How hard is it to get a Government/School Public Sector IT job ?

2

Posts

  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    Six wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    as someone currently putting in the time to work my way up in IT you better get comfortable with the idea of being on-call. if you're doing any kind of enterprise level support, shit breaks and it doesn't care whether or not it's 2 pm or 2 am. someone has to fix it

    granted, I work server/app support for a shall we say large company (rhymes with tall fart), and our uptime is critical but honestly the coveted 9-5 is vanishing and where it still exists it is something that is earned after serious ass busting

    So what is that what IT is all about just bad work-life balance? Whatever happen to IT people having a personal life outside of work?

    And Im talkin about Help Desk / Desktop Support not Server Support.

    Just because you may have to work on an issue off hours every now and then doesn't mean you have bad work/life balance. Every IT person I know has a great personal life. I used to be in IT and started on a help desk and I was basically 9-5. Different companies are going to have different cultures, and different roles may have different kinds of demands. It's perfectly reasonable to expect to find a help desk/support role that's mostly 9-5.

    At this point I'm not sure what question you really want an answer to. Are you looking for a very specific job title in a very specific vertical that will fit your very specific definition of work/life balance?

    No just something 9 to 5 ( 8 to 4 ) or ( 730 to 330) related where I can leave work at work. I don't mind occasional overtime but most of the time I want to be at home after work and come back the next day. As long as it pays the bills but it doesn't have to pay insanely high either. I thou the public sector fits this more thou. Im willing to get the right certs, a bachelors degree, and finding the right environment while mastering the job. Not sure which IT job fits this the most thou.

  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »

    Long story short: you need to take a good deep breath, act a good deal more humble in relation to the job hunt, lower your immediate expectations, understand that IT is an employer's market and that you will neither be a catch or assured a position in any of these fields and will have to compete for them, and most of all be planning for the next two years rather than looking at the next ten. What you do in your first five years of service will likely change the direction of what you work on for the next five, and there is rarely a person out there that knows where they will be in 15 years.

    To expand upon this some, when you are first coming out of school, you don't really get to be picky about your job and hours. I do not to IT so I can't speak to that field, but more and more college grads are graduating and having trouble finding jobs. You're going to be competing with them, as well as people with experience, and they aren't going to be as picky about hours they work and being on call because they want that job. I wasn't picky at all as far as hours, or location, or even industry, and it still took me 2+ years to find a job in my field.

    Enc
  • SixSix Ask me about my butthole Registered User regular
    Greninja wrote: »
    Six wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    as someone currently putting in the time to work my way up in IT you better get comfortable with the idea of being on-call. if you're doing any kind of enterprise level support, shit breaks and it doesn't care whether or not it's 2 pm or 2 am. someone has to fix it

    granted, I work server/app support for a shall we say large company (rhymes with tall fart), and our uptime is critical but honestly the coveted 9-5 is vanishing and where it still exists it is something that is earned after serious ass busting

    So what is that what IT is all about just bad work-life balance? Whatever happen to IT people having a personal life outside of work?

    And Im talkin about Help Desk / Desktop Support not Server Support.

    Just because you may have to work on an issue off hours every now and then doesn't mean you have bad work/life balance. Every IT person I know has a great personal life. I used to be in IT and started on a help desk and I was basically 9-5. Different companies are going to have different cultures, and different roles may have different kinds of demands. It's perfectly reasonable to expect to find a help desk/support role that's mostly 9-5.

    At this point I'm not sure what question you really want an answer to. Are you looking for a very specific job title in a very specific vertical that will fit your very specific definition of work/life balance?

    No just something 9 to 5 ( 8 to 4 ) or ( 730 to 330) related where I can leave work at work. I don't mind occasional overtime but most of the time I want to be at home after work and come back the next day. As long as it pays the bills but it doesn't have to pay insanely high either. I thou the public sector fits this more thou. Im willing to get the right certs, a bachelors degree, and finding the right environment while mastering the job. Not sure which IT job fits this the most thou.

    A help desk job will start you out just fine and is where a lot of people in IT start anyway.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Another thing to realize is that for most people, the 20's are the time you spend working more than at other ages (note that this is not always true, but bear with me). You generally don't have other commitments, you are in the habit of learning, so you take time to do that and make a name for yourself. I'm now in my mid 30's and I have a family. While previously not working 10 hours on a random day was a choice, now I have daycare pickup, children's dishes and clothes and time I spend with them and my wife. Available time drops precipitously, but I've already built my skillsets and I'm not playing catchup on much.
    Most IT is 9-5 most of the time, but you'll have releases on weekends occasionally or late support when something blows up. Even then, you usually log in from home and it's only a couple extra hours in that week.

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Greninja wrote: »
    Six wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    as someone currently putting in the time to work my way up in IT you better get comfortable with the idea of being on-call. if you're doing any kind of enterprise level support, shit breaks and it doesn't care whether or not it's 2 pm or 2 am. someone has to fix it

    granted, I work server/app support for a shall we say large company (rhymes with tall fart), and our uptime is critical but honestly the coveted 9-5 is vanishing and where it still exists it is something that is earned after serious ass busting

    So what is that what IT is all about just bad work-life balance? Whatever happen to IT people having a personal life outside of work?

    And Im talkin about Help Desk / Desktop Support not Server Support.

    Just because you may have to work on an issue off hours every now and then doesn't mean you have bad work/life balance. Every IT person I know has a great personal life. I used to be in IT and started on a help desk and I was basically 9-5. Different companies are going to have different cultures, and different roles may have different kinds of demands. It's perfectly reasonable to expect to find a help desk/support role that's mostly 9-5.

