Kneel's family shenanigans [renamed]

2456

Posts

  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Incidentally, when she was younger her rage was directed at her my wife, but as my wife has become more ill, the rage has instead become directed at me.

    It might be relevant, or not. But it's a thing my wife has pointed out to me several times recently.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Sometimes rage is directed at the safest thing to direct it at.

    You are probably the surest and most stable thing in her life.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Zilla360GnizmoEncGonmunKristmas KthulhuRainfallDisruptedCapitalistSkeithCalica815165dispatch.oBobblenaengwenCreaganCommander ZoomJihadJesusVarinnNobeard
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Sometimes rage is directed at the safest thing to direct it at.

    You are probably the surest and most stable thing in her life.

    There is an old saying that kids save their worst behaviors for mom that is based on this very concept. I would gently prod her about how she feels about the health of your wife and see if there is something there. I don't expect it will fix a ton, but it will probably help her feel better at least.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    I have nothing I could possibly add to the discussion, but I just want to make sure you're aware of how public a forum this place is, Kneel. Google search and these forums are best buds. I bring this up because this thread has a fair amount of detailed very personal information, information that not all parties involved may want shared, and the sharing of which could easily destroy what is already a fragile relationship.

    I also want to congratulate you Kneel for being a god damn hero of a father, husband, and human being with the patience of a god. Humanity has yet to come up with an award fitting of your deeds, but it really needs to get on that because you fucking deserve it.

    Zilla360Gonmunminirhyderspool32DisruptedCapitalistKristmas KthulhuRMS OceanicCalicadispatch.oCreaganGiggles_FunsworthCommander ZoomJihadJesusNobeard
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    I appreciate the concern, Veevee. Pretty much all this information has already been shared with the likes of social services, school, family and the police regardless, and we have to keep very tight control over what our eldest does online - she is only allowed to use the internet on the family laptop, in full view of myself and/or her mother.

    A few years ago she had a PC in her room and when she complained about her browser playing up, I investigated and found that she had been watching/trying to download a shocking amount of pornography, as well as all the search terms she'd used to go about it. She was 12 at the time and it was pretty mind-blowing. Since then she has repeatedly tried to pinch our tablets or phones to do the same thing so we have to keep really close tabs on what she's up to, especially when considering her mental age.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    We had an almost-issue last night that I think we handled well.

    Our middle-daughter attends an infants-level dance class from 4pm til 5pm, and the eldest attends a slightly more advanced class from 5pm til 6pm. I had taken our 'middler' to her class and the time was coming to take the eldest to hers and pick her sister up. The eldest repeatedly complained about her neck being sore, and we told her that she didn't have to go to dance if she was in pain. She gave no response, and when I explained to her that I had to leave regardless of her coming with me, due to having to pick her sister up, she lay down in bed and ignored me.

    I left, figuring that I'd given her every chance to come with me, and locked the door behind me. This is because, a few weeks ago, she tried to do something similar and after I'd left she told her mum she'd catch me up on her own. Instead of doing so, she wandered around the local streets in the dark for half an hour. We did not want a repeat of this behaviour and we figured locking the door was the simplest and most effective way of achieving that.

    When me and the middler got home the eldest was in full-on rage mode and verbally abusing her mother. Thankfully we deflected most of the rage and distracted her by talking about the dance club christmas party at the weekend, which appeared to calm her down. However after the dust had settled her mother came to talk to me in the kitchen away from the kids and broke down in tears. She's having a really rough time of it, though I suspect it's due in part to having some serious stomach problems the last few days which has impacted the effectiveness of her medication.

    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Hang in there @Kneel.

    I am about 3 years ahead of you with the problem teenager, one who did most of the things you've mentioned, and my wife has FM. In our case, the kiddo has gotten a lot better with psychiatric care and a year of medication and, most of all, age.

    Please feel free to reach out to me anytime, about the FM challenges or the parenting ones.

    spool32 on
    KneelLiquid HellzCalicaEchoLostNinjaPanda4YouZilla360Giggles_FunsworthNobeard
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Sounds like you are continuing to do a fantastic job. Just remember it can get better. I watched my kiddo transform tremendously over the last year due to therapy and medication. Nothing I can say to get through the rough patches but reach out to other parents and build a good support network while you plug away. Feel free to include me if you like as well.

  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    The social worker who's been supporting us on-and-off for the last six months came over yesterday, documented the latest incidents and behaviours, and is going to look into supervised after-school activities independent of myself and her mother (so that the eldest can feel more independent in turn while still safeguarded) and the possibility of monthly respite for a weekend.

