Kneel's family shenanigans [renamed]

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  • GonmunGonmun He keeps kickin' me in the dickRegistered User regular
    At this point is there perhaps a media angle that could be taken? A local news agency of some sort that offers some sort of "on your side" investigating?

    There was a family over here in Nova Scotia that had a similar situation occur and it took a news story for things to finally be reviewed by the proper government agencies to get the help for the child and parents that were involved.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    I'm really struggling with an answer that doesn't involve arrest and charges being filed. She keeps basically getting away with criminal assault without consequence.

    Call a hospital emergency room, ask if they have a social worker on duty because your daughter is being violent and is a danger to the household and herself and find out what immediate action you can take to have her removed.

    I understand she has mental illness or a personality disorder of some kind. Ultimately that still doesn't mean it's ok to threaten people with improvised weapons, call the police repeatedly and attack someone. She needs to face some consequences at some point and she's rapidly moving from a mental health facility kind of thing to a prison kind of thing.

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  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    I would really throw myself against the bureaucracy before I went to the media. Its pretty clear she likes attention, It might help, but it might also just make school harder, and make your neighbors more nosey. Its also a force of hand that people tend to hate, which can lead to immediate but not thorough results. The media isn't going to report on things just being "okay" 8 months from now, so you only get to push that button once.

    I try to approach these things as having empathy for the people who are working, but active disdain for the system at hand. Explore every avenue and write to every person who you think could potentially circumvent your issues. Does someone run a shelter for teens that you haven't talked to directly? Is there someone specific in the police force that handles domestic cases? Make it so they hear for you. If something is pending, make sure they hear from you often. Ask them for next steps and alternative steps, and dont let up.

    Being polite, but consistently noisey and tackling your problems from several different avenues might open up some doors you were unaware of.

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Wrong thread sorry.

    SharpyVII on
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    You're right @Iruka and we're pushing, but we feel in a constant state of being ignored.

    Social services have taken it right up to a panel with the question of 'should this child be placed into care?' and they've said 'no'.
    Police attend when absolutely required, then leave when they feel that their presence serves only to antagonise.
    Current social worker is still off work and we've not been assigned an interim one.

    Things at home are calm, for now. I just don't know what sort of support is in place if she decides to kick up a fuss tomorrow.

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  • MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    I've been following this thread and Kneel, you're a god damn hero for putting up with this. I'm sorry I can't do anything to help, but I hope you get the help you need for everyone in your family!

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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Shenanigans updated:

    Social worker called a child protection meeting, bringing forth a bunch of professionals which was, intentionally or otherwise, horribly demeaning as it included my own ASD assessor and the headteacher for my younger three. The case was made that the behaviour of the eldest was down to me and Mrs Kneel not giving her the attention and care that she requires.

    Everyone agreed and set up a child protection plan. My explanations as to my other half's mental health problems, the eldest's behavioural issues and me only having one pair of hands weren't deemed to be sufficient for the eldest's needs.

    I could delve into the specifics of the family insisting on multiple pets, the housework and legwork involved and my own mental health worries, but that only really leads up to the current situation, rather than solve it. I've tried rehoming the pets recently, but the dog rescue services we've engaged in refuse to help and the RSPCA and Cat's Protection won't take the cats. I'm resigning myself.

    So regular meetings, us doubling down on attention on the eldest where we can and triple-safeguarding the phone/knife/social media shite (she got hold of Netflix tech support somehow last week and gave them abuse, which we were emailed a warning about). She came home from a week-long school trip today in good spirits, we sat down with her mum to watch last weeks Doctor Who finale before she went to bed, and I'll be taking her to a 2 day per week summer activity program during August to help keep her occupied.

    Meanwhile I've got an (what I assume is my last) autism appointment coming up on the 17th, and I'm hoping to find out either way whether there's a reason for my head being the way it is. If not, then it's back to the GP to discuss options 'cause I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be feeling the way I do.

    Onwards.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    I'm going to be supportive in the only way I can be.

    Fuck. That. Noise.

    Hiding knives, attacking people and calling the police hundreds of times is not an issue of you and your wife not trying hard enough. It's not fucking normal and you shouldn't be resigning to anything or accepting any of this.

    I don't know what you should do, but you shouldn't feel at fault in even the smallest of ways. Someone will have a good idea.


    dispatch.o on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm at a loss of words myself.

    This is not "you are bad parents who just don't love enough" this is "this human being is mentally ill and services are not being rendered because it'd require someone to do some actual documentation, research, and work to get there and it's easier to just to pass off the blame."

    Unfortunately because you're not in the US I have no idea who to even escalate this too. Media? Politicians in control of the NHS?