    At this point I'm not sure what question you really want an answer to. Are you looking for a very specific job title in a very specific vertical that will fit your very specific definition of work/life balance?

    No just something 9 to 5 ( 8 to 4 ) or ( 730 to 330) related where I can leave work at work. I don't mind occasional overtime but most of the time I want to be at home after work and come back the next day. As long as it pays the bills but it doesn't have to pay insanely high either. I thou the public sector fits this more thou. Im willing to get the right certs, a bachelors degree, and finding the right environment while mastering the job. Not sure which IT job fits this the most thou.

    Degree is not destiny. Just getting a degree won't get you a job, all that does is allow a hiring manager to keep from immediately shredding your resume. You have to be willing to show effort and enthusiasm in order to actually be hired. Your posts in here show a lack of both. This is a critique not because I don't think you have those qualities (everyone can have these qualities), but that right now the attitude you are reflecting in this thread indicates a lack of both. And as someone who hires people, it's pretty clear.

    Drop the idea of what hours you want. Drop the idea of work vs home balance. Embrace the current (horrible) reality that employment in the US is tilted towards employers and their needs, not the worker. That doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it cool. But that is how it is. Until you have a lot of experience and a sterling reputation within your field you won't have much ability to dictate your hours or terms of employment. And saying "I'm only willing to work X hours and I want to leave the job at work" isn't going to get you past an interview, and definitely not a solid enough reputation in field over time to be able to actually to the the stage where such negotiation is plausible.

    minirhyderLostNinjaDarkewolfemellestadArcanisTheImpotent
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    Six wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    as someone currently putting in the time to work my way up in IT you better get comfortable with the idea of being on-call. if you're doing any kind of enterprise level support, shit breaks and it doesn't care whether or not it's 2 pm or 2 am. someone has to fix it

    granted, I work server/app support for a shall we say large company (rhymes with tall fart), and our uptime is critical but honestly the coveted 9-5 is vanishing and where it still exists it is something that is earned after serious ass busting

    So what is that what IT is all about just bad work-life balance? Whatever happen to IT people having a personal life outside of work?

    And Im talkin about Help Desk / Desktop Support not Server Support.

    Just because you may have to work on an issue off hours every now and then doesn't mean you have bad work/life balance. Every IT person I know has a great personal life. I used to be in IT and started on a help desk and I was basically 9-5. Different companies are going to have different cultures, and different roles may have different kinds of demands. It's perfectly reasonable to expect to find a help desk/support role that's mostly 9-5.

    At this point I'm not sure what question you really want an answer to. Are you looking for a very specific job title in a very specific vertical that will fit your very specific definition of work/life balance?

    No just something 9 to 5 ( 8 to 4 ) or ( 730 to 330) related where I can leave work at work. I don't mind occasional overtime but most of the time I want to be at home after work and come back the next day. As long as it pays the bills but it doesn't have to pay insanely high either. I thou the public sector fits this more thou. Im willing to get the right certs, a bachelors degree, and finding the right environment while mastering the job. Not sure which IT job fits this the most thou.

    Degree is not destiny. Just getting a degree won't get you a job, all that does is allow a hiring manager to keep from immediately shredding your resume. You have to be willing to show effort and enthusiasm in order to actually be hired. Your posts in here show a lack of both. This is a critique not because I don't think you have those qualities (everyone can have these qualities), but that right now the attitude you are reflecting in this thread indicates a lack of both. And as someone who hires people, it's pretty clear.

    Drop the idea of what hours you want. Drop the idea of work vs home balance. Embrace the current (horrible) reality that employment in the US is tilted towards employers and their needs, not the worker. That doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it cool. But that is how it is. Until you have a lot of experience and a sterling reputation within your field you won't have much ability to dictate your hours or terms of employment. And saying "I'm only willing to work X hours and I want to leave the job at work" isn't going to get you past an interview, and definitely not a solid enough reputation in field over time to be able to actually to the the stage where such negotiation is plausible.

    Sorry then if you rather hire someone that lives to work. I work to live I don't live to work.
    I won't be a workaholic like the rest of the U.S
    You can think what you want.
    I sure won't talk like this in an Interview.
    Im building my reputation now by gaining work experience while in school.
    Just because I don't have kids or family doesn't mean I don't want work life balance.
    I have family and friends I like to spend time with on the weekends.

  • minirhyderminirhyder BerlinRegistered User regular
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    EncGaslightLostNinjaDarkewolfemellestadQuid
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    So what you do is turn off your smartphone pretty simple.

    I'm sure if you asked people who are on their deathbeds in what they wish they would have done more, most would say spend time with family, friends, or travel. I don't think many would say they wished they spent more time working much less when people are off work.

    I seen plenty of people saying they have a 9 to 5 job with decent money.

    Greninja on
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    This is a crucial point. @Greninja, what you seem to be looking for might have been a lot more possible say, 20+ years ago... it was a lot easier to punch out at 5 and then "hide" from work because there was really no way to reach you unless your job wanted to call your home phone. (Doesn't mean you could get ahead that way, especially if you were disappearing every day at the stroke of 5 regardless of what work was going on, but you might have been able to coast for a while.) But of course, the ironic thing is that back then the type of work you're interested in (IT/computer help desk) didn't really exist.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
    Greninja
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    No one is saying it is right or fair or the way it should be. It's the way it is. Railing against it is unproductive. I'm telling you this because I literally am paid to know these things and prepare students for the workforce. That's about 30% of my day to day job. I do advanced analytic on the topic monthly. I see placement reports at institution, state, and national levels. I've literally written a thesis on the subject.