    We'll have to see what the results of these enquiries are but it's an encouraging direction while we wait on diagnoses.

    EDIT: talking to the social worker reminded us of some of her other odd behaviours:

    We keep her stocked up on underwear, bras etc. She refuses to wear them to school, leaving the house in a jacket to make it less obvious, tells the school she has none so that they'll give her spares. Turns out school have given her something like twenty items of undergarment in the past year.

    Same with trainers (sneakers) for PE; refuses to take her own, asks for spares from school. I had to send her back to school with a bag containing five or six pairs of donated footwear last week.

    Perhaps worst on this line of behaviour is sanitary towels. I trust I don't need to go into detail there but the pattern remains.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Sounds like a lot of control issues going on there. At least that's what my first instinct would be. The best solution there typically involves empowering her to feel more in control which it sounds like the social worker is trying for as well. You can try simple things around the house probably, but I am uncertain what would be the best place to start with her given everything else. Especially since you seem giving her a fair amount of control in certain aspects. I guess best I can offer is reassurances that the behavior should go away after the core issue begins to resolve without a lot of additional intervention.

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    Does the school have lockers? Can you stock those items with the school nurse or something?

    815165
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    So I guess an update is in order, if not a further request for help:

    In January things got so bad that my wife and I were exploring Section 20 with our daughter's social worker. This involves finding a potential foster home for her, at least in the short term. Our daughter was pushing for this result because she has a friend at school who lives in a care home, and believes that she can live a life of luxury if she to is moved into care. Our efforts to convince her otherwise so far have failed.

    Social Services have since said that Section 20 is not necessary at this point, despite the repeated issues at home and the stress it is causing to our other children (our younger two daughters have both approached teachers in school, upset at their sister's behaviour).

    At a recent educational plan meeting we were referred onto a new group called 'Stronger Families', a group that deals with kids on the fringe of the care system and (hopefully) provides hands-on support to both families of problem children and to the children themselves, and the potential for periodic respite care.

    Fingers crossed.

    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx 100% BEEF MEAT Registered User regular
    @Kneel

    Im actually a bit sad theyre doing the "not necessary right now" dance with you. Im familiar with it, having a potentially abusive grandfather on my kids biological fathers side (he has a record, a bad one). We have CPS (Child Protective Services) here at our house and told them what happened and one of the ladies dozed off in the middle of the meeting.

    I feel that until you really raise a stink with these people they just handwave things.

    From everything Ive read, I find it near lunacy that the best you have is a support group.

    Make. Time.
    LovelybowenNightDragonKristmas KthulhuPanda4YouMr Ray
  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    @Kneel

    Im actually a bit sad theyre doing the "not necessary right now" dance with you. Im familiar with it, having a potentially abusive grandfather on my kids biological fathers side (he has a record, a bad one). We have CPS (Child Protective Services) here at our house and told them what happened and one of the ladies dozed off in the middle of the meeting.

    I feel that until you really raise a stink with these people they just handwave things.

    From everything Ive read, I find it near lunacy that the best you have is a support group.

    along these lines if you really want a result you need to fight for it because sadly if you acquiesce on any of their decisions to wait that means they have less to deal with. You need to be a loud squeeky wheel to get anything.

    camo_sig.png
    Panda4You
  • GonmunGonmun He keeps kickin' me in the dickRegistered User regular
    I know that while community services are always stretched I think, given your circumstances, I would wonder if perhaps contacting some sort of local media outlet could net you some positive movement. I know recently here a story was run by a local news program (in Canada) about a family dealing with a similar situation and they only seemed to get some traction once there was a public outcry with how the matter was being treated by health and community services officials.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * swole patrol flying roundhouse kick top performer recognition: April 2014 * ~
    If you have a sec, check out my podcast: War and Beast Twitter Facebook
  • HawkstoneHawkstone The state of intoxicationRegistered User regular
    Gosh Kneel I don't know what to say other than hang in there and hope that continuing to bump this thread to the top will draw some attention from someone who has been there. From a U.S. perspective it so hard to give you advice because our healthcare system, as busted as it is doesn't work the same way. I would just be taking the child to successive doctors until someone listened.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    A monthly update: We've had few issues in the past few weeks which, quite frankly, is shocking.
    And we've just had another group (Multi-systemic Therapy) setting up to help us handle our eldest's behaviour.

    Meanwhile my wife had to face a Tribunal panel in regards to her health problems, and their decision was to not only reinstate her mobility benefits, but to increase her living benefit from standard to enhanced. All in all, this is an improvement for our family. I'm more focused on the MST, however, and how this effects our handling of the eldest.

