuritis' significance--throughout BOTH BOOKS--leaning into it once and magically dropping a sky anvil on a vampire?
    Basically.
    A punchline to the brick joke set up all the way back in Blood Rites.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Finished this morning after reading till midnight last night.

    Spoilers for all of BG:
    I really enjoyed this and it was a pain to put down. I finished the entire battle last night before bed. The death of the major character wasn't a surprise to me. I saw it coming. The outcome was a bit different but also what I expected as well.

    I look forward to the wedding. And Molly's planning of it. Curious about the Justine side story. I knew something was up though. I think we all did just not what it was.

    Still a lot of questions.

    What is a starborn exactly? We know Drakul is one now.
    What are the stars and stones? Why does the White Council know what they are?
    What the fuck was the black shit on his granddad? What is the Black staff, the Titan knew it.
    Is he invited to the wedding?
    What exactly is the Empty Knight?

    We know full well that the curses are parts of the apocalypse. But what parts?

    Ugh I want the next book now.

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  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Finished this morning after reading till midnight last night.

    Spoilers for all of BG:
    What is the Black staff, the Titan knew it.
    Popular theory is that it's Mother Winter's walking stick (which Mother Summer had mentioned is missing)

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Finished this morning after reading till midnight last night.

    Spoilers for all of BG:
    What is the Black staff, the Titan knew it.
    Popular theory is that it's Mother Winter's walking stick (which Mother Summer had mentioned is missing)
    Regarding the black stuff, don't know what it is (mordite-adjacent, perhaps?), but the same thing happened to McCoy on a much smaller scale when he used it in Changes.

  • CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Finished this morning after reading till midnight last night.

    Spoilers for all of BG:
    What is the Black staff, the Titan knew it.
    Popular theory is that it's Mother Winter's walking stick (which Mother Summer had mentioned is missing)
    Pretty much confirmed in BG.
    The crone shadow of mother winter appears when he absorbs all that power, and given how much Ethniu hates the Sidhe it explains her rage at seeing the black staff

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    edited October 1
    Some thoughts on Lara. MASSIVE BG spoilers.

    I was initially thinking about Lara’s betrothal to Harry from Harry’s perspective, but it occurred to me that there’s two other major perspectives to consider. Firstly, obviously, Lara herself.

    Firstly, we have Mab’s words: “Lady Lara desired a binding alliance with Winter.” And Lara’s reaction was every bit as startled as Harry’s. I don’t think that Lara actually meant to arrange a marriage for herself. Her quick agreement with what Molly said indicates to me that it came out of left field for her. I think that Lara was just acting as the head of a minor power cozying up to a major power in a world getting significantly more dangerous. Winter, probably more than any other major power, is sure to keep its bargains and do exactly what they promise. But getting married? I suspect that that wasn’t even something Lara considered (though if it was something she considered, that does open up other interesting questions).

    And the blunt and abrupt nature of this got me thinking about Mab. Even for a cold hearted witch like Mab, the whole “the ceremony starts at sunset” thing seems unusually callous. But, two main things came to mind. Firstly, Mab is one of the great manipulators of the Dresdenverse. Secondly, Mab does seem to have a soft spot for Harry, at least so long as that doesn’t negatively impact her plans. With those ideas in mind, I think that Mab decided on marrying Harry and Lara because it’ll be good for Harry, and 99% of her anger at Harry’s indignation is for show.

    I think that Mab sees Lara as a good match for Harry. They’re deadpan snarkers who care deeply about family, who are brave and intelligent, who see themselves as monsters but who are way more human than the typical Dresdenverse monster, who both will have long natural lifespans, who have a lot of mutual respect and who can fight effectively side by side. Also, Harry needs someone who will respect him but not fear him. Some of those factors (do they fight well together?) are very practical Winter considerations, but on the whole I think that Mab thinks that Harry and Lara have the potential to actually have a stable marriage that makes Harry very happy. Plus, it gives Mab a hook on her new ally.

    Basically, this isn’t Mab playing evil witch queen. This is Mab playing fairy godmother, while keeping a straight face. She practically says it outright, in response to Harry’s line about selling his soul: “You didn’t even understand who would be receiving it. Honestly, why you children keep making bargains with old serpents like me, I shall never understand.” Mab is totally playing matchmaker.

    If the wedding actually happens, I think that Harry and Lara will find themselves surprisingly happy together. It will be an unusual relationship, I doubt that they’d cohabitate, and I suspect that Harry will (embarrassingly to him, amusingly to Lara) need the services of Lara’s bodyguard so that he can touch his wife, but I think that they’d make it work.

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