    Entry level position expectations won't mean you are a workaholic, but you will damn well be expected to present yourself as one if you want to get your foot in the door. You are too hung up on an idealistic image of what the workforce is. You will work what hours you are assigned at first. You will do work no one else wants to do, because you are the low man on the totem pole. You will frequently be assigned shifts that have nights and weekends. That's not every assignment, or even most weeks, but it is frequent and it does happen.

    After a few years of working these shifts, especially if you work them with a lot of effort, enthusiasm, and willingness to grow your responsibilities, you might get the opportunity to move into better timeframes, payrates, and positions. Starting out you have next to nothing to offer an employer but your flexibility and effort. Once you have expertise and reputation you can cash those in for better workplace conditions.

    DaenrisbowenArcanisTheImpotent
  • seasleepyseasleepy Registered User regular
    ....Man, like people have mentioned, the job websites for schools and governments in your area are public. At this point, you should perhaps look at those to get an idea of what specifically they're expecting. They will also include the pay scales. I found this within 5 minutes, as an example of the sort of thing you are theoretically looking at in the future.

    As you can see from the listing, and as people are pointing out, if you are in this line of work, you are almost certainly going to be on a call rotation. It is a thing that comes with the job. If it is a good job, you won't get called often. If it is a bad job, you will. No one outside of the specific department you apply for will be able to tell you whether or not you are likely to get called. You will also have to occasionally do some work outside of business hours anyway for maintenance purposes.

    You are also going to have to be a jack-of-all trades. If you look at the job posting above, you can see the variety of kinds of things that they will want you to be able to support -- mac, windows, servers, virtualization, software, hardware, desktop, etc etc, and all at multiple sites. The only explicitly desktop support jobs I've seen at the places I've worked are generally much lower paying than the ranges you're looking at and are often filled by students if you're in a university (like the job you currently have, most likely).

    I definitely sympathize with the desire to go 9-5 and leave work at work. And there are jobs out there where, most of the time, you actually can just stop at the end of the day. But even if you luck into one of those:
    - Sometimes there is a deadline, and that means you're gonna be on a laptop at 1 AM banging away on a report or whatever.
    - Sometimes the servers stop working on the weekend and someone needs to go in and push the button because the doctors need to catch up on their notes.
    - Sometimes you need to do an update so you schedule some downtime in the middle of the night, and so you spend the night doing maintenance (and probably you'll have to be back at work in the morning in case anything goes wrong).
    Categorically saying NO EVENINGS/WEEKENDS is going to get a lot of doors closed in your face because people want someone they can depend on to help with those tasks.

    Steam | Nintendo: seasleepy | PSN: seasleepy1
    EncbowenmellestadLostNinjaArcanisTheImpotent
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Greninja wrote: »
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    So what you do is turn off your smartphone pretty simple.

    I'm sure if you asked people who are on their deathbeds in what they wish they would have done more, most would say spend time with family, friends, or travel. I don't think many would say they wished they spent more time working much less when people are off work.

    I seen plenty of people saying they have a 9 to 5 job with decent money.

    I am presently 30 years old. I have a 9-5 job with decent money. After 6-10 years in field, assuming you aren't negative, lazy, or unwilling to grow your workplace network you probably will too. Almost all of my friends do as well. I'm pretty specialized in my field, and I have the ability to set my hours and make fairly decent conditions. I started out in my current field about 8 years ago and have worked much, much less pleasant hours to get where I am by busting my ass to make it here. Most folks with 9-5 jobs generally have done their time in the trenches to work their way into their positions or relied upon nepotism to get to their positions (which is always a fine and acceptable way to break into the workforce).

    Given your questions here, and desire to go public sector, I'm assuming nepotism doesn't apply which means you don't have any easy legs up into the workforce. So more likely than not you will need to rely upon effort and enthusiasm to get your network by impressing folk rather than relying upon pre-existing connections through family or close friends in hiring positions. In the public sector you cannot get easy handouts from friends in hiring positions by law (unless you get an appointee position in which case you are a best bud or campaign doner of some county or state commissioner and certainly aren't working IT).

    Get used to the idea you will have to sacrifice some of your personal time to get started.

    GaslightArcanisTheImpotent
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    I don't care if those doors closed.
    As long as I can work 8 hours with the occasional overtime sure.
    After that I don't want to be disturbed.

    Is that so much to ask?

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    If you don't ever want to work on a night or weekend in IT, then you basically don't ever want to do anything important or have a role with any responsibility.
    Helpdesk is one of the very few IT positions that tend to have strict clock-in/clock-out and can leave work at work.
    If you're at any other level, be it management, project management, network or server or desktop or application support you're almost guaranteed to at the very least have to be part of an on-call rotation. Or have to perform some sort of upgrade or maintenance after business hours because it's a mission critical system that can't go down during the day.
    What that looks like depends on who you work for. I work for a hospital system of 12k-ish employees and our PC techs typically were only on call 1 week out of every 2 months. But being a hospital you better believe they got called several times during that week.

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    EncmellestadArcanisTheImpotent
  • minirhyderminirhyder BerlinRegistered User regular
    Greninja wrote: »
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    So what you do is turn off your smartphone pretty simple.