    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
    Inquisitor77OrphaneCambiatatynicGnizmoDevoutlyApatheticZilla360spool32LostNinjaShadowfireKristmas KthulhuAl_watGonmunBouwsTLailNightDragondjmitchellachrishallett83CalicaIlpalaWiseManTobesMegaMekPanda4YouElbasunuToxRhesus PositiveSmrtnikCreaganSkeithmysticjuicerdispatch.oGnome-InterruptusTheDrifterNobeard
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Fours months on.

    Hello.

    Multi-systemic therapy continues to be a help, but for every tactic they suggest and cognition they make us aware of, things slip a bit farther away. The last three days are a fair example.

    Monday: The eldest, at school, refuses to put her coat on while out in the rain. She dances around the school yard, ignoring demands from teachers, takes her shoes and socks off and ultimately absconds from the school. Our therapist (who was meeting with myself and my wife at the time this occurred) headed to the school to try to talk her down from her behaviour. The eldest runs away from school, accidentally cutting her foot on glass and checking into a walk-in center (a sort of minor health clinic where you get your cuts and grazes treated). The police and the therapist brought her home, we but on a happy face, tried not to aggravate her and all was well.

    Tuesday: we were asked to attend school to discuss her behaviour. During the meeting we were told that she was to be sent back home, therefore excluded from rock-climbing activities that day, and that she would miss out on a trip to Blackpool the following week. In the afternoon she became agitated, and her mum suggested that she go outside and try to calm down away from other people.
    Instead she fled the street at 4:30pm and we got in touch with the police. I spent several hours walking the local area to find her. However, we discovered that she had ran almost five miles to the town near her school. She was ultimately found by police at 11pm because she was taken in by an elderly woman who was concerned for her. After she was returned home, we once again put on happy, false faces, made jokes and tried to make her feel at ease.

    Today she returned home from school and almost immediately went apeshit, picking on her younger siblings and fully in the knowledge that we'd have to intervene to protect them. During the process I had a book thrown at me (that I wasn't quick enough to dodge) that caught me rather painfully in the neck. I called our therapist for advice, and afterwards agreed with my wife that I'd take the three younger kids for a walk to

    a) remove them from the threat, and
    b) give the eldest fewer sources of stimulus to aggravate her.

    We returned home around 40 minutes later, after my wife messaged me to tell me that the situation had calmed down. Yet again, we grinned and smiled and whatnot until she went to bed, at which point we breathed a collective sigh of relief and tried in vain to relax.

    There have been two good things to come of this. Firstly, the therapist has seen the eldest's behaviour first-hand, and seems to be tailoring her approaches appropriately (the eldest, when reaching a state of anger/upset/anxiety/whatever the fuck it is doesn't respond to diplomacy, gets worse when crowded in on, effectively needs all stimulus removed in order to calm down). Secondly, two seperate members of the local police force are sending on emails to the child mental health service. We recently re-referred her there (after she was discharged some years ago), and were almost immediately dismissed. Our GP even rang us out of concern, apologising profusely as she knows how profound the effects of the eldest's behaviours are on the rest of the family).

    So . Ups and downs.

    I'm a nervous wreck.

    Wife still ill.

    Daughter still mental.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    wow sounds like she needs major help that you just cannot provide

    :bro:

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    CambiataXaquindispatch.oNightDragonDevoutlyApatheticNobodyCauldCreaganGiggles_FunsworthElvenshaeAngelinaSo It GoesJaysonFourSkeithRhesus PositivetynicAl_watLovelySorceGonmunBurnagePowerpuppiesmysticjuicer38thDoeKetarThe Enderchrishallett83Commander ZoomHakkekageTeeManGreenKristmas KthulhuRMS OceanicSCREECH OF THE FARGCalicalonelyahavaMegaMekJihadJesusZilla360balerbowervalhalla130Nobeard
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    What's the ultimate goal in this situation?

    Eventually kids stop being kids and develop the strength and size to legitimately hurt someone. Do you guys have any plan on who to contact when/if that happens?

    I understand you're protecting her by just smiling and taking it at home, but some schoolmates parents definitely won't.

    You need to have a list of people to contact in the event something happens and probably make sure the school has that info as well.

    dispatch.o on
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    What's the ultimate goal in this situation?

    Eventually kids stop being kids and develop the strength and size to legitimately hurt someone. Do you guys have any plan on who to contact when/if that happens?

    I understand you're protecting her by just smiling and taking it at home, but some schoolmates parents definitely won't.