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    The media hasn't been tapped yet - given Mrs Kneel's mental health problems (psychotic depression, borderline personality disorder) it's understandable - it'd have to be a broadly agreed-upon thing.

    I couldn't help but note items in the meeting report that were taken by all present as fact, but I challenged during said meeting. It turned out that these were statements from the eldest without further clarification from us. The one that stood out was that she was made to eat her meals seperately from the rest of her family.
    This is the highest level of bullshit, as I have my own ridiculous issues regarding eating upstairs (... as a kid,my parents allowed this and when we came to move house I found a horrifying amount of bugs living under the bed, sustained on the crumbs). As a result, I don't allow food upstairs. I brought this up at the meeting, there were harumphs and huffs but nothing of merit attributed to it or, indeed, to her other claims.

    EDIT to clarify, she either eats with her siblings, eats with me and her mother, or we all eat together.

    We've been given more financial support following the eldest's PIP assessment, which will help with travelling, and we're re-kitting her room out over the summer. The wallpaper that she'd torn down and graffitied will be replaced with paper of her choosing, and I've already replaced the majority of her furniture. We grit our teeth and disregard her prior behaviour and encourage her to engage in more family-centric activities. I'll personally be taking her via bus to her Summer clubs, and we'll plan more family days out.

    I'll be documenting every last motherfucking second of this and relaying it to the relative authorities.

    Kneel on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    Why are they even using anything she says as fact? That is straight up bizarre.

    It's to the point now where I would consider cameras (hide them) to start documenting this behavior. Make copies of anything you record. I don't know kneel, this is a really big garbage fire.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Has been for years now, and it's surreal to have to say it.

    I'm thinking back to her being 12 and threatening to kill me outside the house and thinking, 'that was a laugh, wasn't it?'

    Still, we're up to something like five weeks without issue so far. I figure if we can regularly keep her engaged for the forseeable future, and she still pulls shit, we can show the relative authorities that it ain't us. Especially as we have three other relatively straightforward - if a bit kooky - kids in the house.

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    bowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah keep doing everything they're saying down to the letter, document, record.

    I'm really sorry, :bro:

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    No need to apologise, @bowen

    I'm just ranting. And I have some scotch to comfort me tonight.

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    bowen
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    On an unrelated note, my love for oldschool Warcraft cements your avatar in my mind.

    Noble Footman.

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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Why are they even using anything she says as fact? That is straight up bizarre.

    It's to the point now where I would consider cameras (hide them) to start documenting this behavior. Make copies of anything you record. I don't know kneel, this is a really big garbage fire.

    I won't speak to this situation, but as someone who used to do a similar job it only makes sense to take what the kid says at face value at first. Not trusting the kid can lead to incredibly terrible situations that leave the child potentially in a life threatening situation. Almost no one admits to being a garbage human being who does fucked up things to kids. It puts good parents in uncomfortable positions at times, but never a deadly one beyond their control.

    I say this not as a reflection for this situation, but to explain why it starts this way. Kneel has the perfect idea to make everything work out for him. Go with what they say for as long as you can and document the hell out of it. I hope that it works, or at least they can find a way to help your family very soon.

    Elvenshae
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Why are they even using anything she says as fact? That is straight up bizarre.

    It's to the point now where I would consider cameras (hide them) to start documenting this behavior. Make copies of anything you record. I don't know kneel, this is a really big garbage fire.

    I won't speak to this situation, but as someone who used to do a similar job it only makes sense to take what the kid says at face value at first. Not trusting the kid can lead to incredibly terrible situations that leave the child potentially in a life threatening situation. Almost no one admits to being a garbage human being who does fucked up things to kids. It puts good parents in uncomfortable positions at times, but never a deadly one beyond their control.

    I say this not as a reflection for this situation, but to explain why it starts this way. Kneel has the perfect idea to make everything work out for him. Go with what they say for as long as you can and document the hell out of it. I hope that it works, or at least they can find a way to help your family very soon.

    Yeah I can see that, but you'd assume they'd weigh that with, you know, that time she threatened the god damned cops with a weapon.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    bowen wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Why are they even using anything she says as fact? That is straight up bizarre.

    It's to the point now where I would consider cameras (hide them) to start documenting this behavior. Make copies of anything you record. I don't know kneel, this is a really big garbage fire.

    I won't speak to this situation, but as someone who used to do a similar job it only makes sense to take what the kid says at face value at first. Not trusting the kid can lead to incredibly terrible situations that leave the child potentially in a life threatening situation. Almost no one admits to being a garbage human being who does fucked up things to kids. It puts good parents in uncomfortable positions at times, but never a deadly one beyond their control.