    I'm sure if you asked people who are on their deathbeds in what they wish they would have done more, most would say spend time with family, friends, or travel. I don't think many would say they wished they spent more time working much less when people are off work.

    I seen plenty of people saying they have a 9 to 5 job with decent money.

    Sure you can but that'll come off quite badly to your superiors and you'll be first on the chopping block come lay-off season. And layoffs fucking suck.

    Here's how things work in the real world:

    You'll likely have a 9-6, 8-5, 9-5 or something similar job. You will usually work those hours. You will get emails after hours that you will read to know what's going on. You can either ignore them and deal with them the next day, reply to them, and/or deal with them in whatever capacity you can/choose to.

    Once in a while something will happen that will result in you working more than the standard hours. Something breaks, it's crunch time, you've won the shit lottery and 10 people have difficult problems that all need to be solved today. That's life. Shit happens.

    Expecting to never ever have to deal with a situation that makes you exert yourself is not only unrealistic and entitled, it's actually counterproductive to your career development.
    And you can give us your mumbo jumbo about how you don't want a career and you just want a job, but if you're in a field (specially a white collar field) for years, that's a career. And you need to get better at it to retain that career.
    The world (especially the tech world) changes fast, and you need to grow and change with it.


    I'm not really sure what you're looking for at this point. Seasoned veterans have all come in here and told you pretty much the same thing. You keep waving all of that advice off in hopes that maybe someone will come in here and tell you that the 9-5 IT job with 0 responsibility after hours totally exists and here are the exact steps you need to take to get it. That's not happening. It doesn't exist.

    EncArcanisTheImpotent
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    No, but the only people who will answer are food service, retail, or call center positions that will pay you equivalent to your desire to work. You are willing to put the minimal possible in, you will get the minimal possible (generally minimum wage).

    Look at this another way. If someone is hiring a position, these days in most cities in the US the average number of applicants for a Bachelor's level job is about 70-120*. Thats people qualified, not counting people without basic certifications or lacking any sort of relevant knowledge for position. If I am looking at those 70 people, why would I choose the person who has a "I just want to work 8 hours and then go home and be ignored" over the person who says "I will take any hours you give me and be very happy and thankful for it!"

    That's the choice employers have when it comes to minimum wage positions. Maybe if you move to someplace like Caribou, Maine where there simply aren't human beings with the skillset around you can get away with that, but even then you will likely have 2-3 people at least applying for IT and if they show more spunk than you I'd hire them first.

    This isn't a matter of what is fair, or how employment should be. The entire system is fucked up for the working classes (both white and blue collar). But the system isn't going to change within the timeframe of your employment at the entry level, even in the best case scenario.

    *As of October 2015, the range depends on fields, states, and markets.

    Enc on
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Greninja wrote: »
    So what you do is turn off your smartphone pretty simple.

    And then they will find someone else to fill your job who doesn't turn off their phone pretty simple.

    The job market, any job market, is competitive. When you won't do something, you may be competing against somebody who will.

    Nobody owes you a job, any job, let alone your dream job where you get to do the exact thing that interests you for the exact hours you want and not a minute more for the exact amount of money you want. Your mentality reeks of entitlement, which is not a good quality in any job, and is even worse in a public sector position where your salary is being paid for out of the pockets of taxpayers.
    As long as I can work 8 hours with the occasional overtime sure.
    After that I don't want to be disturbed.

    Is that so much to ask?

    At the entry level in the field you're interested in, yes, that is a lot to ask. That is what everybody has been telling you.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
    minirhyderLostNinjaArcanisTheImpotent
  • minirhyderminirhyder BerlinRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Greninja wrote: »
    I don't care if those doors closed.
    As long as I can work 8 hours with the occasional overtime sure.
    After that I don't want to be disturbed.

    Is that so much to ask?

    Man, you've never looked for jobs, have you

    minirhyder on
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    If you don't ever want to work on a night or weekend in IT, then you basically don't ever want to do anything important or have a role with any responsibility.
    Helpdesk is one of the very few IT positions that tend to have strict clock-in/clock-out and can leave work at work.
    If you're at any other level, be it management, project management, network or server or desktop or application support you're almost guaranteed to at the very least have to be part of an on-call rotation. Or have to perform some sort of upgrade or maintenance after business hours because it's a mission critical system that can't go down during the day.
    What that looks like depends on who you work for. I work for a hospital system of 12k-ish employees and our PC techs typically were only on call 1 week out of every 2 months. But being a hospital you better believe they got called several times during that week.

    Thanks :+1:
    I'll look into Help Desk then :)
    And find the right environment

    Greninja on
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    I don't care if those doors closed.
    As long as I can work 8 hours with the occasional overtime sure.
    After that I don't want to be disturbed.

    Is that so much to ask?

    Man, you've never looked for jobs, have you

    No :?

  • Gilbert0Gilbert0 North of SeattleRegistered User regular
    and the reason most IT has work after hours, is the services IT provide enable the main line of business to work in the "normal" 9-5 timeframe. If you work for a university, they are primarily teaching.....IT provides the tools to be more effective at teaching but if you wanted to upgrade the network, replace printers, upgrade whatever, most of the time that is done in off-hours to lessen the impact to the "core business". This is the same in private businesses too, say an insurance company, they would have insurance applications and they would be open from 7-7, IT work on those applications, phones, etc is done OUTSIDE those hours.