    You need to have a list of people to contact in the event something happens and probably make sure the school has that info as well.

    The goal was/is for the eldest to develop the ability to recognise when her moods were rising and to employ tactics to alleviate them. Initially the 'homework' was directed more towards myself and my wife with tactics to diffuse behaviour, but int's becoming increasingly clear that it isn't likely to work.

    She needs to employ the methods herself, but I can't see it working anytime soon unless there is a ridiculous amount of enforced repetition.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
    Giggles_Funsworthdispatch.oZilla360
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Just be sure to take care of yourself.

    ArcanisTheImpotentbowenCreaganGiggles_FunsworthNightDragonElvenshaeJaysonFourtynicXaquinGonmunBurnagePowerpuppies38thDoechrishallett83Commander ZoomKristmas KthulhuPure DinRMS OceanicCalicalonelyahavaZilla360balerbowerNobeard
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    uhh ok, a lot of people here are fixating on the daughter but I think you were looking for something else, specifically, in the last paragraph. it sounds like all these people are in total dependence of you, which leaves you in a position to make executive decisions

    tired of taking care of pets? get rid of them. they don't like it? they don't get a vote. if they want a vote, there's a way to get a vote, which is helping you

    that's only one thing but it's a basic model for how to deal with the stresses that are mounting on you

    what follows is even more controversial

    Turning your teenager over to social services or public health services and letting them deal with it (by slapping her with a diagnosis and a prescription that will follow her for the rest of her life), I think, is a great way to ensure she spends the rest of her life as a ward of the state. What it sounds like to me is that she's craving a more attention from her parents, and acting out to try and get it. Probably because less serious instances of bad behavior failed to get your attention either, and the only thing she knows how to do as a shitbrained 14 year old is keep ratcheting up the drama. And every time you "hold your temper" and try to be the bigger person, it's wrecking her.

    The things she is doing are extreme, but nothing in part or as a whole sounds to me like someone who is necessarily properly mentally ill. I think people are drawing a link between her early developmental issues and her present behavior that might exist but doesn't have to.

    Have you tried: actually getting your daughter in an isolated situation and having meaningful conversations with her? Doing your own psych evaluation? Show her that you're someone other than the person who brings home the food and the money? Based on your apparent bewilderment of her behavior is sounds like the answer might either be "no" or "not nearly enough". You're the best person to solve this problem. You should try before you punt. Furthermore, without more details, it sounds to me a littile bit that on the parenting front, your wife might be null and void, which means you have to be the mom and the dad, in terms of your daughters needs. If you're not doing that, you should probably start, whatever the cost.

    That's just an idea. I'm not psychologist, but not many here are, either.

    This is spot on. IANAT (but my dad and younger sister are now) but your daughter sounds really similar to how I was at her age. TL;DW: my mom was really checked out when I was very young for almost an identical string of diagnoses as your wife plus some ignored issues surrounding child molestation coming to a head when I was about five. Roughly the same time they also had my brother, and my dad got a DUI with my sister in the backseat of the car and had to go to rehab. It was a really fucking unstable environment and I got pretty fucked up. Started acting out severely for attention and doing some really horrific stuff later. Only thing that "fixed" me really was getting me out of that environment (they sent me to a boarding school for troubled boys) for a little while, and I gradually got more and more able to cope with my rage as I had more agency and responsibility for myself.

    Again, IANAT, but this is almost point for point how I was, save the learning disability.

  • CreaganCreagan Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    uhh ok, a lot of people here are fixating on the daughter but I think you were looking for something else, specifically, in the last paragraph. it sounds like all these people are in total dependence of you, which leaves you in a position to make executive decisions

    tired of taking care of pets? get rid of them. they don't like it? they don't get a vote. if they want a vote, there's a way to get a vote, which is helping you

    that's only one thing but it's a basic model for how to deal with the stresses that are mounting on you

    what follows is even more controversial

    Turning your teenager over to social services or public health services and letting them deal with it (by slapping her with a diagnosis and a prescription that will follow her for the rest of her life), I think, is a great way to ensure she spends the rest of her life as a ward of the state. What it sounds like to me is that she's craving a more attention from her parents, and acting out to try and get it. Probably because less serious instances of bad behavior failed to get your attention either, and the only thing she knows how to do as a shitbrained 14 year old is keep ratcheting up the drama. And every time you "hold your temper" and try to be the bigger person, it's wrecking her.

    The things she is doing are extreme, but nothing in part or as a whole sounds to me like someone who is necessarily properly mentally ill. I think people are drawing a link between her early developmental issues and her present behavior that might exist but doesn't have to.