    I say this not as a reflection for this situation, but to explain why it starts this way. Kneel has the perfect idea to make everything work out for him. Go with what they say for as long as you can and document the hell out of it. I hope that it works, or at least they can find a way to help your family very soon.

    Yeah I can see that, but you'd assume they'd weigh that with, you know, that time she threatened the god damned cops with a weapon.

    Why would that make her more likely to be lying? The point is you treat the child as a credible source of information because they are so incredibly vulnerable. I am sorry Kneel is forced into very difficult situations on this. At any point he can change course to do what is needed to protect his family. The reverse just isn't true so you start by putting the burden on the one most able to adapt safely.

    Edit: I really don't feel I can offer anymore on topic here so this is probably where I am dropping it. I am trying to give hope that the next session will go better. The documentation should dramatically change the meeting as well as the willingness to comply with their requests. The finer points of why a child should be trusted I will gladly go through in PMs though.

    Gnizmo on
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Why should a child that has a demonstrated history of lying be trusted though?

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Why should a child that has a demonstrated history of lying be trusted though?

    Because kids lie. Constantly. For no reason. For many, oftentimes stupid and irrational reasons. Especially if they grow up in poor environments.

    ShadowfireMegaMek
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    You can't re-earn a child's willingness to talk to you and you can't undo abuse and loss of trust for not believing them.

    It doesn't change that inside looking out this is bullshit and the patience shown for a mind numbingly broken child protection and social services system by Kneel should be commended. Even if it means unfair things happen now, I can't believe that persistence and compassion will lose out.

    Keep doing the right thing.

    You are doing the right thing.

    dispatch.o on
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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    knitdan wrote: »
    Why should a child that has a demonstrated history of lying be trusted though?

    nope nope nope nope nope

    No more questions like this and no more such tangents in this thread.

    Whether or not you're interested in discussing it, it's not important to this thread right now.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • November FifthNovember Fifth Registered User regular
    Kneel wrote: »
    We've been given more financial support following the eldest's PIP assessment, which will help with travelling, and we're re-kitting her room out over the summer. The wallpaper that she'd torn down and graffitied will be replaced with paper of her choosing, and I've already replaced the majority of her furniture. We grit our teeth and disregard her prior behaviour and encourage her to engage in more family-centric activities. I'll personally be taking her via bus to her Summer clubs, and we'll plan more family days out.

    I'll be documenting every last motherfucking second of this and relaying it to the relative authorities.

    This might be late, but I would recommend not putting up more wallpaper. Instead, paint her room with a washable interior paint.

  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    This might be late, but I would recommend not putting up more wallpaper. Instead, paint her room with a washable interior paint.

    Noted, but we'll see how this goes.

    Got a final diagnosis of not-autistic but definitely WTF-anxiety/depressed/etc. My assessor suggested that I try to the key causes of said stress, but my own attempts have been fruitless (ie rehoming dogs/cats, getting respite for Eldest).

    So I'm being referred to the GP for depression and I guess I'll see how that goes on Thursday - the only GP at my surgery that I trust is only in Thur/Fri.


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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Ugh, just had an argument in which she swore she hadn't stolen her mum's phone. I snuck past her and found it under her matress, igniting a stream of verbal abuse and claiming I was a drunk bastard who needs to be ditched. Because I'd found her mum's phone.

    Great.

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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Clarity: I drink roughly twice per week, in the evenings after the kids have gone up to settle (so 8pm onwards). Today it was, well, today (monday) and will likely happen again come Fri or Sat.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    I recommend you stop drinking until you get things sorted out. The comfortable wind down you get won't be worth the headache that your daughter can bring if she decides to lie. (hint: she will decide to lie). I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong, but you're in a scrutinized position and it isn't worth the possible cost for now.

    Edit: If you have depression it definitely isn't improving things and any medication you may be prescribed will come with warnings about alcohol anyway.

    I suggest ice cream with your wife. Often as you like.

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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    That's... actually a great idea. Ice cream night.

    Nice!

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  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    I recommend you stop drinking until you get things sorted out. The comfortable wind down you get won't be worth the headache that your daughter can bring if she decides to lie. (hint: she will decide to lie). I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong, but you're in a scrutinized position and it isn't worth the possible cost for now.

    Edit: If you have depression it definitely isn't improving things and any medication you may be prescribed will come with warnings about alcohol anyway.

    I suggest ice cream with your wife. Often as you like.

    yea, also until the meds get equilibriated into your system and you know how you respond to them the alcohol can have weird effects that you might not be used to.

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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    Ten days without a drink, seven days into a course of Fluoextine 20mg, and now engaging with cognitive behavioural therapy.

    I'll keep you informed.