    Just echoing what everyone else says, a HelpDesk, Tier 1, usually has shifts and if your lucky, could get the 9-5 shift and be done with your job when your off the clock. but it does not pay 50K a year. It's half that.

    bowenEncArcanisTheImpotent
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    You're going to have a rough time if you're over 18 and haven't had a job, ever, just to start with.

    You're going to have an even harder time, on top of that, if you're putting any stipulations on your work schedule.

    You're going to have an even harder time, on top of that, if you're hyper focused on the type of job you want.

    Basically, what it boils down to, is with all of those conditionals you're putting on your job search, it's going to take you multiple years to find a job. You have no experience, you have a really low availability, and you have a really focused career job goal (and you don't seem to want to work overtime). You could lie about the overtime thing, and then just be a real miser about working it, and then run the risk someone gets pissed and fires you. That's up to you.

    What we're telling you is take a step back and really examine what it is you want. I understand you want a balanced work life, but no one's saying you're working 80 hour weeks or are on call 24/7/365. What they're saying is sometimes you are going to have to work overtime. Sometimes you'll have to do a job you don't want to do. Sometimes you'll have to interact with shitty people.

    You may get a job offer that's midnight-8:00am. Are you not going to work that and hold out for the proverbial white elephant just because you want to do things with your friends sometimes?

    I can tell you right now, as you get older, your friends and you will do less and less with each other, and so will you and your family. But the times you do do stuff with each other will be more meaningful and better. Don't hamstring yourself because you think you deserve something that no one's offering.

    Apply yourself, get better, get better jobs, use your skills and abilities to determine how and when you work. That's how everyone does it, that's why I have a 9-5 job. I'm on call, but I've been called 4 times in 10 years. Guess what though, I also get paid to be on call.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    minirhyderArcanisTheImpotent
  • minirhyderminirhyder BerlinRegistered User regular
    Also, your desires are pigeonholing you into a job you'll likely hate.
    You can totally have a job that's fulfilling and enjoyable that also allows you to have a social life and hobbies. If you like what you do, making an effort and doing occasional overtime isn't going to be difficult or prohibitive. You'll want to do it.

    But getting there will take work and effort.


    schuss
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    For general posterity:
    Computer Support Specialists

    Computer support specialists provide help and advice to people and organizations using computer software or equipment. Some, called computer network support specialists, support information technology (IT) employees within their organization. Others, called computer user support specialists, assist non-IT users who are having computer problems.

    Most computer support specialists have full-time work schedules; however, many do not work typical 9-to-5 jobs. Because computer support is important for businesses, many support specialists must be available 24 hours a day.

    Because of the wide range of skills used in different computer support jobs, there are many paths into the occupation. A bachelor's degree is required for some computer support specialist positions, but an associate's degree or postsecondary classes may be enough for others.

    In May 2012, the median annual wage for computer network support specialists was $59,090*. The median annual wage for computer user support specialists was $46,420* in May 2012.
    Employment of computer support specialists is projected to grow 17 percent from 2012 to 2022, faster than the average for all occupations. More support services will be needed as organizations upgrade their computer equipment and software.

    *Includes all levels of employment from entry level to managerial and all experience levels as aggregate. Note the average managerial salary, which is also calculated, both are over $85k and 65k respectively, skewing these number substantially.
    Top Ten Industries

    U.S. National Figures.

    Computer User Support Specialists

    Computer Systems Design and Related Services 103,820
    Elementary and Secondary Schools 34,240
    Management of Companies and Enterprises 28,040
    Professional and Commercial Equipment and Supplies Merchant Wholesalers 25,160
    Colleges Universities and Professional Schools 23,790
    Software Publishers 20,430
    Employment Services 18,300
    Data Processing Hosting and Related Services 13,960
    Local Government (OES Designation) 13,380
    General Medical and Surgical Hospitals 12,290

    Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2012
    Job Requirements

    Experience: Previous work-related skill, knowledge, or experience is required for these occupations. For example, an electrician must have completed three or four years of apprenticeship or several years of vocational training, and often must have passed a licensing exam, in order to perform the job.

    Education: Most occupations in this zone require training in vocational schools, related on-the-job experience, or an associate's degree. Some may require a bachelor's degree.

    Training: Employees in these occupations usually need one or two years of training involving both on-the-job experience and informal training with experienced workers.
    Top 5 Skills

    Active Listening — Giving full attention to what other people are saying, taking time to understand the points being made, asking questions as appropriate, and not interrupting at inappropriate times.

    Speaking — Talking to others to convey information effectively.

    Reading Comprehension — Understanding written sentences and paragraphs in work related documents.

    Critical Thinking — Using logic and reasoning to identify the strengths and weaknesses of alternative solutions, conclusions or approaches to problems.

    Writing — Communicating effectively in writing as appropriate for the needs of the audience.
    Employment by States (2012 census)
    Number
    Alaska 1,030
    Alabama 7,310
    Arkansas 2,810
    Arizona 10,710
    California 58,190
    Colorado 12,920
    Connecticut 8,250
    District of Columbia 4,680
    Delaware 1,800
    Florida 25,240
    Georgia 18,600
    Guam 190
    Hawaii 1,420
    Iowa 4,050
    Idaho 2,060
    Illinois 17,910
    Indiana 7,190
    Kansas 5,350
    Kentucky 5,180
    Louisiana 3,730
    Massachusetts 17,500
    Maryland 12,300
    Maine 1,610
    Michigan 19,070
    Minnesota 10,700
    Missouri 13,850
    Mississippi 2,230
    Montana 1,680
    North Carolina 18,500
    North Dakota 1,760
    Nebraska 3,140
    New Hampshire 2,450
    New Jersey 15,480
    New Mexico 3,240
    Nevada 2,390
    New York 34,900
    Ohio 18,320
    Oklahoma 5,750
    Oregon 6,950
    Pennsylvania 21,420
    Puerto Rico 2,920
    Rhode Island 1,180
    South Carolina 5,480
    South Dakota 1,200
    Tennessee 6,610
    Texas 48,640
    Utah 6,370
    Virginia 18,250
    Virgin Islands 110
    Vermont 1,500
    Washington 13,830
    Wisconsin 8,590
    West Virginia 1,710
    Wyoming 590