    Have you tried: actually getting your daughter in an isolated situation and having meaningful conversations with her? Doing your own psych evaluation? Show her that you're someone other than the person who brings home the food and the money? Based on your apparent bewilderment of her behavior is sounds like the answer might either be "no" or "not nearly enough". You're the best person to solve this problem. You should try before you punt. Furthermore, without more details, it sounds to me a littile bit that on the parenting front, your wife might be null and void, which means you have to be the mom and the dad, in terms of your daughters needs. If you're not doing that, you should probably start, whatever the cost.

    That's just an idea. I'm not psychologist, but not many here are, either.

    This is spot on. IANAT (but my dad and younger sister are now) but your daughter sounds really similar to how I was at her age. TL;DW: my mom was really checked out when I was very young for almost an identical string of diagnoses as your wife plus some ignored issues surrounding child molestation coming to a head when I was about five. Roughly the same time they also had my brother, and my dad got a DUI with my sister in the backseat of the car and had to go to rehab. It was a really fucking unstable environment and I got pretty fucked up. Started acting out severely for attention and doing some really horrific stuff later. Only thing that "fixed" me really was getting me out of that environment (they sent me to a boarding school for troubled boys) for a little while, and I gradually got more and more able to cope with my rage as I had more agency and responsibility for myself.

    Again, IANAT, but this is almost point for point how I was, save the learning disability.

    You're missing some really important differneces between OP's sotuation and yours.

    First- the daughter has a stable home environment. She has two parents, and while her mother is sick, it sounds like she's still pretty involved, as is the dad. (Who's taken the daughter on outings, works with the school to help his daughter, and is trying to get the daughter help that doesn't involve an involuntary visit to a psych ward.)

    Second- the daughter is receiving help, with a specific and appropriate goal in mind. It isn't working.

    Third- the daughter wanted to be sent away to a facility because she thinks she'll live a life of luxury there.

    This is why people keep saying there's probably something going on with the daughter. The things that would explain or 'justify' the kid's behavior aren't there. Poor behavior and delusional thinking aren't always signs of a bad home life. Sometimes, kids brains just don't work the way they should. It's sad, but that happens. And when it does, a diagnosis and propper care are super important.

    Also, speaking as somebody with a learning disability, a diagnosis really only follows you around as long as you keep your paperwork updated & others informed. The government and potential employers don't want to deal with the extra laws involved in disability rights and stuff. If you don't bother informing your college you've got a label, it dies there. If you've got an invisible disability & don't inform your employer, they won't know unless you disclose.

    Cambiatadispatch.oNightDragontynicGiggles_FunsworthbowenLovelyPowerpuppieschrishallett83SCREECH OF THE FARGCalicaKneelElldren
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Creagan wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    uhh ok, a lot of people here are fixating on the daughter but I think you were looking for something else, specifically, in the last paragraph. it sounds like all these people are in total dependence of you, which leaves you in a position to make executive decisions

    tired of taking care of pets? get rid of them. they don't like it? they don't get a vote. if they want a vote, there's a way to get a vote, which is helping you

    that's only one thing but it's a basic model for how to deal with the stresses that are mounting on you

    what follows is even more controversial

    Turning your teenager over to social services or public health services and letting them deal with it (by slapping her with a diagnosis and a prescription that will follow her for the rest of her life), I think, is a great way to ensure she spends the rest of her life as a ward of the state. What it sounds like to me is that she's craving a more attention from her parents, and acting out to try and get it. Probably because less serious instances of bad behavior failed to get your attention either, and the only thing she knows how to do as a shitbrained 14 year old is keep ratcheting up the drama. And every time you "hold your temper" and try to be the bigger person, it's wrecking her.

    The things she is doing are extreme, but nothing in part or as a whole sounds to me like someone who is necessarily properly mentally ill. I think people are drawing a link between her early developmental issues and her present behavior that might exist but doesn't have to.

    Have you tried: actually getting your daughter in an isolated situation and having meaningful conversations with her? Doing your own psych evaluation? Show her that you're someone other than the person who brings home the food and the money? Based on your apparent bewilderment of her behavior is sounds like the answer might either be "no" or "not nearly enough". You're the best person to solve this problem. You should try before you punt. Furthermore, without more details, it sounds to me a littile bit that on the parenting front, your wife might be null and void, which means you have to be the mom and the dad, in terms of your daughters needs. If you're not doing that, you should probably start, whatever the cost.

    That's just an idea. I'm not psychologist, but not many here are, either.