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  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    On a related note, anyone have experience with fluoxetine (prozac)? The nausea is my biggest complaint - how long can I expect it to last?

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  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    I had nausea with Lexapro but it went away after a couple weeks and it helped if I took it at night

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  • BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Yea for sure try to take it right before you go to sleep. I take Zoloft so my experience may be a little different. But for SURE make sure you always keep enough meds with you. I went on a month vacation a couple years back and only had enough meds for the first week. I ended up going through withdrawals and it was the worst time of my life.

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  • DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    Kneel wrote: »
    On a related note, anyone have experience with fluoxetine (prozac)? The nausea is my biggest complaint - how long can I expect it to last?

    With most SSRIs the side effects will tend to drop off after a few weeks on a stable dose. If you've just started it, you might be on a low dose that the doctor will increase periodically to find the best dose for you. Unfortunately, for some people the side effects may continue throughout the time they take the medication. If they stick around past a few weeks and they're bad enough to be causing issues, talk with your doctor and they may try to switch you to another SSRI, as people will tolerate them all very differently.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I do, it doesn't get prescribed much in the US anymore because for the most part there are just so many better, gentler options, escitalopram (Lexapro) being among them. For one thing, Prozac is weight-positive (yeah you're going to gain weight and there's almost nothing you can do about it), and while other SSRIs can have that effect as well, it's not NEARLY as bad to the point where if you exercise and have a decent diet you might not even notice.

    In general, the various side effects of Prozac can last up to a week more commonly, two at the outside. If it lasts more than two weeks then it's probably not going away ever and you should see about switching to something else. Prozac has a longer ramp-up/down period than many more modern SSRIs. For me I could grin and bear the nausea, but the zaps were unbearable especially on the way down. It was like being periodically electrocuted.

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    dispatch.o
  • KneelKneel Ten thick coats Registered User regular
    So far I've not experienced any significant weight gain - though with me reducing my drinking (and the subsequent hangover binge-eating) and mostly keeping up with walking, it shouldn't be a problem.

    My only issues have been the nausea, cold-like symptoms and, ah, reduced sensitivity.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Nausea, dry mouth and just a general sensation of being "off" are pretty common. I agree about the zaps, that's one of those side-effects that's just kind of the worst. Give it time, it will take a few weeks for you to adjust.

  • BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    I had that same 'reduced sensitivity' when they had me on Trazodone. That side effect never went away for me. Don't know if it will for you, but would definitely be worth asking your doc. It could be a blessing in disguise depending on you and your spouse's love life though :)

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  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    I do, it doesn't get prescribed much in the US anymore because for the most part there are just so many better, gentler options, escitalopram (Lexapro) being among them. For one thing, Prozac is weight-positive (yeah you're going to gain weight and there's almost nothing you can do about it), and while other SSRIs can have that effect as well, it's not NEARLY as bad to the point where if you exercise and have a decent diet you might not even notice.

    In general, the various side effects of Prozac can last up to a week more commonly, two at the outside. If it lasts more than two weeks then it's probably not going away ever and you should see about switching to something else. Prozac has a longer ramp-up/down period than many more modern SSRIs. For me I could grin and bear the nausea, but the zaps were unbearable especially on the way down. It was like being periodically electrocuted.

    i feel like the weight gain associated with SSRI's is people eat to combat some of the offness/nausea. For me that feeling was similar to low blood sugar so I snacked a lot

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  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    mts wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    I do, it doesn't get prescribed much in the US anymore because for the most part there are just so many better, gentler options, escitalopram (Lexapro) being among them. For one thing, Prozac is weight-positive (yeah you're going to gain weight and there's almost nothing you can do about it), and while other SSRIs can have that effect as well, it's not NEARLY as bad to the point where if you exercise and have a decent diet you might not even notice.

    In general, the various side effects of Prozac can last up to a week more commonly, two at the outside. If it lasts more than two weeks then it's probably not going away ever and you should see about switching to something else. Prozac has a longer ramp-up/down period than many more modern SSRIs. For me I could grin and bear the nausea, but the zaps were unbearable especially on the way down. It was like being periodically electrocuted.

    i feel like the weight gain associated with SSRI's is people eat to combat some of the offness/nausea. For me that feeling was similar to low blood sugar so I snacked a lot

    Not necessarily. Weight gain is the only side effect I experience on citalopram (another of the newer SSRIs that is popular because of reduced/eliminated side effects for many patients), and my eating habits have improved slightly since I started taking it.

    To get back to the advice, definitely don't hesitate to report your side effects fully to your doc and ask about other options if they continue. I didn't even know they were still prescribing fluoxetine, particularly as a first option.

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
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