    *Most public state universities graduate approximately 1,500 students in majors in this field a year, not counting private or for-profit graduation rates. This number is the average per state, not total for the country. Compare this total with the total employed in-field within your state or desired market to get a range of how many people graduating in your semester will be competing for the total number of actually employed persons in field.
    Happiness Index

    Satisfaction Rating: (2.3) (out of 5)
    Users in this career have rated it a 2.3 in terms of their own personal satisfaction with the career. Users were asked to rate their happiness in their current occupation as being either "Very Happy" (4), "Happy" (3), "Mixed / Neutral" (2), "Not Happy" (1), or "Miserable" (0).

    Enc on
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    bowen wrote: »
    You're going to have a rough time if you're over 18 and haven't had a job, ever, just to start with.

    You're going to have an even harder time, on top of that, if you're putting any stipulations on your work schedule.

    You're going to have an even harder time, on top of that, if you're hyper focused on the type of job you want.

    Basically, what it boils down to, is with all of those conditionals you're putting on your job search, it's going to take you multiple years to find a job. You have no experience, you have a really low availability, and you have a really focused career job goal (and you don't seem to want to work overtime). You could lie about the overtime thing, and then just be a real miser about working it, and then run the risk someone gets pissed and fires you. That's up to you.

    What we're telling you is take a step back and really examine what it is you want. I understand you want a balanced work life, but no one's saying you're working 80 hour weeks or are on call 24/7/365. What they're saying is sometimes you are going to have to work overtime. Sometimes you'll have to do a job you don't want to do. Sometimes you'll have to interact with shitty people.

    You may get a job offer that's midnight-8:00am. Are you not going to work that and hold out for the proverbial white elephant just because you want to do things with your friends sometimes?

    I can tell you right now, as you get older, your friends and you will do less and less with each other, and so will you and your family. But the times you do do stuff with each other will be more meaningful and better. Don't hamstring yourself because you think you deserve something that no one's offering.

    Apply yourself, get better, get better jobs, use your skills and abilities to determine how and when you work. That's how everyone does it, that's why I have a 9-5 job. I'm on call, but I've been called 4 times in 10 years. Guess what though, I also get paid to be on call.

    Do you even pay attention that I am building experience and am in School. I mention it multiple times. Low availability ( okay sure ill never be a doctor, manager whatever I Understand)

    (really focused career job goal) No im opening to always breaking into another profession thats mostly 9 to 5

    I used to work a night shift, Im not going back there no matter how much you pay me or anyone in this world. I lost my insanity, I know whats its like working nights and weekends sure ill still work a very rare occasional night and weekend THATS IT thou I know what I want job that pays the bills thats it I don't have I only work because its a necessity evil that's it

    I'll be an admin assistant, desktop tech, accountant or whatever as long as I got a good work life balance.

    Greninja on
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Greninja wrote: »
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    So what you do is turn off your smartphone pretty simple.

    I'm sure if you asked people who are on their deathbeds in what they wish they would have done more, most would say spend time with family, friends, or travel. I don't think many would say they wished they spent more time working much less when people are off work.

    I seen plenty of people saying they have a 9 to 5 job with decent money.

    Do this and see how long you keep your job. It won't be very long.

  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Also, your desires are pigeonholing you into a job you'll likely hate.
    You can totally have a job that's fulfilling and enjoyable that also allows you to have a social life and hobbies. If you like what you do, making an effort and doing occasional overtime isn't going to be difficult or prohibitive. You'll want to do it.

    But getting there will take work and effort.


    IT support isn't a bad job I like it . and yes if its occasional overtime I'll do it

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    You are in school, you are not building 'work' experience. You are learning. Unless you have another job you're not telling us. Or something, I don't know. You're very hush hush and combative.

    You just said you've never looked for jobs.

    What advice do you even want? You're clearly hostile to any advice that's actually relevant to what you're asking here.

    You're never going to find work life balance that pays what you're looking for, you're going to be stuck with jobs that pay $8-15 an hour because those are the only jobs that don't require skill. The kind of jobs where you can turn off, and once you clock out, the job doesn't exist anymore.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    mellestadEncArcanisTheImpotent
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Greninja wrote: »
    minirhyder wrote: »
    Your obsession with leaving work at work and never working over 8 hours a day is unrealistic.

    We live in a country where most people have a smartphone that's connected to the internet. You'll have email and other communication apps on your phone, and you bet your ass people will send you tickets, questions, requests, etc. It'll happen. However you choose to handle that is up to you, but there is no white collar job out there right now (especially one that deals with technology in any capacity) where all communications and expectations cease once the clock hits 5.

    So what you do is turn off your smartphone pretty simple.

    I'm sure if you asked people who are on their deathbeds in what they wish they would have done more, most would say spend time with family, friends, or travel. I don't think many would say they wished they spent more time working much less when people are off work.