    This is spot on. IANAT (but my dad and younger sister are now) but your daughter sounds really similar to how I was at her age. TL;DW: my mom was really checked out when I was very young for almost an identical string of diagnoses as your wife plus some ignored issues surrounding child molestation coming to a head when I was about five. Roughly the same time they also had my brother, and my dad got a DUI with my sister in the backseat of the car and had to go to rehab. It was a really fucking unstable environment and I got pretty fucked up. Started acting out severely for attention and doing some really horrific stuff later. Only thing that "fixed" me really was getting me out of that environment (they sent me to a boarding school for troubled boys) for a little while, and I gradually got more and more able to cope with my rage as I had more agency and responsibility for myself.

    Again, IANAT, but this is almost point for point how I was, save the learning disability.

    You're missing some really important differneces between OP's sotuation and yours.

    First- the daughter has a stable home environment. She has two parents, and while her mother is sick, it sounds like she's still pretty involved, as is the dad. (Who's taken the daughter on outings, works with the school to help his daughter, and is trying to get the daughter help that doesn't involve an involuntary visit to a psych ward.)

    Second- the daughter is receiving help, with a specific and appropriate goal in mind. It isn't working.

    Third- the daughter wanted to be sent away to a facility because she thinks she'll live a life of luxury there.

    This is why people keep saying there's probably something going on with the daughter. The things that would explain or 'justify' the kid's behavior aren't there. Poor behavior and delusional thinking aren't always signs of a bad home life. Sometimes, kids brains just don't work the way they should. It's sad, but that happens. And when it does, a diagnosis and propper care are super important.

    Also, speaking as somebody with a learning disability, a diagnosis really only follows you around as long as you keep your paperwork updated & others informed. The government and potential employers don't want to deal with the extra laws involved in disability rights and stuff. If you don't bother informing your college you've got a label, it dies there. If you've got an invisible disability & don't inform your employer, they won't know unless you disclose.

    There are differences but what stuck out to me is that the foster situation when she was young is right around the time that would cause Reactive Attachment Disorder, which is what people eventually settled on for me, even though my period of instability was kind of late for it.

    Things had gotten a lot better for me by the time I was his daughter's age too. It was after I got back from the boarding school and was "cured", but that just meant I was barely able to restrain myself from being physically violent, most of the time. The only thing that actually made things better for me was gradually becoming an adult and not feeling like everything about my life was in the hands of idiots that didn't even ask me what I wanted.

    I wasn't really even trying to draw direct comparisons so much as say that even if you're providing her with everything she needs it might just mostly amount to being a phase. I just kind of spontaneously grew into doing really well for myself. Solid career making far more than either of my siblings, partner I've been cohabitating with for more than seven years, I'm doing pretty damn good at being an adult; but when I was your daughter's age @Kneel other family members were telling my parents I'd always be a fuckup and that they needed to distance themselves from me.

    I'm just saying hang in there. It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah OP is being the best anyone could ever possibly ask for.

    I just hope for his sake and her sake, and everyone in that situation's sake, that the daughter gets the help she needs before she hurts herself or others.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    Giggles_FunsworthGonmunAngelinaBouwsTCambiataNightDragondispatch.oCreaganInquisitor77Kristmas KthulhuSCREECH OF THE FARGCalicaSkeithlonelyahavaGnome-InterruptusNobeard
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    I'm definitely not a therapist, but I don't get how pretending her episodes aren't a big deal is going to help anyone in the long run. It seems like it simply reinforces that there's no lasting consequences for her behavior, which strikes me as the exact opposite of what the goal should be because adults in the general population certainly aren't going to be nearly as understanding or forgiving. It also forces you and the rest of the household to repress your actual feelings, which isn't healthy.

    PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948
    Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
  • BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm definitely not a therapist, but I don't get how pretending her episodes aren't a big deal is going to help anyone in the long run. It seems like it simply reinforces that there's no lasting consequences for her behavior, which strikes me as the exact opposite of what the goal should be because adults in the general population certainly aren't going to be nearly as understanding or forgiving. It also forces you and the rest of the household to repress your actual feelings, which isn't healthy.

    There has clearly been a ramp up to her behavior, and OP has not been placating. The current treatment plan is through the therapist, and any punishment or escalation on the part of the family puts them potentially in harms way.

    They are keeping a calm demeanor around her not to reinforce bad behavior, but to de-escalate high tension and potentially dangerous situations.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
    Giggles_FunsworthMagic PinktynicKristmas KthulhuLovelyCalicaBurnage
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    BouwsT wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm definitely not a therapist, but I don't get how pretending her episodes aren't a big deal is going to help anyone in the long run. It seems like it simply reinforces that there's no lasting consequences for her behavior, which strikes me as the exact opposite of what the goal should be because adults in the general population certainly aren't going to be nearly as understanding or forgiving. It also forces you and the rest of the household to repress your actual feelings, which isn't healthy.

    There has clearly been a ramp up to her behavior, and OP has not been placating. The current treatment plan is through the therapist, and any punishment or escalation on the part of the family puts them potentially in harms way.

    They are keeping a calm demeanor around her not to reinforce bad behavior, but to de-escalate high tension and potentially dangerous situations.

    Well, I sincerely hope it helps. And I'll step out of this conversation.

    PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948
    Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
  • LucyLuckyLucyLucky Registered User regular
    As heartbreaking as it may sound, I would try to move the pets on to friends or family, or a shelter. You must put you and your family first.

    Magic PinkPanda4YouSCREECH OF THE FARG
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    I think the thread should probably be,

    "I love my daughter, but..."

    Nothing you've posted indicates anything else. Being frustrated, exhausted, agitated, angry, stressed, scared and unsure of what to do and still trying is a phenomenal amount of selfless caring.

    Personally I think you should be up for an award of some kind.

    GonmunbowenJaysonFourPowerpuppiesLucyLuckyElvenshaeCambiatachrishallett83Giggles_FunsworthAl_watKristmas KthulhuLovelyRMS OceanicSCREECH OF THE FARGSpoitCalicaSkeithZombie Gandhilonelyahavaurahonkyvalhalla130Nobeard
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Thanks for your input, guys. It's becoming more of a 'vent' thread since we're already engaging every authority available to get a handle on things. The difference lately is that school, therapists and police are finally, finally seeing this behaviour themselves, and instead of focusing on how we (as parents) handle and react to her, they're beginning to look into the reasons that she is unable to bring herself back down from an agitated state.

    On Wednesday she had a rage attack which included threatening everyone in the house and throwing heavy objects at me (I got caught in the neck with a book, wasn't quick enough I guess). I took the three younger kids out for a walk and locked the door behind me - the therapist thought it might help to reduce stimuli allow her to calm down more quickly - and after an hour my wife called to say that she'd come back down from the rage.

    Last night (Thursday) she was well behaved and asked for her phone back before she went to her dance club (therapy has been pushing to give her a little more independence, and we thought it'd make her easier to track down should she abscond again, as she had done Mon/Tue).

    Both on the way to/from dance she made a total of eight 999 calls without speaking on any of them. A police officer stopped by after the first call, to check all was OK. We explained the situation, apologised and assured him that her phone would be confiscated again. Just before she returned, the officer came to our address again with a colleague and said there'd been a further seven calls. As they left the street, they saw her, she saw them and ran. The chased her down and returned her home, at which point she began trashing the downstairs of the house, lashing out at me and her mum, and threatening to hurt her younger siblings and burn the house down - the police had to repeatedly restrain her during this period.

    In light of the latter threats and despite us saying that we could handle her at home, the police felt it necessary to take her into custody until she'd calmed down. After about 60-90 minutes of her leaving, I was asked to attend the custody suite so that I could be present while her rights were read and she signed forms. She became more agitated upon seeing me, but I kept the tone light, tried to laugh and joke with her (despite feeling the absolute opposite) and she eventually calmed back down. We left the station shortly afterwards, got a taxi home and she was calm and pleasant for the rest of the short night (it was around 10pm by the time we got home, everything hit the fan at around 7pm).

    The desk sergeant at the custody suite remarked, after she calmed down, 'you're a completely different person now, aren't you?'

    Jekyll and Hyde, man. We've been saying it for years, it's just that only now are others seeing it.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
    CambiataCreaganNightDragonJaysonFourElvenshaeKristmas KthulhuGoldenSeducerCalicaSkeithZilla360Nobeard
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm definitely not a therapist, but I don't get how pretending her episodes aren't a big deal is going to help anyone in the long run. It seems like it simply reinforces that there's no lasting consequences for her behavior, which strikes me as the exact opposite of what the goal should be because adults in the general population certainly aren't going to be nearly as understanding or forgiving. It also forces you and the rest of the household to repress your actual feelings, which isn't healthy.

    We spent years countering her behaviour with punishments and repurcussions, but they only agitate her further. Tell her you're taking her TV or consoles away, and she'll swear at you and throw them out of her room before you can get upstairs. Warn that if she continues, she'll be stopped from going to a particular event/trip, she rages harder while simultaneously playing the victim. When in that agitated mental state, she is impossible to reason with and will deliberately place herself in harms way to remain the focus of the episode.