    I seen plenty of people saying they have a 9 to 5 job with decent money.

    Do this and see how long you keep your job. It won't be very long.

    I mean at my current job no one expect Network and System admins carries a pager. ( i work with them)
    I work with a Desktop Lead and he has no pager. Yea rare overtime but definately still seems like an interesting job.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    So you already work in this field already...?

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • minirhyderminirhyder BerlinRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    I think he mentioned that he works at his school as a computer lab assistant or something of that sort.

    Here's the thing, dude.

    Whatever 'experience' you're getting through your classes, that's not experience in the eyes of employers. At all. That's the bare minimum that you need to have to even be considered.
    The job that you have right now at your school, that's great! But it's considered an internship in the eyes of employers and while it shows that you have some experience and that you're a go-getter of sorts, it's worlds different from an actual full time job in an office environment.

    Like....the things you say so clearly paint a picture of an entitled college kid who thinks that his college degree will get him the world and that's simply not true. A college degree with a part time job or an internship is the bare minimum you need to have to not have your resume thrown into the recycle bin. It most certainly doesn't entitle you to anything, let alone a job where you dictate the terms.

    minirhyder on
    bowenGaslightEncLostNinjaArcanisTheImpotent
  • Gilbert0Gilbert0 North of SeattleRegistered User regular
    Greninja wrote: »
    Whos say that I expected 45k to 50k right out the window?
    thats why im in college right now tryin to get a degree and gaining IT work experience while in school
    Why do you think I call it a goal?
    Im pretty sure everyone has to pay their dues
    I make 13$ an hour as a part time computer lab assistant
    Im not lazy i have a decent work ethic but work is not my life
    Thats why i ask the people on this forum to guide me thru how can I reach my goal of getting a public sector IT job
    Im pretty realistic on my expectations we all have to work our way up
    I dont get why you're misleaded thinking I expect 50k out of college or without a college degree.

    Here's where he mentioned his job.

    Here's the thing, you've gotten a front line job. $13 is the pay. Tier 1 everywhere else doesn't magically go up $24/hour somewhere else ($50,000/52 weeks a year / 40 hours a week). They are $13-18/hour.

    What everyone in the thread is trying to say, is once you get some experience, you don't stay Tier 1. You move up. If you stay Tier 1, you get paid like Tier 1. If you don't like it, that's fine but others (like students) will jump at that pay.

  • mellestadmellestad Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    After reading more responses, to be honest I don't think IT is right for you. You can maintain your attitude and get a job (maybe, if you're a good liar in an interview), but you'll never move past helpdesk and helpdesk work isn't good enough for a career.

    Maybe you should look into retail? The hours are typically more steady and if you're in school you can work your way into a management position if you're looking for more responsibility as you age.

    IT, and development too, is about meeting people's needs. It's a service industry. When it comes down to it, the people who succeed are the people who sacrifice to get things done for other people. That means working odd hours sometimes and being available for support when it's needed, and being able to make people believe you care enough to work hard when they're having a crisis.

    If you can suck it up and fake that customer-service attitude for 5-10 years you can find a position that's senior enough to not deal with that as much, but you have to work to get there.

    If things really go south I need to *know* that everyone I work with is willing to pull together and get things done even if it means working from home or coming in on a weekend, or just being available for a senior person when they're having a problem. Hopefully that doesn't happen often, but when it does...

    Edit: The simple fact that you've managed to cheese off *real* IT managers is a forum thread should make you stop and think about what you're wanting to do here. Really--the people who would be your bosses are the people telling you you've got a horrible attitude. I hope can see that and learn something from it.

    mellestad on
    GaslightEncDarkewolfeLostNinjaArcanisTheImpotent
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Do you want help finding a job, or do you just want to argue about whether or not your expectations for the job you want are realistic?

    You are asking for advice. People are taking their own time to provide what guidance they can based on their own experiences and understanding. Nobody is telling you to take their advice, but if you want to argue about it, that's a D&D thread, not an H/A thread.

    By the way if you ever put up for a position that I was hiring for and I saw the stuff you've posted on these forums, I would ignore your resume. You seem to have an unreasonably high estimation of your skills and value in the marketplace. Frankly, if you were actually as good as you think you are, you would already be able to research and know the answers to the questions you keep asking. Not to mention you would have more working knowledge of the fields in question, or a better grasp of context such as "maybe I shouldn't ask how to get a government job since there are literally thousands of governmental entities across the country I could work for in literally thousands of capacities and not all of them do the same thing".

    You might think you're good at hiding it, but I guarantee you that even if you land a job, you can't hide your attitude forever. People will pick up on it, and it will impede your career in the long term. Consider toning down the entitlement a little bit. And by entitlement I mean making demands like "I don't want to work overtime" when you don't even know what job you're applying for and whether they even want you to work overtime. Focus more on putting yourself in a position to actually get a job and make demands, rather than the other way around.

    minirhyderGaslightEncLostNinjabowen
  • Edgar PerezEdgar Perez Registered User new member
    edited December 2015
    bowen wrote: »
    You are in school, you are not building 'work' experience. You are learning. Unless you have another job you're not telling us. Or something, I don't know. You're very hush hush and combative.

    You just said you've never looked for jobs.

    What advice do you even want? You're clearly hostile to any advice that's actually relevant to what you're asking here.

    You're never going to find work life balance that pays what you're looking for, you're going to be stuck with jobs that pay $8-15 an hour because those are the only jobs that don't require skill. The kind of jobs where you can turn off, and once you clock out, the job doesn't exist anymore.