    After years of doing this, and after input from at least five family services, the only thing that is only just beginning to work is redirecting attention in a light-hearted manner with chat, distraction and small concessions (would you like a cup of tea? etc) before she reaches that angry state. Once she's there, all we can do is remove as much stimulus as possible and let her burn out. The fewer things/people around her, the faster it happens but it's difficult to do so without almost entirely vacating the house.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
    Giggles_Funsworth
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Do you have issues with any medication she should be taking? Does she skip days or anything? I've known people, especially teens to feel well enough on meds they decide they don't need them. Then they do something kind of stupid and end out in a hospital. Get meds, feel better, repeat.

  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Because her diagnosis has been so broad so far (despite multiple references the child mental health services), she is not medicated in any way, shape or form.

    This is another aspect of our frustration as we were hoping we might be able to do something to stabilise her moods.

    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • OrphaneOrphane A black light In the deep blue seaRegistered User regular
    Damn, dude. I sincerely hope there comes a time when your daughter is able to recognize what you've done here and be grateful for it.

    dispatch.oCambiataKneelchrishallett83Giggles_FunsworthtynicbowenMagic PinkPowerpuppiesNaphtaliCreaganNightDragondavidsdurionsJaysonFourInquisitor77ElvenshaeKristmas KthulhuGoldenSeducerXaquinSorceLovelyBolthornSCREECH OF THE FARGSpoitRhesus PositiveCalicaSkeithSmrtnikNijalonelyahavaGnome-InterruptusceresTheDrifterMegaMekJihadJesusZilla360balerbowerBurnageBobbleurahonkyvalhalla130Nobeard
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Thanks @Orphane . I just realised it's four incidents in as many days, and three of them needed police intervention.

    From a neighbourhood/social standpoint, on top of everything else, I'm getting a bit tired of being the household where there's a police car outside every other day and the neighbours are stood at their front doors, gawking at the spectacle.

    I'm just glad we've got family on the street who understand the situation.

    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Yeah I'm not sure it's been said enough in this thread (or if it's ever possible to say it as much as you deserve), but you and your wife are superheros among parents. The amount of patience, courage, and hard work you've put in to just finding a livable situation with your daughter is awe-inspiring.

    dispatch.oBlameless ClericAngelinachrishallett83Giggles_FunsworthGonmunOrphaneBliss 101bowenHakkekageMagic PinkdjmitchellaPowerpuppiesBouwsTNaphtaliCreaganNightDragonTeeMandavidsdurionsInquisitor77ElvenshaeKristmas KthulhuGoldenSeducerPure DinXaquinLovelySpoitCalicaThor1590SkeithNijaZombie GandhilonelyahavaGnome-InterruptusTheDrifterZilla360balerbowerBobblevalhalla130Nobeard
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Kneel wrote: »
    Because her diagnosis has been so broad so far (despite multiple references the child mental health services), she is not medicated in any way, shape or form.

    This is another aspect of our frustration as we were hoping we might be able to do something to stabilise her moods.

    Welp, after 999, I'm pretty confident it's not a misdiagnosis so much as a lazy diagnosis. I've known a few people here and in my personal life that have had really shitty experiences with Ireland/UK's universal health systems.

    You're doing a good job Kneel. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, and don't let the mental health physicians try to let it come back down on you that you're doing something wrong.

    I'm surprised you can't get a second opinion from an expert on this, jesus christ. Kind of sounds like intermittent explosive disorder. You're reducing of stimuli would work if she was being treated with medication properly.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    KneelJebusUDCreaganNightDragonAngelinadavidsdurionsSiskaGiggles_FunsworthGoldenSeducerZilla360
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    bowen wrote: »
    Kind of sounds like intermittent explosive disorder. You're reducing of stimuli would work if she was being treated with medication properly.

    Bloody hell, reading through the wiki entry for IED is a hauntingly accurate description, though her episodes are exceedingly frequent. I wonder if the frequency is impacted by her learning difficulties?

    I'm going to bring this up at Monday's meeting. She fits all the criteria and as it's a mental disorder it'll have to go through CAMHS again so having input from the police and school would be a huge help.

    Kneel on
    Want to see more of Kneel's slapdash slatherings?
    Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
    3EnCIQg.jpg
    tynicbowenIrukaCambiataCreaganAngelinaGiggles_FunsworthKristmas KthulhuGoldenSeducerSorceCalicaSkeithGnome-InterruptusZilla360
Sign In or Register to comment.