    NEW HERE
    I think people here need to stop bullying the OP
    There's nothing wrong with wanting a 9 to 5 job

    I am an IT Field Service Technician for a School District and we work 7:00 to 3:30 M-F ( team of 25 technicians)
    I think one of the reasons I never ever work overtime or are on call is because we are paid hourly and our company hates to pay us for overtime or on call rates.
    It's very rare we ever work overtime.
    We touch everything from Mac's, servers, desktops, outlook, email client etc.
    My boss even look's down on it

    I make like about 48K a year ( 23-24$ an hour ). I expect a raise as we have step towards how much we are paid. I'm currently in Step 1
    On the bad side, the work can get boring and tedious sometimes.
    Its possible to find a job like the OP's wants it may limit his career path but I think people who said it doesn't exist are pure workaholics it does it may not be as common but there are still plenty of 9 to 5 roles.
    It may not pay 100K but thats not the goal of the OP.
    Only people who respond to emergencies at our company are Net Op's, and anyone who's a System admin.
    First of all Overtime is expensive and so is buying pager's and paying on call rates.
    Plus nobody here likes to work weekends or nights.
    It's not hard to get a role like this if you know your stuff and work hard to find these positions.

    I started in a Tech Support company making 35K a year in a private software.
    Never worked overtime ( Only one time and even then it was a party celebration for me)
    Now as a Field Tech only overtime one time in my whole IT Career.

    If you don't want to work weekends, nights, or be on call. I say get into some form of IT support, or Desktop Support Role.
    Not every company requires these guys to be on call, some do some don't

    It really depends on the company you work for, not the job.

    Most government jobs have a strict 40 hour week. That's it.


    Edgar Perez on
  • GreninjaGreninja Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    bowen wrote: »
    So you already work in this field already...?

    Yes I do as a Computer Lab Assistant
    Its a great job I like helping out users, yea some people may get pissed off but it's not that bad.
    But I have the day shift.

    Greninja on
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Nobody is "bullying" the OP. If people are getting frustrated at the OP, it's because:

    1. He's created a series of threads asking for advice all basically hedging around the same topic...

    2. Been oddly vague or evasive about what he actually wanted to know much of the time (including using the old "asking for a friend" chestnut)...

    3. Seemed more interested in arguing and complaining about the advice he received not matching up with exactly what he wanted to hear than in actually learning anything from the counsel people are patiently taking time to offer him.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
    EncSix
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    bowen wrote: »
    You are in school, you are not building 'work' experience. You are learning. Unless you have another job you're not telling us. Or something, I don't know. You're very hush hush and combative.

    You just said you've never looked for jobs.

    What advice do you even want? You're clearly hostile to any advice that's actually relevant to what you're asking here.

    You're never going to find work life balance that pays what you're looking for, you're going to be stuck with jobs that pay $8-15 an hour because those are the only jobs that don't require skill. The kind of jobs where you can turn off, and once you clock out, the job doesn't exist anymore.

    NEW HERE
    I think people here need to stop bullying the OP
    There's nothing wrong with wanting a 9 to 5 job

    I am an IT Field Service Technician for a School District and we work 7:00 to 3:30 M-F ( team of 25 technicians)
    I think one of the reasons I never ever work overtime or are on call is because we are paid hourly and our company hates to pay us for overtime or on call rates.
    It's very rare we ever work overtime.
    We touch everything from Mac's, servers, desktops, outlook, email client etc.
    My boss even look's down on it

    I make like about 48K a year ( 23-24$ an hour ). I expect a raise as we have step towards how much we are paid. I'm currently in Step 1
    On the bad side, the work can get boring and tedious sometimes.
    Its possible to find a job like the OP's wants it may limit his career path but I think people who said it doesn't exist are pure workaholics it does it may not be as common but there are still plenty of 9 to 5 roles.
    It may not pay 100K but thats not the goal of the OP.
    Only people who respond to emergencies at our company are Net Op's, and anyone who's a System admin.
    First of all Overtime is expensive and so is buying pager's and paying on call rates.
    Plus nobody here likes to work weekends or nights.
    It's not hard to get a role like this if you know your stuff and work hard to find these positions.

    I started in a Tech Support company making 35K a year in a private software.
    Never worked overtime ( Only one time and even then it was a party celebration for me)
    Now as a Field Tech only overtime one time in my whole IT Career.

    If you don't want to work weekends, nights, or be on call. I say get into some form of IT support, or Desktop Support Role.
    Not every company requires these guys to be on call, some do some don't

    It really depends on the company you work for, not the job.

    Most government jobs have a strict 40 hour week. That's it.


    If you want to work in IT, here's a quick term for you to look up: IP check.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

    minirhyderGaslightEncInquisitor77Dr_KeenbeanGilbert0DarkewolfeseasleepyLostNinjaArcanisTheImpotentbowenHahnsoo1UsagiTychoCelchuuuAngelinaschussPowerpuppiesNarbusDoctorArchYoshisummonsDaenrisASimPersonWiseManTobesNaphtali
  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    This has been said but you need to be able to be flexible, especially with no previous job experience. This is true for every job I have ever had.

    I hope you can find what you are looking for but be ready to work to get it. If i had a choice between two people and one is willing to be flexible while the other wants a strict schedule, the one i pick is obvious

    XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Alright, I'm done here. Good luck in your search or whatever your goal is.

    If you don't want advice don't ask for it.

This discussion has been closed.